Hannity on radio (6/10/08)...coming up Obama refusing to release birth certificate

[lynfreedom]

Just turned radio on ...Hannity was going to news break...said coming up Obama refuses to release birth certificate and that he the problems with the people he chose to vet a VP

could we be so lucky that he was really not born in US states?

[Amy Dugan]

i think he was.

[Arctic907]

I do not think the place of birth is significant. His mother was a US citizen at birth so his birth certificate would have to show that neither parent is a US citizen. JMcC was born in Panama to US citizens.

[Annie]

Just turned radio on ...Hannity was going to news break...said coming up Obama refuses to release birth certificate and that he the problems with the people he chose to vet a VP

could we be so lucky that he was really not born in US states?

Check post re GOp dirty tricks I just posted

[Sandy in PA]

I do not think the place of birth is significant. His mother was a US citizen at birth so his birth certificate would have to show that neither parent is a US citizen. JMcC was born in Panama to US citizens.

McCain was born in a US military base hospital in Panama. His parents were stationed there at the time. If you are born on a US military base in a foreign country, you are considered as American a citizen as if you were born inside the White House.

Its just like being born on US soil.

[Annie]

Here is the link I just posted on GOP Dirty Tricks.... They may have something :
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3349.shtml

[Vici57]

I was at another blog (http://www.hcsfjm.com/comments6.html) and found this interesting article about OB may not be elegible to be President. Please read! http://word.truthintheword.org/archives/1430

[EH]

I do not think the place of birth is significant. His mother was a US citizen at birth so his birth certificate would have to show that neither parent is a US citizen. JMcC was born in Panama to US citizens.

It doesn't exactly equate that way. He'd have to born on US soil, regardless of parents being US citizens or not, or (like Sandy said) he'd have to be born on a military base to a parent in the service.

Ha - I'd like to see the Obots challenge McCain's place of birth as a 3rd generation member of the US Armed Forces!

[mjno7777]

I think this needs to be merged with another thread. Check.

Let's hope this is true.

P.S. Try and put the date in front of your thread title so it doesn't get lost in massive posting.

[Vici57]

Thanks. I am not very good at blogging. But I try!

[Annie]

GOP dirty tricks operatives dispatched to Kenya to dig up any useful "dirt" on Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama, Jr., and his late Kenyan father Barack Obama, Sr., believe they have found a "smoking gun." In this case, it is a birth certificate from the Kenyan city of Mombasa registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr., on August 4, 1961. However, the registration is a common practice in African countries whose citizens abroad have families with foreign nationals. Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to his Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas, and Barack Obama, Sr., of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Kenya. Obama's parents were enrolled at the University of Hawaii. They divorced when Barack Obama was two years old.

On February 25, 2008, WMR was the first to report that a GOP opposition research team had arrived in Kenya to dig up dirt on Obama and his father: "WMR's intelligence sources in Africa are reporting that amid the post-election turmoil wracking Kenya, a three-person team (including a possible Korean-American woman) arrived in Nairobi last week and began asking questions about Barack Obama's father, the late Barack Obama, Sr. The team also inquired about the Senator Obama Secondary School in Nyangoma-Kogelo in northwestern Kenya, the area where Obama's father, an ethnic Luo, hailed and where his grandmother, Sarah Ogwel Onyango, still lives."

It now appears that this same team traveled to Mombasa and dug up a certificate registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr., to his father, a Kenyan citizen, and mother, an American citizen. The GOP hopes to make the claim that Senator Obama is not eligible to become President of the United States because he was born in a foreign country, or, at the very least, plant the seed in the voters' minds that Obama is a foreigner even if the charge is false.

GOP operatives are already trying to make political hay out of the federal conviction on June 4 of Chicago Democratic fundraiser Tony Rezko on 16 of 24 corruption charges. The Republicans are attempting to show that Rezko had close links to Obama although the probe was more closely connected to the administration of Illinois Democratic Governor Rod Blagojevich. If Rezko becomes a centerpiece of the GOP campaign against Obama, expect Democrats to resurrect John McCain's role as one of the infamous "Keating Five" US Senators. McCain was tarnished in the corruption and bribery investigation of failed Lincoln Savings and Loan chief Charles Keating in 1989.

Previously published in the Wayne Madsen Report.

Copyright © 2008 WayneMadenReport.com

Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist and nationally-distributed columnist. He is the editor and publisher of the Wayne Madsen Report.

Link:http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3349.shtml

Fact is his birth record is suspicious and it could well be he was born in Indonesia and his Mother sent him to Hawaii to live with his Grandparents later.

[Arctic907]

There is no issue with McC. Congress recently passed a law about it - both parties - to remove any doubt. I know that immigration law has changed over the years, but I thought that having a parent who was a US citizen is sufficient to confer citizenship at birth.

[mjno7777]

Thanks. I am not very good at blogging. But I try!

I always miss things because people don't date their title or put enough info in the title. It just is a pet peeve of mine.

[Annie]

There is no issue with McC. Congress recently passed a law about it - both parties - to remove any doubt. I know that immigration law has changed over the years, but I thought that having a parent who was a US citizen is sufficient to confer citizenship at birth.


No. Don't think so. Helps to have an American parent to get immigration into the US but I believe they would have to then become an American citizen. Perhaps they are looking in the wrong files - perhaps they should be checking the Immigration records for Obamama

[Mrsawd]

some thing stinks like hell if no birth certificate gets released also If the kenya paper says was born over there then change it then they must know !





He probably knows this will be one more down fall for him ! this one alone would kick his ass !

[Viktoriya]

I still wonder why Obama is not releasing it.

There is no sensitive information on Birth Certificate: parent’s names, place and date of birth, doctor name. No SSN.
Why hide?
Is he running to be president or not?
If it is true and he was born in Hawaii before they became states, may be he is not eligible to be President.

I actually want to know who he is.

[EH]

No. Don't think so. Helps to have an American parent to get immigration into the US but I believe they would have to then become an American citizen. Perhaps they are looking in the wrong files - perhaps they should be checking the Immigration records for Obamama

Having one parent as a US citizen qualifies to have citizenship. I know many people in this predicament.

[Eridon]

I was at another blog (http://www.hcsfjm.com/comments6.html) and found this interesting article about OB may not be elegible to be President. Please read! http://word.truthintheword.org/archives/1430

Wow! What do we do with this?

[Patricia GA]

I thought that in one of the Rev Manning vidoes or somewhere the question was brought up if Obama's parents were really married when he was born.

[Annie]

Having one parent as a US citizen qualifies to have citizenship. I know many people in this predicament.

It does but there have to be records substantiating that. So what I am saying is - they have been searching Hawaii for a birth certificate.... They have found one in Mobassa, Kenya.

So if that is the one and only birth certificate and as his Mother was an American - though his Father was Kenyan - For him to then arrive in America and become a naturalized citizen there would have to be a different set of records - other than a birth certificate - around somewhere. Immigration? Citizenship? They have been searching the wrong departments.

Patricia:I thought that in one of the Rev Manning vidoes or somewhere the question was brought up if Obama's parents were really married when he was born.

However his father had a wife in Kenya so if they were married it wasn't legal.

[Karen Keefe]

aceepts PA e-mail re: voter suppression reported by Hillary supporters.

Here'a rule I'd like to see DNC break. The GOP oughta be all over this.

BO has broken rules and laws since Chicago. Let's out-lawyer him for once and send him packing.

[Perry Logan]

It would be TOO FUNNY if the voters got what they wanted through a technicality!

[lynfreedom]

Either I missed his discussion when I answered the door or he has not said yet. Did say that Jim Johnson, heading Obamas vp search has been on hot seat since yesterday. Apparently, he has been getting sweetheart deals from countrywide finance (5 w/below avg market rates) he guy also used to be over Fannie Mae when they did not pay taxes.
Countrywide the group that Obama has been criticizing. Now Obama saying Johnson does not work for me. Hannity, and apparently McCain came out too, said that just because someone is not getting paid does not mean they are not working for you when they are leading up a project for you.

[Eridon]

aceepts PA e-mail re: voter suppression reported by Hillary supporters.

Here'a rule I'd like to see DNC break. The GOP oughta be all over this.

BO has broken rules and laws since Chicago. Let's out-lawyer him for once and send him packing.

Do you have an address for Arlen Specter? Might as well put it here so we can jump on this.

[deniseds]

It would be TOO FUNNY if the voters got what they wanted through a technicality!

No that would be a miracle. I still believe in them and pray and hope that one will happen in November.:)

[Mrsawd]

very good possibility that he was not born in Hawii or if he was was not born in 1961 was born in 1959 before they were USA !If He was born when His mom was sixteen ?? that is a rule breaker also ! Obama is running scared ! some thing is up !

This should be sent to every media and delegate and super delegate ! along with the site that I placed in other thread earlier today !!

[Optixmom]

I still wonder why Obama is not releasing it.

There is no sensitive information on Birth Certificate: parent’s names, place and date of birth, doctor name. No SSN.
Why hide?
Is he running to be president or not?
If it is true and he was born in Hawaii before they became states, may be he is not eligible to be President.

I actually want to know who he is.

He was born in 1961 and Hawaii became a state in 1959.

[LarryMac]

Natural Born Citizen Act Summary


PURPOSE: To define the term “natural born Citizen” as used in the Constitution to include three categories:

(1) Any person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,
(2) Any person born outside the United States to a U.S. citizen parent or parents who are eligible to transmit citizenship, and
(3) Any person adopted by the age of 18 by a U.S. citizen parent or parents who are otherwise eligible to transmit citizenship to a biological child.


All the rest of that has gone by the wayside and not applicable.

Ref: http://www.jcics.org/natural%20born%20summary%20(word).doc

[Eridon]

I just called Hillary Clinton's campaign headquarter at 703-469-2008. I was told that others were calling about the same thing.

She assured me that anyone running for Pres. is rigorously checked out for this, and that "there is no doubt that he is a U.S. citizen."

Of course, this is from a receptionist who answers the phone, not a lawyer on Hillary's team who actually saw the blog.

[Viktoriya]

He was born in 1961 and Hawaii became a state in 1959.


Thank you, but I like to see the source.

[SantaCruzen]

I always miss things because people don't date their title or put enough info in the title. It just is a pet peeve of mine.

There are posting rules. Please read them so we can maintain some order. Otherwise. we cannot accomplish our Goals.

[Santiago]

I was married in Hawaii and all birth and marriage records are sealed per state law.

[lynfreedom]

Having one parent as a US citizen qualifies to have citizenship.

Actually that is not true unless naturalized.
foreign soil needs two parents of US citizenship

The Fourteenth Amendment mentions two types of citizenship: citizenship by birth and citizenship by law (naturalized citizens): "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Persons born in the United States, and persons born on foreign soil to two U.S. parents, are born American citizens and are classified as citizens at birth under 8 USC 1401.

in order to be a "natural born citizen," a person must be born in the United States; otherwise, he is a citizen "by law" and is therefore "naturalized

[Mrsawd]

BUT Obama could release it ! No Matter what ! Must no be legal to run for President !

[Santiago]

BUT Obama could release it !

Yes!

[RayinAR]

BUT Obama could release it ! No Matter what ! Must no be legal to run for President !

And it makes me wonder what is up by him not releasing it. Remember he was big about Hillary releasing her tax returns the turned around and refused to release his.

[Viktoriya]

There is no issue with McC. Congress recently passed a law about it - both parties - to remove any doubt. I know that immigration law has changed over the years, but I thought that having a parent who was a US citizen is sufficient to confer citizenship at birth.

nop.

Naturalized citizen.

Place of birth is important.

[Viktoriya]

Having one parent as a US citizen qualifies to have citizenship. I know many people in this predicament.

but can you run for prez?

[HILLARYCLINTONRULES]

OMG IS THIS FOR REAL!!!! :eek:

[SoCal4Hillary]

but can you run for prez?THAT's the point here--thanks for bringing it up. The only issue with Obama that *WE* need to care about is whether he's LEGALLY able to be president based on where he was born. Citizenship is NOT the issue. WHERE he was born is.

Several weeks ago--and now I have NO IDEA where this was--I read a whole article about this topic. I may search my history to see if I can find it, as it was quite interesting.

[ginamc]

Having one parent as a US citizen qualifies to have citizenship. I know many people in this predicament.

Expat--maybe, but may not be the case in 2008. Now, I don't know what the Imm. Law currently reads, haven't looked, but I believe that since the Repubs took office, there have been changes. When I worked immigration law, used to be if you were "illegal" and married and/or had a kid, you and your kid became legal. Then, it changed to just your kid became legal. Now, I believe that the child is illegal too. That is where the deportation surge is coming from.

Probably with BO's luck and charm, there is a grandfather clause to exonerate him.

[HILLARYCLINTONRULES]

Bump!!!

[ginamc]

THAT's the point here--thanks for bringing it up. The only issue with Obama that *WE* need to care about is whether he's LEGALLY able to be president based on where he was born. Citizenship is NOT the issue. WHERE he was born is.

Several weeks ago--and now I have NO IDEA where this was--I read a whole article about this topic. I may search my history to see if I can find it, as it was quite interesting.

Yes, 99.9% sure he can run for Prez, and he's a citizen.

[Peppermint Patty]

It does but there have to be records substantiating that. So what I am saying is - they have been searching Hawaii for a birth certificate.... They have found one in Mobassa, Kenya.

So if that is the one and only birth certificate and as his Mother was an American - though his Father was Kenyan - For him to then arrive in America and become a naturalized citizen there would have to be a different set of records - other than a birth certificate - around somewhere. Immigration? Citizenship? They have been searching the wrong departments.



However his father had a wife in Kenya so if they were married it wasn't legal.

I still believe this is all a moot point. Fact, his mother was a U.S. citizen. even if he were born in Kenya, BO is (unfortunately) a U.S. Citizen by birth. He does not have to be born on US soil.

What Naturalized refers to his someone born outside of the US, immigrating here then becoming a naturalized citizen. Like Arnold Schwartenegger. He is a naturalized citizen. Which is why he cannot run for POTUS.

I don't know why anyone is making a deal out of this. Now if his mother were not a US citizen, then that would be different. Altho, if he was born on US soil that makes him a US citizen, why do you think so many pregnant illegals struggle to get here to give birth in America? Because their baby will be a US citizen even if both parents are, say, Mexican.

[HILLARYCLINTONRULES]

Everybody Spread This!!!

[SoCal4Hillary]

Okay, take a look at these links.

More on "Natural born citizen" - McCain and Obama (http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C1126750129/E20080305175848/index.html)

Ensuring McCain’s Citizenship - What’s in it for Obama? (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/storyPrint.aspx?8f9ebef4-027e-424b-a639-d8459868991c)

"Natural born citizen" status "not a frivolous issue" - Olson researches for McCain (http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C1126750129/E20080227172316/index.html)

McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

By the way, credit for finding all those links goes to this forum post from March 5: (Mar 5, 2008): "Is Obama a natural born citizen and eligible to be POTUS?" (Hawaiian Independence Blog) (http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=10618)

[SoCal4Hillary]

I still believe this is all a moot point. Fact, his mother was a U.S. citizen. even if he were born in Kenya, BO is (unfortunately) a U.S. Citizen by birth. He does not have to be born on US soil.Patrice, you're confusing two separate--and, in this case, EXTREMELY different issues.

In order to become POTUS, you must have been BORN on American soil; citizenship isn't the issue here. That's why it's a big deal, because if Obama really wasn't born on American soil, he's not eligible for POTUS (as if there weren't already plenty of OTHER good reasons!).

[kyforhillary]

I read somewhere awhile back that Hawaii is actually still a soveriegnty when this was discussed previously. There was a picture of this big Hawaiian dude with a crown on. Apparently some there dispute the statehood. I didn't follow up though.

[ginamc]

I still believe this is all a moot point. Fact, his mother was a U.S. citizen. even if he were born in Kenya, BO is (unfortunately) a U.S. Citizen by birth. He does not have to be born on US soil.

What Naturalized refers to his someone born outside of the US, immigrating here then becoming a naturalized citizen. Like Arnold Schwartenegger. He is a naturalized citizen. Which is why he cannot run for POTUS.

I don't know why anyone is making a deal out of this. Now if his mother were not a US citizen, then that would be different. Altho, if he was born on US soil that makes him a US citizen, why do you think so many pregnant illegals struggle to get here to give birth in America? Because their baby will be a US citizen even if both parents are, say, Mexican.

Right. I live 150 miles from the Mexico border, that is THE way most kids become legal, and men/women marry to become legal. Except that is what Repubs want changed. I don't know if, indeed, the law has been changed or not -- I haven't kept up recently with that particular aspect of the law.

[Peppermint Patty]

Believe me, I would grasp at anything that would prevent him from being POTUS, but here's what I found in researching this subject:

Eligibility for public office
A person who becomes a U.S. citizen through naturalization is not considered a natural-born citizen. Consequently, naturalized U.S. citizens are not eligible to become President of the United States or Vice President of the United States. For example, as of 2008, the U.S. Secretary of Labor (Elaine Chao) and the U.S. Secretary of Commerce (Carlos Gutierrez) cannot succeed to the presidency because they became U.S. citizens through naturalization. Ordinarily, the Secretary of Commerce and the Secretary of Labor are tenth and eleventh in the presidential line of succession, as established by the United States Constitution and the Presidential Succession Act. The highest-ranking naturalized people to have been excluded from the Presidential Line of Succession were Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright, each of whom would have been fourth (as Secretary of State) had they been natural-born citizens.

Whether this restriction applies to children born to non-US citizens but adopted as minors by US citizens is a matter of some debate, since the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 is ambiguous as to whether acquisition of citizenship by that route is to be regarded as naturalized or natural-born. Those who argue that the restriction does not apply point out that the child automatically becomes a citizen even though violating every single requirement of eligibility for naturalization, and thus the case falls closer to the situation of birth abroad to US citizens than to naturalization. This interpretation is in concert with the wording of the Naturalization Act of 1790, that "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens", which does not draw a distinction between biological children and adopted children, even though the process of adoption was certainly well known at the time.

In fact, the phrase "natural born Citizen" is not defined anywhere in the Constitution itself and its interpretation has never been the subject of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. Thus, some argue that even those born abroad to US citizens are not eligible to ascend to the Presidency, since an act of the United States Congress such as the Naturalization Act may not overrule the Constitution (see "Natural born citizen" as presidential qualification). Thus far, presidential candidates George W. Romney (born in Mexico), and Barry Goldwater and John McCain (born in U.S. territories), were never seriously challenged on the basis of their "natural-born" citizenship, but no candidate falling under this classification has ever actually become President, and therefore the question must be regarded as not having been finally decided.



What do you think?

[Peppermint Patty]

More on this:

US constitutional definition
The United States Constitution does not define the term "natural born citizen"; however, it does confer on Congress the power: "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization."

Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution contains the clause:

“ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ”

Additionally, the 12th Amendment to the Constitution states that: "[N]o person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."

It is thought the origin of the natural-born citizen clause can be traced to a July 25, 1787, letter from John Jay to George Washington, presiding officer of the Constitutional Convention. John Jay wrote: "Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen." There was no debate, and this qualification for the office of the Presidency was introduced by the drafting Committee of Eleven, and then adopted without discussion by the Constitutional Convention.


[edit] US presidential candidates born outside the US
"The constitutional wording has left doubts about whether those born on foreign soil are on an equal footing with those whose birth occurred inside the country's borders, and whether they have the same rights."[1] Though every president and vice president to date (as of 2008) has either been a citizen at the adoption of the Constitution, or else born in a U.S. state or Washington D.C.[2], a number of presidential candidates have been born elsewhere.[3]

Barry Goldwater, who ran as the Republican party nominee in 1964, was born in Arizona while it was still a U.S. territory. Although Arizona was not a state, it was a fully organized and incorporated territory of the United States, making it debatable whether or not he was born outside the United States.[4]

George Romney, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 1968, was born in Mexico to U.S. parents. Romney’s grandfather emigrated to Mexico in 1886 with his three wives and children after Utah outlawed polygamy. Romney's parents retained their U.S. citizenship and returned to the United States in 1912. Romney was 32 years old when he arrived in Michigan.

John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the presumptive Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the U.S. military base Coco Solo in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents.[5]


[edit] US legislation and legal arguments
The requirements for citizenship and the very definition thereof have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, under the first naturalization law: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."[6][7] This was addressed by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Dred Scott case as a form of naturalization.[8] The Dred Scott case, however, was overturned by the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868. The Fourteenth Amendment mentions two types of citizenship: citizenship by birth and citizenship by law (naturalized citizens): "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

All persons born in the United States, except those not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. government (such as children of foreign diplomats) are citizens under the Fourteenth Amendment. Persons born in the United States, and persons born on foreign soil to two U.S. parents, are born American citizens and are classified as citizens at birth under 8 USC 1401. There is some debate over whether persons who were born US citizens and are classified as citizens at birth under U.S. law should also be considered citizens "by birth," or whether they should all be considered to be "naturalized." There is also some debate over whether there is a meaningful legal distinction between citizens "at birth" and citizens "by birth" since U.S. law makes no such distinction, nor does the Fourteenth Amendment use the term "at birth." Current U.S. statutes define certain individuals born overseas as "citizens at birth."[9] One side of the argument interprets the Constitution as meaning that a person either is born in the United States or is a naturalized citizen. According to this view, in order to be a "natural born citizen," a person must be born in the United States; otherwise, he is a citizen "by law" and is therefore "naturalized."[10] Current State Department policy reads: "Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."[11] However, this does not affect those who are born abroad to U.S. citizens and who otherwise meet the qualifications for citizenship at birth.[12]



And more at the Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen#.22Natural_born_citizen.22_as_preside ntial_qualification

[ginamc]

Patrice, you're confusing two separate--and, in this case, EXTREMELY different issues.

In order to become POTUS, you must have been BORN on American soil; citizenship isn't the issue here. That's why it's a big deal, because if Obama really wasn't born on American soil, he's not eligible for POTUS (as if there weren't already plenty of OTHER good reasons!).

SoCal -- I see your point. As a U.S. Senator, BO's credentials have been checked a hundred times over. Therefore, is there any indication from the time he ran for office of any discrepancy or issue with him not being born in U.S. on U.S. soil? Or, even just news reported about this back several years ago?

[Hillarysmygirl08]

they are still recognized as a state lol. I don't know if he is an American Citizen or not but to have him decleared ineligible would be wonderful

[Hillarysmygirl08]

not if he was born in 1961

[HILLARYCLINTONRULES]

Obamabot ^^^^^^^^

[samkm]

Do not waste energy on this topic.

The article quoted in the middle on this was written by a BO-favorer.

Sensationalism is good for TV business, so the story gains traction.

BO's side will use this to trash McCain and call him racist.

Stay on the policy difference, ideology extremism of BO and the clear lack of solutions, questionable character, lack of principles, and questionable loyalty to USA.

[PuppyDogMom]

I was married in Hawaii and all birth and marriage records are sealed per state law.

I thought birth records and marriage records were a matter of public information. How can they be sealed?

[Kbentleyis]

Guys, I think this information is wrong. Not sure, but the contents and dates are not accurate. We'd need more clarification on this.

[Jayling]

http://www.diversityj.com/images/ModHat.jpg

[Charlie Brown]

This is what I have been asking for a while now.... Where was he born?????

[SusanfromPA]

This was posted on Gretawire awhile back:

Comment by Army DAV
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Why Obama will not release his birth certificate

The real reason his birth certificate won’t be released until after the election is that he would be disqualified due to the fact that his mother needed to have waited 3 more years for him to have automatic U.S. citizenship. Please read on….

It seems that Barack Obama is not qualified to be president afterall for the following reason:

Barack Obama is not legally a U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth,
which falls between “December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986″ . Presidential office requires a natural-born
citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. citizen parents, which of course is what exempts
John McCain though he was born in the Panama Canal.

US Law very clearly stipulates:

“…If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided
in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.”

Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 when Obama was born,
which means though she had been a U.S. citizen for 10 years,
(or citizen perhaps because of Hawai’i being a territory) the mother fails the test for
being so for at least 5 years **prior to** Barack Obama’s birth, but *after* age 16. It doesn’t matter *after* . In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. citizenship.
At most, there were only 2 years elapsed
since his mother turned 16 at the time of Barack Obama’s birth when she was 18 in Hawai’i.

His mother would have needed to have been 16+5= 21 years old, at the time of Barack Obama’s birth for him to have been a natural-born
citizen. As aformentioned, she was a young college student at the time and was not. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at that time his mother would have needed to have waited to have him as the only U.S. Cizen parent.

Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office.

*** Naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of President. ***

Though Barack Obama was sent back to Hawai’i at age 10, all the other info does not matter because his mother is the one who needed
to have been a U.S. citizen for 10 years prior to his birth on August 4, 1961, with 5 of those years being after age 16.
Further, Obama may have had to have remained in the country for some time to protect any citizenship he would have had,
rather than living in Indonesia.

Now you can see why Obama’s aides stopped his speech about how we technically have more than 50 states, because it would have led to this discovery.

This is very clear cut and a blaring violation of U.S. election law

IF he is, indeed, NOT a qualified U.S. citizen under the law to run for president,
how can he be REMOVED!?

[santafegal]

Just release the birth certificate. But at this point it would probably be a doctored up version. :rolleyes:

[EH]

It does but there have to be records substantiating that. So what I am saying is - they have been searching Hawaii for a birth certificate.... They have found one in Mobassa, Kenya.

So if that is the one and only birth certificate and as his Mother was an American - though his Father was Kenyan - For him to then arrive in America and become a naturalized citizen there would have to be a different set of records - other than a birth certificate - around somewhere. Immigration? Citizenship? They have been searching the wrong departments.



However his father had a wife in Kenya so if they were married it wasn't legal.

I know that if you are born in the US to foreign parents, your birth certificate will suffice. If however you are born abroad to a US parent or parents, you have to have a US consular statement which attests the registration of birth. Otherwise you don't qualify as a US citizen.

[Mrs L]

Fact is his birth record is suspicious and it could well be he was born in Indonesia and his Mother sent him to Hawaii to live with his Grandparents later.[/QUOTE]

OH PLEASE LET IT BE TRUE
LET IT BE TRUE!!!

YOU KNOW THE DNC ARE CROOKED ENOUGH TO COVER IT UP THEY FOUND THEIR MESSIAH.
WHAT A WONDERFUL GIFT THAT WOULD BE.

[PhillyGuy1]

Patrice, you're confusing two separate--and, in this case, EXTREMELY different issues.

In order to become POTUS, you must have been BORN on American soil; citizenship isn't the issue here. That's why it's a big deal, because if Obama really wasn't born on American soil, he's not eligible for POTUS (as if there weren't already plenty of OTHER good reasons!).


But I've never seen anything to suggest that his mother ever traveled to Kenya.
Anyone know anything about this?


PhillyGuy1

[ssmith]

the fraud has DUAL citizenship with KENYA....

that's why he is not releasing this birth certificate! it brings up the topic of his DUAL citizenship

[PhillyGuy1]

Fact is his birth record is suspicious and it could well be he was born in Indonesia and his Mother sent him to Hawaii to live with his Grandparents later.

His father and mother met while in college in Hawaii. It should be easy enough to confirm that she gave birth while still attending classes in Hawaii.


PhillyGuy1

[EH]

the fraud has DUAL citizenship with KENYA....

that's why he is not releasing this birth certificate! it brings up the topic of his DUAL citizenship

That would be the end for him!

[HILLARYCLINTONRULES]

what a sissy

[PAangelRN]

I do not think the place of birth is significant. His mother was a US citizen at birth so his birth certificate would have to show that neither parent is a US citizen. JMcC was born in Panama to US citizens.

I think your mother/father has to have lived in the US for a certain amount of years before you were born.

[Peppermint Patty]

Okay, take a look at these links.

More on "Natural born citizen" - McCain and Obama (http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C1126750129/E20080305175848/index.html)

Ensuring McCain’s Citizenship - What’s in it for Obama? (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/storyPrint.aspx?8f9ebef4-027e-424b-a639-d8459868991c)

"Natural born citizen" status "not a frivolous issue" - Olson researches for McCain (http://www.hawaiiankingdom.info/C1126750129/E20080227172316/index.html)

McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

By the way, credit for finding all those links goes to this forum post from March 5: (Mar 5, 2008): "Is Obama a natural born citizen and eligible to be POTUS?" (Hawaiian Independence Blog) (http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=10618)

Hmmm, the more I read the more muddied the waters become! So even McCain could be in trouble here!?

According to another link above that referred to yet another link, here is something to think about:

... On June 18, a little over a month before Jay's letter, Alexander Hamilton submitted a "sketch of a plan of government which 'was meant only to give a more correct view of his ideas, and to suggest the amendments which he should probably propose ... in ... future discussion.' "40 Article IX, section 1 of the sketch provided: "No person shall be eligible to the office of President of the United States unless he be now a Citizen of one of the States, or hereafter be born a Citizen of the United States.":" Hamilton's draft, which appears to be an early version of the natural-born citizen clause, contains two distinct ideas: first, that those currently citizens will not be excluded from presidential eligibility, and second, that the President must be born a citizen. Without the modifier "natural," the essence of the text is apparent: The President need not be native born, but must be a citizen from birth.The indeterminacy of the traditional search for specific intent is evident. The records of the Convention provide no answer as to whether children born abroad of citizens might be considered natural born. The laws of Britain tell us only that they would have been natural-born subjects of Britain and, arguably, only up until independence. Nor does the Jay letter or the Hamilton draft, without reference to subsequent naturalization statutes, tell us anything about which categories of people would be included by their phrases.

[BillDemo]

This is the reason Schwarzenegger can't run for President. He's a US Citizen but he was born outside the country.

Back in 2004: Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, an Orange County, Calif., Republican and longtime friend of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, introduced a constitutional amendment yesterday to allow foreign-born Americans who have been citizens for 20 years to run for president.

"There's a number of people I know whose career opportunities would be expanded by this constitutional amendment," Rohrabacher said, mentioning Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, a Canadian-born Democrat, and House Intelligence Committee Chair Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., who was born in the Netherlands. "One of them might be from Austria."

It's that Austrian birth certificate that makes Schwarzenegger, 57, ineligible to become president, despite holding a job that has been a launching pad for many presidential runs.

Fearful of the potential influence of foreign powers, America's founding fathers included a provision in the U.S. Constitution requiring that a president be born in the United States. But some in both parties think the restriction is outdated.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002036961_amendment16.html

[HILLARYCLINTONRULES]

Obama is evil

[Peppermint Patty]

But I've never seen anything to suggest that his mother ever traveled to Kenya.
Anyone know anything about this?


PhillyGuy1

PhillyGuy1 I love your siggy!!!!!!!!! LOL

[EH]

Expat--maybe, but may not be the case in 2008. Now, I don't know what the Imm. Law currently reads, haven't looked, but I believe that since the Repubs took office, there have been changes. When I worked immigration law, used to be if you were "illegal" and married and/or had a kid, you and your kid became legal. Then, it changed to just your kid became legal. Now, I believe that the child is illegal too. That is where the deportation surge is coming from.

Probably with BO's luck and charm, there is a grandfather clause to exonerate him.


It's on the state department's official website regarding citizenship and immigration. One US citizen parent will get you citizenship, provided that the parent lived in the US for at least 14 years.

[PAangelRN]

I just called Hillary Clinton's campaign headquarter at 703-469-2008. I was told that others were calling about the same thing.

She assured me that anyone running for Pres. is rigorously checked out for this, and that "there is no doubt that he is a U.S. citizen."

Of course, this is from a receptionist who answers the phone, not a lawyer on Hillary's team who actually saw the blog.

Well they haven't checked out Obama enough! I still believe with all his ant-American / Racist ties he should be deported out of this country let alone run for President!

[diane]

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. - XIV Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Citizenship is one of the most coveted gifts that the U.S. government can bestow, and the most important immigration benefit that USCIS can grant. Most people become U.S. citizens in one of two ways:

By birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or By Naturalization."


Anyone BORN in the US is a US Citizen. If one is born in another country but both parent's are US Citizens then the child can be claimed a US Citizen. So Obama was born in Hawaii--that' makes him a US citizen. If someone has proof that he was not born there then I'm sure it would have surfaced by now.

[Johnf]

I was at another blog (http://www.hcsfjm.com/comments6.html) and found this interesting article about OB may not be elegible to be President. Please read! http://word.truthintheword.org/archives/1430

Incredible...you might be on to something here...

Bruce,Tyson,TIW,Truth,Religion,Politics,Opinion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Obama Hussein: My birth certificate is off limits too.Obama Hussein isn’t eligible to be President
Obama HUSSEIN is not QUALIFIED to be the President, we now know that he is not ELIGIBLE to be President under American law. This is a great comment to a post over at Michelle Malkin’s blog:

On June 10th, 2008 at 8:37 am, legendx3 said:
Barack Obama is not legally a U.S. Natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between “December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986? . Presidential office requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. Citizen parents, which of course is what exempts John McCain though he was born in the Panama Canal. US Law very clearly stipulates: “…If only one parent was a U.S. Citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.” Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. Citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 when Obama was born, which means though she had been a U.S. Citizen for 10 years, (or citizen perhaps because of Hawai’i being a territory) the mother fails the test for being so for at least 5 years **prior to** Barack Obama’s birth, but *after* age 16. It doesn’t matter *after* . In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. Citizenship. At most, there were only 2 years elapsed since his mother turned 16 at the time of Barack Obama’s birth when she was 18 in Hawai’i. His mother would have needed to have been 16+5= 21 years old, at the time of Barack Obama’s birth for him to have been a natural-born citizen. As aformentioned, she was a young college student at the time and was not. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at that time his mother would have needed to have waited to have him as the only U.S. Cizen parent. Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office.

*** Naturalized citizens are ineligible to hold the office of President. *** Though Barack Obama was sent back to Hawaii at age 10, all the other info does not matter because his mother is the one who needed to have been a U.S. Citzen for 10 years prior to his birth on August 4, 1961, with 5 of those years being after age 16. Further, Obama may have had to have remained in the country for some time to protect any citizenship he would have had, rather than living in Indonesia. Now you can see why Obama’s aides stopped his speech about how we technically have more than 50 states, because it would have led to this discovery. This is very clear cut and a blaring violation of U.S. Election law. I think the Gov. Of California would be very insterested in knowing this if Obama were elected President without being a natural-born U.S. Citizen, and it would set precedence. Stay tuned to your TV sets because I suspect some of this information will be leaking through over the next several days…

DAWG! This guy really is about flaunting his illegal behavior in all of our faces, isn’t he?

This entry was posted on Tuesday, June 10th, 2008 at 8:04 am and is filed under Misc. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.





http://word.truthintheword.org/archives/1430

[nette60]

I guess the question is...why is Obama making a big deal of it....if everything is on the up and up.. No doubt he is a US citizen by virtue of his mother. So why would he be secretive about it. I married in Hawaii and had a daughter born there. No big deal.....I don't understand the big deal about this....unlless Obama isn't who he says he is. Maybe he was adopted by his indonesian step father or maybe he wasn't born in Hawaii after all...maybe he just doesn't want to be caught in another lie....

[SusanfromPA]

The law that would exempt Obama from this was changed in 1986, but was not retroactive so it apparently would apply to him :)
http://word.truthintheword.org/archives/1430

[EH]

Most people become U.S. citizens in one of two ways:

By birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or By Naturalization."


Anyone BORN in the US is a US Citizen. If one is born in another country but both parent's are US Citizens then the child can be claimed a US Citizen. So Obama was born in Hawaii--that' makes him a US citizen. If someone has proof that he was not born there then I'm sure it would have surfaced by now.

One parent with a US citizenship is sufficient. A friend of mine gave birth here last month and immediately went to the consulate to register her son's birth. It's being completed as we speak.

[BillDemo]

Also, Wikipedia indicates that BOTH parents need to be US citizens.

Persons born in the United States, and persons born on foreign soil to two U.S. parents, are born American citizens and are classified as citizens at birth under 8 USC 1401.

If Obama was born in Kenya, he doesn't satisfy that requirement.

[xfiles]

I don't think it works that way. Osam bin Laden then could have a child with an American woman and raise him in caves, indoctrinate him with anit-American hate (kind of like Obama) and that child could come to the US and run for president with the claim he is a US citizen.

He might be qualified to be naturalized but couldn't run.

I always miss things because people don't date their title or put enough info in the title. It just is a pet peeve of mine.

[lanesharon]

What if the lady we are being told was his mother, was not his mother!

[RAFREE]

No. Don't think so. Helps to have an American parent to get immigration into the US but I believe they would have to then become an American citizen. Perhaps they are looking in the wrong files - perhaps they should be checking the Immigration records for Obamama

I am an American, I married a Canadian and we had a son born in Canada as a Canadian citizen. Here is how it works. My son was eligible for U.S. citizenship because I am an American citizen, AND my son was born BEFORE I was out of the country x number of years...AND I lived on U.S. soil the majority of years required before he was born too. This still does NOT ensure he is an American. He must APPLY for U.S. citizenship and then go through the normal process as anyone else. All the above things will help him and he is most likely to be given U.S. status IF he applies before a certain age, after that different rules apply.

So even if you are born to a U.S. citizen out of the country it's not necessarily a given that you too are a U.S. citizen. There is a whole rule book of checks and balances even depending upon the country you were born in to a U.S. citizen.

[indigo]

What did Hannity say about the secrecy of Obama's birth certificate??? Did he speculate as to why Obama is unwilling to release it? Is this something we should be blogging everywhere to demand that he release it due to the conflicting stories out there??????

[Kbentleyis]

I too believe if you are born to an US Citizen, you are considered an US Citizen. No matter where the birth took place.

[floorrunner]

I still wonder why Obama is not releasing it.

There is no sensitive information on Birth Certificate: parent’s names, place and date of birth, doctor name. No SSN.
Why hide?
Is he running to be president or not?
If it is true and he was born in Hawaii before they became states, may be he is not eligible to be President.

I actually want to know who he is.

Actually if he was born before Hawaii became a US state. It wouldn't matter because Hawaii was a US Territory. The real question is was he a natural born US citizen. At the time that John McCain was born, The Panama Canal Zone was a US Territory. What congress did was just reaffirm that.

[BillDemo]

I too believe if you are born to an US Citizen, you are considered an US Citizen. No matter where the birth took place.

I think it's more complicated than that.

If you're born on foreign soil to 2 US Citizens, you are "natural born".
If you're born on foreign soil to only 1 US Citizen, your are "naturalized".

Natural Born citizens are eligable to be President.
Naturalized citizens are not eligable.

[kjcanon]

Here's what keeps sticking like a sore thumb to me...

"Persons born in the United States, and persons born on foreign soil to two U.S. parents."

TWO parents. Having only one US citizen (his mom) makes him a "naturalized" citizen. Am I missing something?????

[RAFREE]

I too believe if you are born to an US Citizen, you are considered an US Citizen. No matter where the birth took place.

NO! I am an American who has a Canadian son and he is NOT an American yet. There is a big process to go through.

[EH]

I think it's more complicated than that.

If you're born on foreign soil to 2 US Citizens, you are "natural born".
If you're born on foreign soil to only 1 US Citizen, your are "naturalized".

Natural Born citizens are eligable to be President.
Naturalized citizens are not eligable.

I might be wrong here, but I think that being natural born applies only to those children whose parents are in the Foreign Service or working for other US government interests. If the parents just decide to freely emigrate abroad, I don't think their children are eligible for natural born status. Again, I may be wrong.

[JMS825]

I am more wondering if Obama had a felony in his past when he admited to using cocaine cause a felony would prevent you from running just like it suppose to prevent you from voting

[lanney]

I think B-certificate is to get his father name. It should not be issue. B-certificate is used to get passport. He had passport. State dept people had seen his file, I think it is clear.

I think something else is going on, why Hannity is after? It may be dot to something else.

[BillDemo]

I did a little research. The first Congress made this correction to the constitution over this issue:

"The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States"

Obama may run into problems with the wording here - "Citizens" is interpreted to mean both parents are citizens. Not just one.

[Johnf]

US Supreme Court: Citizenship
In giving meaning to citizenship, the Supreme Court has often had to look beyond the “four corners” of the Constitution. With no definition of citizenship in the framers' text, the Court until after the Civil War decided its citizenship cases using a mix of ideas drawn from international law and natural law. The most famous antebellum attempt to define the limits of citizenship—Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857)— ultimately provided a rare occasion on which the amendment process reversed a constitutional decision of the Supreme Court. Since 1868, when the Fourteenth Amendment defined United States citizenship, the Court's decisions have been more concerned with safeguarding citizenship against unjust deprivation than with elaborating the content of U.S. citizenship.

The Constitution referred to but did not define U.S. citizenship. Article I required that representatives and senators be citizens of the United States. Article II further said that the president must either be a citizen of the United States “at the time of Adoption” or be a “natural born” citizen. Article III gave federal courts jurisdiction in cases involving citizens, among others. Article IV provided that “citizens of each state” would have “all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the Several States.”

What, then, would make a person a United States citizen? The framers' stipulation that the president be a “natural born” citizen is an implicit rule of jus soli. According to this ancient doctrine—the term means “right of land or ground”—citizenship results from birth within a territory. This contrasts with jus sanquinis, or right of blood, by which nationality derives from descent. Citizenship based on place of birth was a feudal remnant, in tension with principles of liberal theory that rest political legitimacy on a foundation of consent. Birth‐right citizenship, however, offered several practical advantages: it helped clarify property rights; it promoted immigration; it avoided jurisdictional conflicts; and it eased fears of massive expatriation in wartime.

Not until the slavery crisis did the principle of jus soli become an explicit part of the Constitution—in spite of what the Supreme Court had ruled. Chief Justice Roger B. Taney'sopinion in Dred Scott denied that a person of African descent could be a citizen of the United States. The Fourteenth Amendment exploded this decision by declaring that “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

The Fourteenth Amendment did not settle the matter entirely in favor of birthright citizenship. In Elk v. Wilkins (1884), for example, the Supreme Court ruled that Native Americans born in the United States were not automatically citizens. As members of tribes, they were not wholly “subject to the jurisdiction” of the federal government. Congress, however, later reversed the result of the Wilkins decision.

One of many Supreme Court cases arising out of late nineteenth‐century discrimination against persons of Chinese ancestry, United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), broadly interpreted jus soli. The Fourteenth Amendment's rule of citizenship by birth within U.S. territory made Wong Kim Ark a citizen, even though the parents could not legally be naturalized.

Once defined in 1868, citizenship became an operative term in four more amendments. In particular, the citizen's right to vote could not be denied because of race (Fifteenth Amendment); gender (Nineteenth Amendment); failure to pay a poll tax (Twenty‐fourth Amendment) or age (Twenty‐sixth Amendment). Though the Supreme Court has had many cases requiring interpretation of these amendments, the concept of citizenship per se has not been at the core of these disputes.

Despite the place of citizenship in several amendments, what is notable is the remarkably limited scope of citizenship in the Supreme Court's work. This is so since, while one must be a citizen to vote or hold federal office, most of the Constitution's key rights and liberties do not extend to citizens only. No less than the entire Bill of Rights applies to “the people”—citizen and the noncitizen alike.

The Supreme Court's interpretation of the Equal Protection Clause appears to diminish the constitutional consequence of citizenship. Beginning in 1971, the Court began to apply “strict scrutiny” to state laws affecting aliens. Under this test, the state must show that laws drawing distinctions based on citizenship serve compelling governmental interests. In Graham v. Richardson (1971), for example, the Court ruled that states could not deny welfare benefits to noncitizens based simply on their alien status. Two years later in Sugarman v. Dougall (1973), the Court created an important category of exceptions to the rule of Graham, holding that certain important public sector jobs may be set aside for a state's citizens. The Court's continued reliance on Graham, however, casts doubt on citizenship classifications drawn by the states.

Other decisions, however, have stressed the unique, valued, and protected position of citizenship. Schneiderman v. United States (1943), for instance, dealt with denaturalization. Schneiderman became a United States citizen in 1927. Since he was a member of the Communist party from 1924 and, after naturalization, became active in party leadership, the government moved to have his citizenship stripped. The government argued that Schneiderman's political conduct—though he had never been arrested—failed to show the attachment to constitutional principles that Congress required for naturalization. In ruling for Schneiderman, the Supreme Court held that a naturalized person could not lose citizen status without the clearest justification, construing the facts and law as far as is reasonably possible in the citizen's favor. In Trop v. Dulles (1958), the Court affirmed the importance of citizenship by holding that a citizen by birth could not be expatriated for desertion from the military in wartime. Chief Justice Earl Warren wrote for a four‐person plurality that loss of citizenship would amount to cruel and unusual punishment banned by the Eighth Amendment.

The Supreme Court's decisions have tended to reflect the Constitution's own ambivalence about citizenship. Despite its status as fundamental law, the Constitution did not explicitly define criteria for membership in the political community it created. The Court's antebellum attempt to fill this void broke apart on the fault line of slavery. While the Court has upheld birthright citizenship and has erected high barriers to deprivation of citizenship, its equal protection decisions have tended to underscore the Constitution's tendency toward a narrow conception of citizenship closely tied to voting and office holding.

.

See also Alienage and Naturalization; Equal Protection; Privileges and Immunities

Bibliography

Joseph H. Carens, Who Belongs? Theoretical and Legal Questions about Birthright Citizenship in the United States, University of Toronto Law Journal 37 (1987): 413–443.
Peter Schuck and Rogers Smith, Citizenship Without Consent: Illegal Aliens in American Politics (1985)
— Patrick J. Bruer

http://www.answers.com/topic/citizenship?cat=biz-fin


Acquisition of citizenship
There are various ways in which a person can acquire United States citizenship, either at birth or later on in life.


[edit] Birth within the United States
Main article: Birthright citizenship in the United States of America
The Supreme Court has never explicitly ruled on whether children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents are entitled to birthright citizenship via the 14th Amendment,[2] although it has generally been assumed that they are.[3]. This has become controversial, as some non-residents enter the US as illegal aliens with the intent to give birth to children. A birth certificate is considered evidence of citizenship. This differs from most western nations; countries of the European Union which awarded citizenship to children born there (such as Ireland) closed this possibility.

In the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898), the Supreme Court ruled that a person who

is born in the United States
of parents who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of a foreign power
whose parents have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States
whose parents are there carrying on business and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity of the foreign power to which they are subject
becomes, at the time of his birth, a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the 14th amendment of the Constitution.


[edit] Through birth abroad to two United States citizens
See also: jus sanguinis
In most cases, one is a U.S. citizen if both of the following are true:

Both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth
At least one parent lived in the United States prior to the child's birth.
A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of his or her citizenship. He or she may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have his or her citizenship recognized.


[edit] Through birth abroad to one United States citizen
For persons born on or after November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born;
The citizen parent lived at least 5 years in the United States before his or her child's birth; and
At least 2 of these 5 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.
A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of his or her citizenship. Such a person may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have a record of his or her citizenship. Such documentation is often useful to prove citizenship in lieu of the availability of an American birth certificate.

Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law as it existed at the time of the individual's birth controls.


[edit] Naturalization

A judge swears in a new citizen. New York, 1910A person who was not born a US citizen may acquire US citizenship through a process known as naturalization.


[edit] Eligibility for naturalization
To become a naturalized United States citizen, one must be at least eighteen years of age at the time of filing, a legal permanent resident of the United States, and have had a status of a legal permanent resident in the United States for five years less 90 days before they apply (this requirement is reduced to three years less 90 days if they (a) acquired legal permanent resident status (b) have been married to and living with a citizen for the past three years and (c) the spouse has been a US citizen for at least three years prior to the applicant applying for naturalization.) They must have been physically present for at least 30 months of 60 months prior to the date of filing their application. Also during those 60 months if the legal permanent resident was outside of the U.S. for a continuous period of 6 months or more they are disqualified from naturalizing (certain exceptions apply for those continuous periods of six months to 1 year). They must be a "person of good moral character", and must pass a test on United States history and government.[4][5] Most applicants must also have a working knowledge of the English language.[4] There are exceptions, introduced in 1990, for long-resident older applicants and those with mental or physical disabilities.[6][7] This requirement for an ability to read, write, and speak English is not regarded as being too difficult, since the test requires that applicants read and write in English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law

Is it possible Obama is not a US citizen in terms of becoming a President.

[Mrs L]

First of all John McCain is considered to be American by birth.
Both parents were American and a US Military Base no matter where it is is considered the USA and when there you are on US Land.

Even if Obama is an American there is a difference when it comes to being a President of the US.
There may be certain requirements that we don't know about, since his father was not an American, it won't mean that he isn't, but it may mean he is not eligible to be the President. That may be something we are overlooking.

Perhaps to be President both parents must be American? There could be something in the fine print about becoming President that we don't know about.

[Johnf]

Eligibility for public office
A person who becomes a U.S. citizen through naturalization is not considered a natural-born citizen. Consequently, naturalized U.S. citizens are not eligible to become President of the United States or Vice President of the United States. For example, as of 2008, the U.S. Secretary of Labor (Elaine Chao) and the U.S. Secretary of Commerce (Carlos Gutierrez) cannot succeed to the presidency because they became U.S. citizens through naturalization. Ordinarily, the Secretary of Commerce and the Secretary of Labor are tenth and eleventh in the presidential line of succession, as established by the United States Constitution and the Presidential Succession Act. The highest-ranking naturalized people to have been excluded from the Presidential Line of Succession were Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright, each of whom would have been fourth (as Secretary of State) had they been natural-born citizens.

Whether this restriction applies to children born to non-US citizens but adopted as minors by US citizens is a matter of some debate, since the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 is ambiguous as to whether acquisition of citizenship by that route is to be regarded as naturalized or natural-born. Those who argue that the restriction does not apply point out that the child automatically becomes a citizen even though violating every single requirement of eligibility for naturalization, and thus the case falls closer to the situation of birth abroad to US citizens than to naturalization. This interpretation is in concert with the wording of the Naturalization Act of 1790, that "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens", which does not draw a distinction between biological children and adopted children, even though the process of adoption was certainly well known at the time.

In fact, the phrase "natural born Citizen" is not defined anywhere in the Constitution itself and its interpretation has never been the subject of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. Thus, some argue that even those born abroad to US citizens are not eligible to ascend to the Presidency, since an act of the United States Congress such as the Naturalization Act may not overrule the Constitution (see "Natural born citizen" as presidential qualification). Thus far, presidential candidates George W. Romney (born in Mexico), and Barry Goldwater and John McCain (born in U.S. territories), were never seriously challenged on the basis of their "natural-born" citizenship, but no candidate falling under this classification has ever actually become President, and therefore the question must be regarded as not having been finally decided.


[edit] Expeditious naturalization of children
Effective 1 April 1995, a child born outside the U.S. to a U.S. citizen parent, if not already a citizen by birth because the parent does not meet the residency requirement (see above), may qualify for expeditious naturalization based on the physical presence of the child's grandparent in the U.S. In general the grandparent should have spent 5 years in the U.S., 2 years of which after the age of 14.

The process of naturalization, including the oath of allegiance, must be completed before the child's 18th birthday. It is not necessary for the child to be admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident.[12]

This page was last modified on 8 June 2008, at 20:02. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law

[JMS825]

I am more wondering if Obama had a felony in his past when he admited to using cocaine cause a felony would prevent you from running just like it suppose to prevent you from voting

[indigo]

I blogged on this months ago. Obama co-sponsored a bill about natural citizenship. We know it wasn't being magnanomous to McCain, but it was probably to cover himself.

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/storyPrint.aspx?8f9ebef4-027e-424b-a639-d8459868991c

I just sent an email aabout this to our media guys

[RAFREE]

I did a little research. The first Congress made this correction to the constitution over this issue:



Obama may run into problems with the wording here - "Citizens" is interpreted to mean both parents are citizens. Not just one.

You are correct. I am an American, my sons father is NOT. I had a son in Canada but, my son was not automatically considered American. There is a long list of checks and balances for him to become a full U.S. citizen too. I had to have lived in the U.S. x number of years, I could NOT have been out of the country x number of years and a long line of rules. I have to file before my son is a certain age for him to become a full U.S. citizen and nothing is totally a given in this situation.

If both parents are American that is a whole other thing.

[RAFREE]

I am more wondering if Obama had a felony in his past when he admited to using cocaine cause a felony would prevent you from running just like it suppose to prevent you from voting

If he had been charged with anything the Chicago machine would have scrubbed most of it. I'm certain of that.

[Amy Dugan]

cannot wait for Hannity and Colmes

[BillDemo]

Some other possibilities, since birth certs contain a lot more info.

1. Some states record "marital status" on the certificate: Obama's parents were never legally married.

2. Some states record "religion" on the certificate: Obama was a "Muslim" at birth.

3. Some states record "race" on the certificate: Obama was... ????

Or maybe ... and I'm hoping this is it ... Obama's birth certificate has been lost and there is no record of his birth at all. So he can't run for President.

[RAFREE]

THAT's the point here--thanks for bringing it up. The only issue with Obama that *WE* need to care about is whether he's LEGALLY able to be president based on where he was born. Citizenship is NOT the issue. WHERE he was born is.

Several weeks ago--and now I have NO IDEA where this was--I read a whole article about this topic. I may search my history to see if I can find it, as it was quite interesting.

EXACTLY, and why won't he release this? Is he working on some documents that he doesn't have yet OR does he have fake ones or questionable ones instead of what he should have?? This story has some legs but, it needs to be completely vetted and right away.

[Ginger4Hillary]

"Qualification, disqualification and common practice
Article Two of the Constitution sets the principal qualifications to be eligible for election as President. A Presidential candidate must:
be a natural-born citizen of the United States;
be at least thirty-five years old;
have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.
Additionally, the Constitution disqualifies some people from the Presidency. Under Article One of the United States Constitution, the Senate has the option, upon conviction, of disqualifying impeached individuals from holding other federal offices, including the Presidency.[4] Under the Twenty-Second Amendment, no one can be elected President more than twice. The Twenty-Second Amendment also specifies that anyone who serves more than two years as President or Acting President, of a term for which someone else was elected President, can only be elected President once. Under the Twelfth Amendment a person who is no longer eligible to be President may not be Vice President either." This info from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#Qualification.2C_di squalification_and_common_practice

[Eridon]

O. was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu. His father was Kenyan, mother born in Kansas. Hawaii became the 50th state in Aug., 1959.

[thebword]

To qualify for President of The United States the rules are with NO EXCEPTIONS:

*You must be 35 years of age

*You must be a Natural born citizen, independent of your parent citizenship.
(you can not be a "naturalize" citizen to be President of The United States of America. No matter WHAT status of citizenship one or both parents hold)

*If born out of the country, You Must born on "U.S. soil" outside The United States. Meaning a U.S. Embassy or a U.S. Military base, Naval ship. Sen. McCain is a Natural born citizen under this rule.

*You must have been a Resident of The United States for 14 years. So if you leave you must have at least 14 years of residency in The United States of America to qualify for the Presidency.

[ScottVA]

I do not think the place of birth is significant. His mother was a US citizen at birth so his birth certificate would have to show that neither parent is a US citizen. JMcC was born in Panama to US citizens.

NOT SO..... IF OBAMA WAS NOT BORN ON US SOIL..... then regardless of his parents citizen status he can't be President.... he would be considered a Naturalized Citizen for President qualification purposes.......not the same as being born on US SOIL.... This rule was added to the Constitution by our forefathers because they didn't want someone from lets say England (who could be a sympathizer) trying to become a US President...
McCain was a different case because he was BORN on a US military installation in Panama which has the same designation as US Soil....

I do know there is some discrepancy with which hospital he was "supposedly" born out in Honolulu..... Too bad Hawaii doesn't have an open public records law so people can go and research it... I mean who's to say his mother didn't have him in Kenya or elsewhere and snuck him in and registered him somehow as being born in Hawaii. Back then it was VERY EASY to get the records fudged..... one of my cousins isn't even my cousin (just by marriage) but my Uncle was able to bring him from Germany in the early 60s and "get a lot of things done" making him a US Citizen without ever having adopted him.

[thebword]

SoCal -- I see your point. As a U.S. Senator, BO's credentials have been checked a hundred times over. Therefore, is there any indication from the time he ran for office of any discrepancy or issue with him not being born in U.S. on U.S. soil? Or, even just news reported about this back several years ago?

You do not have to be a Natural Born Citizen to be a Senator. You DO NEED to be a Natural (NOT Naturalized) Born Citizen for President, or to be in line to the Presidency. So any checking for his previously held offices would not have had to meet the same standard.

But, I agree, I'm sure it's been checked. And unless information has been forged, Obama meets the qualifications.

I think the reason he doesn't want it released, is simply because his parents were not married.

[ScottVA]

You do not have to be a Natural Born Citizen to be a Senator. You DO NEED to be a Natural (NOT Naturalized) Born Citizen for President, or to be in line to the Presidency. So any checking for his previously held offices would not have had to meet the same standard.

But, I agree, I'm sure it's been checked. And unless information has been forged, Obama meets the qualifications.

I think the reason he doesn't want it released, is simply because his parents were not married.

They DO NOT CHECK that heavily for a US Senate or Governor candidate.... because that requirement isn't necessary....... You only have to be born IN THE US for President...... Arnold Schwartzenegger was born in Austria and he's Govenor of CA.

[ScottVA]

You do not have to be a Natural Born Citizen to be a Senator. You DO NEED to be a Natural (NOT Naturalized) Born Citizen for President, or to be in line to the Presidency. So any checking for his previously held offices would not have had to meet the same standard.

But, I agree, I'm sure it's been checked. And unless information has been forged, Obama meets the qualifications.

I think the reason he doesn't want it released, is simply because his parents were not married.

Im inclined to agree.........but if his reluctance to release this shouldn't be an issue for him...... seems he's hiding something and someone needs to press him on it to find out what it really is he's hiding.....

[SBSJR13]

This is huge if in fact Kenya has a birth certificate for him, and Hawaii doesnt... And actually Hawaii could have been fixed after the fact, if Kenya has a birth certificate for him then hes DONE! This needs to be addressed right away as if he was not born here then he needs to go back to Chicago.. He may not even know the actual facts of it, but a Kenya birth certificate would do it... Time for the real nominee to get what is hers.. PERIOD!!!

[Morgan]

This is huge if in fact Kenya has a birth certificate for him, and Hawaii doesnt... And actually Hawaii could have been fixed after the fact, if Kenya has a birth certificate for him then hes DONE! This needs to be addressed right away as if he was not born here then he needs to go back to Chicago.. He may not even know the actual facts of it, but a Kenya birth certificate would do it... Time for the real nominee to get what is hers.. PERIOD!!!


I would like to know his full name on his birth certificate and if he was born in Kenya.

[thebword]

Some other possibilities, since birth certs contain a lot more info.

1. Some states record "marital status" on the certificate: Obama's parents were never legally married.

2. Some states record "religion" on the certificate: Obama was a "Muslim" at birth.

3. Some states record "race" on the certificate: Obama was... ????

Or maybe ... and I'm hoping this is it ... Obama's birth certificate has been lost and there is no record of his birth at all. So he can't run for President.

Of course, the BIG ISSUE he's has been trying to side step from the beginning RELIGION. Now, if his birth certificate lists his parents and his religion as Muslim, it doesn't matter if he never practiced. The Muslim community would consider him Muslim (they already do, since his father was Muslim), and American's who haven't given a damn before will sure pay attention when that news breaks. Funny, that RELIGION is playing such a big role for him, considering more then likely he is what his mother was an agnostic at best or atheist. He just "pick up" a religion that worked for Chicago politics for expediency.

[ScottVA]

Of course, the BIG ISSUE he's has been trying to side step from the beginning RELIGION. Now, if his birth certificate lists his parents and his religion as Muslim, it doesn't matter if he never practiced. The Muslim community would consider him Muslim (they already do, since his father was Muslim), and American's who haven't given a damn before will sure pay attention when that news breaks. Funny, that RELIGION is playing such a big role for him, considering more then likely he is what his mother was an agnostic at best or atheist. He just "pick up" a religion that worked for Chicago politics for expediency.

Actually under Muslim law as long as your father is a Muslim that makes you one too....

[Musicdude]

You can order a copy of his birth certificate here if he was born in Hawaii...

https://www.ehawaii.gov/doh/vitrec/exe/vitrec.cgi $4.25 is the fee.

If they can't find record of his birth there, then..... :eek: :confused:

[SeattleDem]

Remember the passport flap where someone was caught looking at all the passport records for Hillary and Obama (a training exercise...yeah right.) MSNBC was making a big fuss about it and then. . . it all just went away! We never heard anything else about it! Hmmmmmmmm

[indigo]

Even though Obama refusses to release his birth certificate, wouldn't he have had to produce a copy of it when he got married ( I know I did). There is probably a copy of it where he applied for a marraiage license or at his former college or law school. He is hiding something.

[Michelle M]

Speaking of Obama's mother, where IS she?

(Other than under the bus with the rest of the family, I mean?)

How come we never see her? Is it because he doesn't want anyone to ask her any questions?

[LucyTN]

Speaking of Obama's mother, where IS she?

(Other than under the bus with the rest of the family, I mean?)

How come we never see her? Is it because he doesn't want anyone to ask her any questions?She died quite a while ago.

[Eridon]

O. was born on Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu. Hawaii became the 50th state in Aug., 1959. O. was BORN ON AMERICAN SOIL, and his mother was born in Kansas.

[Eridon]

NOT SO..... IF OBAMA WAS NOT BORN ON US SOIL..... then regardless of his parents citizen status he can't be President.... he would be considered a Naturalized Citizen for President qualification purposes.......not the same as being born on US SOIL.... This rule was added to the Constitution by our forefathers because they didn't want someone from lets say England (who could be a sympathizer) trying to become a US President...
McCain was a different case because he was BORN on a US military installation in Panama which has the same designation as US Soil....

I do know there is some discrepancy with which hospital he was "supposedly" born out in Honolulu..... Too bad Hawaii doesn't have an open public records law so people can go and research it... I mean who's to say his mother didn't have him in Kenya or elsewhere and snuck him in and registered him somehow as being born in Hawaii. Back then it was VERY EASY to get the records fudged..... one of my cousins isn't even my cousin (just by marriage) but my Uncle was able to bring him from Germany in the early 60s and "get a lot of things done" making him a US Citizen without ever having adopted him.

For the third time, Obama was born on US soil -- Honolulu, Hawaii -- TWO YEARS AFTER IT BECAME A STATE. Therefore, he was born in America. His mother was also born in the USA, Kansas. Go to Wikipedia, it's all there.

[JamieKuuipo]

I still wonder why Obama is not releasing it.

There is no sensitive information on Birth Certificate: parent’s names, place and date of birth, doctor name. No SSN.
Why hide?
Is he running to be president or not?
If it is true and he was born in Hawaii before they became states, may be he is not eligible to be President.

I actually want to know who he is.

OBAMA WAS BORN IN 1961 AUG 4 ACCORDING TO AOL. NEWS PAGE TODAY
http://www.aol.com

HAWAII BECAME A STATE IN 1959 BEFORE THAT HAWAII WAS CONSIDERED US TERRATORY OF HAWAII

ANY ONE BORN IN HAWAII PRIOR TO BECOMMING A STATE IS CONSIDERED
A U S CITIZEN.
HOWEVER , WE CAN NOT OBTAIN PROOF OF HIS BIRTH IN HAWAII BECAUSE HAWAII BIRTH RECORDS ARE SEALED. ONLY IMMEDIATE FAMILY
CAN REQUEST A BIRTH CERTIFICATE IN PERSON. WITH AN AUTHORIZING SIGNATURE AND REASON FOR THE REQUEST.

HAWAII BIRTH CERT, DEATH, RECORDS. MARRAGE RECORDS ECT.WHERE KEPT BY MISSIONARIES, MAINLY THE MORMANS 1800-TO WELL INTO THE 1950S UNTIL THE STATE AND HOSPITAL TOOK OVER INFORMATION. THE RECORDS COULD HAVE BEEN MADE UP AS FAR AS FATHER OR MOTHER OR RACE, AS PROOF WAS NOT ASKED FOR.OR IN MOST CASES NOT GIVEN. MOST PEOPLE DID NOT GO TO HOSPITAL TO GIVE BIRTH. MOST PEOPLE IN HAWAII WERE IMMIGRANTS WHO DID NOT HAVE SSN OR THERE PROOF OF BIRTH.
BASICLY YOU COULD HAVE SAID ANY ONE WAS YOUR MOTHER OR FATHER BACK THEN, AGAIN WELL IN TO THE 60S ALSO THERE WAS NO PROOF ASKED FOR. THEY GIVE YOU A SHEET AND U FILL IT OUT. THAT IS WHAT IS RECORDED. THERE WAS A REPORT THAT I SAW SAID OBAMA WAS BORN
AT QUEENS HOSPITAL. QUEENS HOSPITAL WAS A HOSPITAL BUILT BY QUEEN KAPIOLANI FOR PEOPLE WITH OUT MONEY. FUNDED BY DONATIONS. BACK IN 1961 IT WAS STILL VERY RUAL.

HOW EVER ITS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THEY STATED HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII THAN SPENT 4 YEARS IN INDONISIA. RETURNED TO HAWAII
AND ATTENDED PONAHOU A VERY VERY EXPENSIVE PRIVITE SCHOOL.
THEY HAVE GRADES K-12TH AND AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER HAS ALWAYS BEEN KNOW TO BE EXTREMLY LIBRAL. OR IN THOSE DAYS WE CALLED THEM WEIRD.

SINCE HE SAID HE WAS BROUGHT UP BY HIS GRANDPARENT WHO WHERE WHITE. THERE IS NO TELLING WHO COULD HAVE FILLED OUT THE INFORMATION. IN HAWAII THERE WHERE NOT A LOT OF RULES EVERY ONE JUST KIND OF DID THERE OWN THING.

DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD FIND OUT MORE THAN WHAT HE'S TELLING US????

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHO HE STAYED WITH IN INDONISIA AND WHY????

[MissDeeCee]

Hi All!
A few things I have seen on other sites regarding BO's birth certificate being "off limits":

* Since his father was Kenyan he is automatically a Kenyan citizen (dual citizenship). He has up to 10 years after he reaches the age of majority to reaffirm this by going to Kenya etc... he went to Kenya in 1983 to mourn his father (thank you Mrsawd for your earlier posts for that one!)
* He would have needed a passport (which requires a BC) to go to Indonesia was it a US or Kenyan passport?
* He was adopted by his Indonesian step dad (took his name) so he would have to have produced a birth certificate.... but also - would this have made him an Indonesian citizen?
* Hawaii won't release a certified copy of the BC but will give copies to family, etc... for school registration, employment etc... So there are many people out there that MUST have a copy.... school records? law school?

[Musicdude]

For the third time, Obama was born on US soil -- Honolulu, Hawaii -- TWO YEARS AFTER IT BECAME A STATE. Therefore, he was born in America. His mother was also born in the USA, Kansas. Go to Wikipedia, it's all there.
Thanks for the facts amidst the hysteria. :)

[Bad Kitty]

I have to beg the question that if he is a US citizen then why won't he just show someone his birth certificate. No big deal right?

[Musicdude]

I have to beg the question that if he is a US citizen then why won't he just show someone his birth certificate. No big deal right? Perhpas it's regarding what his real birth name might be. Just a guess.

[Bad Kitty]

Perhpas it's regarding what his real birth name might be. Just a guess.

Well if his real name is Osama bin Laden, I think we all have the right to know that. :D

[Annie]

Expat--maybe, but may not be the case in 2008. Now, I don't know what the Imm. Law currently reads, haven't looked, but I believe that since the Repubs took office, there have been changes. When I worked immigration law, used to be if you were "illegal" and married and/or had a kid, you and your kid became legal. Then, it changed to just your kid became legal. Now, I believe that the child is illegal too. That is where the deportation surge is coming from.

Probably with BO's luck and charm, there is a grandfather clause to exonerate him.


There is a Governor in California by name of Arnold Schwatzenneger who wants to be President - he has been trying to get the laws changed so that a person born outside of the US who has become a citizen can be President. So far it hasn't happened and it won't happen. Doesn't matter if your Mother was American if your Dad was Kenyan or whatever else. You can become a Citizen but if you weren't born in America or in what constitutes American soil - you aint going to get to be President.

Hey just think Winston Churchill could have run for President as his Mother was American.... He was born in the UK to an English father and became Prime Minister, as we all know, of the UK, Ireland and its provenances.

So many lies with Obama he is probably frantically trying to have a birth certificate doctored up as we type.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3349.shtml

[foreigner4hillary]

However his father had a wife in Kenya so if they were married it wasn't legal.


I've always said he was a bastard. Only way he could have avoided being a muslim. Another way is to check if he's been erm....circumcised....

[Musicdude]

Well if his real name is Osama bin Laden, I think we all have the right to know that. :D
*lol* But, there's actaully a rumor that his first name is Muhammed, not Barack.

[Dendy]

Well if his real name is Osama bin Laden, I think we all have the right to know that.
There was a rumor a wile ago that his real name is Barack Mohamed Hussein Obama. If that’s the case, I can see why he’s refusing to release his birth certificate.

[Annie]

Speaking of Obama's mother, where IS she?

(Other than under the bus with the rest of the family, I mean?)

How come we never see her? Is it because he doesn't want anyone to ask her any questions?


Obama's Mother Ann Dunham died in Kenya. She sent her son to live with her parents in Hawaii. The birth certificate found for Barack Obama, jr., in Kenya' says he was born in Mombassa, Kenya on August 4, 1961.

Seems the Republicans sent a research team to Kenya to get all the info they could and they turned this up. Could be he has another birth certificate in Hawaii - seems odd though.

The writer of the article is a Wayne Madsen who does not support the repubs and is probably an obama supporter trying to dissuade people from believing the story when the repubs bring it out for the General. This is what I suspect. They are up to everything and think he will get away with this as well. We shall see if true, or not.

I think this info should be sent to Greta and Hannity
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3349.shtml
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Annie]

I've always said he was a bastard. Only way he could have avoided being a muslim. Another way is to check if he's been erm....circumcised....


:D:D:D Ask Larry S..... lol!

[Dendy]

The birth certificate found for Barack Obama, jr., in Kenya' says he was born in Mombassa, Kenya on August 4, 1961.
:eek: OMG!
Is this real?

[JamieKuuipo]

His father and mother met while in college in Hawaii. It should be easy enough to confirm that she gave birth while still attending classes in Hawaii.


PhillyGuy1

HIS MOTHER MET WHILE SHE WAS IN KANSAS HOW COULD SHE BE ATTENDING CLASSES IN HAWAII??

[xfiles]

This is another big issue as far as I'm concerned.

Clearly he did not like or respect whites (per his books) and he was conflicted about his mother. At the time of her illness (ovarian cancer), he was estranged from his mother and did not visit her.

I find this very telling in many respects.

Obama is screwed up, still seeking his "identity" and should not be president!

Speaking of Obama's mother, where IS she?

(Other than under the bus with the rest of the family, I mean?)

How come we never see her? Is it because he doesn't want anyone to ask her any questions?

[Tom Terrific]

What if the lady we are being told was his mother, was not his mother!

I think it was called "The Omen" ...

[JamieKuuipo]

Of course, the BIG ISSUE he's has been trying to side step from the beginning RELIGION. Now, if his birth certificate lists his parents and his religion as Muslim, it doesn't matter if he never practiced. The Muslim community would consider him Muslim (they already do, since his father was Muslim), and American's who haven't given a damn before will sure pay attention when that news breaks. Funny, that RELIGION is playing such a big role for him, considering more then likely he is what his mother was an agnostic at best or atheist. He just "pick up" a religion that worked for Chicago politics for expediency.

THERE WAS A LOT OF LIES GONING ON :
HIDE THE FACT THERE WERE NOT MARRIED
HIDE THE FACT RACE
HIDE THE FACT
HIDE THE FACT MOTHERS AGE
HIDE THE FACT WHERE HE WAS BORN AND TO WHO?

[xfiles]

How do we know this about his birth in Kenya? Link?


:eek: OMG!
Is this real?

[MaryKay]

I do not think the place of birth is significant. His mother was a US citizen at birth so his birth certificate would have to show that neither parent is a US citizen. JMcC was born in Panama to US citizens.

It's not the place of birth. In order to be president, as per our constitution, you have to show that you are an American citizen. What's the problem he's having, oh one of 400?

[Michelle M]

Thanks -- I hadn't realized his mother was deceased.

I just read the Time magazine article.

I did notice the mother was on food stamps.

Quite frequently in order to receive aid and food stamps, expectant mothers will write "unknown" under the name of the father on the birth certificate so they can continue to receive financial support, even though (of course) they know who the father is.

It could be as simple as that. (Or, it could be he was born elsewhere or has another name/religion listed.)

[JamieKuuipo]

For the third time, Obama was born on US soil -- Honolulu, Hawaii -- TWO YEARS AFTER IT BECAME A STATE. Therefore, he was born in America. His mother was also born in the USA, Kansas. Go to Wikipedia, it's all there.

WE DON'T HAVE THE PROOF HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII?????????

[MaryKay]

There is no issue with McC. Congress recently passed a law about it - both parties - to remove any doubt. I know that immigration law has changed over the years, but I thought that having a parent who was a US citizen is sufficient to confer citizenship at birth.

It is. My cousin was born in France, because both her parents were in the US Air Force and stationed over there. She had duel citizenship until she was 18, and then had to declare. I think there are distinctions as to what country you're born in if the do the duel thing... Not 100% sure.

[MaryKay]

Obama's Mother Ann Dunham died in Kenya. She sent her son to live with her parents in Hawaii. The birth certificate found for Barack Obama, jr., in Kenya' says he was born in Mombassa, Kenya on August 4, 1961.

Seems the Republicans sent a research team to Kenya to get all the info they could and they turned this up. Could be he has another birth certificate in Hawaii - seems odd though.

The writer of the article is a Wayne Madsen who does not support the repubs and is probably an obama supporter trying to dissuade people from believing the story when the repubs bring it out for the General. This is what I suspect. They are up to everything and think he will get away with this as well. We shall see if true, or not.

I think this info should be sent to Greta and Hannity
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3349.shtml
------------------------------------------------------------------


Should be easy enough to prove with hospital records. Even in 61, they had micofilm. Somebody should just contact the hospital where he was born. I'm not sure the privacy act covers records back that far.

[Mrsawd]

I believe this is one Problem !
Obama may run into problems with the wording here - "Citizens" is interpreted to mean both parents are citizens. Not just one

other Question is !
In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. Citizenship. At most, there were only 2 years elapsed since his mother turned 16 at the time of Barack Obama’s birth when she was 18 in Hawai’i. His mother would have needed to have been 16+5= 21 years old, at the time of Barack Obama’s birth for him to have been a natural-born citizen. As aformentioned, she was a young college student at the time and was not. Barack Obama was already 3 years old at that time his mother would have needed to have waited to have him as the only U.S. Citizen parent. Obama instead should have been naturalized, but even then, that would still disqualify him from holding the office.

I believe I read that his mother moved like 14 times !
adopted by Step Father in another Country (indonesia) what was name after adopted ! does this make a 3rd citizenship !
I know I have heard Barry ? Birth
Barry Hussein Obama
Barack Hussein Obama Jr.
Barack Hussain Mohammad Obama ??
Baraq Hussein Mohammod Obama
This is the name at the Top of this story Jihadist Obama HUSSEIN
Barry Soetoro
So How many other names are there and which one was he really given at Birth ?
Also I saw where some one was suppose to have submitted for laws to change so some one knows he is hiding some thing !


There is this story http://word.truthintheword.org/archives/1430
This is another issue
Barack Obama is not legally a U.S. Natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between “December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986? . Presidential office requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. Citizen parents,



Then there was the story that Kenya had released then changed later that Obama was born in Kenya !
http://www.usafricaonline.com/chido.obama08houston.html

Obama's Mother Ann Dunham died in Kenya. She sent her son to live with her parents in Hawaii. The birth certificate found for Barack Obama, jr., in Kenya' says he was born in Mombassa, Kenya on August 4, 1961


So if he was adopted even if he would have been a us born citizen wouldn't the fact of the adoption change every thing ?
adoption records , then Marriage records . school records .
there should be all kinds of records out there if you can find all the different schools and all the different names he went by ! I am almost positive they will more than likely prove many different ways that he may not be allowed to run for President !

[suerw]

However his father had a wife in Kenya so if they were married it wasn't legal.

I've seen this question somewhere other than in the statement by Rev. Manning, I think. ..... But since Hawaii was a territory of the United States, would that matter as long as O was born in Hawaii?

[Arctic907]

I think his mother died in HI. She went back there when she was dx'd with cancer according to something I read elsewhere if I recall correctly. BHO was on the mainland at the time of his mother's death. I also remember reading somewhere that his mother was receiving foodstamps while she pursued an advanced degree.

[Artists4Hillary]

I do not think the place of birth is significant. His mother was a US citizen at birth so his birth certificate would have to show that neither parent is a US citizen. JMcC was born in Panama to US citizens.

I think the law about that was different in the year (s) he was born. My father is an attorney, and he told me that, but I forgot what the laws were. I'll have to ask him again. Something like the US citizen parent had to be residing in the state the child was born for 5 years.

That's why the GOP is on this.

[JamieKuuipo]

Should be easy enough to prove with hospital records. Even in 61, they had micofilm. Somebody should just contact the hospital where he was born. I'm not sure the privacy act covers records back that far.

NOTHING THERE IS DONE LIKE ANY WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD, ITS ALL
BACKWORDS, THE MICROFILM IS AT THE LIBRARY AND NOT ALL FILM IS
AVAILABLE, THE HOSPITAL RECORD IF THERE IS ONE WOULD HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE HEALTH DEPT. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN REPORTED DAYS AND EVEN YEARS LATTER.

REMEMBER HAWAII JUST BECAME A STATE IN 1959. THE STATE WAS RUN LIKE A MOM AND POP STORE.

REMEMBER THAT HAWAII HAD MOSTLY IMMIGRANTS,FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.AND ALOT OF JAPANEESE LIVING THERE, AND DURING THE WAR THERE WERE MANY BIRTHS THAT WAS JUST RECORDED ON A PIECE OF PAPER. THINGS WHERE NOT ORGANIZED AT ALL AND IN 1961 THERE WHERE ONLY PARCIALLY ORGANIZED IF YOU WERE BORN IN THE HOSPITAL IT WAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PARENTS TO RECORD BIRTH TO HEALTH DEPT.

PEOPLE WHO HAD THINGS TO HIDE, JUST LIED.


THE STATE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING THE RECORDS AT THE DEPT OF HEALTH. ONE OFFICE VERY FEW WORKERS AND THINGS MOVE SLOW.

TO GET A RECORD FROM THAT FAR BACK COULD TAKE WEEKS, BUT AGAIN
NO RULES BACK THEN ANY ONE COULD HAVE WROTE ANY THING THEY WANTED, THERE ARE NO CHECKS AND BALANCES.
ONLY HIS WORD HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII. AND WE ALL KNOW HOW GOOD
THAT IS.

BOTTOM LINE IN ALL THIS IS THAT WE DON'T BELIEVE HIM IN HIS BIRTH
HIS LIFE, WE ALL FEEL THIS GUY HAS SOMTHING TO HIDE. WE ALL
BELIEVE HE IS LYING ABOUT HIS MOTHER OR FATHER OR WHERE HE WAS BORN HE COULD HAVE BEEN BREED TO BE THE TERRORIST SECRET WEAPON FROM THE INSIDE. WE ARE ON THIS SUBJECT BECAUSE NONE OF US TRUST
HIS SPEECHES. OR HIS WORDS. THERE HAS GOT TO BE SOMTHING WE CAN FIND.

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING IN INDONISIA???
HE DOSE HAVE A HALF SISTER IN HAWAII, WHO TEACHES SCHOOL I OFTEN WONDERED WHERE WAS SHE BORN, HALF SISTER HOW??

[Mrsawd]

He definately is hiding some thing ! I believe this is will tell alot of storys !

I alo believe if some one put in for law change then they already are aware but it is little to late for Barry Barack Baraq Hussein Muhammad Obama Soetoro


I don't believe he will pas this test !!

[BillDemo]

I've seen this question somewhere other than in the statement by Rev. Manning, I think. ..... But since Hawaii was a territory of the United States, would that matter as long as O was born in Hawaii?

Time Magazine pretty much said his father was already married so the marriage wasn't legal. Daddy Obama was a bigamist and an adulterer...

[RAFREE]

Time Magazine pretty much said his father was already married so the marriage wasn't legal. Daddy Obama was a bigamist and an adulterer...

There is something fishy here. I have got copies my birth certificate from outside the country in a matter of DAYS....why would it take weeks in this case?? :S :S :S That makes no sense. It's not like he was born in 1820 or something. :confused:

[Morgan]

HIS MOTHER MET WHILE SHE WAS IN KANSAS HOW COULD SHE BE ATTENDING CLASSES IN HAWAII??


Wrong they met in Hawaii. She got pregnant at 18.

When she was around 12 the family moved to Washington.

[Mrs L]

Barack Obama's Birth Certificate Stirs Controversy
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/814409/barack_obamas_birth_certificate_stirs.html
June 10
The latest controversy stirring in the camp of the Democratic Presidential candidate revolves around a piece of paper. Barack Obama has thus far abstained from releasing his birth certificate. While in the past many would say such a small matter is an ultimately unimportant matter, in this case it has caused what seems to be a major ruckus among many voters. With the rumors dispelled earlier in Obama's fight for the candidacy coming back into play, some have become skeptical, nervous, and overall anxious over the Illinois Senator's refusal to release the document.

So why should a piece of paper cause such a major commotion? The main issue revolves around the rumors associated with the Obama campaign's withholding of the document. Among them are questions of the place of Senator Obama's birth and some hidden truth behind the Senator's name.

The first rumor is that Senator Obama was actually born in Kenya. This rumor seems to have originated in an email stating to have some hidden information about the details of the Senator's birth. According to the email, Barack Obama's mother was living in Kenya at the time of his birth. The email goes on to allege that after his birth, his mother took him to Hawaii to register the birth.

The issue was raised on Snopes.com, where claims of his Kenyan birth were quickly disseminated, soon becoming claims that the non-American native was running for President in an attempt to disrupt the framework of the United States. Claims of everything from Obama being some sort of conniving secret-Muslim seeking to destroy America to his being the Anti-Christ became all the rage in online forums and blogs. Yet these claims were quickly disputed, and all but forgotten . . . until now.

Now, with the refusal to release his birth certificate, Barack Obama seems to have rekindled the flame beneath this rumor. The benefit and drawback of releasing the document, then, fall along the same lines: releasing it could either prove these claims true, or quickly and efficiently prove them false.

[Elijah4Hillary]

Since he has a U.S. passport and presumably a U.S. driver's license, I have to assume he has a birth certificate that says he was born in the U.S. (Hawaii). The question for me is, is that birth certificate legitimate, or is it some type of forgery? I mean, does anyone know how difficult it would have been back then to get a birth certificate on the black market? People seem to get phony IDs even today all the time.

Obama's refusal to release his birth certificate definitely raises a TON of suspicion. If he has nothing to hide, release the damn thing already.

[RAFREE]

Barack Obama's Birth Certificate Stirs Controversy
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/814409/barack_obamas_birth_certificate_stirs.html
June 10
The latest controversy stirring in the camp of the Democratic Presidential candidate revolves around a piece of paper. Barack Obama has thus far abstained from releasing his birth certificate. While in the past many would say such a small matter is an ultimately unimportant matter, in this case it has caused what seems to be a major ruckus among many voters. With the rumors dispelled earlier in Obama's fight for the candidacy coming back into play, some have become skeptical, nervous, and overall anxious over the Illinois Senator's refusal to release the document.

So why should a piece of paper cause such a major commotion? The main issue revolves around the rumors associated with the Obama campaign's withholding of the document. Among them are questions of the place of Senator Obama's birth and some hidden truth behind the Senator's name.

The first rumor is that Senator Obama was actually born in Kenya. This rumor seems to have originated in an email stating to have some hidden information about the details of the Senator's birth. According to the email, Barack Obama's mother was living in Kenya at the time of his birth. The email goes on to allege that after his birth, his mother took him to Hawaii to register the birth.

The issue was raised on Snopes.com, where claims of his Kenyan birth were quickly disseminated, soon becoming claims that the non-American native was running for President in an attempt to disrupt the framework of the United States. Claims of everything from Obama being some sort of conniving secret-Muslim seeking to destroy America to his being the Anti-Christ became all the rage in online forums and blogs. Yet these claims were quickly disputed, and all but forgotten . . . until now.

Now, with the refusal to release his birth certificate, Barack Obama seems to have rekindled the flame beneath this rumor. The benefit and drawback of releasing the document, then, fall along the same lines: releasing it could either prove these claims true, or quickly and efficiently prove them false.

No it's not that. I think it may be that his lineage will show him listed as not as "African" as he is claiming he is...there was some evidence from his fathers birth certificate and I'm trying to find it again that Obama's father was listed as having been more Arab than A.A. and his mother was white so they may not want the First A.A. president to turn out to be listed under "race" as Arab and not A.A. at all???? It's a possibility...he might know this would sway people and for the far right it would cause them to have a field day with it....there is sure something fishy....I do NOT think he is a muslim!! I think he has a lot of bad connections but, most muslim people are not extremists so that's not what he is covering up. It's something bigger....hmmmmmmm. How hard is it to get a damned birth certificate!!

[RAFREE]

Snopes?? Snopes used Obama's fictional books to vet the stories or the Obama campaigns' denials!!! That's the ONLY resource they used to refute anything. I looked it up!! They used quotes from Obama himself! :rolleyes:

[NYVIN4HILL08]

obbammer is hiding something!!!!!

93.5% arab....hmmmmmmmmm

[Sylvia]

I know that immigration law has changed over the years, but I thought that having a parent who was a US citizen is sufficient to confer citizenship at birth.

I believe the birth has to be registered with the US Embassy in the country where the child is born soon after the birth. I had a niece born outside of the USA two years ago and that is what they had to do. I doubt an 18 y/o would have been thinking of that.:confused:

[Eridon]

Re: the source at TIW blog:

Its about TWO different qualifications for citizenship, the one for Presidents, and the one for regular folks not running for President.

For a President, he was born on US soil; but the blog points out, his mother wasn't old enough for the other requirement. As his only American parent, she needed to have ten years over the age of 16, and she was only 18 when she became his mother.

[thebword]

NOTHING THERE IS DONE LIKE ANY WHERE

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING IN INDONISIA???
HE DOSE HAVE A HALF SISTER IN HAWAII, WHO TEACHES SCHOOL I OFTEN WONDERED WHERE WAS SHE BORN, HALF SISTER HOW??

Barack's half sister was born when Barack was about 6years old. Maya's parents by her own omission in an article in 2004 her parents divorced when she was 9 years old. Making Barack approx. 15 YEARS OLD when his Indonesian connection ended. That's a long time to have a step father who was Muslim.

http://blip.tv/file/332972

Video Podcast: Maya Soetoro-Ng, Barack's Half Sister

[thebword]

Video Podcast: Maya Soetoro-Ng, Barack's Half Sister


http://blip.tv/file/332972

[Mrsawd]

to this post
I still believe this is all a moot point. Fact, his mother was a U.S. citizen. even if he were born in Kenya, BO is (unfortunately) a U.S. Citizen by birth. He does not have to be born on US soil.


I believe that this requires both parents to be us citizens !
according to my readings

[Mrsawd]

I also believe that just the facts of all the conflicts should be enough to stop him man from running for our President !


More investigations should be being done by the fbi and the cia
here we are doing the goverments job again when indeed this is thing that evidently have been neglected or were being over looked until the right time for McCain !

[thebword]

to this post
I still believe this is all a moot point. Fact, his mother was a U.S. citizen. even if he were born in Kenya, BO is (unfortunately) a U.S. Citizen by birth. He does not have to be born on US soil.


I believe that this requires both parents to be us citizens !
according to my readings

I lived aboard for sometime when I was first married. I am a U.S. Citizen by birth, my husband is not. At the time he was not even a U.S. Citizen, so we had researched this subject carefully. You MUST be born ON U.S. Soil (embassies and military bases count) to be a NATURAL born citizen. To be President or in line to the Presidency you MUST be a NATURAL born citizen.

Now, if one of your parents is a NATURAL born citizen, and you are born outside the U.S., you're entitle to apply for and be granted U.S. Citizenship. Your parent MUST apply for your Naturalized Citizenship status, it is not automatic the parents MUST summit paperwork, pay fees, and wait the necessary time. Also, the process is not complete until the CHILD completes the process when he/she becomes of age (18).

[Annie]

Originally Posted by Mrsawd
to this post
I still believe this is all a moot point. Fact, his mother was a U.S. citizen. even if he were born in Kenya, BO is (unfortunately) a U.S. Citizen by birth. He does not have to be born on US soil. I believe that this requires both parents to be us citizens !
according to my readings


YES HE DOES HAVE TO BE BORN IN THE US ON US SOIL TO BE AMERICAN OTHER THAN IN AN AMERICAN EMBASSY ABROAD OR AMERICAN ARMED SERVICES BASE ABROAD.


I lived aboard for sometime when I was first married. I am a U.S. Citizen by birth, my husband is not. At the time he was not even a U.S. Citizen, so we had researched this subject carefully. You MUST be born ON U.S. Soil (embassies and military bases count) to be a NATURAL born citizen. To be President or in line to the Presidency you MUST be a NATURAL born citizen.

Now, if one of your parents is a NATURAL born citizen, and you are born outside the U.S., you're entitle to apply for and be granted U.S. Citizenship. Your parent MUST apply for your Naturalized Citizenship status, it is not automatic the parents MUST summit paperwork, pay fees, and wait the necessary time. Also, the process is not complete until the CHILD completes the process when he/she becomes of age (18).

Fact is it appears there has been a birth certificate found in Kenya in the city of Mobassa for HIM - and certainly not on any American base or Embassy. If his mother also had him registered in America - where are the documents to that efect and it also wouldn't matter anyway as you have to be born on American soil to run for President (including of course the aforementioned American Base/Embassy as John McCain was).

The Gop have all the information but perhaps McCain is not informed of it at this point... Send it to Bill Clinton.... lol!
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3349.shtml

[Bad Kitty]

For those of you who assume you can be born to one American parent especially a mother and that makes you a natural born citizen are incorrect. This depends on the country you are born in. In some countries, your citizenship depends on your father. This could be his case and from what I have read, his father is not American.

[Mrsawd]

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66787


He then points out Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, was 18 when Obama was born "so she wouldn't have met the requirement of five years after the age of 16."

Geraghty continues: " (Interestingly, apparently there isn't much paperwork on Obama's parents' marriage. 'Obama: From Promise to Power,' page. 27: 'Obama later confessed that he never searched for the government documents on the marriage, although Madelyn (Obama's maternal grandmother) insisted they were legally married.' Also note that Obama's father apparently was not legally divorced from his first wife back in Kenya at the time, a point of contention that ultimately led to their separation.)"




So If she was married it was not legal because Obamas Father was still Married in another Country ! Biogomy Doesn't this make the marriage Illegal !

[Mrsawd]

Just a bit more info Gathered So where did she pass away at ? Kenya or Hawaii !


STANLEY A DUNHAM
29 Nov 1942
07 Nov 1995
96826
(Honolulu, Honolulu, HI)
***-**-8522
Washington
Rootsweb.com
SS Death Index (Public Record)

[mjno7777]

Snopes?? Snopes used Obama's fictional books to vet the stories or the Obama campaigns' denials!!! That's the ONLY resource they used to refute anything. I looked it up!! They used quotes from Obama himself! :rolleyes:

Alot of OBAMABOTS use SNOPES AS the ultimate sourch to prove THAT Obama IN NOT A MUSLIM.

[mjno7777]

She must have had Obama YOUNG. I hope that doesn't mean anything, but his mom died the same day my mom did, different year.

[Hillarysmygirl08]

so how come noone knew this isnt he a Senator?

[Mrsawd]

I believe that every where we look that there are some differences being reported ?????? in my mind as to Why !!!!
The one about hi mom above was a different Birth date !

http://genealogy.about.com/od/aframertrees/p/barack_obama.htm

Ancestry of Barack Obama
From Kimberly Powell,
Your Guide to Genealogy.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii to a Kenyan father and an American mother. According to the U.S. Senate Historical Office, he is the fifth African American Senator in U.S. history and is one of the Democratic candidates for President in 2008.
>> Tips for Reading This Family Tree


First Generation:
1. Barack Hussein OBAMA was born on 4 August 1961 at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein OBAMA, Sr. of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and Ann DUNHAM of Wichita, Kansas. His parents met while both were attending the East-West Center of the University of Hawaii at Manoa, where his father was enrolled as a foreign student. When Barack Obama was two years old, his parents divorced and his father moved to Connecticut to continue his education before returning to Kenya.

When Obama was six, his mother married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian oil manager. In 1967, when Soetoro's student visa was revoked because of political unrest in Indonesia, Dunham and Barack, then in first grade, accompanied him to Jakarta, Indonesia. Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro was born after the family moved to Indonesia. Four years later she sent him back to the United States to live with his maternal grandmother.
Barack Obama graduated from Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he met his future wife, Michelle Robinson. They have two daughters, Malia and Sasha.

Second Generation (Parents):
2. Barack Hussein OBAMA Sr. was born in 1936 in Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya and died in a car crash in Nairobi, Kenya in 1982, leaving three wives, six sons and a daughter. All but one of his children live in Britain or the United States. One of the brothers died in 1984. He is buried in the village of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya.

3. Stanley Ann DUNHAM was born on 27 November 1942 in Wichita, Kansas and died 7 November 1995 of ovarian cancer.
Barack Hussein OBAMA Sr. and Stanley Ann DUNHAM were married in 1960 in Hawaii and had the following children:

1 i. Barack Hussein OBAMA, Jr.
Third Generation (Grandparents):
4. Hussein Onyango OBAMA was born about 1895 and died in 1979. Before settling down to work as a cook for missionaries in Nairobi he was a traveler. Recruited to fight for colonial power England in World War I, he visited Europe and India, and afterward lived for a time in Zanzibar, where he converted from Christianity to Islam, family members said.

5. Akumu

Hussein Onyango OBAMA had several wives. His first wife was Helima, with whom he had no children. Second, he married Akuma and they had the following children:

i. Sarah OBAMA
1. ii. Barack Hussein OBAMA, Sr.
iii. Auma OBAMA
Onyango's third wife was Sarah, the one often referred to by Barack as his "grandmother." She was the primary caregiver for Barack OBAMA Sr. after his mother, Akuma, left the family when her children were still young.
6. Stanley Armour DUNHAM was born on 23 March 1918 in Kansas and died 8 February 1992 in Honolulu, Hawaii. He is buried in Punchbowl National Cemetery, Honolulu, Hawaii.
7. Madelyn Lee PAYNE was born in 1922 in Wichita, Kansas. She currently lives in Oahu, Hawaii.

Stanley Armour DUNHAM and Madelyn Lee PAYNE were married on 5 May 1940, and had the following children:

3. i. Stanley Ann DUNHAM
Next > Great Grandparents of Barack Obama
More Famous Family Trees
George W. Bush
Amelia Earhart
Robert Lee Frost


Then you go to !

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/honolulu-hi/TF1B10QTPN0EIC73Q/p5

Obviously you haven't read his biography. He was born at Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, went to Punahou School until he graduated from high school and ended up in Chicago for law school. His mom and grandparents who raised him came from Kansas and lived here while he was growing up.
Perhaps you don't like to read? Oh, and Punahou is also my alma mater. Founded in 1842 by Congregationalist missionaries from New England. Pretty solidly American -- descended from the Pilgrims and Puritans.

[indigo]

I received an email from him. He has requested the birth certificate...and is willing to sue if it isn't released.

[Minina]

Obviously you haven't read his biography. He was born at [B]Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, went to Punahou School until he graduated from high school and ended up in Chicago for law school ... Perhaps you don't like to read?

How about this?: Harvard Law School is in Massachusetts not Chicago. :P Lots of us like to read...Just not BO's books. Don't get me wrong, I love some works of fiction; just not the ones authored by him. :)

In response to other comments, it's unlikely that the DNC would push so hard for BO to become the presidential nominee if they were unsure as to his citizenship status (naturalized vs. natural born); he's probably been "vetted" on that regard by the DNC.

If there is something fishy about this birth cert. issue, it's probably related to something else....Maybe it's the whole religion thing (though even as an atheist, I do not think that Islam, in and of itself, is any worse or better than other similar religions such as Judaism or Christianity.... Just my opinion...) Or, as someone suggested, it would be how his race (and his father's race) were recorded.

FYI: A U.S. passport WILL have info as to the place of birth of the person with the U.S. passport. Thus, a naturalized citizen--who because of naturalization has a right to obtain a U.S. passport--will be listed on a passport as a U.S. citizen with a place of birth outside the U.S. If there was something to rumors of his being born abroad, it probably would have come out at the time the whole passport controversy ensued earlier in the primaries. See the picture below for example; notice that the place of birth here is listed as Washington, U.S.A. If this person was a naturalized citizen from...let's say Austria...his place of birth would have been listed as Austria.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Interior_of_US_Passport.JPG/426px-Interior_of_US_Passport.JPG

[MaryKay]

How about this?: Harvard Law School is in Massachusetts not Chicago. :P Lots of us like to read...Just not BO's books. Don't get me wrong, I love some works of fiction; just not the ones authored by him. :)

In response to other comments, it's unlikely that the DNC would push so hard for BO to become the presidential nominee if they were unsure as to his citizenship status (naturalized vs. natural born); he's probably been "vetted" on that regard by the DNC.

If there is something fishy about this birth cert. issue, it's probably related to something else....Maybe it's the whole religion thing (though even as an atheist, I do not think that Islam, in and of itself, is any worse or better than other similar religions such as Judaism or Christianity.... Just my opinion...) Or, as someone suggested, it would be how his race (and his father's race) were recorded.

FYI: A U.S. passport WILL have info as to the place of birth of the person with the U.S. passport. Thus, a naturalized citizen--who because of naturalization has a right to obtain a U.S. passport--will be listed on a passport as a U.S. citizen with a place of birth outside the U.S. If there was something to rumors of his being born abroad, it probably would have come out at the time the whole passport controversy ensued earlier in the primaries. See the picture below for example; notice that the place of birth here is listed as Washington, U.S.A. If this person was a naturalized citizen from...let's say Austria...his place of birth would have been listed as Austria.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Interior_of_US_Passport.JPG/426px-Interior_of_US_Passport.JPG

You're 100% right about the fact that being Islamic is not a crime, is equal to any religion. There are extremist Baptists, too. Of course, they don't go driving plans into the WTC.

I agree that the religion is probaby listed as Muslim. That means he lied when he says he's never been a Muslim. He may have indeed been raised in the religion. Remember, he also lied about how and when his parents met. This guy is just getting too weird for words, don't you agree?

[Mrsawd]

Minina
Hey I am posting what I am finding and That is all I have to say other than I will say He is hiding some thing ! But what would you expect he has lied about so many issues that deal ith his own life that is unreal ! He is not 1/2 white and 1/2 Black he is 1/2 white 43% arab and 7 % Black ! So why is he and his followers so hepped up on the racist issue between white and Black this is a shameful disgrace to any one who is following the pity me bull crap !

I also will say that for some odd reason he has people over looking issues that should have had up front attentions that were apparently skipped over on purpose !

They are running around in desparation to get this man elected even after Hillary won the popular vote even with all thier illegal voting frauds
that still did not get them thier Obama win by all rights then of course there are all the terroist tactics threats to so many ! Why they want things over looked to get the unelectable man elected !

So apparently we are strongly on the right track ! He is hiding issues that People have the right to know ! and if it is the s number than he could cover that for a Birth certificate to be proven ! there is some thing some where here and we are Close !

[Mrsawd]

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDJhNmI5MDIwMjYwMDI3ZTE5NjQ1YmYyOWM3Nzc1Mzk=




Tuesday, June 10, 2008



BARACK OBAMA

A Few Other Possibilities on Barack Obama's Birth Certificate

Already the query about Barack Obama's birth certificate is being declared ipso facto evidence of "xenophobia" by those who see a "racist America." Well, I did grow up in a small town...


Hawaii's State Department of Health explains the policy on releasing vital records here. Unless you're a relative of Obama, your request will be denied.*

A few readers and other bloggers have wondered aloud what information possibly could be on the birth certificate that would make it worth keeping from the public. Beyond yesterday's (mostly unlikely) possibilities — a foreign birth, a different middle name, or a different first name at birth — there are a few others. (I have been unable to determine precisely what information was recorded on a birth certificate in the state of Hawaii in 1961; any reader insight would be appreciated. I would note that what kind of information was on other state's certificates isn't all that helpful.)

Today's standard certificate of live birth, as issued by the CDC, includes a wide variety of information.

Some states include data on the marital status of the mother. As mentioned in the previous post, details on the marriage ceremony and legal paperwork of the marriage of Obama's mother and father are fuzzy. (It is now clear that Obama's father was not legally divorced from his first wife in Africa at the the time.) All things considered, the possibility that his parents weren't married seems like small potatoes in terms of scandals — not much of a reason to vote against Obama — but perhaps Obama's campaign doesn't want to open that door.

Some states record "religion" on the certificate. If Obama's certificate said "none," it's hard to imagine that being a major scandal; Obama has talked about being raised in a home without much influence of organized religion. I suppose if next to where the religion it says "Muslim", it would generate a predictable brouhaha, but it would reveal more about the beliefs of his father at that time than the candidate. It's not like one-day-old Obama filled the form out himself.

(Perhaps the campaign fears opening the "will the Muslim world see him as an apostate?" can of worms again. But it's hard to see how this revelation would be a bigger deal than his attendance of a Muslim school in Indonesia, that he talks about in his book.)


Then there is the strong possibility that the document asked for "race." I encountered this comment in a web site detailing a research effort at the Family Health Services Division at the Hawaii State Department of Health:

Hawaii is a very unique population. Some of this uniqueness is reflected in that the majority of all births in Hawaii can be considered multi-ethnic. The impact of this heterogeneity on outcomes is not known. The Department of Health seeks a graduate student to evaluate the birth certificate file for birth outcomes of Preterm delivery and Low birth-weight with a particular interest in changes depending on classification based on reported child’s race, compared to mother’s race, father’s race, and both the father’s and mother’s race.

It seems likely that the certificate would record baby Obama's race. While Obama's biracial heritage is pretty obvious, is it possible that the certificate records him as only one or the other? Would that be enough of an embarrassment to keep the certificate sealed? Again, one would think that possibility would reflect worse of the doctor/document preparer or (perhaps) Obama's mother, but not much of a serious gripe with the candidate.

The only scenarios that could really be damaging to Obama himself were if he was born overseas (again, pretty darn implausible) or if he legally changed his name sometime in young adulthood. The idea that he was given some other name at birth and chose to rename himself after his father doesn't seem unthinkable, considering his complicated relationship with his father and sense of identity...

* UPDATE: "Mr. Vice President, it's up to you to solve the mystery."

ANOTHER UPDATE: Craig, a Campaign Spot reader born in Hawaii in 1962, offers the type of information on his birth certificate:

The 'Certificate of Live Birth' contains nothing that could be considered controversial. Some sample entries:

#3. This Birth (box to check) Single, Twin, Triplet

#9. Race of Father

#10. Age of Father

#11. Birthplace (of father)

#12a Usual Occupation

#12b. Kind of Business or Industry

#14. Race of Mother

#17a. Type of Occupation Outside Home During Pregnancy

#17b. Date Last Worked

#18a. Signature of Parent or Other Informant (with check box to signify which has signed)

The word 'religion' does not appear on the form in use in April 1962.
And a reader brought up a surprisingly plausible scenario. We know that by high school, Obama was identified in yearbooks, etc., as "Barry Obama." But we know the relationship between Obama's parents was rocky at times (Obama describes a short article about his father, profiling the Kenyan foreign exchange student, in the Honolulu Advertiser that doesn't mention his wife or newborn child). What if on his birth certificate he was identified by his mother's maiden name... Barack Dunham?

Or Barry Dunham?


06/10 02:37 PM


hmmmm hmmmm hmmmm

[xfiles]

OK, let's ask John McCain to produce his birth certificate also. Not because we don't trust him but we want him to set an example for Barack Obama.

If he has/has had nothing to hide, I don't understand not producing it.

If nothing else, this is another example of obama's stubbornness and unwillingness to cooperate on the most basic level.

I think all candidates should have to produce such documents.

[Bad Kitty]

I want to see the birth certificate now. If this doesn't come up now, it certainly will later. Let's not forget that historically the repubs have no problem playing this kind of politics.

[Minina]

Minina
Hey I am posting what I am finding and That is all I have to say other than I will say He is hiding some thing ! But what would you expect he has lied about so many issues that deal ith his own life that is unreal ! He is not 1/2 white and 1/2 Black he is 1/2 white 43% arab and 7 % Black ! So why is he and his followers so hepped up on the racist issue between white and Black this is a shameful disgrace to any one who is following the pity me bull crap !

I also will say that for some odd reason he has people over looking issues that should have had up front attentions that were apparently skipped over on purpose !

They are running around in desparation to get this man elected even after Hillary won the popular vote even with all thier illegal voting frauds
that still did not get them thier Obama win by all rights then of course there are all the terroist tactics threats to so many ! Why they want things over looked to get the unelectable man elected !

So apparently we are strongly on the right track ! He is hiding issues that People have the right to know ! and if it is the s number than he could cover that for a Birth certificate to be proven ! there is some thing some where here and we are Close !

My sincere apologies MrSawd. I mistook you for a troll. :( Won't happen again now that I recognize your user name.

The DNC is desperate, you're right. They probably see the Selected One's chances of winning slipping away with each new (or not so new) controversy. And of course, we're still a few months away from the GE. There is plenty of time for the Republicans to cause further harm to BO's chances.

BO should just release a copy of that birth certificate and get it over with, imho. BUT, that's advice I would give him if I liked him. Since I don't, I'm enjoying the controversy as it makes him look like he has a huge secret hiding behind a piece of paper. The more he refuses to satisfy our curiosity, the more he looks like the shaddy character that he is. :D

[Minina]

You're 100% right about the fact that being Islamic is not a crime, is equal to any religion. There are extremist Baptists, too. Of course, they don't go driving plans into the WTC.

I agree that the religion is probaby listed as Muslim. That means he lied when he says he's never been a Muslim. He may have indeed been raised in the religion. Remember, he also lied about how and when his parents met. This guy is just getting too weird for words, don't you agree?

I agree of course. Barky-O is full of fairy tales about his conception and family history...and who knows what else. But just watch; he'll be history himself after the Repubs expose each and every dirty little secret of his (and MO's). :D

And yes, the difference between Muslim extremists and Christian extremists is very clear; I can see your point of view. When national security is concerned, "domestic terrorism" pales in comparison, and is punished (sometimes too severely).

[EngCindy]

I think we need to see the birth certificate. Below is a link:
which states that Eisenhower didn't sign until Aug.21,1959.
So, could Barry have been born in Aug.4,1959 ?????
He would not be under the juristiction, if Hawaii wasn't a state yet, right ?

http://www.aloha-hawaii.com/hawaii/remembering+statehood/


* These appear to be two different hospitals, so which one ?

Queens Hospital 1301 Punchbowl St.; Honolulu

Kapiolai Hospital 1309 Punahou St.; Honolulu

[floorrunner]

I think we need to see the birth certificate. Below is a link:
which states that Eisenhower didn't sign until Aug.21,1959.
So, could Barry have been born in Aug.4,1959 ?????
He would not be under the juristiction, if Hawaii wasn't a state yet, right ?

http://www.aloha-hawaii.com/hawaii/remembering+statehood/

Even if that is true, Hawaii was a US territory so it was US soil.

[Mrsawd]

I am believing that we may need to Send Question to President Bush !

Get him on the Ball to do some thing about this sitution Make OBama Prove his qualifications ! Because we know now that either way which I am more inclined to Believe he was born in Hawaii rather than Kenya , Because either way He is unelectable ! This would stop alot of the ignorance that Obama & crew have been throwing all around the world ! I believe he could over rule the crap that the DNC keeps pulling with changing the rules for some one that has no business running for any goverment Office In this Country with the hatred fill Heart Obama Has !


Obama unelectable forever ! I also think that we the People should help Make sure that the rules we have stay as they are because if they change them it will make it easier for People Like Obama to keep working thier way into positions that they should never be near in our Country !

Thanks for tha apology from Minina
TROLL HERE I am indeed farthurest from a troll for Hillary !
I am 100 % NO OBAMA !