A Plea For a Revised Focus Within This Forum

[Gerry2008]

Over the next weeks and months we will be under attack by the DNC and the Democratic Party membership to fall in line. We will be urged to heed our leader Hillary's own words and to fear the Republican Party and John McCain.

We must remain strong and not forget what brought us together. We supported Hillary because we believe in her and her policies. We also studied Obama, his policies, and his associations because, in truth, we had to try to understand why he was successful. For most of us we came to realize that Obama was not remotely acceptable as our candidate under ANY circumstances.

Already, several of our members have expressed their intention to vote for Obama and because we are not like the immature name-calling Obama supporters, we must say to them that we respectfully disagree and hope you will reconsider.

I continue to unreservedly support Hillary's nomination but not her call for support of Obama and I believe these are compatible goals.

I plan to compile a set of reasons why I believe that Obama should never become POTUS and be ready to both discuss and post these reasons whenever my judgment is questioned. I will also compile a set of reasons why McCain is more than acceptable to become POTUS beginning with the fact that he is an American hero and has 30 years of demonstrable experience.

I will be counting on my friends here for support. I predict that there will be days ahead that will be hard to get through and I believe if we continue to help each other with knowledge and information we can make it.

So my plea is for unity within our forum. I hope we can allow those who disagree to leave us without resorting to Obama-type tactics - as hard as that will be. We - those of us who will never vote for Obama - are already being called a 'small group of feminist women' which I know is wrong - we're not small and like me, includes plenty of men. Let's prove that we put our country above our party and show the DNC what unity means.

[CGP]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.

[jgilmore]

Hillary did what she had to do today. Now, we have to do what we have to. It is in Hillary's best interest to have Obama lose in November. Then she can come back in 2012. It will be tough to withstand the pressure, but after what was done to Hillary and the rest of us, we cannot just fall in line. We must teach a lesson to the Democratic Party and its money men. Hillary's future is tied to the party. She had to back him. If not, she would truly suffer even more abuse from the party. But we need to hold firm. No Obama for us.

[Valencia]

who just moved from Cali to N. Carolina. And she will vote 4 Mc Cain is our girl is not the party nominee.:D

[OkieforHRC2008]

Thank you Murray and Gerry2008. I feel the same way. Calls for me to fall in line and vote for a candidate that I wouldn't let watch a rock for fear of its safety. Obama is never going to be a choice for me. I've never thought blind following of a party was good. I've been a Republican before, and I can certainly stomach voting for one again.

~~OkieforHRC2008

[Kaylin]

agree with jgilmore. Hillary did what she had to do. personally I don't believe she wants Obama to win and not just so she can run again in 2012. imo she doesn't believe Obama is qualified to be president. actually that's not just imo, Hillary pretty much said this during the campaign, when she said that she had years of experience, John McCain had years of experience, and Barack Obama had a speech he gave in 2002.

[El Cuco]

Agreed! I feel the same way! I can't understand how any of her supporters would now support Obama after all that Hillary has gone through this campaign!

[RAFREE]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com) is open to new members.

Thank god for you Murray. I don't want to have to play nice and put up with Obama people here. I'm sorry I feel this way but, it's not my fault. I don't want bystanders to abuse or those who can condone it here. It's one of our ONLY safe havens!!

I can't fathom personally how anyone can vote for him but, if it's not up for discussion here *as it is everywhere else* then we can be more productive FOR Hillary or McCain.

[MaryKay]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.


I agree. I think most of us plan to vote McCain or third party on here, so maybe we should open a thread, Murray, and brainstorm the direction we want to take with this site. Do we want to set up a Hillary Supporters for McCain section? Just a suggestion if you're open to it.

[UpstateNYRN]

I agree with much of what you say but will add this one point. If I have to begin to read any posts on this site that in any way attempt to advance the idea of supporting Obama, I am history. This site has been a beacon in the darkness and a family of support for those who were demonized on other sites for supporting Hillary. On sites that were less protected I was called “racist”. “ignorant”, a “hick”, etc. for simply asking questions regarding Obama and his positions and personal associations.

I have thanked Murray in the past, and will do so again now for providing this wonderful place to share ideas, hopes, dreams and frustrations. I will respect others right to do whatever they feel compelled to do regarding their vote, although I will never understand. I will not however put myself in the position of having to swallow Obama propaganda, and if this site becomes a center for such activity I will wish all a fond good bye and be on my way.

[santafegal]

I could never vote for BO after everything that has transpired.

[Hillarysmygirl08]

I am glad Murrey that you made them not welcome to express their views here. We are a Pro Hillary always site and yes I still say fight just remember what we need to do. I say we punish the Democrats but we MUST MAKE SURE THAT OBAMA IS THE BIGGEST LOSER IN HISTORY. Let me tell you the Obama people know that if just 10% of Hillary's supporters turn to McCain that is a landslide victory and that is true as we are all loyal democrats and are expected to go to Obama. I wish to send a completely different number I would like the majority of us to go to McCain and I really feel that this is working. We got Joe Lieberman courting us and believe me Obama may piss off enough people back to us. He is such a f**king uniter lol. Dumbo is not going to be able to steal the General Election

[SadStateOfAffairs]

Yes. We have a mountian to climb, but it really is about our country. The party we used to know and love is no more. Murray, I'll say it over and over. Thank you for this forum, for so much insanity is lurking outside of it.

We have all learned here what we would never have learned anywhere else. The truth about the DNC and Barack......

[ZY123]

If you read my thread you see I will not support any party...period. If the forum were to become about supporting a "party" rather than a candidate it would violate my core beliefs.

Glad to see that won't be happening.

Although I object to the word "unity".....any other word...please?

[UpstateNYRN]

Wow, you folks got that up while I was still writing. I feel better! I still have a home. :D

[Artists4Hillary]

Thank you for this post. I don't really want to know if someone is not in agreement. I stand firm in my resolve.

Murray's plan is THE PLAN!

1. Hillary
2. McCain
3. Hillary 2012.

Anyway, voting for BO was never a consideration for me from the get-go.

[Kbentleyis]

You know I'm with you guys! I could never, ever vote BO. Together we make our stand! Draw that line in the sand. We're on this side--united!

[CGP]

If you read my thread you see I will not support any party...period. If the forum were to become about supporting a "party" rather than a candidate it would violate my core beliefs.

Glad to see that won't be happening.

Although I object to the word "unity".....any other word...please?

Agree, I think we can skip the word "unity" - that's already been owned by someone who shall remain nameless! I changed to a "revised focus".

I agree. I have no interest in big party politics. My support of HC was always about HER - not the party she represents.

[hillarymyhero]

Here is my answer to all of those who are visiting this site to convince us for Obama....No , Obama over my dead body....

I am posting this again here.....

[[ heard Hillary's speech and I started crying, yes I got to admit that I cried and was disappointed when Hillary endorsed to Obama. I am sorry, but, I will not even sign in Hillaryclinton.com any more. I will wait for Hillary to comeback in 2012.

I will always be there for Hillary , but, in this campaign I can not support Obama. And I am going to support McCain with full force and full speed till Hillary will be back as President Hillary 2012.
My reasons for supporting McCain are as follows. I do not hate Obama, I am not angry , I just don't think Obama will be a good President based on the following facts. May be some of you agree and some won't.

McCain President 08 and Hillary President 2012.

McCain has number of years' experience in Senate. Obama - almost nothing. People hire even carpenters and plumbers and look for experience. What experience this guy has?

He is war veteran. Shows character and sacrifice. Obama nothing.

Presidency is not entitlement like college where there are fixed seats for minorities.

Obama's association with questionable characters does not show good judgement.

Hopefully McCain will use his head and reasonably soon get us out of Iraq.

The only thing Obama has is lots of energy and great speech making talent. That's not enough.

McCain has everything to offer......just like Hillary.

Plan A Hillary 08
Plan B McCain 08
Plan C Hillary 2012....

4 years will pass, so quickly...And all of us will work hard to unite this forum and this forum will be our base strategy for Hillary 2012.....

We trust in God, we trust in Hillary and we trust in our unity...And I am sure our Hillary will be back....We will wait for her.....

Thank you Murray and everyone...I am so much relieved...I felt extreme sadness today after hearing Hillary's speech..........:mad::(

[Santiago]

Country above party!

[MarkMiller]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.

But this is still the Hillary Clinton Forum...right?

Being against McCain does not make me for Obama. Simple as that.

Look the general election has not begun.....why jump on the other side so fast. Why keep people that have been a huge part of the forum from speaking from their heart as others here are allowed.

I just don't understand why, but will accept it.

[hillarymyhero]

Agree, I think we can skip the word "unity" - that's already been owned by someone who shall remain nameless! I changed to a "revised focus".

I agree. I have no interest in big party politics. My support of HC was always about HER - not the party she represents., yes Murray we will NOT use the word, unity...that reminds me of DNC...and that is my past...I want to forget my past...

And want to move on with reformed focus.....

Or if you guys come up with some better name....

[xfiles]

I totally agree! No Obama supporters here please.

[Gerry2008]

Thank YOU Murray. It will be so much easier and productive to work for our goals without having to put up with Obama-centric posts. As you noted, there are myriad forums where they can go play.

www.hillaryclintonforum.net - An oasis in the Obama desert.

[Patricia GA]

I came here not only because I supported Hillary but because I was so upset that no one in the media was telling the trurth about Obama. And when the press got ugly towards Hillary more and more I was in such a need of a place to share my thoughts and find out if others were finding the same things out that I was finding...that this forum was a miracle for me that I needed.

When I arrived here (a few months ago) I knew I could never vote for Obama. I had found out enough that red flags were going off where ever I had looked on the internet. And that has not changed...infact I have even stronger resolve not to vote for him. And I was not too happy with the DNC and now I am livid with the DNC.

If someone wants to vote for Obama that is their business and I will not condemn them for their decision. I have not walked a mile in their shoes no more than they have walked in mine. I wish them the best. So we will see now how it all goes. I will be watching the candidates, the candidates that are not of the two parties too. I will also be watching for BREAKING NEWS...Obama....

[victory]

Thank you for this site Murray.

I'm glad this was said. I really don't want to come here to read posts declaring support, whether half-heartedly or not, for BO. What happened this primary was a travesty.

[VotingHillary]

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012



Murray,

I love a person with a gameplan. For the record, I concur with it.

[hillarymyhero]

We are already moving forward. Obama and Democratic party is our past....

We do not know Obama. If you wish to insist on voting for Obama and hating McCain, then (like Murray mentioned) with all due respect why don't you get a fresh breath and refresh your self with www.obama.com

We will wish you all the good luck and good bye...No hard feelings. But, here on this forum we can not take this Obama's brain washing stuff any more...

Our plan is to get McCain elected for 08
Your Plan is to dislike McCain....So we are in two different worlds. Trust me you'll find so many of like minded people in www.obama.com.

Regards
Sorry, Murray I got in the middle....sheeesh( I should shut my mouth).....:D

[RayinAR]

DNC we are Mccain Democrats. Independents actually. I will never again support the Democratic Communist Party. They can go straight to hell and beg for ice water.

[Soaring Eagle]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.


Thank you!!!!!

[mcgowan.swan]

thank you for that murray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i cant watch my girl back him, so i am not watching any of it. i really dont think she means it. i think she will wait out the summer and watch. meanwhile, i am still a hillary supporter who will be voting for mccain. i went and changed my voter registration thursday. it will not change until january, but i got a copy of my change request and i am mailing it to howard dean with a letter stating why i left and why i will never support obama. i was going to go independent, but in new york that just shows as not enrolled, so to make a point i changed to republican. i was the only democrat within a hundred miles anyway, so i hope my defection was actually noticed. lol i feel suddenly free!!! after forty two years i am not a democrat anymore. never would have thought it. i would return if hillary were the nominee, but for no other reason, and only if dean, pelosi, etc, were gone. i will probably go independent in the long run, but for now i am a hillary republican. lol feels good. and i will be a hillary mccainocrat in the general, if hillary is not the eventual nominee. i ordered signs for my yard and a sticker to go in between hillary's stickers on my car. ride 'em cowboy - go mccain!!!!:):)

[jgilmore]

So the goal of this site is to see that Hillary is elected president--if not this year, then in 2012. I've been abused enough by the BO people. The last thing we need is more of them on this site. The site will be good as it will help keep many who might weaken strong. The Dems must be taught a lesson. We are the ones to teach it.

[shadow]

Thank god for you Murray. I don't want to have to play nice and put up with Obama people here. I'm sorry I feel this way but, it's not my fault. I don't want bystanders to abuse or those who can condone it here. It's one of our ONLY safe havens!!

I can't fathom personally how anyone can vote for him but, if it's not up for discussion here *as it is everywhere else* then we can be more productive FOR Hillary or McCain.

Yes!! If I have to listen to more "come back, we forgive you, now be good democrats", I will implode.

Let them go to OB's site. This is our site and NO OBama please.

[CGP]

But this is still the Hillary Clinton Forum...right?

Being against McCain does not make me for Obama. Simple as that.

Look the general election has not begun.....why jump on the other side so fast. Why keep people that have been a huge part of the forum from speaking from their heart as others here are allowed.

I just don't understand why, but will accept it.

If Plan A & C resonate with you, then there is no problem!

Perhaps Plan B needs to include other options like: not vote, vote independent, write in etc.

[jerseygirl7]

Agree, I think we can skip the word "unity" - that's already been owned by someone who shall remain nameless! I changed to a "revised focus".

I agree. I have no interest in big party politics. My support of HC was always about HER - not the party she represents.

Murray: your plan is great. I am very concerned though what may happen if, God forbid, Hillary is offered and accepts the VP position. While I don't think she will, and will say words tonight to the effect, it still remains unanswered.

If she did accept it, I think there will be a large percentage who may vote for Obama with her on the ticket. At that point, the "party is over" and it is McCain without a doubt. That would also eliminate a 2012 run for her.

[CGP]

Murray: your plan is great. I am very concerned though what may happen if, God forbid, Hillary is offered and accepts the VP position. While I don't think she will, and will say words tonight to the effect, it still remains unanswered.

If she did accept it, I think there will be a large percentage who may vote for Obama with her on the ticket. At that point, the "party is over" and it is McCain without a doubt. That would also eliminate a 2012 run for her.

We will cross that bridge if/when it arises!

[RayinAR]

We will cross that bridge if/when it arises!

I personally do not think it is even going to be offered.

[RayinAR]

I think he will pick Judas Richardson.

[RayinAR]

If Mccain picks Michael Bloomberg to be VP BO will lose NY also.

[ZY123]

Murray: your plan is great. I am very concerned though what may happen if, God forbid, Hillary is offered and accepts the VP position. While I don't think she will, and will say words tonight to the effect, it still remains unanswered.

If she did accept it, I think there will be a large percentage who may vote for Obama with her on the ticket. At that point, the "party is over" and it is McCain without a doubt. That would also eliminate a 2012 run for her.

Yes let's all vote Obama because he gave Hillary a scrap...almost as silly as voting for someone based on their party affiliation. Ugh. I also think the "party" may force her to accept it....does anyone see the corruption YET?

(btw...that's not aimed at you just at the idea of someone voting for Obama only because he offered Hillary VP)

[jerseygirl7]

We will cross that bridge if/when it arises!

Ok, its been a long day for all of us! Have the moderators that attended the speech talked about their experience???? Can't help but think the attendees were told to cheer when she mentioned Obama's name.

[MarkMiller]

If Plan A & C resonate with you, then there is no problem!

Perhaps Plan B needs to include other options like: not vote, vote independent, write in etc.

That's it. I think many people would agree that this site has so much going for it to turn away people that still want to fight for hillary. I think there is a way to coexist. I really do.

[ZY123]

If Mccain picks Michael Bloomberg to be VP BO will lose NY also.


I'm now your biggest fan...BLOOMBERG!!!!! ;)

If McCain is smart he will pick Bloomberg, that will get many Independents on his side.

[Area504]

As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.



Thank you for this Murray. It means a lot that you're taking this stand.

[Area504]

Perhaps Plan B needs to include other options like: not vote, vote independent, write in etc.

Let me just toss this out at those of you who want Hillary to run in 2012, but will not vote for McCain in November...

Staying home, voting 3rd party, writing in Hillary's name are all choices that take away your vote for Barack Obama.

BUT voting for John McCain takes away your vote from BO AND gives it to his opponent. It's like voting against BO twice!

If BO wins, there will be no chance for Hillary in 2012. BO will run for re-election...and if you think the DNC dumped on her this time, you ain't seen nothing yet if she tries to usurp his re-election bid.

Consider a vote for McCain -- for the sake of preserving a place on the Democratic ticket in 2012 for Hillary.

[CGP]

Let me just toss this out at those of you who want Hillary to run in 2012, but will not vote for McCain in November...

Staying home, voting 3rd party, writing in Hillary's name are all choices that take away your vote for Barack Obama.

BUT voting for John McCain takes away your vote from BO AND gives it to his opponent. It's like voting against BO twice!

If BO wins, there will be no chance for Hillary in 2012. BO will run for re-election...and if you think the DNC dumped on her this time, you ain't seen nothing yet if she tries to usurp his re-election bid.

Consider a vote for McCain -- for the sake of preserving a place on the Democratic ticket in 2012 for Hillary.

I am with you. And agree.

Just trying to be as inclusive as possible as I realise some will not be able to stomach supporting a GOP candidate, even though they still oppose BO.

[Gerry2008]

I personally do not think it is even going to be offered.
Then Michelle Obama will have to make good her threat* to 'rip Bill Clinton's eyes out' and I don't think Hillary would go for that!

* http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/04/barackobama

[Eridon]

Hillary's supporters are 18,000,000 strong. Seems to me we ought to be able to get her elected. McCain doesn't have 18,000,000, and O. is growing weaker by the hour. I really believe she should run as an Independent with her name on the ballot. What does she need the (un-)Democratic Party for? All the party did was stand in her way, and in the way of everyone's hope for a much better future.

[RayinAR]

Thank you for this Murray. It means a lot that you're taking this stand.

It really really does. If not Hillary I will be almost as enthusiastic about putting McCain in there over Obama.

[CGP]

Hillary's supporters are 18,000,000 strong. Seems to me we ought to be able to get her elected. McCain doesn't have 18,000,000, and O. is growing weaker by the hour. I really believe she should run as an Independent with her name on the ballot. What does she need the (un-)Democratic Party for? All the party did was stand in her way, and in the way of everyone's hope for a much better future.

She won't run as independent. So we need to let go of that fantasy - I wanted for that to become reality. But it will never happen.

[mjoynaples]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.



yes I feel very strongly too that HILLARY 2008 is imperative... !!!!!

[Alex01]

But this is still the Hillary Clinton Forum...right?

Being against McCain does not make me for Obama. Simple as that.

Look the general election has not begun.....why jump on the other side so fast. Why keep people that have been a huge part of the forum from speaking from their heart as others here are allowed.

My biggest fear is that this is quickly becoming a more "pro-McCain" than "pro-Hillary" site. She didn't concede, she kept her delegates, but people are eagerly gathering to vote for McCain.

No one here is for BO - that is plain. But it seems a lot are ready to chuck Senator Clinton to the side for McCain. I personally think it's because that will be easier than fighting on for Hillary, which has been very difficult. But having her in the White House in the end will be worth it.

Obviously, she thinks she can win, or she'd have thrown in the towel. We need to show her we haven't thrown it in, either.

[mcgowan.swan]

as a new yorker i have to say that if moderate mccain picks really republican bloomberg as vp, i will have a hard time voting for him. i was hoping for romney, another moderate somewhat. although i do believe mccain will try to pick a real conservative for vp to grab that part of the party. that will make it a little hard to vote for him, but i will have to anyway. no obama not ever. :mad::mad::mad:

[Tom Terrific]

If Plan A & C resonate with you, then there is no problem!

Perhaps Plan B needs to include other options like: not vote, vote independent, write in etc.

Obama must be DEFEATED. Staying home, voting for someone else ... these will not DEFEAT him. The only way to DEFEAT him at this point is to vote for McCain.

Let's use an extreme example to make the point. Let's say the candidates are as follows: Hitler (Dem), Ford (Repub) and a Bowl of Jello (Ind; can't win). Do you stay home? Do you vote for the Jello? I think not.

All you have to do to rationalize voting for McCain is realize that no matter how much you disagree with him, he won't be as bad as Obama. That's all. When you add the fact that Obama is a total clown's ass with less savoir faire than a retarded German shepherd, it's not even an intelligent question.

Please, please ... Hold your nose and vote for the candidate who as actually DONE something for America! :)

[Eridon]

When Obama slipped and said 57 states instead of 50, he was referring to the 57 states of Islam. Again, this kind of slip would be perfectly okay if he were just a citizen, but is not appropriate for a President.

[Sandy in PA]

But it seems a lot are ready to chuck Senator Clinton to the side for McCain. I personally think it's because that will be easier than fighting on for Hillary, which has been very difficult. But having her in the White House in the end will be worth it.

I don't think anyone is chucking her to the side. We are just being realistic. We know that the DNC wants obama on the ticket. If he wins in November, what are the chances of getting rid of him in 2012? Obviously, if by hook or by crook, obama gets himself booted from this race before November and Hillary is back in, we will support her. But, in the meantime, we can't let him get near the White House. Its that simple, and we can't wait to mobilize until after the convention, we have to have things in place now.

[Lodi]

I am glad Murrey that you made them not welcome to express their views here. We are a Pro Hillary always site and yes I still say fight just remember what we need to do. I say we punish the Democrats but we MUST MAKE SURE THAT OBAMA IS THE BIGGEST LOSER IN HISTORY. Let me tell you the Obama people know that if just 10% of Hillary's supporters turn to McCain that is a landslide victory and that is true as we are all loyal democrats and are expected to go to Obama. I wish to send a completely different number I would like the majority of us to go to McCain and I really feel that this is working. We got Joe Lieberman courting us and believe me Obama may piss off enough people back to us. He is such a f**king uniter lol. Dumbo is not going to be able to steal the General Election

You have a way of making me smile when I'm feeling down. Love ya! Thanks!:)

Gerry & Murray: I'm down with the plan and with Hillarysmygirl's idea for the extra push. In the words of Ziggy Marley, "Got to be true to myself..."

Hillary 2008
McCain 2008
Hillary 20012

[RayinAR]

She won't run as independent. So we need to let go of that fantasy - I wanted for that to become reality. But it will never happen.

I agree totally. Not productive hoping for something that will never happen. I think we should try to get a hold of McCain and tell him he should pick Mayor Michael Bloomberg of NYC to be his running mate. That would give McCain NY over BO.

[Eridon]

I don't think it matters who wins the general, as long as it isn't Obama. But the fact is, whoever gets in will have to have more votes than Obama, and McCain looks like the only one.

[hillary4change]

That's it. I think many people would agree that this site has so much going for it to turn away people that still want to fight for hillary. I think there is a way to coexist. I really do.

We respect your choice. Murray said if you agree with plan a or c that is fine. A protest non vote is fine.

Murray,
Love ya, that is fine for me. You know where I stand.
I am still going to work to elevate Hillary otherwise McCain!

[Gerry2008]

My biggest fear is that this is quickly becoming a more "pro-McCain" than "pro-Hillary" site. She didn't concede, she kept her delegates, but people are eagerly gathering to vote for McCain.

No one here is for BO - that is plain. But it seems a lot are ready to chuck Senator Clinton to the side for McCain. I personally think it's because that will be easier than fighting on for Hillary, which has been very difficult. But having her in the White House in the end will be worth it.

Obviously, she thinks she can win, or she'd have thrown in the towel. We need to show her we haven't thrown it in, either.

In my original post I said:

I continue to unreservedly support Hillary's nomination but not her call for support of Obama and I believe these are compatible goals.
Our goal is to nominate Hillary but we need to face facts and prepare to defeat Obama if that fails. And we're up against the corrupt DNC so try to look at our McCain support as a way to elect Hillary in 2012.

[justme819]

REASONS?!!......I`LL GIVE YOU REASONS...I`VE BEEN BLOGGING FOR HILLARY FOR MONTHS...EVERY DAY...16-20 HRS/DAY...7 DAYS A WEEK...IN EVERY STATE...

TO DO THIS, I HAD TO THOROUGHLY RESEARCH EACH CANDIDATE...NOT ONLY DID I FIND OUT WHAT A SUPERIOR CANDIDATE HILLARY IS TO BO IN ALMOST EVERY WAY...BUT, DURING THIS TIME, I SAW INDICATIONS THAT BO IS STRONGLY ANTI-AMERICAN...WHICH THE MSM FINALLY STARTED PICKING UP ON WITH THE REV. J. WRIGHT JR. IN MARCH 08!

THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF DEM. VS. REP...FROM WHAT I`VE SEEN, ETC., THIS IS A RACIAL, ANTI-AMERICAN VS. AN AMERICAN WAR HERO!

I`VE BLOGGED AND LOGGED LITERALLY DOZENS AND DOZENS AND DOZENS, ETC., OF REASONS TO VOTE FOR HILLARY AND AGAINST BO...PERHAPS I`LL START POSTING THEM ALL HERE TOO!...FOR NOW, I`LL ONLY SAY THAT I FOUND McCAIN SUPPORTERS JOINING ME AND USING MANY OF THE EXACT SAME ARGUEMENTS TO FIGHT OFF BO SUPPORTERS...THE OBVIOUS EX. ARE THE FOX BLOGS...GRETA-WIRE FOR EX...

WHY FOX?... BECAUSE, IN TERMS OF GETTING TRAFFIC, THEY`RE IN THE TOP 5...AND GET MORE THAN CNN AND MSNBC COMBINED...IN OTHER WORDS, POST SOMETHING THERE AND IT`LL MOST LIKELY GET READ BY VOTERS...INCLUDING THE ALL-IMPORTANT SWING/IND. VOTERS!

IN BRIEF, FROM WHAT I`VE SEEN, ETC., BO MUST BE STOPPED!...EITHER FROM BECOMING THE DEM. NOM....OR IN THE GE!!!

[hillaryprevails]

No obama, not now, never~~~~~~~`
everyone, if you ever think of voting obama, try to refresh your memory-
from Jan 08 to June 03 08, how did Obama treat Hillary.

We know he is fraud. Don't vote him!!!!!!!

[RayinAR]

She won't run as independent. So we need to let go of that fantasy - I wanted for that to become reality. But it will never happen.

My biggest fear is that this is quickly becoming a more "pro-McCain" than "pro-Hillary" site. She didn't concede, she kept her delegates, but people are eagerly gathering to vote for McCain.

No one here is for BO - that is plain. But it seems a lot are ready to chuck Senator Clinton to the side for McCain. I personally think it's because that will be easier than fighting on for Hillary, which has been very difficult. But having her in the White House in the end will be worth it.

Obviously, she thinks she can win, or she'd have thrown in the towel. We need to show her we haven't thrown it in, either.

I may talk pro McCain but that is only if we have to concider it. I will always be more Pro Hillary.

[Eridon]

I was born in NY. New York will never vote for McCain. NY is Hillary's, and their philosophies and policies are diametrically opposed. It makes me cringe to think of McCain's domestic policies, which is why I have a real problem about voting for him. However, I do believe that he is the only one who can compete with Obama at this stage.

[Gerry2008]

When Obama slipped and said 57 states instead of 50, he was referring to the 57 states of Islam. Again, this kind of slip would be perfectly okay if he were just a citizen, but is not appropriate for a President.

OMG - I thought you were joking.
The Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) is an international organization with a permanent delegation to the United Nations. It groups 57 Islamic member states... for more see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_the_Islamic_Conference

[Alessandro Machi]

Over the next weeks and months we will be under attack by the DNC and the Democratic Party membership to fall in line. We will be urged to heed our leader Hillary's own words and to fear the Republican Party and John McCain.

We must remain strong and not forget what brought us together. We supported Hillary because we believe in her and her policies. We also studied Obama, his policies, and his associations because, in truth, we had to try to understand why he was successful. For most of us we came to realize that Obama was not remotely acceptable as our candidate under ANY circumstances.

Already, several of our members have expressed their intention to vote for Obama and because we are not like the immature name-calling Obama supporters, we must say to them that we respectfully disagree and hope you will reconsider.

I continue to unreservedly support Hillary's nomination but not her call for support of Obama and I believe these are compatible goals.

I plan to compile a set of reasons why I believe that Obama should never become POTUS and be ready to both discuss and post these reasons whenever my judgment is questioned. I will also compile a set of reasons why McCain is more than acceptable to become POTUS beginning with the fact that he is an American hero and has 30 years of demonstrable experience.

I will be counting on my friends here for support. I predict that there will be days ahead that will be hard to get through and I believe if we continue to help each other with knowledge and information we can make it.

So my plea is for unity within our forum. I hope we can allow those who disagree to leave us without resorting to Obama-type tactics - as hard as that will be. We - those of us who will never vote for Obama - are already being called a 'small group of feminist women' which I know is wrong - we're not small and like me, includes plenty of men. Let's prove that we put our country above our party and show the DNC what unity means.

If you need a piece of garlic to keep back the BO vampires, hold up a mirror and say "Fair Reflection". When the mirror is put up to the Great Plains States caucuses, it becomes clear that Barack won because of unfair Caucus system that never accurately reflected the voters in their state.

[MissDeeCee]

I came here not only because I supported Hillary but because I was so upset that no one in the media was telling the truth about Obama. And when the press got ugly towards Hillary more and more I was in such a need of a place to share my thoughts and find out if others were finding the same things out that I was finding...that this forum was a miracle for me that I needed.

When I arrived here (a few months ago) I knew I could never vote for Obama. I had found out enough that red flags were going off where ever I had looked on the internet. And that has not changed...infact I have even stronger resolve not to vote for him. And I was not too happy with the DNC and now I am livid with the DNC.

If someone wants to vote for Obama that is their business and I will not condemn them for their decision. I have not walked a mile in their shoes no more than they have walked in mine. I wish them the best. So we will see now how it all goes. I will be watching the candidates, the candidates that are not of the two parties too. I will also be watching for BREAKING NEWS...Obama....

I found this site this past Monday during my ongoing research of this fraudulent, mindless, do nothing hack that seemed to stealing the nomination from the REAL democratic nominee.....

I have felt like a party of one for so long because NO ONE wants to hear anything negative about the anointed one... I was so happy to find out that I was not the only one who sees BO and MO for what they really are. I watched as the MO/Whitey tape went from being another peice of damaging info on the internet about the teflon BO to a story that was being discussed in the psychophantic MSM - and this is without an actual tape yet...! I think that is largely in part because of the communication on this forum.

So all this to say, those of you that have been on here for months may have lost sight of what you are actually acclompishing. As someone new to the site, it has given me a sense of hope (dare I say) that BO/MO will be exposed for what they really are.

I cried from the moment Hillary took the stage today up through the moment they ceased coverage.... not because I thought she had given up, but because she still inspires me with what she has acclompished... and the fight STILL left in her after everything the DNC, Obama and the media have put her through. August will be the 88th anniversary of women gaining the right to vote - if she had not fought this fight, another election would have passed with a woman president being the figment of someone's imagination.

I still believe that her name will be on the ballot come November, so I refuse to even consider voting for anyone else. After learning all I have about BO in the months and months I have been my own blog page of one.... I will NEVER vote for him.

So, I am focusing on doing what ever in the hell it is I need to do to make sure Hillary Clinton is on the ballot in November and my new neighbor in the White House - I know, I know... she already lives here.... :D

We are sooooo close - I am still not ready to believe she is giving up either... DENVER BABY!!!!

Who's with me? Anyone? Anyone? Is this thing on......? ;)

[Eridon]

I just had an idea: Can we impeach the DNC?

[Viktoriya]

O, it is so good to be here.
It is pro-Hillary, no-Obama site:)
We have a great people here.

[mjoynaples]

I could never vote for BO after everything that has transpired.

has done business this past primary season-and it goes on.. I do not think I will watch tv again and hope to GOD these days to the convention go quickly and not good news for BO so the convention nomination goes smoothly for HILLARY I will never vote for BO!


I just had an idea: Can we impeach the DNC? I love this idea, along with serious VOTER REFORM and no more caucuses!! we need to have one vote one person!!!

[CGP]

My biggest fear is that this is quickly becoming a more "pro-McCain" than "pro-Hillary" site. She didn't concede, she kept her delegates, but people are eagerly gathering to vote for McCain.

No one here is for BO - that is plain. But it seems a lot are ready to chuck Senator Clinton to the side for McCain. I personally think it's because that will be easier than fighting on for Hillary, which has been very difficult. But having her in the White House in the end will be worth it.

Obviously, she thinks she can win, or she'd have thrown in the towel. We need to show her we haven't thrown it in, either.

No, no.

This site remains first and foremost PRO-HILLARY!

Any plans to support McCain are out of pure desperation! The DNC needs to know NOW that some/many supporters of Hillary Clinton will vote for John McCain if Clinton is not the nominee. What good is it if they only learn of this post-convention?

Part of "fighting on for Hillary" is showing that people are serious in abandoning the DNC if she is not elected as the nominee. It's a bargaining tool and it must be used. Given an eventual choice between Clinton and McCain, it's commonsense that her supporters will choose her!

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Hillary now must take a backseat and the fight is left for the supporters to take up! Don't forget the big picture which is this: Hillary 2008 or Hillary 2012. The roads to getting there are many and varied, but the most powerful one is not supporting BO under any circumstances.

[ScottVA]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.

COUNT ME IN WHOLE HEARTEDLY.... if anyone is unhappy with our Anti Obama Pro Hillary McCain leaning bent.... then don't come here and try to spin the WHAT IF's.... it's WAY TOO LATE for them!

HILLARY '08 (because I still think she'll take the nomination (since she is still in the game) and Obama has B-52's flying over his house right now....LOL

Otherwise....it's
McCain '08 because I care WAYYY too much about my safety in this Country!

[Eridon]

If you need a piece of garlic to keep back the BO vampires, hold up a mirror and say "Fair Reflection". When the mirror is put up to the Great Plains States caucuses, it becomes clear that Barack won because of unfair Caucus system that never accurately reflected the voters in their state.

I didn't like what I saw at the Maine caucuses either. I didn't like the idea of a caucus anyhow, because peer pressure is an element. The backbone of a democracy is a secret ballot so that each one of us can vote in private with no one looking over our shoulder. With a caucus, everyone is watching.

[ScottVA]

My biggest fear is that this is quickly becoming a more "pro-McCain" than "pro-Hillary" site. She didn't concede, she kept her delegates, but people are eagerly gathering to vote for McCain.

No one here is for BO - that is plain. But it seems a lot are ready to chuck Senator Clinton to the side for McCain. I personally think it's because that will be easier than fighting on for Hillary, which has been very difficult. But having her in the White House in the end will be worth it.

Obviously, she thinks she can win, or she'd have thrown in the towel. We need to show her we haven't thrown it in, either.

I think we're all smart enough to work both sides of the fence now! it's ALWAYS HILLARY FIRST and McCAIN SECOND.......BAR NONE! We're just not putting all our eggs in one basket!

[brussell]

Love it, love it, love it!
Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.

[CGP]

So all this to say, those of you that have been on here for months may have lost sight of what you are actually acclompishing. As someone new to the site, it has given me a sense of hope (dare I say) that BO/MO will be exposed for what they really are.

Thanks for this perspective. It's hard to judge what we do/don't achieve but your suggestion is welcome!

[Lodi]

I was born in NY. New York will never vote for McCain. NY is Hillary's, and their philosophies and policies are diametrically opposed. It makes me cringe to think of McCain's domestic policies, which is why I have a real problem about voting for him. However, I do believe that he is the only one who can compete with Obama at this stage.

Eridon: pls see Gerry's post right below yours. I think Obama is truly anti-America and dangerous, and I am not an alarmist, conspiracy theorist, or extremist. He will do a great deal damage to an already weak and ailing country.

McCain on the other hand will be kept in check by a Democratic Congress, and we'll all still be speaking out for what we believe in, which is what it takes to get anything done, anyway.

I am not afraid of John McCain. He'll be more yielding once he gets into office.

That said, there's still plenty of time for plan A to come to pass!

[musgrrl]

I was there today at the speech in the National Museum Building and I have to say that it was something to see. When she started saying that we have to support BO, there were a lot of people not clapping. They only clapped when she made points that pertained to her.

I was in line with Dems that seemed to have no problem supporting BO, which made me uneasy, but I was glad to see someone selling Hillary 2012 t-shirts and there seemed to be a lot of folks that didn't see supporting BO as an option.

As I said before, my focus is to get Hillary elected and so I will focus on that. She is doing what she has to do to be able to be in the Democratic party. She seems to be devoted to this party, which is something that I'm not. But if it means that much to her, I will try to understand it and accept what she's doing.

Voting for Hillary via McCain.

[Three Wickets]

Count me in. The immediate visceral reason I would never vote Obama is Dean, Pelosi, NBC, the self serving bullies. In time though, it will be about BO's weak experience, which means heavier role of advisors in an BO admin. Who would be pulling the strings. To much risk. This community I hope does not get hijacked into becoming a McCain advocacy group. It should always be Hillary's house. But if the GE was tomorrow, I vote McCain.

[Elijah4Hillary]

I agree wholeheartedly:

Plan A: Hillary 08
Plan B: McCain 08
Plan C: Hillary 2012

The DNC and Obama's 24-hour ATM machine could try bribing me, but no amount of money could ever make me vote for him.

Let's set some goals for the next 10 weeks or so. I plan to keep writing to superdelegates.

[freespirit]

Thank god for you Murray. I don't want to have to play nice and put up with Obama people here. I'm sorry I feel this way but, it's not my fault. I don't want bystanders to abuse or those who can condone it here. It's one of our ONLY safe havens!!

I can't fathom personally how anyone can vote for him but, if it's not up for discussion here *as it is everywhere else* then we can be more productive FOR Hillary or McCain.

Well said! Thank you Murray for clarifying the forum's position. I know some plan to write in Hillary, some plan to vote McCain, some plan to refrain from voting, and I'm sure, some will now plan to vote for Obama. I like the fact that those who have chosed the first three options can discuss and exchange information and support related to Hillary without feeling the need to "convert" others to their course of action. But, if those who plan to vote BO are free to discuss those plans, I believe tension would run so high, the focus would be removed from our goal of continuing to support Hillary when BO bites the dust, and he will. :)

[Eridon]

Re: Plan A, I would prefer to attack the DNC with impeachment proceedings. If this isn't possible, then 4 years of McCain might break it up.

Somehow, impeachment of the DNC must be possible, and we sure do have the incentive and the numbers. I'll try and find out how it's done. Maybe some people have already started this?

[CGP]

But, if those who plan to vote BO are free to discuss those plans, I believe tension would run so high, the focus would be removed from our goal of continuing to support Hillary when BO bites the dust, and he will. :)

Exactly, so they must find a new home. Though I do believe this relates to a small number of people only.

[samkm]

REASONS?!!......I`LL GIVE YOU REASONS...I`VE BEEN BLOGGING FOR HILLARY FOR MONTHS...EVERY DAY...16-20 HRS/DAY...7 DAYS A WEEK...IN EVERY STATE...

TO DO THIS, I HAD TO THOROUGHLY RESEARCH EACH CANDIDATE...NOT ONLY DID I FIND OUT WHAT A SUPERIOR CANDIDATE HILLARY IS TO BO IN ALMOST EVERY WAY...BUT, DURING THIS TIME, I SAW INDICATIONS THAT BO IS STRONGLY ANTI-AMERICAN...WHICH THE MSM FINALLY STARTED PICKING UP ON WITH THE REV. J. WRIGHT JR. IN MARCH 08!

THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF DEM. VS. REP...FROM WHAT I`VE SEEN, ETC., THIS IS A RACIAL, ANTI-AMERICAN VS. AN AMERICAN WAR HERO!

I`VE BLOGGED AND LOGGED LITERALLY DOZENS AND DOZENS AND DOZENS, ETC., OF REASONS TO VOTE FOR HILLARY AND AGAINST BO...PERHAPS I`LL START POSTING THEM ALL HERE TOO!...FOR NOW, I`LL ONLY SAY THAT I FOUND McCAIN SUPPORTERS JOINING ME AND USING MANY OF THE EXACT SAME ARGUEMENTS TO FIGHT OFF BO SUPPORTERS...THE OBVIOUS EX. ARE THE FOX BLOGS...GRETA-WIRE FOR EX...

WHY FOX?... BECAUSE, IN TERMS OF GETTING TRAFFIC, THEY`RE IN THE TOP 5...AND GET MORE THAN CNN AND MSNBC COMBINED...IN OTHER WORDS, POST SOMETHING THERE AND IT`LL MOST LIKELY GET READ BY VOTERS...INCLUDING THE ALL-IMPORTANT SWING/IND. VOTERS!

IN BRIEF, FROM WHAT I`VE SEEN, ETC., BO MUST BE STOPPED!...EITHER FROM BECOMING THE DEM. NOM....OR IN THE GE!!!

justme819, I had the same experience.. I often found the Republicans coming in support of my arguments when I was totally bashed by BOTs. Some even went so far as to make donations to HRC and said they would vote for HRC if she is the nominee; I had this experience on Gretawire.

Yes, I would very much like to see you create a separate threadline and post your blog items so that we have the benefit of your summary research in one place. Thanks.

[Kaylin]

I agree that declaring our intent to vote for McCain (if Hillary is not the nominee) is a good idea. tonight I was watching Kirsten Powers on Hannity and Colmes and she said if McCain only peeled off 5 percent of Hillary's 18 million voters, he'd pick up almost a million votes.

I actually think 5 percent might even be a low guestimate, because while party voters usually do 'go home' in November, this time around the reasons people are turning away from the nominee are the types of things people don't change their mind about. People don't regain their trust once they've decided someone is a racist, or has too many questionable longtime associates.

what else can we do for Hillary besides getting it out there that we're not kidding about voting for McCain?

and btw, I'm not ignoring or disrespecting forum members who will be making other voting decisions, it's just that 'voting McCain' is the option the DNC would be most concerned about.

[CGP]

and btw, I'm not ignoring or disrespecting forum members who will be making other voting decisions, it's just that 'voting McCain' is the option the DNC would be most concerned about.

Yes, all the more reason for us to discuss this publicly now so those people who are willing to support BO can find a new home without being ridiculed here! I won't allow that. People can make that choice, but they best express it elsewhere.

[movingtous]

Safety is a feeling that too many people take for granted. I remember hearing bombs go off in the night, in the final days of Saigon. I remember the fear. I also remember the peace and tranquility I felt, upon arriving in this country, at the age of seven. I remember it very clearly because I was always afraid that it would end. I was so afraid that I would wake up one day and be told that I had to leave. For those of you who have always felt safe and secure, you need to appreciate that and thank those who help make that possible. I feel Obama is a threat to our security, that's why I would never support him.

[Hoosier]

Thank you Murray and you can count me in. The Democratic Party showed me no loyalty and I intend to return the favor in November if Hillary is not the nominee.

[Annie]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.

Resonating loud and clear :D

A or B or C -c'est tout!

[Lodi]

Let me just toss this out at those of you who want Hillary to run in 2012, but will not vote for McCain in November...

Staying home, voting 3rd party, writing in Hillary's name are all choices that take away your vote for Barack Obama.

BUT voting for John McCain takes away your vote from BO AND gives it to his opponent. It's like voting against BO twice!

If BO wins, there will be no chance for Hillary in 2012. BO will run for re-election...and if you think the DNC dumped on her this time, you ain't seen nothing yet if she tries to usurp his re-election bid.

Consider a vote for McCain -- for the sake of preserving a place on the Democratic ticket in 2012 for Hillary.

That's exactly right!!!

[lanesharon]

I cannot, at this time, support McCain for President. But, it will not bother me to read posts that are pro-McCain on here. He has treated Hillary respectfully through this journey. I may, in the future, change my mind. But, first I heal. Then, I activate against the things that caused this situation. By then, it may be time for me to make my decision, and I will be ready. ;)

[Suzan]

Like Mark, I'm one of those with concerns about McCain, although unless McCain does something totally off the wall before November, I'll be voting for him. I remember McCain fondly as a maverick and much more moderate in his views than he's had to become to get the Republican nom, so I'm hoping he's done what's Hillary's just had to do and that's play along to get along, iow, stoop to conquer.

My question now is whether I'll be able to campaign for him. Possibly on some issues, but not on others. I'm fervently pro-choice and could never argue for a pro-life stance. I don't want more conservative judges on the court. It's already over-balanced with them. I want some damn tax relief for the middle class and I want health care reform, but not the kind he's offering ... or what I think he's offering. That's the problem. I'm not yet sure what he's offering. So, it's a wait and see for me ... and while I'm waiting, I'm hoping the real John McCain will stand up.

[Annie]

as a new yorker i have to say that if moderate mccain picks really republican bloomberg as vp, i will have a hard time voting for him. i was hoping for romney, another moderate somewhat. although i do believe mccain will try to pick a real conservative for vp to grab that part of the party. that will make it a little hard to vote for him, but i will have to anyway. no obama not ever. :mad::mad::mad:

If McCain wants that 'tape' he will have to take on Rudy Guiliani as vp...he has it. I don't look at Rudy as being a far right wing conservative but he is a very hard nosed Attorney - he fought the mob big time and won. He was also a clean up mayor of New York after the Dinkens disaster - though he was really not a hero during the 9/11 disaster - he did well after though. (long story)

[Renee in Florida]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.



Murray, so well said, spot on. !!!!

[movingtous]

I want some damn tax relief for the middle class and I want health care reform, but not the kind he's offering ... or what I think he's offering. That's the problem. I'm not yet sure what he's offering. So, it's a wait and see for me ... and while I'm waiting, I'm hoping the real John McCain will stand up.

You're not going to like the kind that Obama offers, either. I know what Universal Health Care really is, I lived in France for 14 years. Obama's version will NOT work because it is not mandated. Universal care is really misunderstood by America. Most of the developed nations have it, and it's great.

[Lodi]

Safety is a feeling that too many people take for granted. I remember hearing bombs go off in the night, in the final days of Saigon. I remember the fear. I also remember the peace and tranquility I felt, upon arriving in this country, at the age of seven. I remember it very clearly because I was always afraid that it would end. I was so afraid that I would wake up one day and be told that I had to leave. For those of you who have always felt safe and secure, you need to appreciate that and thank those who help make that possible. I feel Obama is a threat to our security, that's why I would never support him.

I'm glad you're here, safe and sound!

And I agree with your assessment! As someone who experienced Sept. 11 from way up close and lost three people and was traumatized beyond belief when the pier I was standing on shook as the Towers fell and the fighter jets overhead and from the second plane circling this close to my head and the smell of death for weeks on end and the smouldering fire that we thought would burn forever and the cough I developed since then and gripping fear while riding the subway or PATH trains, the National Guardsmen stationed 50 ft from our building, which was 27 stories on the waterfront and a prime target...

I can go on...but I don't think I need to.

By his profoundly bad judgment and inexperience alone, Obama poses a threat not only to our security but to our nationhood. Personally, I don't want to live (or die) through a civil war. The nation is already weakened; the dollar is shit; people were already stretched and stressed, and now we're divided, too.

We know we need Hillary, but if it turns out we can't have her, we need to save the ship with McCain.

[JamieKuuipo]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.

My stance also, no obama

[CGP]

Like Mark, I'm one of those with concerns about McCain, although unless McCain does something totally off the wall before November, I'll be voting for him. I remember McCain fondly as a maverick and much more moderate in his views than he's had to become to get the Republican nom, so I'm hoping he's done what's Hillary's just had to do and that's play along to get along, iow, stoop to conquer.

My question now is whether I'll be able to campaign for him. Possibly on some issues, but not on others. I'm fervently pro-choice and could never argue for a pro-life stance. I don't want more conservative judges on the court. It's already over-balanced with them. I want some damn tax relief for the middle class and I want health care reform, but not the kind he's offering ... or what I think he's offering. That's the problem. I'm not yet sure what he's offering. So, it's a wait and see for me ... and while I'm waiting, I'm hoping the real John McCain will stand up.

Believe me, supporting JM is a stance I am sure that few Hillary supporters WANT to take. But desperate times call for desperate measures. Sometimes in order to achieve certain goals (eg. Hillary 2008 or 2012) we have to take actions which are not attractive (eg. supporting a GOP candidate for people who have always voted Democrat).

[ssmith]

count me in!!

[Kaylin]

I haven't given up on Hillary 08. a lot can happen between now and Denver and I really think Obama's got more scandals and controversies coming up soon, probably within the next week or two, but definitely more before Denver.

but if it isn't Hillary this time around, I want all her options open for 2012. I want her to be in a position where she can hold her coalition together, so I'm hoping no veep for her on the Obama ticket, because if he got elected she'd be both invisible and under his thumb and her coalition would scatter. plus, if Obama is elected, chances for Hillary ever being president would diminish significantly.

I also really, truly, and genuinely believe Obama is unqualified to be president. I'm still astonished someone as inexperienced as Obama even got this far.

[blueskygal]

agree with jgilmore. Hillary did what she had to do. personally I don't believe she wants Obama to win and not just so she can run again in 2012. imo she doesn't believe Obama is qualified to be president. actually that's not just imo, Hillary pretty much said this during the campaign, when she said that she had years of experience, John McCain had years of experience, and Barack Obama had a speech he gave in 2002.

IMHO I believe this is probably a BIG REASON FOR HER SADNESS TODAY.

[blueskygal]

i want this pro-hillary as well and thanks for drawing the line in the sand.

we are going to need to fortify ourselves for what lies ahead.


NO WE WON'T


Plan A: Hillary
Plan B: McCain
Plan C: 2012

[Suzan]

You're not going to like the kind that Obama offers, either. I know what Universal Health Care really is, I lived in France for 14 years. Obama's version will NOT work because it is not mandated. Universal care is really misunderstood by America. Most of the developed nations have it, and it's great.
Please don't misunderstand, I'm not voting for Obama under ANY circumstances, and his health care plan is just one of a bazillion reasons. Actually, it's probably the most innocuous one. I also fear he could be dangerous to this country. His inexperience alone makes him dangerous. Every time I think about it I just want to scream. Has this entire country gone insane??????? No, I definitely prefer McCain over Obama. I'd prefer anyone over Obama. I just wish it was the McCain of several years ago, the guy I really admired. He's gotta be in there somewhere, doesn't he? <g>

[suerw]

OMG - I thought you were joking.
for more see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_the_Islamic_Conference

Oh, ye gosh!! Not such an innocent (though dumb) slip of the tongue as it seemed.

[El Cuco]

Hillary's website is asking people to sign to help Obama. My post aren't showing and I know why, they are all against BO It went from 800 plus against BO today to 13 lame ones tonight. It will become an BO site and I am done with that site. Please keep this pro Hillary and against BO. I need a place to come for some hope, it's so sad!

[Suzan]

Believe me, supporting JM is a stance I am sure that few Hillary supporters WANT to take. But desperate times call for desperate measures. Sometimes in order to achieve certain goals (eg. Hillary 2008 or 2012) we have to take actions which are not attractive (eg. supporting a GOP candidate for people who have always voted Democrat).
I hear you, Murray. Desperate times. I too want the road clear for Hillary, either this year or in 2012. And actually I'm not a dem. I'm an independent, and I've voted repub before. I won't say who for. You'd all throw me out of here, lol! So, it's not that voting for a Republican is totally alien to me, it's more that McCain hasn't stayed with what I thought were his core beliefs. I'm hoping he's just had to be expedient, and we'll see a little softening in some of his stances as this plays out.

[Soren]

Hillary is the great actor on the world stage today. She is who I want to watch.

[Destiny]

I found these posts on hillaryclinton.com and copied them before they were removed:



Never!!!
I replied to Hillary: *HILLARY, I WILL SUPPORT YOU TIL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, BUT NEVER FOR OBAMA. *YOU HAVE BEEN RIDICULED TO PIECES BY HIM AND HIS ARROGANT SUPPORTERS. *SORRY, HILLARY. 

I feel much better!
by Normita at 6/7/2008 1:23:19 PM


I couldn't agree more Normita
Not only has Hillary been ridiculed and disrespected but so have her supporters. *My sons did sign waving for her here in Wisconsin and Obama supporters yelled all kinds of nasty things at them and flipped them off when they drove by. *We have Hillary bumper stickers on our car and Obama supporters would be rude to us because of them. *But not once have I or my family been rude to an Obama supporter. *I will never vote for Obama and support this kind of hatred.
by Wendy at 6/7/2008 1:58:03 PM


My nine year old son asked me what does "I want a Bro not a Ho" mean?
We did four rallies for Hillary in Studio City, California (with young children) and we were flipped off and called the worst names possible. My son said to me after witnessing us getting the finger "Mom, why don't you yell back and say, YOU CAN GIVE US THE FINGER, BUT YOU CAN'T KNOCK US
DOWN?". I told him that we can't yell back because it only encourages them to say worst things to us - just ignore them.
I have a Hillary bumper sticker on my car as well and I've been receiving the finger from angry Obama supporters, with my children in the back seat. My daughter (7) wants to me to take it off our car, because she said she's scared. If anyone thinks that my daughter would want to run for President is sadly mistaken.
We can not and will not vote for Obama for the sake of our children. My husband and I could not live with ourselves after what we have been put through by his supporters. We would rather vote for McCain. Never Obama. I miss Hillary.
by Iamdestiny at 6/7/2008 2:15:04 PM



THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR KEEPING THIS SITE PRO-HILLARY ONLY!!!

P.S. Does everyone know that on Hillary's site she is asking supporters to sign up to support Obama? For me, that is a very sad thing to see!

[Kaylin]

I'm not bothered by the Obama sign-up on Hill's site. it means she's not giving the Obama campaign her full mailing list and only sharing info on site members who give their permission.

[peachick]

I'm really grateful for you keeping this forum open for all of us who aren't quitters. I happen to be a very optomistic person by nature and could never throw in the towel to complete surrender. Voting for bo is NOT an option for me. It will always be Hillary first for me. She had to do this, I know. I have been a dem for 36 yrs, but now an independent. The one and ONLY reason that I could return to dem party is if she is nominee. There is a very dark force there.

[CriticalOne]

I'm not bothered by the Obama sign-up on Hill's site. it means she's not giving the Obama campaign her full mailing list and only sharing info on site members who give their permission.

Yes, I noticed the same thing. To me this means that she hasn't yet sold her mailing list to him, and that's a good thing. How much longer she holds out remains to be seen, though.

[CGP]

Hillary's website is asking people to sign to help Obama. My post aren't showing and I know why, they are all against BO It went from 800 plus against BO today to 13 lame ones tonight. It will become an BO site and I am done with that site. Please keep this pro Hillary and against BO. I need a place to come for some hope, it's so sad!

No need to worry. This forum is well and truly pro-hillary.

[Gerry2008]

and yet I guess it strengthens my resolve.
My nine year old son asked me what does "I want a Bro not a Ho" mean?
We did four rallies for Hillary in Studio City, California (with young children) and we were flipped off and called the worst names possible. My son said to me after witnessing us getting the finger "Mom, why don't you yell back and say, YOU CAN GIVE US THE FINGER, BUT YOU CAN'T KNOCK US
DOWN?". I told him that we can't yell back because it only encourages them to say worst things to us - just ignore them.
I have a Hillary bumper sticker on my car as well and I've been receiving the finger from angry Obama supporters, with my children in the back seat. My daughter (7) wants to me to take it off our car, because she said she's scared. If anyone thinks that my daughter would want to run for President is sadly mistaken.
We can not and will not vote for Obama for the sake of our children. My husband and I could not live with ourselves after what we have been put through by his supporters. We would rather vote for McCain. Never Obama. I miss Hillary.
by Iamdestiny at 6/7/2008 2:15:04 PM

[lalene]

THANK YOU for this post! I 100% agree!

[Hillarysmygirl08]

me too and yes we did a thread on her sign up form earlier but I am not surprised that the campaign took it off her site. I do not know why Obama doesnt want to hear what it is about him that we don't like but I can assure you that is the best way to fix his problem but he is much to arrogant to do that. Hillary cannot fix your problem Dumbo you must get off your lazy ass and fix your problems yourself. Oh and everytime you or your trolls attack Hillary or the press or the DNC or everytime I see Donna Brazille I will donate money to the RNC and John McCain so that the DNC listens to its Party members in the future. Senator Obama you are about to be the loneliest man in Politics. You will be sorely blamed for the Dems being the big losers this fall and all the empty seats on the Democrat side of both the house and Senate will be placed sorely on your shoulders and guess what Hillary wins POTUS in 2012 while you will not even be in the Senate. That Senator Obama is JUSTICE

[Justmy.02]

I a NOBAMA all the way! No Bama, EVER!

If voting McCain will keep him out of the WH, then I, like some other posters, will listen and learn and try to do it for Hillary's sake.

I'm just praying some miracle happens and our girl is back on the ballot!

[lynfreedom]

I am glad to hear it. Obama never ...

[mukunda22]

gonna be in the tank for OBAMA.

I can't believe how people think he's an ok if not electable dude.

Reminds me of denial produced through drug and alcohol use.

I don't think we have to devise a way to bring this man down.

The RNC and his questionable past will do that for us. But if there is a teachable moment, I will use it!!

[carmaken]

Yesterday, I was told that the Hillary sign in my yard was history. I'm keeping it up just for spite. It makes a statement in my mind.

If I was to vote for Obama, it would be playing into the game that "defeated" her. Something has been irretrieveably broken in the process of this sham of a primary.

I will stick with your plan Murray, and thanks for the refocussing.

[luvhillary]

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012


This has been our plan all along. Nothing is going to change this. No where in this plan is Obama.

Plan A is not over yet. If A must turn to B, then B will most definately turn to C.

We must remain patient and never lose focus.

[LarryMac]

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012


Sounds like a plan to me.

[PuppyDogMom]

If it's worth fighting for, then I'll fight. And, it's not only WORTH fighting for, it's ESSENTIAL that we fight for it.

No Obama for me. I've been here since nearly the beginning of this forum, and I'm sure not leaving now!

[ALL4HILLARY]

Thank you for this call.

So that everyone is clear - I will restating it time and time again - under no circumstances will I be supporting BO. And this forum will NOT be used to further his candidacy. As such, supporters of Hillary Clinton who are willing to vote for him, best you find a new place to express your views because they will not be welcome here.

I have harshly criticized this candidate for the 4 months this forum has been alive. I cannot in good conscience now support a candidate who I believe has been complicit in abusing large segments of the population through racist, sexist and dishonest means. No way.

So, this is the deal:

Plan A: Hillary 2008
Plan B: McCain 2008
Plan C: Hillary 2012

If this does not resonate with you, find a new place to share your views. I hear www.barackobama.com is open to new members.

with you all the way Murray

[ALL4HILLARY]

Over the next weeks and months we will be under attack by the DNC and the Democratic Party membership to fall in line. We will be urged to heed our leader Hillary's own words and to fear the Republican Party and John McCain.

We must remain strong and not forget what brought us together. We supported Hillary because we believe in her and her policies. We also studied Obama, his policies, and his associations because, in truth, we had to try to understand why he was successful. For most of us we came to realize that Obama was not remotely acceptable as our candidate under ANY circumstances.

Already, several of our members have expressed their intention to vote for Obama and because we are not like the immature name-calling Obama supporters, we must say to them that we respectfully disagree and hope you will reconsider.

I continue to unreservedly support Hillary's nomination but not her call for support of Obama and I believe these are compatible goals.

I plan to compile a set of reasons why I believe that Obama should never become POTUS and be ready to both discuss and post these reasons whenever my judgment is questioned. I will also compile a set of reasons why McCain is more than acceptable to become POTUS beginning with the fact that he is an American hero and has 30 years of demonstrable experience.

I will be counting on my friends here for support. I predict that there will be days ahead that will be hard to get through and I believe if we continue to help each other with knowledge and information we can make it.

So my plea is for unity within our forum. I hope we can allow those who disagree to leave us without resorting to Obama-type tactics - as hard as that will be. We - those of us who will never vote for Obama - are already being called a 'small group of feminist women' which I know is wrong - we're not small and like me, includes plenty of men. Let's prove that we put our country above our party and show the DNC what unity means.

One thing to add about Mccain is based on his record he is more likelly to work accross parties for America than Obama did or ever will. He bullied Libberman few days back already

[ssmith]

Murray.. we are with you all the way..

hillary or then mccain.. no exceptions.. no substitutions.

I'm getting all my friends, some of whom voted for that racist thug, but now can;t stand him!!!, to come and join us here..

[Tea toaD]

I hear ya! Way more defections than I can stand. I guess his terrorist ties, his fraud and non-America loving wife are just distant memories to some. Most of us are still here with the same goal. Pretty soon all this GE crap will be in full force. I'm sure O will be making lots of stupid gaffes especially without being able to follow Hillary's lead in debates. He's on his own now.:cool:

[BooskerD]

Thanks for taking a stand...I couldn't handle any talk of voting for BO. You know, there's a lot of time between now and November for Barack to screw up...or for some new dirt to be discovered. I am not ruling Hillary out of the game.:)

[Peace]

No Probama? No Problemo!