Debunking the Roe v Wade Threat and other Anti-McCain Propaganda Pushed by the Obama Campaign!

[hot4hill86]

I'm a die hard Hillary supporter. I'm 21, white and female, but I didn't just vote for Hillary because she was a woman. I believe in what she stands for and support her issues. My mother and I both campaigned for her in Illinois even though we knew she wasn't going to win this state because Obama is senator here. We talked to everyone who would listen about her, donated, wore shirts, bumper sticks on cars... you name it, we did it. I'd like to think I did all I could do for her.

Anyway, after her concession speech (thanks to the MSM pushing her out faster than they ever have ANY man) I've now found myself in a jam on what to do next. While I was okay with Obama at first, the things he said about Hillary during the campaign and the ways he's treated her (the middle finger thing really set me off) have really turned me off to him.

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

And therein lies my problem. I don't trust or respect Obama, but his platform is far closer to my own than McCain's is. I can't in good conscience vote for a guy (McCain) that would put policies in place that would set women back, but I can't really vote for a guy like Obama either--he's sexist, probably not ready and he did some really shady things this election cycle. I don't want to sit this one out either...

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

[VotingHillary]

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

OK, let me help you out with this one. Even the CHIEF JUSTICE of the Supreme Court said that Roe v. Wade is now established law of the land. What that means is basically, the court won't overturn it. The whole pro-life thing is McCain trying to solidify the Republican base. The DNC/Obama keep trying to scare women into voting for Obama by waving the red flag of Roe v. Wade.

And if you have been watching Obama this week, there is no guarantee he won't go pro-life if it suits his political needs. This man will change his tune to whatever is most politically beneficial to himself. See some of the posts regarding public financing and FISA.

Hope this helps.

[yaelbelle]

I have the same issue. But first, Don't give up on Hillary!!!

I posted a similar thread to yours, and got some very thoughtful replies that helped me with the issue. I'll find it:

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=16464&highlight=mccain+pro+life+choice

Please take a chance to look through it. We all have to make our own personal decision and we each have our most heartfelt issues. This thread really did help me in becoming more comfortable with a possible McCain vote... if I don't get a chance to vote for Hillary, which I haven't counted out.

[wildheart4mcpalin]

I respect your conflict. She did not concede however- merely suspended her campaign and I believe she will fight in Denver and could be our nominee, especially when Nobama self destructs- it's only been two weeks and look at all the crap he's done and pulled! Also, tho it is not a popular theme on the forum here, I am voting for a 3rd party- Ralph Nader if he makes the ballot here in Montana, because I can't vote for McCain either. But no matter what, don't give up on Hillary, and follow your own conscience when deciding who to vote for. The worst thing to do is be a sheeple!

[samkm]

Dont fall for scare tactics.

Work hard on bringing down the Fraud. See the links below.. these are the top actions right now.

[hot4hill86]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Good point that Hillary hasn't dropped out and has just suspended her campaign. I'm going to hold out hope Hillary still gets the nomination.

I don't know about Nader since he can't win, but I'm going to look at the link yaelbelle just posted to see the pros and cons of going McCain. :)

[mkreyns]

I'm a die hard Hillary supporter. I'm 21, white and female, but I didn't just vote for Hillary because she was a woman. I believe in what she stands for and support her issues. My mother and I both campaigned for her in Illinois even though we knew she wasn't going to win this state because Obama is senator here. We talked to everyone who would listen about her, donated, wore shirts, bumper sticks on cars... you name it, we did it. I'd like to think I did all I could do for her.

Anyway, after her concession speech (thanks to the MSM pushing her out faster than they ever have ANY man) I've now found myself in a jam on what to do next. While I was okay with Obama at first, the things he said about Hillary during the campaign and the ways he's treated her (the middle finger thing really set me off) have really turned me off to him.

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

And therein lies my problem. I don't trust or respect Obama, but his platform is far closer to my own than McCain's is. I can't in good conscience vote for a guy (McCain) that would put policies in place that would set women back, but I can't really vote for a guy like Obama either--he's sexist, probably not ready and he did some really shady things this election cycle. I don't want to sit this one out either...

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

First of all, look at the two phrases or words that I emphasized in bold on your post. Hillary did not concede, she suspended. That is a big difference. Secondly, I saw an interview with McCain and he stated in his own words that he would never overturn Roe v. Wade. McCain is a centrist and more ideologically fit to protect us. He may even agree to health care because he often goes against his own party and crosses lines for what he thinks is right. He puts the country before himself and is a true patriot.

It seems someone has been selling you lots of propaganda unless this is troll baiting material. In that case we will keep an eye out.

It's your vote, if you vote for Obama, I hope you will enjoy living with communism, fascism and terrorism. I have seen some of that first hand and that is what you will get out of this Chicago style politics - mafia mentality, which equates to fascism.

[hillary4change]

I think you answered your own "question."

Did you not just say (in so many words) that you don't respect him?

There you go. I can't imagine someone voting for a person they don't respect. So, if you "in fact" don't respect him, don't vote for him.

Secondly, if you don't respect someone as President, then it is your duty as an American, to try to keep them out of office. That means a vote for McCain. That is 2 votes against obama. It is a pretty simple equation really!

Country before party. It is our duty!!

Forgot to say, Hillary is still in until obama is "oficially" the nominee. (by DNC new standards) Secondly if you are trying to bait us, we are not easily fooled, and will watch you. If you are not, then welcome.

[Artists4Hillary]

For Roe v. Wade to be overturned, it would take more than the election of any one politician.

First, there must be a case that mounts a serious challenge to the constitutionality of Roe v. Wade. then, that case must make its way through all the levels of the judicial system. then, the Supreme Court must agree to hear the case (they don't agree to hear every case and in fact, many are shot down).

In the 35+ years since Roe v. Wade became the law of the land, no such case has arisen, despite extremely well organized, highly motivated groups of evangelicals who have left no stone unturned trying to find one.
In fact, no case has even come close to reaching Supreme Court level in all that time.

What protects Roe v. Wade more than any politician or any court appointment ever could is that it was a constitutionally sound decision. That's why it's gone unchallenged for 35 years.

[lalene]

Welcome! Here are my thoughts:

- Roe Vs Wade will never be over turned and I am angry that people are using this issue to scare women in voting for a Obama.
- McCain is pandering to republicans because they believe he is too liberal. When the elections are all over, he will be more of a centerist (as oppose to OB).
- McCain has a long record of crossing party lines.
- Congress will be made up of mostly democrats; therefore, they have a great say as to what bills and policies are passed.
- Unlike Obama, you do not have to question whether if McCain is an honorable man or if he has enough experience.

[Kbentleyis]

I'll take the war hero over anyone else. I have a thing for heroes.

[CGP]

Can we move on from R v W...I can't even write the words anymore I am so tired of this lame argument.

[takebackourparty08]

Yeah, don't forget Bush has been in office 8 years and is pro-life. Nothing has changed and nothing would change with McCain regardless of his public position on the matter. Nobody is gonna touch that. Especially with the war and the economy and gas prices. Roe v. Wade is not going to be high on the list for whoever gets in office. If Hillary does not get the nomination at the convention, then I would take a long hard look at McCain and 3rd party candidates if I was you. If you cannot reconcile your convictions to vote for any of them, then write in Hillary or stay home. BUT YOU CANNOT in good consience vote for Obama, otherwise you will validate all his tactics and direspectful and shameful treatment of the Clintons and their supporters. It's better to stand in front of Obama's bandwagon and get run over if you have to, at least you will stand for something. Otherwise you will just be like the rest who have jumped onboard, messmerized by political parlour tricks and canned speeches full of empty calories. But just my two cents.

[bangorgirl]

I'm a die hard Hillary supporter. I'm 21, white and female, but I didn't just vote for Hillary because she was a woman. I believe in what she stands for and support her issues. My mother and I both campaigned for her in Illinois even though we knew she wasn't going to win this state because Obama is senator here. We talked to everyone who would listen about her, donated, wore shirts, bumper sticks on cars... you name it, we did it. I'd like to think I did all I could do for her.

Anyway, after her concession speech (thanks to the MSM pushing her out faster than they ever have ANY man) I've now found myself in a jam on what to do next. While I was okay with Obama at first, the things he said about Hillary during the campaign and the ways he's treated her (the middle finger thing really set me off) have really turned me off to him.

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

And therein lies my problem. I don't trust or respect Obama, but his platform is far closer to my own than McCain's is. I can't in good conscience vote for a guy (McCain) that would put policies in place that would set women back, but I can't really vote for a guy like Obama either--he's sexist, probably not ready and he did some really shady things this election cycle. I don't want to sit this one out either...

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

One McCain is a patriot, he has way more expierence than bo. Bo has some bad connections like Ayers, Rezco, Wright and more than I can say right now. I have been a dem 24yrs. and this will be the first time I will vote for a gop canidate. McCain is more moderate than most republicans. As far as roev wade, that will never be overturned. That is a common threat that is brought up every election cycle. Do not fall for it. And as far as the war goes bo called the Iraq prime minister and told him don't worry about what I say in public, the troops are going to stay. so you can not believe him he seems to be suffering from split personality syndrome. I have lived through one 4yr learning curve and I don't think our country can survive another learning curve.

[Patsy]

I think you answered your own "question."

Did you not just say (in so many words) that you don't respect him?

There you go. I can't imagine someone voting for a person they don't respect. So, if you "in fact" don't respect him, don't vote for him.

Secondly, if you don't respect someone as President, then it is your duty as an American, to try to keep them out of office. That means a vote for McCain. That is 2 votes against obama. It is a pretty simple equation really!

Country before party. It is our duty!!

Forgot to say, Hillary is still in until obama is "oficially" the nominee. (by DNC new standards) Secondly if you are trying to bait us, we are not easily fooled, and will watch you. If you are not, then welcome.

You are exactly right on this!

If Roe v Wade were ever to be overturned, then why not this Conservative Administration? Or Reagan's? He appointed a number of Justices.

If not during those 24 years, then it is not going to happen now. Roe v Wade affords the States to impose any limitations and restrictions they wish and they all do.

At some point women must stand up and no longer be held hostage by Roe v Wade.

It is usually the Republicans who throw in a Social Wedge Issue when they know they can not win on the true issues at hand.

Funny how this year it is the Democrat who is throwing it around. That ought to send off the alarm bells at the highest of decibels.

Do not fall for the scare tactics.

[yaelbelle]

As we luckily get new members, this important topic is going to emerge again, and again. For so many, it is a deal-breaker; although that doesn't mean one-issue voters.

Perhaps we can start a thread under "Key Election Issues" and move the pertinent threads there?

Murray: Do you think that would be more effective?

[Oregonian4Hill]

I agree with all the arguments above concerning Roe v. Wade, plus: Sen. Casey (pro-life) endorsed Obama right before the Pennsylvania primary. I keep wondering what Obama promised him in order to get that endorsement.

[JamieKuuipo]

The issue of Row vs Wade was discussed here on this forum.
See prior threads. how ob camp using this issue!!!!!!!!!!!

A conference call WITH Hillary supporters AND Mccain was conducted Last saturday and the Row vs wade question camp up Mccain is pro life and said that we must respect all life. But he did not say that he would activily try to appoint judges and reverse Row vx Wade. HE DID SAY HE RESPECTED BOTH
SIDES OF THE issue.

The Ob camp is using this issue to persuade us not to vote for Mccain and vote for him because he is closer to Hillary on all the issues.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT OB WILL ACTUALY MAKE GOOD ON ANY PROMISES GIVEN HIS RECORD AND HIS ACTIONS ON PAST ISSUES DO NOT ADD UP TO WHAT HIS VIEWS ON THE ISSUES ARE.

THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT OB DELIBERTLY PICKING THIS ISSUE THAT IS
VOLITLE TO SWAY WOMEN TO HIM.
BEWARE OF THE TRAPS OB CAMP SET UP.
DON'T LET THEM USE YOU, AND WOMENS RIGHT TO CHOOSE, AGAINST MCCAIN.

My opion Is:

ROW VS WADE PASSED IN 1973 IS NOT LIKELY TO BE OVER TURNED EVEN
IF NEW JUDGES EITH BY OB OR MCCAIN CHOOSES.

I would not let that issue stop you from picking the canidate you want to
be President.

A vote for OB would not be for Me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NO DEAL

[CGP]

Hey, I am "conflicted" too. Conflicted as to whether to let this thread remain.

We know the Obama crew have been doing their best to reduce female Clinton supporters to voters who vote on one issue only - ABORTION. What a disgrace. Like women vote on one issue only? :eek: And like women will be fooled into believing this pathetic fear tactic being used by the Obama campaign to try and lure female Clinton voters away from McCain. Does Obama not have a positive message to attract voters with? Seems not. He has to employ this pathetic fear-mongering about aborition to try and scare female voters away from McCain. I am not buying it in the least!

This pathetic strategy also ASSUMES that ALL female Clinton voters are pro-choice. Well, surprise surprise, there are female Clinton voters who are pro-life! Wow, not a homogenous group?! I am shocked.

If I here R v W once more I think I will SCREAM! :eek:

[Area504]

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

[...]

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

hot4hill...

We have had pro-Life, conservative Republicans as President for 23 of the 35 years that Roe v. Wade has been law.

Every one of those GOP Presidents campaigned on a pledge to the Religious Right that they would appoint SC judges who would overturn the decision.

35 years later, the decision still stands. And I'm not worried about a John McCain administration at all.

Barack Obama worries me much more due to his Marxist connections and anti-American associations. If we lose the principles upon which our country is founded, all of our rights -- including our right to choose -- will be lost.

[Jake501]

Hey, I am "conflicted" too. Conflicted as to whether to let this thread remain.

We know the Obama crew have been doing their best to reduce female Clinton supporters to voters who vote on one issue only - ABORTION. What a disgrace. Like women vote on one issue only? :eek: And like women will be fooled into believing this pathetic fear tactic being used by the Obama campaign to try and lure female Clinton voters away from McCain. Does Obama not have a positive message to attract voters with? Seems not. He has to employ this pathetic fear-mongering about aborition to try and scare female voters away from McCain. I am not buying it in the least!

This pathetic strategy also ASSUMES that ALL female Clinton voters are pro-choice. Well, surprise surprise, there are female Clinton voters who are pro-life! Wow, not a homogenous group?! I am shocked.

If I here R v W once more I think I will SCREAM! :eek:

Murray, someone came here for our advice, I don't think we need to assume they no as much on John McCain and Obama as we do. Instead of jumping on a person let's reference them to another thread, or even better, explain to them what we know.

[Area504]

Murray, someone came here for our advice, I don't think we need to assume they no as much on John McCain and Obama as we do. Instead of jumping on a person let's reference them to another thread, or even better, explain to them what we know.
I see your point, but I also see Murray's.

hot4hill may just be an innocent undecided voter, but we also know this is a tactic that Obama trolls have taken here in the past.

However, we don't have to run from the issue...it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned (see my post above yours).

[CGP]

Murray, someone came here for our advice, I don't think we need to assume they no as much on John McCain and Obama as we do. Instead of jumping on a person let's reference them to another thread, or even better, explain to them what we know.

Point taken Jake.

My patience, however, is limited at times in relation to tolerating certain topics/questions given the amount of posts/threads I have viewed/administered in this forum!

And the R v W topic is a known troll strategy used all across the Internet and on TV.

[ILBlue]

If you listen to Right Wing radio you would know the Far Right who are the ones who want to do away with Roe v Wade Hate John McCain .

Why you ask? Because they know he won't do it. He is too moderate. And please remember that over 70% of the voters in this country do not want to do away with Roe v Wade.[B]. That's democrats and Republicans. McCain is a moderate in most instances. Another reason the far right doesn't like him.

I say all this but I understand where you are coming from I'm not fond of John McCain, I will hate voting for him. BUt ......I must vote against Obama. He i bad for this country.

Please do some reading on this site and others and I think you will agree.[I too am from IL. I voted for him as Senator. Will never vote for him again . /B]

[Renee in Florida]

I'm a die hard Hillary supporter. I'm 21, white and female, but I didn't just vote for Hillary because she was a woman. I believe in what she stands for and support her issues. My mother and I both campaigned for her in Illinois even though we knew she wasn't going to win this state because Obama is senator here. We talked to everyone who would listen about her, donated, wore shirts, bumper sticks on cars... you name it, we did it. I'd like to think I did all I could do for her.

Anyway, after her concession speech (thanks to the MSM pushing her out faster than they ever have ANY man) I've now found myself in a jam on what to do next. While I was okay with Obama at first, the things he said about Hillary during the campaign and the ways he's treated her (the middle finger thing really set me off) have really turned me off to him.

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

And therein lies my problem. I don't trust or respect Obama, but his platform is far closer to my own than McCain's is. I can't in good conscience vote for a guy (McCain) that would put policies in place that would set women back, but I can't really vote for a guy like Obama either--he's sexist, probably not ready and he did some really shady things this election cycle. I don't want to sit this one out either...

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

Hot4Hill.

This forum has been up since March , where have you been until now?

Anyway, you say you dont trust Bo, that should be enough for your own conscience when you go into the poll in November.

Remember these Bo major flaws , mistakes, and assoctaions

1. Rev Wright and Rev Pflager, two associations where for 20 years he listened to them spew hate and bigotry toward US and women

2. Disenfranchisement of MI and FL condoned and approved by BO.

3. Obama advertised in Fl from Jan 21-jan 30th on CNN and MSNBC, which was a violation of pledge to not campaign, lost to Hillary by 17% and then decided Florida votes should not count.

4. Disgraceful sexism and misogynist media coverage condoned and approved by Obama campaign. NOT ONCE did the Obama campaign come out against the obvios bias and sexism of the media.

5. Michelle Obama's comments how 'she is for the FIRST time proud to eb an American' because her hubby was running for Pres.

6. Obama's rediculous explanation speeches regarding Wright and Pflager, and then his politically opportunistic resignation from Trinity church just as the RULES and BYLAWS committee was mmeting to decide the fate of Fl and MI

7. Tells the AIPAC meeting one day that Jerusalem should stay undivided and then the very next day due to Palestian pressure does a 180, and says maybe it should be divided between israelis and Paliestians.

8. Has NO EXPERINECE and NO CHARACTER. Has spent 2/3 of Senate seat running for President.

9. Was handpicked by Donna Brazille and Howard Dean in 2004 to lead a new Democratic party movement that doesnt need baby boomers, blue collar workers and Seniors.

10. Obama cant speak unless he is in forn of a telprompter.

11. Obama's threat of ROE vs Wade being overturned by Mccain is so desperate and so old we are sick of the damn threat.

12. Refusal to debate with McCain at town Hall meetings. Remember how he refused to debate Hillary in Indiana?

I could go on and on and on. but please dont tell us you are conflicted if you really belong on this board.

[Jake501]

I see your point, but I also see Murray's.

hot4hill may just be an innocent undecided voter, but we also know this is a tactic that Obama trolls have taken here in the past.

However, we don't have to run from the issue...it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned (see my post above yours).

We need to assume every member here asking questions is genuine. If we act rashly we may drive them into O-bot's camp.

[Sandy in PA]

We know the Obama crew have been doing their best to reduce female Clinton supporters to voters who vote on one issue only - ABORTION. What a disgrace. Like women vote on one issue only?

Thank you, Murray! If any woman votes on Roe v Wade alone, there is something very wrong with them. We have far more important issues facing this country right now. The Roe v Wade threat is nothing more than a threat that has been used since the 70s to get women to vote Democrat.

I have yet to meet a woman that votes on this issue alone. We understand a lot more than being pregnant.

Consider this--if you want to continue to be a pawn that is manipulated by the Democratic Party, then base all your voting decisions on Roe v Wade and play right into their hands.

[Jake501]

Point taken Jake.

My patience, however, is limited at times in relation to tolerating certain topics/questions given the amount of posts/threads I have viewed/administered in this forum!

And the R v W topic is a known troll strategy used all across the Internet and on TV.

I have heard:( O-bots really knell low to win. Their scare tactics are worse then that ad Clinton ran in Texas, hers was a question. His is a real scare tactic *sigh* :(

[Area504]

Jake501 has a valid point, everyone.

We have been discussing this here for months, but there are some undecided voters who may have just now found this forum.

Let's be patient and give everyone the benefit of the doubt (is that OK with you, Murray?)

If they truly are trolls, they will not be able to stomach our resolve ... they will either show their true colors, or they will leave!

[CGP]

We need to assume every member here asking questions is genuine. If we act rashly we may drive them into O-bot's camp.

With all due respect Jake, I have encountered more "conern trolls" in my time on this forum than I care to remember. It would indeed be unwise to assume all members are "pro-hillary". Because history has shown time and time again this is NOT the case. Naiivity is not advised in this regard.

[moose]

JM basically would like to leave R vs W up to the states. Like someone above said, if Bush had no interest in overturning it, there's no way JM would...even if he could.

[samkm]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Good point that Hillary hasn't dropped out and has just suspended her campaign. I'm going to hold out hope Hillary still gets the nomination.

I don't know about Nader since he can't win, but I'm going to look at the link yaelbelle just posted to see the pros and cons of going McCain. :)

If Hillary is not on the ballot, we MUST vote McCain to give two strikes to BO. There is really no choice in this unless we want the fraud to win.

Be sure to stick together on this. This is extremely important.

I wish there is a third choice that brings Hillary to the same ticket as McCain. That would be heavenly. Regardless, BOTH not voting for BO and voting to JM to make the vote count twice against BO are important.

Thanks.

[bangorgirl]

Hillary did not concede, she suspended, I wanted to make that clear. I to am tired of hearing r v w, it's old and as said many times before, it's safe.

[Annie]

I'm a die hard Hillary supporter. I'm 21, white and female, but I didn't just vote for Hillary because she was a woman. I believe in what she stands for and support her issues. My mother and I both campaigned for her in Illinois even though we knew she wasn't going to win this state because Obama is senator here. We talked to everyone who would listen about her, donated, wore shirts, bumper sticks on cars... you name it, we did it. I'd like to think I did all I could do for her.

Anyway, after her concession speech (thanks to the MSM pushing her out faster than they ever have ANY man) I've now found myself in a jam on what to do next. While I was okay with Obama at first, the things he said about Hillary during the campaign and the ways he's treated her (the middle finger thing really set me off) have really turned me off to him.

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

And therein lies my problem. I don't trust or respect Obama, but his platform is far closer to my own than McCain's is. I can't in good conscience vote for a guy (McCain) that would put policies in place that would set women back, but I can't really vote for a guy like Obama either--he's sexist, probably not ready and he did some really shady things this election cycle. I don't want to sit this one out either...

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.


Hillary did not concede - she suspended. That means she is still able to become the Democratic nominee. And hopefully she will be. Obama changes his mind as the wind blows - he is a liar and doesn't know his history and even how many states there are or even where the Great Lakes. He copies others words - and when off the written speech, he has been given by Axelrod, he puts his foot in his mouth showing his ignorance. He is an Axelrod dummy - and it is Axelrod you are listening to when he speaks with the teleprompter. Do you want to vote for Axelrod? The Architect of the Media bias and a henchman of Daly and Chicago Mob?

Roe vs Wade will never be overturned - that is just typical of Obama, thinking women will fall for it. They won't. There are too many women now in public life who know the score.

We know who McCain is with all his foibles - we also know Hillary Clinton is a friend of his and he a friend of hers. He will do nothing to harm her in any way. We can't think the same of Obama -he throws everyone who is not for him under the bus and drives over back and forward to make sure they are dead to him. He is not a nice man. He doesn't care about America or Americans. He only cares about sitting in the white house chatting with America's enemies and his trio of hate filled Pastors. He is Anti American and worse - a racist against whites like his trio of Pastors.

McCain is an American Patriot as is Hillary Clinton. We are still hoping that Hillary will become the nominee - if she doesn't then it will be the country who speaks for America and McCain and not Kool Aid followers (some who seem to be dead or in the Gaza Strip) for Barack Hussein Obama - the Christian (sic)

[CGP]

I have heard:( O-bots really knell low to win. Their scare tactics are worse then that ad Clinton ran in Texas, hers was a question. His is a real scare tactic *sigh* :(

Actually, the 3am ad was quite legitimate and effective. I supported it fully.

[Jake501]

Actually, the 3am ad was quite legitimate and effective. I supported it fully.

Oh, so do I. Don't get me wrong. I was simply comparing the two on how hers was a legitimate question, while his is simple scare tactics.

[Optixmom]

Just because Obama doesn't vote with his brain doesn't mean that all women vote with their uteri (or is it uteruses?).

Let's just reduce all women to a one-dimensional stance, shall we hot4hill86?

Here is that generalizing phenomenon again. The Obama camp is great at it. Obama and his lackeys still think that all women fall into the RvW slot.

[yaelbelle]

I've been a new member on a forum before, looking for like-minded individuals, and accused of being a troll because I didn't know the hot button issues. This is a hot button issue here, but newcomers don't know that yet.

The forum is getting a lot more circulation with all the new Hillary sites out there. So we will luckily have new members, sincere and trolls.

Murray is going to create a Roe v. Wade thread when he can. We can refer questions there.

Until then, we have to expect that sincere Hillary supporters new to the forum will have this same question. And it will be legitimate to them. So shouldn't it be to us? And we have to assume some will be trolls. Our moderators are great at checking for, following, and eliminating trolls.

In the meantime, Hillary supporters are dismissed, ridiculed or undermined enough outside of the forum. Right?

And many are looking for a safe place to support her.

[ZY123]

I really wish Obama would stop trying to imply all women will cast their vote based on just one issue. We are all different, think for ourselves, and have different beliefs regarding Roe v. Wade.

Besides, with Obama's flip flopping and pandering (see FISA as a recent example) how can anyone really say what his platform really is? No one knows since he changes it constantly.

[CGP]

Oh, so do I. Don't get me wrong. I was simply comparing the two on how hers was a legitimate question, while his is simple scare tactics.

Ok, yes, a different approach.

Hillary's ad ASKED people to THINK.

Obama's approach is to TELL people WHAT to think.

[CGP]

Besides, with Obama's flip flopping and pandering (see FISA as a recent example) how can anyone really say what his platform really is? No one knows since he changes it constantly.

This in important point which the biased MSM has failed to report on. Obama doesn't have a platform. He moves forward based on opportunism - whatever sounds good today and will score votes is what he runs with it. If that doesn't work tomorrow, hey, no worries, he just adopts a new position. His views change opportunistically with the wind!

[Texas Bluebonnet]

I hate it that Hillary is considering taking money from Obama's campaign to pay her debts. Since there are 18 million of us, is there anyway that we can do a large fundraiser to help her pay off her debt? Something that will get national attention! There was a website that raised a million or so dollars for one of the Republican candidates in 24 hours. We need to do something to help her. At this point, she's at the Democratic party's mercy. We don't want her to be...we want our voices heard and not be at the mercy of Obama's camp!

Ideas please! Serious money generating ideas please!

[hot4hill86]

Thanks all. I really didn't realize how unlikely it was for Roe V. Wade to be overturned. Like I said I'm only 21 and this is the first time I've ever taken a real interest in politics or been a part of an election.

I can see that there are some really strong feelings here about this. I didn't know you guys had such a big problem with people being disingenuous with their intentions when creating threads. I don't really spend a lot of time on political message sites so I didn't know that people from the Obama camp made topics like this one.

Honestly I was never planning on voting for Obama (unless Hillary is on the ticket to keep him in line). It's just I wasn't sure if I could vote McCain either since his platform is the opposite of Hillary's and I think Hillary has a good platform.

I don't believe in voting 3rd party since a vote for 3rd party only helps one of the other 2 candidates (whichever one you are pulling votes away from by voting 3rd party).

I want to vote though so I am going to keep listening to what McCain says. If I like what I hear I will vote McCain. If he keeps talking about 100 years in Iraq, no universal health care etc. though I will just have to write in Hillary even though it might be a waste unless so many people do this that it makes a huge statement.

Or maybe Hillary will still get the nomination... :)

[yaelbelle]

Thanks for your patience with us on this issue!

There aren't many hot button issues here, but questioning voting for McCain, particularly on Roe v Wade, will usually provoke impassioned responses. And they become more heated as time passes.

Take what helps you, and keep the rest in perspective.

You'll find a lot of great information here, a lot of great links, a lot of great actions, and a lot of great people. We are all very different, though, with the common thread of supporting Hillary.

Roe v Wade has had so many restrictions placed on it in the last years. It is a deal breaker for many. That doesn't make one a one-issue voter. It is a legitmate concern. I think if you followed the link I gave you, you will find more information.



Thanks all. I really didn't realize how unlikely it was for Roe V. Wade to be overturned. Like I said I'm only 21 and this is the first time I've ever taken a real interest in politics or been a part of an election.

I can see that there are some really strong feelings here about this. I didn't know you guys had such a big problem with people being disingenuous with their intentions when creating threads. I don't really spend a lot of time on political message sites so I didn't know that people from the Obama camp made topics like this one.

Honestly I was never planning on voting for Obama (unless Hillary is on the ticket to keep him in line). It's just I wasn't sure if I could vote McCain either since his platform is the opposite of Hillary's and I think Hillary has a good platform.

I don't believe in voting 3rd party since a vote for 3rd party only helps one of the other 2 candidates (whichever one you are pulling votes away from by voting 3rd party).

I want to vote though so I am going to keep listening to what McCain says. If I like what I hear I will vote McCain. If he keeps talking about 100 years in Iraq, no universal health care etc. though I will just have to write in Hillary even though it might be a waste unless so many people do this that it makes a huge statement.

Or maybe Hillary will still get the nomination...

[Tea toaD]

Thanks all. I really didn't realize how unlikely it was for Roe V. Wade to be overturned. Like I said I'm only 21 and this is the first time I've ever taken a real interest in politics or been a part of an election.

I can see that there are some really strong feelings here about this. I didn't know you guys had such a big problem with people being disingenuous with their intentions when creating threads. I don't really spend a lot of time on political message sites so I didn't know that people from the Obama camp made topics like this one.

Honestly I was never planning on voting for Obama (unless Hillary is on the ticket to keep him in line). It's just I wasn't sure if I could vote McCain either since his platform is the opposite of Hillary's and I think Hillary has a good platform.

I don't believe in voting 3rd party since a vote for 3rd party only helps one of the other 2 candidates (whichever one you are pulling votes away from by voting 3rd party).

I want to vote though so I am going to keep listening to what McCain says. If I like what I hear I will vote McCain. If he keeps talking about 100 years in Iraq, no universal health care etc. though I will just have to write in Hillary even though it might be a waste unless so many people do this that it makes a huge statement.

Or maybe Hillary will still get the nomination... :)

This is great place to ask questions and find truthful answers. We are all in this for one goal, for Hillary to become President. I can totally understand your feelings regarding roe v wade. As many have said, it's not going anywhere. If you want to get to know more about McCain you can visit his website but you don't have to register. Even by just staying here you will get to know a lot of just about everything including McCain:) Welcome to the forum and keep reading and keep posting:)

[ZY123]

This in important point which the biased MSM has failed to report on. Obama doesn't have a platform. He moves forward based on opportunism - whatever sounds good today and will score votes is what he runs with it. If that doesn't work tomorrow, hey, no worries, he just adopts a new position. His views change opportunistically with the wind!

I think this is the biggest, very legitimate, and underutilized argument that should be out there against voting for Obama.....why would anyone vote for someone whose real positions on the issues are essentially unknown?

[ssmith]

HI there.. I'm a little less than 10 yrs older than you.. I struggled for a little while with the roe/wade issue..

but there is why I will not only vote mccain and even campaign for him.

bush, is more of a right wing person than mccain, bush with a repub congress COULD NOT over turn roe.. a politician will not be able to do it.. IT WILL NOT BE OVERTURNED.. its a scare tactic being used.. even Roberts and Scalia have said this.

Mccain.. is for ethical stem cell research, it may not be as extensive as I would like but its a huge improvement on that idiot bush.. that should show you .. mccain is a moderate repub

another reason to vote mccain is national security.. remember when you are not sure where you stand, you will fall for anything.. bush was egged by cheney..

mccain has lived long enough and suffered a lot as a POW .. these obamabots may keep saying war monger.. but its more UNLIKELY that mccain will lead to war.. b/c he understands the situation much more than a fraud who was only in the senate for 143 days before he started running for president.

so PLEASE PLEASE VOTE mccain over that fraud.

[Eddie3dfx]

I'm a die hard Hillary supporter. I'm 21, white and female, but I didn't just vote for Hillary because she was a woman. I believe in what she stands for and support her issues. My mother and I both campaigned for her in Illinois even though we knew she wasn't going to win this state because Obama is senator here. We talked to everyone who would listen about her, donated, wore shirts, bumper sticks on cars... you name it, we did it. I'd like to think I did all I could do for her.

Anyway, after her concession speech (thanks to the MSM pushing her out faster than they ever have ANY man) I've now found myself in a jam on what to do next. While I was okay with Obama at first, the things he said about Hillary during the campaign and the ways he's treated her (the middle finger thing really set me off) have really turned me off to him.

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

And therein lies my problem. I don't trust or respect Obama, but his platform is far closer to my own than McCain's is. I can't in good conscience vote for a guy (McCain) that would put policies in place that would set women back, but I can't really vote for a guy like Obama either--he's sexist, probably not ready and he did some really shady things this election cycle. I don't want to sit this one out either...

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

There was/is a huge difference between Hillary and Obama.

1. Obama has a foreign policy thats like Jimmy Carters, in which our country will be more suspect to terrorists attacks due to a very weak foreign policy.
1979 operation Iron claw ended up in a disaster with 400 americans being held hostage in iran for 400+ days.
It led to Carter not stepping down and having the democrats lose the election the following year.

2. Obama doesn't have a plan for universal healthcare. The only way to achieve universal healthcare is.

1. Lower the premiums
a. In order to lower the premiums you must deal with the hidden tax that we all pay (It's a huge inflation) Obama has no plan for this.
So if you don't fight for lowering premiums, you will never be able to get universal healthcare.
Obama couldn't do it in Illinois and he can't do it in the U.S.

3. Obama supports free drivers licenses for Illegals and free healthcare for 15 million illegals who don't pay taxes.
Billions of dollars that go into the highway and road construction will be paid for by our tax dollars while people who break into the country illegally will be able to use the roads free of charge. Same goes with healthcare.

4. Obama is dead wrong on energy. Drilling, nuclear, and green energy is a must.
He is 100% against drilling and nuclear.
The democrats are so damn dumb that they cannot even think 3 steps ahead. They certainly didn't need nostradamus to figure out florida and michigan was going to be a disaster, so someone please explain to them how they can cry about the pollution of oil, when if 300+ million dead cars will be melted and or thrown in landfills because of the switch to hybrids.
They don't even think about little issues like oh wait, i forgot about the cars that we already own!


Obama is nothing more than a third george bush, an inexperienced politician who has his policies shaped by the people around him.
Those people that we don't elect mind you

Don't vote for Obama, Mccain is much better...

BTW, Bush was a 100% pure evangelical and he didn't even think of overturning roe vs wade in the 8 years he was in office.

[hillarymyhero]

hot4Hill
If you're a real and truly Hillary supporter, you will NOT vote for Obama and you will definitely support and vote McCain....

Obama is creating this fear tactics in Hillary's supporters....that won't work with most of us, because we know Obama inside out.....

When you say that Obama's policies are similar to Hillary's, please, please, think multiple times before stating that, because Obama has NO policies at all. He only copies whatever Hillary's says or does.....

And remember we have had one democratic President with in last 40 years for two terms, I am not saying Jimmy Carter, b/c he was not real deal and he was a failed President.

How many times women have had any problem in getting their abortions done , if, they don't wish to have'em?

And why this will be our big problem? when fact of the matter is we Hillary supporters have to show we do care for our contry's security and the only great man who fits in to this is McCain.....

McCain is decent fellow and we should vote for him.....No Nader(he is another failed candidate)......McCain would be my president, not obama.

[samkm]

I hate it that Hillary is considering taking money from Obama's campaign to pay her debts. Since there are 18 million of us, is there anyway that we can do a large fundraiser to help her pay off her debt? Something that will get national attention! There was a website that raised a million or so dollars for one of the Republican candidates in 24 hours. We need to do something to help her. At this point, she's at the Democratic party's mercy. We don't want her to be...we want our voices heard and not be at the mercy of Obama's camp!

Ideas please! Serious money generating ideas please!

The fallacy is that he or DNC will give her anything. She can hope for it, and go campaigning, but they will grind her nose in the dirt rather than give her money. Dont be fooled. They will toss her as fast as they can.

If they had the country's interest first, they would have chosen the candidate who had 100% probability of winning 327 electoral votes over McCain.

They neutralized her. They dropped her from the top of the mountain. I am sure there were plenty of un-quotable pressures including through Rengel's office.

Now is the time to help her pay off her debt so she can stand on her own with our help.

We have to do all we can to help.
The debt still stands at > $20M from what I have heard.

National Bake Sale was OUR idea. We should implement it regardless of who else is implementing it. Wrap the cookies in good material that shares exactly what the alternative is all about.

[Alex01]

What's nice about these types of posts, whomever the source, is that they actually strengthen us in our resolve not to vote for Obama, no matter what happens. We get to review the different reasons we have for never letting this empty suit conman into the White House. And, others who are reading here, who might not have seen them before, get to know our reasons, having them all in one handy place. They, too, get a chance to see how unqualified and essentially unelectable Barack Obama is.

We can also reiterate that Senator Clinton has only suspended her campaign, and has kept her delegates. That is something I love hearing, and can't stress enough! We will see this through to Denver, with the help of reminders like these!;)

Hey, not that it has anything to do with this thread, but I just thought of a way to see if someone is a troll: Copy a line of their post into Google's advanced search, and see if it comes up anywhere else. Then check if the entire post or portions of it are the same or very comparable.

[abigailadams]

Can we move on from R v W...I can't even write the words anymore I am so tired of this lame argument.

McCain is anti ethanol/corn subsidies. This is very admirable. Ethanol is a disaster to our environment and food prices.

Barack is totally Pro-Ethanol.

Barack voted YES on Dick Cheney's Energy Bill in 2005 while Hillary and McCain both voted NO because they knew it was a gift to oil companies. IN fact McCain said he didn't vote for that bill because he "could not in good conscience vote" for it because it did nothing to help alternative energy resources. http://tinyurl.com/2nu8dj

[Hillarysmygirl08]

I am also sick of Rvw. I also agree with Murrey I loved the 3am add I thought it was genus. It did the trick and she was right that was a very clean add and the frigging MSM knew that ad was fine.

[Spagpusher]

Welcome to the forum, hot4hill. :)

Obama has already done more to divide this country and set back both race relations and women's rights than all of the republicans in office in the 4 decades I've been alive. And I'm not talking just President's either ... I'm talking all of them.

And he isn't even the official nominee yet.

If that doesn't speak volumes at to how dangerous it is to give this guy even a second glance, nothing does.

Hope you hang around here. There is much to learn and great information coming forward daily. You should invite your mom to come on board here, too. Hillary supporters need to stay together right now. We need to be strong for Denver.

[takebackourparty08]

Rigel hit it on the head. Anybody voting on one hot button issue should just stay home, it is like following a sports team because of one player. And anybody voting for Obama because he is young or black, 'cause he makes you feel good with his fluffy speeches, or any other irrelevant reason should just stay home also. This is not American Idol, it is America's future. And secondly Obama has no platform, just speeches and "hope". Well I "hope" everyone planning to vote for him wakes up out of the fog in Obamatown, (where the kool-aid flows like water and MSNBC is on every channel) and realizes what is going on before it is too late.

[nette60]

If you are not safe in America....everything else is a moot point

[foxyladi]

If you are not safe in America....everything else is a moot point

SAFETY FIRST
PLAN A HILLARY
PLAN B MCCAIN
PLAN C REFER TO PLAN A
CLICK BUMP

[Ron4Hill]

Lots of Hillary's supporters are still working to ensure her nomination at the convention. We're trying to influence the media so they in turn can influence delegates. There is no nominee yet. Obama has insufficient pledged delegates to be the nominee and superdelegates don't count until the convention near the end of August. That gives us 2 months to turn things around.

Should Obama actually be the nominee at the convention, at least a third of Hillary's supporters won't vote for him. That's nearly 6 million people who, at the moment, won't vote for the illegitimate candidate. Some of them will vote for McCain, some for someone else, and some will just not vote.

I plan to make my vote count and vote for McCain should Obama be his opponent. I've met personally with John McCain and I like him. He's a very good man who doesn't pander and change his views depending on the audience. His views aren't all that different from Obama's on most issues.

Supreme court judges: McCain voted for Breyer and Ginsberg. No litmus test, no ideological test, he just wants qualified judges.

Iraq: Obama has no plan for the US to leave. His former foreign policy adviser said Obama would not be pulling troops out any faster than anyone else. McCain said he'd have most of the troops home by the end of 2012. There's no evidence to suggest Obama would have the troops out any sooner.

Roe v. Wade: It's settled law and a non-issue. McCain stated he's opposed to partial birth abortion but his personal opinion is irrelevant.

Environment/Energy: McCain is very different from Bush in this respect and very much wants to curb greenhouse gas emissions that cause global warming. He's pro-nuclear and sees modern new nuclear power plants as a way to curb carbon emissions and meet some of America's energy needs. He's also for energy alternatives. He's for lifting the ban on offshore oil drilling but that would just leave it up to the states. If CA doesn't want drilling, no drilling, no issue, no problem. Same for Florida and other coastal states. We do have huge offshore oil and gas reserves, however, so if we want to be free from dependency on oil from the ME, we might want to consider tapping our own resources while making a concerted effort to develop alternatives.

Anyone actually considering voting for Obama hasn't been paying attention. He's a pathological liar because he lies about every damn thing. His two books are full of lies. He's a major hypocrite (says one thing but does another). He's a major flip-flopper: NAFTA, campaign finance reform (public financing), FISA. If you don't know about these important issues, start doing some research. Sites to explore:

About 200 listed here:
http://www.justsaynodeal.com/

[Alex01]

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote...

I missed that phrase the first time around. When did you realize that, hot4hill86?

[RachachaSharon]

Thanks all. I really didn't realize how unlikely it was for Roe V. Wade to be overturned. Like I said I'm only 21 and this is the first time I've ever taken a real interest in politics or been a part of an election.

I can see that there are some really strong feelings here about this. I didn't know you guys had such a big problem with people being disingenuous with their intentions when creating threads. I don't really spend a lot of time on political message sites so I didn't know that people from the Obama camp made topics like this one.

Honestly I was never planning on voting for Obama (unless Hillary is on the ticket to keep him in line). It's just I wasn't sure if I could vote McCain either since his platform is the opposite of Hillary's and I think Hillary has a good platform.

I don't believe in voting 3rd party since a vote for 3rd party only helps one of the other 2 candidates (whichever one you are pulling votes away from by voting 3rd party).

I want to vote though so I am going to keep listening to what McCain says. If I like what I hear I will vote McCain. If he keeps talking about 100 years in Iraq, no universal health care etc. though I will just have to write in Hillary even though it might be a waste unless so many people do this that it makes a huge statement.

Or maybe Hillary will still get the nomination... :)

It might surprise you to know that many of us have had similar quandaries. Not the Obama vote - I am pretty certain most if not all of us are adamantly opposed to a BO presidency. I'm waiting until after the convention to make a final decision (leaning toward McCain) on the off chance that our Hillary somehow walks away with the nomination.:D

[takebackourparty08]

Besides a "present" vote isn't really a position on anything! Wasn't that the whole point of his voting record, or lack there of? So that nobody could pin him down to anything and he could just change with the polls and public opinion?

Gee Alex01, does this mean we are pals now?

[Area504]

One more thing for hot4hills (and anyone who is undecided) to consider: whatever your hot-button issue is, Obama is for it today, against it tomorrow.

From his second book, The Audacity of Hope: "I serve as a blank screen," Obama writes, "on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views." He notifies readers that "my treatment of the issues is often partial and incomplete."

Source: Real Clear Politics, 12/26/06 - Obama Scores as Exotic Who Says Nothing. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/obama_scores_as_an_exotic_who.html)

Keep in mind that this man has a history of flip-flopping. How could you trust Roe v. Wade -- or anything -- in his hands??

I trust John McCain a million times more.

[Alex01]

Besides a "present" vote isn't really a position on anything! Wasn't that the whole point of his voting record, or lack there of? So that nobody could pin him down to anything and he could just change with the polls and public opinion?

Gee Alex01, does this mean we are pals now?

Sure! Great synopsis earlier in the thread.

[takebackourparty08]

Well I respect your determination in standing by your beliefs, Alex. Sorry if I came off wrong in our first "encounter".

But hopefully hot4hill has seen the light through the Obama smokescreen. They (Obomb campaign)are gonna do everything short of campaigning with puppies (and they might try that) to try and appeal to the peoples emotions and keep Hillary voters from defecting to McCain. So we are gonna hear about R v. W for a while. But just like the christian right found out with bush, just cause you elect a prolifer doesn't mean he is going to change the law.

[joeysky18]

I don't think our message will be any useful to the person who wrote this thread. She planted the fear message and left without much discussion.

She didn't seem to be interested to debate with the counter points that we gave.

I hope she will come back and read her thread soon. Will see.

[agalfromcal4hill]

Originally Posted by hot4hill86
Thanks all. I really didn't realize how unlikely it was for Roe V. Wade to be overturned. Like I said I'm only 21 and this is the first time I've ever taken a real interest in politics or been a part of an election.

I can see that there are some really strong feelings here about this. I didn't know you guys had such a big problem with people being disingenuous with their intentions when creating threads. I don't really spend a lot of time on political message sites so I didn't know that people from the Obama camp made topics like this one.

Honestly I was never planning on voting for Obama (unless Hillary is on the ticket to keep him in line). It's just I wasn't sure if I could vote McCain either since his platform is the opposite of Hillary's and I think Hillary has a good platform.

I don't believe in voting 3rd party since a vote for 3rd party only helps one of the other 2 candidates (whichever one you are pulling votes away from by voting 3rd party).

I want to vote though so I am going to keep listening to what McCain says. If I like what I hear I will vote McCain. If he keeps talking about 100 years in Iraq, no universal health care etc. though I will just have to write in Hillary even though it might be a waste unless so many people do this that it makes a huge statement.

Or maybe Hillary will still get the nomination...

Hot4hill
A lot of what you bring up are the basic talking points that the BO camp has used to break the resolve of Hillary supporters. We here are well versed in tackling these miss conceptions about why voting BO is better than McCain. Writing in Hillary's name is just another way to get a vote for BO along with supporting a 3rd party. Your concern about the 100years in Iraq is another poor argument against McCain, he was taken out of context on that and I wish people would understand that we have "security" forces in places of former wars STILL. I spent 13 months in a continued battle zone in 1999 KOREA. Yes that is still considered a foreign war zone and I understand that although we don't want continued active conflict in Iraq, a force will still be in place long after the fighting stops. We still have troop in Germany and Japan for that matter and our relations with them have changed since WWII. Yet the troops remain.
We welcome you and hope you'll support Hillary and help her win in Denver. But your concerns alert members, sadly this forum has seen many a troll and you must be vetted, unlike BO.

[xfiles]

It's simple. Don't count on Obama, the worst political flip flopper since Flipper, to keep many of his promises.

McCain believes in states' rights--for each state to decide the abortion issue. He won't appoint judges who would overturn Roe v. Wade.

Don't worry.

When it's a choice between a true patriot and hard liner on national security and a liar and unAmerican, it's a no-brainer!

I'm a die hard Hillary supporter. I'm 21, white and female, but I didn't just vote for Hillary because she was a woman. I believe in what she stands for and support her issues. My mother and I both campaigned for her in Illinois even though we knew she wasn't going to win this state because Obama is senator here. We talked to everyone who would listen about her, donated, wore shirts, bumper sticks on cars... you name it, we did it. I'd like to think I did all I could do for her.

Anyway, after her concession speech (thanks to the MSM pushing her out faster than they ever have ANY man) I've now found myself in a jam on what to do next. While I was okay with Obama at first, the things he said about Hillary during the campaign and the ways he's treated her (the middle finger thing really set me off) have really turned me off to him.

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.

And therein lies my problem. I don't trust or respect Obama, but his platform is far closer to my own than McCain's is. I can't in good conscience vote for a guy (McCain) that would put policies in place that would set women back, but I can't really vote for a guy like Obama either--he's sexist, probably not ready and he did some really shady things this election cycle. I don't want to sit this one out either...

So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

[samkm]

Dont waste anymore time/energy on this thread.

[agalfromcal4hill]

one thing this thread shos is just how "united" we are against BO:D:D:D
maybe they'll understand our stance once and for all
NEVER OBAMA

[Alex01]

Well I respect your determination in standing by your beliefs, Alex. Sorry if I came off wrong in our first "encounter".

No problem. We're all in this thing together!

But hopefully hot4hill has seen the light through the Obama smokescreen. They (Obomb campaign)are gonna do everything short of campaigning with puppies (and they might try that)...

That brought up a really scary mental picture of Obama as Cruella De Vil. Eeks!:eek:

[NewHamster]

From another post

For people who don't get how Hillary supporters can do a 180 and go with McCain:

It's not all about the issues, it's also about the person and their character. Which one do we hold our nose and vote for? Some don't agree with McCain on many things but think he's a decent human being. Remember, this is the guy who refused to be released from Viet Nam POW before guys who had been there longer just because his father was someone important. Obama, on the other hand, does not seem like as nice a guy, even if his stand on the issues are more in line with Hillary's. He and his supporters have been downright vile at times to Hillary and her supporters.

And since Obama "won", Obama hasn't done much to repair the divide. The attitude of Obama's supporters has largely been, "He won. Get over it. He doesn't owe her anything." - continuing this childish nyaa-nyaa that does nothing to bring the party together. Like Hillary or not, find her middle-aged female supporters fun to make fun of or not, the Hillary voters are a HUGE voting block that the democratic party needs. What the Hillary supporters are feeling is that Obama coud care less about them and acts like he's been given a mandate, even though it was a VERY close race and he in fact only will get this nomination because the superdelegates, not the voters, took him over the top.

I thought that what both of them should have done is this: the second one of them "won", grab the other by the hand, run to the nearest podium, and declare a united ticket. If Obama had done that it would have shown that his his uniter message was for real, and that he respects and recognizes the whole half of the party that didn't vote for him. It would show that he recognized the historic nature of this race and the passion exhibited like no other race in history. All (or most) would have been forgiven. Everybody would have immediately gotten on the Obama/Clinton train and it would have taken off like a rocket. The fact that Obama hasn't done this and has made it clear he wants to "look around" for a running mate has made the Clinton supporters seeth. Then he hires someone she has a strained relationship with to be Chief of Staff to the unamed VP. We wonder: is Obama outright thumbing his nose at us? Is this the man we want to give our precious vote to?

We vote with our hearts and our heads. Obama should know this. People voted for Bush not because he was smarter than Gore, but because "he seemed like a nice guy you'd want to have a beer with." Speeches are fluff, written by someone else and delivered by good actors. Obama is good at giving them. He says good things. But until he offers Hillary the VP, he can campaign with her all he wants and I won't be impressed. That says more about her than him. She's a class act, true to her word.

At this point I will vote for Obama if Hillary is his VP, but it is looking less likely that that will happen. I am not swayed by Rvs.W, but health care is what is making me pause. It's agonizing. I'm looking at the green party..

[santafegal]

Anyone that would base their vote on only one issue probably would be better off staying home. That is not a well informed vote.


What is sad is that there are going to be people who will get sucked in. I am doing my best to talk to the people I come into contact with every day...people I work with, folks I volunteer with, neighbors. They need to hear the facts.

[samkm]

If Hillary is not on the ballot for President (looking less and less likely every day) --
All voting options other than voting for McCain will result in electing BO.

Make your vote count twice. Once for NOT voting for BO; second for voting for JM. A gap of 2. This is NECESSARY to vote BO out of the equation. BO is the undesirable alternative to HRC. HC has no choice bec she is "in the family" but we do. We dont need to vote for "in the family" anything. If you dont respect BO, you dont respect BO regardless of who is VP.
We know we respect JM. So, stick with the plan.

1. HILLARY 2008
2. MCCAIN 2008
3. HILLARY 2012

[wasGOPnowInd]

...but, I get a bit suspicious when a new blogger posts questions like this. I suspect, until proven otherwise, that this is an Obama troll. Anyone on this site for any length of time would not be even suggesting a vote for Obama. Does anyone else think this is a bit suspect?

[wasGOPnowInd]

the next page answered those questions... TROLL!

[Hillarysmygirl08]

I do agree with the only option is to vote McCain. Now if you live in a state that John McCain has a big lead then I would say if a few people write in. Now people who live in PA or any other either blue state or battleground states. I live in PA and have to vote McCain or Obama wins.

[Laura Cereta]

Once I realized Hillary wasn't going to fight to Denver though, it's either Obama, McCain or a wasted vote.

Hillary has not released her delegates and BO is the presumptive nominee. Also, 10 weeks is a life-time in politics. Hillary's suppporters will fight to Denver: THIS IS NOT OVER!

My advice to you is to focus on Hillary 08' and everything anti-Obama and anti-DNC that entails. Let Nov take care of itself at this point. August comes before November! ;)

[gcleven825]

Me and my Mom had both pledged to vote McCain in November, but recently I found out that McCain is pro-life and would appoint judges to overturn Roe v. Wade. He also doesn't want universal healthcare and a whole host of other things that are important to me.



So how are dyed in the wool democrats/strong women on this forum addressing this conflict of interest?

I'm thinking of waiting to see if Hillary is Obama's VP first (in which case I might bite the bullet and vote for Obama), but that is looking unlikely.

Just trying to see how others feel.

I am going to de-lurk for a moment and try to ease your concerns. I am a very conservative republican that made a single post to give my support for the Hillary supporters on this site. I decided that, given my politics, I could possibly harm the effort of the members by having it appear to be a bunch of conservatives posing as Hillary democrats. As to R v W you would be surprised at how many conservatives see it as a non-issue and have no interest in overturning it. If a poiltician tried to get between my wife or daughter's need for an abortion that politician would not like the result. It just isn't on our radar as far as issues go other than for some on the religious right and John McCain is reviled by that group and owes them no allegiance.

This site and many like it is something I have rarely seen in my 68 years. It is a lesson in honest people putting country before politics that has been missing for many years. I just wish more of my fellow conservatives acted with as much integrity as this group of democrats are acting. Hang in there and be proud that you have found this group. You and those here could be the start of an era in which the Republican and Democratic parties could compete with each other but do it with respect as fellow Americans. BTW if Hillary is half the fighter I think she is don't be surprised if she, not Obama, and McCain are head to head after the convention.

[Molly]

A vote for McCain is actually a vote AGAINST obama. I guess McCain is 2nd choice for me - and I will do whatever I can to make sure obama does NOT win the white house - he is NOT qualified to lead our country - and lately he seems downright Scary for our country. So - it is really the lesser of two evils - but McCain is really a good guy - he will take good care of us and I truly feel Hillary would actually want him over obama - she often says that McCain is her friend. We need to do whatever we can to make sure obama is NOT elected - and the corrupt DNC goes down.

[samkm]

A vote for McCain is TWO votes against Obama.

Dont take ANY chances. Dont give Any vote elsewhere. There is absolutely no reason to give it elsewhere.
Dont write in..Hillary has not registered as a write-in and it will not count.
Dont vote for third party/independent.

ONLY thing that will ensure that we defeat BO is to vote for Obama. Gap of 2 counts. Be sure to do it. Spread the word. No HRC on top of the ballot, we vote for JM.


Please, donate to Hillary's Primary Fund. This is our best way to strengthen her hand. Dont ever count her out as a player... right now her hand is not strong. We need to make it stronger.

[Alex01]

Thanks for your input and kind words, GCleven. I like the cut of your jib!:)

This site and many like it is something I have rarely seen in my 68 years. It is a lesson in honest people putting country before politics that has been missing for many years. I just wish more of my fellow conservatives acted with as much integrity as this group of democrats are acting. Hang in there and be proud that you have found this group. You and those here could be the start of an era in which the Republican and Democratic parties could compete with each other but do it with respect as fellow Americans. BTW if Hillary is half the fighter I think she is don't be surprised if she, not Obama, and McCain are head to head after the convention.

[dandanna]

Can we move on from R v W...I can't even write the words anymore I am so tired of this lame argument.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[VotingHillary]

I agree with all the arguments above concerning Roe v. Wade, plus: Sen. Casey (pro-life) endorsed Obama right before the Pennsylvania primary. I keep wondering what Obama promised him in order to get that endorsement.

That was my point. Obama will switch at the drop of a hat if he thinks it will help him politically. This guy is for self and self alone...doesn't give a damn about the country.

[Charlie Brown]

Hey, I am "conflicted" too. Conflicted as to whether to let this thread remain.

We know the Obama crew have been doing their best to reduce female Clinton supporters to voters who vote on one issue only - ABORTION. What a disgrace. Like women vote on one issue only? :eek: And like women will be fooled into believing this pathetic fear tactic being used by the Obama campaign to try and lure female Clinton voters away from McCain. Does Obama not have a positive message to attract voters with? Seems not. He has to employ this pathetic fear-mongering about aborition to try and scare female voters away from McCain. I am not buying it in the least!

This pathetic strategy also ASSUMES that ALL female Clinton voters are pro-choice. Well, surprise surprise, there are female Clinton voters who are pro-life! Wow, not a homogenous group?! I am shocked.

If I here R v W once more I think I will SCREAM! :eek:


AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hillary4change]

I am going to de-lurk for a moment and try to ease your concerns. I am a very conservative republican that made a single post to give my support for the Hillary supporters on this site. I decided that, given my politics, I could possibly harm the effort of the members by having it appear to be a bunch of conservatives posing as Hillary democrats. As to R v W you would be surprised at how many conservatives see it as a non-issue and have no interest in overturning it. If a poiltician tried to get between my wife or daughter's need for an abortion that politician would not like the result. It just isn't on our radar as far as issues go other than for some on the religious right and John McCain is reviled by that group and owes them no allegiance.

This site and many like it is something I have rarely seen in my 68 years. It is a lesson in honest people putting country before politics that has been missing for many years. I just wish more of my fellow conservatives acted with as much integrity as this group of democrats are acting. Hang in there and be proud that you have found this group. You and those here could be the start of an era in which the Republican and Democratic parties could compete with each other but do it with respect as fellow Americans. BTW if Hillary is half the fighter I think she is don't be surprised if she, not Obama, and McCain are head to head after the convention.

Thank you, your insight is interesting. We are country before party. We are about safety of our nation. Many of us (myself included) were Dem. Party loyalists, but now see the error of our ways!! :D Welcome, and please post more often.

[gcleven825]

Thank you, your insight is interesting. We are country before party. We are about safety of our nation. Many of us (myself included) were Dem. Party loyalists, but now see the error of our ways!! :D Welcome, and please post more often.I think an election between McCain and Hillary would be a joy to watch. They obviously like and respect each other and no matter who won the country would be in good hands. I would love to see McCain offer Hillary the VP slot. IT would be good for the GOP to distance itself from the radical right and it would be good for the country to create a new paradigm when it comes to politics.

[hillary4change]

I think an election between McCain and Hillary would be a joy to watch. They obviously like and respect each other and no matter who won the country would be in good hands. I would love to see McCain offer Hillary the VP slot. IT would be good for the GOP to distance itself from the radical right and it would be good for the country to create a new paradigm when it comes to politics.

I myself would love that. I think it would rock the democratic Party to its core. I know John and Hillary have worked across the isle together before. Imagine if they could run the country like that. It would be fantastic. Right siders and left siders alike would have things they care about being brought forth. Not just a party agenda, but citizens agendas! I don't think this opportunity will come again. There are no, two other politicians that could pull it off. I am sure these two mature adults could. They come from different sides of the isle with the same goal in mind. A better country...beautiful to me!:p Welcome.

[ScottVA]

I for one AM NOT VOTING ON ISSUES THIS YEAR! I'm voting to keep Obama OUT! McCain is a safer bet for me!

[hillary4change]

Amen Scott, me too.

[AsianNYForHillary]

Hello hot4hill86,

I understand your feeling. Here is how I see those issues.

First you said "his platform is closer to your own". I think it is easy to explain. The reason is he just copied Hillary's policy.
If you were following the debates, you would remember how many times he were saying, mine is similar to Hillary's.
He copied because he does not have one and don't know where he should stand without Hillary come up a draft on any issue.
Afterward he attacked Hillary's policy and saying hers are not perfect(I wonder how many perfect policies out there) to defense his non-existing policies.

Even he copied Hillary’s policy, it does not mean he really stands for it, he just wants the vote. It is like what he said "We don't need the people. We just need the checks" in PA. (see detail here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-12-fundraisers_N.htm )

Second, As you said you don't trust Obama. Even if what he claimed is closer to your own now,
do you really believe he will stand what he claim he would? Let’s see his position on issues from time to time:

public financing:
He claimed "take public financing in the general election if the Republican nominee agreed to do so as well." Now he changed.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Obamas_public_financing_problem.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/19/obama_opts_out_of_public_finan.html

NAFTA: He was using that to attach Hillary in a debate and then he changed said it is not that bad after all.
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/03/obamas-nafta-rhetoric.html
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easton_obama.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008061810

FISA:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html

Can you believe he will stand for what he claimed he would do?


Third, about McCain’s policy:
My understanding about universal health care is providing access to health care for every American.
That is what John McCain stands for too. Although he didnot call it universal health care.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm

All in all:

What do Hillary and McCain stand for, we can check their website and find out their policy.
They may be not perfect, but at least we know their plan and where they stand for.
They have their principle. They respect different opinions and open for discussion.

McCain would not label people uneducated, low income, racist or stupid.
He did not take it for granted that Hilary supporters should vote for him, but he works for it and listen to you.

About Obama, you cannot get any detail information about his policy, and even you do, you don't know whether he will stand for it tomorrow.
He & his supporters label people “uneducated”, “low income”, “racist” or stupid. And then he claimed they represent you and you have to fall inline because you have no place to go.
If they find people actually have a place to go, they start to threaten people. You can what they did to Paula abeles ( http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=17570 )

Of course he have to say something to please some people to get the vote. But he never mean what he said.
I thought my English was not very good (English is not my native language) so that sometimes people misunderstood me.
It seems Obama's English is not that good either. He has to explain most of his statements again and again that people misunderstood him, and he did not mean what he said. Or he means exactly what he said!

As Hillary said "words are cheap".
Please check out McCain’s policy online or talk to their people. Don’t only listen to pro-Obama media and what Obama’s campaign said about McCain. Please make sure your judgment is base on not only what they said but also what they did.


Whatever you decision is after your research, if you can say to yourself that you vote for the best interest of the country,
then you should be proud of yourself and be respected by everyone.

Have a good weekend.

[xfiles]

http://www.ssb3.net/users/26641/mccain08.jpg

[AntiObama007]

It might surprise you to know that many of us have had similar quandaries. Not the Obama vote - I am pretty certain most if not all of us are adamantly opposed to a BO presidency. I'm waiting until after the convention to make a final decision (leaning toward McCain) on the off chance that our Hillary somehow walks away with the nomination.:D

I definitely wont vote for Obama, I just want to make sure I do my research and make sure I won't be making a mistake voting for McCain, too. A smaller mistake is still a mistake. I would rather not vote at all than vote for someone who supports things I am vehemently against, even if they are better than the other choice. It's not a question of Obama vs McCain, Obama is off the table, it's more McCain vs not voting, or McCain vs third party candidate or something.

[Suzan]

Okay, something seems obvious to me, but maybe I'm missing something, so please correct me if I'm being dense, and please know that I mean no offense by what I'm about to say. I've been reading the posts a bit at a time, but haven't commented because it's been a tough thread for me to read, but not necessarily for the reasons it's tough for others.

For years I was a one-issue voter and RvW was the issue. I won't go into the gruesome personal reasons, but I couldn't fathom voting for a pro-life candidate, and it was because I didn't want any woman to have to go through what I did. I honestly felt it was my sworn duty to be pro-choice and helping other women in my situation became my mission. It took a long time for me to feel safe enough with RvW to trust that it's probably not going anywhere and to be able to look at things through a lens that is not so narrow, and even to consider the pro-life stance and why people feel so passionately about it, without feeling threatened.

I'm not looking for sympathy by sharing this, but possibly some understanding, and I'm really hoping I don't tick anybody off. I know this is a really really touchy topic. For me RvW is an issue that goes well beyond a concern about getting pregnant. There are still circumstances when it can mean life or death for a woman who finds herself in a situation where reproductive choice isn't available. In my case I was young, and it wasn't available for religious reasons. But it continues to exist as a very difficult and sometimes dangerous choice in women's lives and I can totally understand why some women, perhaps many, are struggling with how to handle it in this election. I believe they deserve some respect and some tolerance, and I'd like to see them have a place to discuss this. If it becomes clear that a troll is clearly just stirring up emotions--and trouble--then zap them. In fact, let me zap them because I consider it reprehensible to play with people's emotions that way. I would just hate to see the issue closed to discussion.

Okay, so this is my question. Sorry it took so long to get to it, and if I haven't ticked you off already, I'm afraid I probably will now. For those of you who are finding talk about Roe V Wade repetitious or a non-issue, why not just avoid the thread, but let people who want to discuss it, do so? I don't read all the threads. I prioritize and when I have more reading time, I read the lower priority ones, but I never get to all of them. I wonder if some of you are feeling that you must read and participate in every thread? I know poor Murray and the mods have to do that, and I don't know how to solve that problem. Maybe a couple mods who aren't weary of the RvW thread could take charge of it?

I don't know--and maybe you've already hashed all of this out, and I'm coming in too late here. I just found the courage to post about it, so I came to the end and did so. I figured if I read through anymore posts, I wouldn't say anything.

[joeysky18]

Susan, your comment is always welcome and you don't tick anyone off.

I think everyone here agree that RvW is an important issue, as well as the pro-choice for women. The points in the early post is that we have hear enough of BO using RvW as fear tactic to scare women.

So we have agreed to let the discussion in this thread flourish. All member can give their opinion why we shouldn't afraid to vote for McCain because of RvW fear tactic.

I emphasis again that RvW is an important issue. But it's not an issue to deter your vote for McCain, because McCain doesn't have the ability to overturn RvW.

Beside McCain voted for 2 liberal supreme judge appointed by Bill Clinton.

[mcgowan.swan]

i think we should start a "give hill a dollar" campaign and see if we can get the millions of voters to give to it. many will give more than a dollar. not sure where we could start it, but i am sure someone could think of a good medium to organize it in?

[SantaCruzen]

OK, let me help you out with this one. Even the CHIEF JUSTICE of the Supreme Court said that Roe v. Wade is now established law of the land. What that means is basically, the court won't overturn it. The whole pro-life thing is McCain trying to solidify the Republican base. The DNC/Obama keep trying to scare women into voting for Obama by waving the red flag of Roe v. Wade.

And if you have been watching Obama this week, there is no guarantee he won't go pro-life if it suits his political needs. This man will change his tune to whatever is most politically beneficial to himself. See some of the posts regarding public financing and FISA.

Hope this helps.

McCain has to say that Pro-Life stuff to get votes like Hillary has to stand and say stuff to the loathe or a putrid person: I forget his name already because he is banned from our tongues. From now on he is Whosit?

And the Dems need to stop being Fear Mongers. That is the oldest trick on the books. They did it way back in the Old Testament. Jesus was sent to stop that I heard.

[ZY123]

Okay, so this is my question. Sorry it took so long to get to it, and if I haven't ticked you off already, I'm afraid I probably will now. For those of you who are finding talk about Roe V Wade repetitious or a non-issue, why not just avoid the thread, but let people who want to discuss it, do so? I don't read all the threads. I prioritize and when I have more reading time, I read the lower priority ones, but I never get to all of them. I wonder if some of you are feeling that you must read and participate in every thread? I know poor Murray and the mods have to do that, and I don't know how to solve that problem. Maybe a couple mods who aren't weary of the RvW thread could take charge of it?

I don't know--and maybe you've already hashed all of this out, and I'm coming in too late here. I just found the courage to post about it, so I came to the end and did so. I figured if I read through anymore posts, I wouldn't say anything.

I'm a little nervous to respond here...sometimes it's hard to express an opinion on an issue such as Roe v. Wade...things need to be worded very carefully so I tried really hard....I hope it doesn't come off wrong or make you mad.


I'm 100% not angry with your post (and I don't think anyone else will be either)
I'm 100% not angry with your post and think you have a right to your opinion (I'm certainly willing to listen even if I don't agree). I'll be honest and tell you I used to be a one issue voter - then one election (it was a state recall election) a close male friend of mine harshly and bluntly told me why that was a bad idea. I was mad at him for about two weeks and then I decided he was right.

I think everyone should be able to post an opinion on the issue - both the people that feel Roe v. Wade shouldn't be a central voting issue in this election and the people that do think it should be a central voting issue. I think the people that feel it shouldn't be an issue feel that just as strongly about that as you feel it should be a central issue. So I think of it this way...if we repress their opinions is that fair? (I hope this isn't making you mad it's not supposed to be) I'm just saying for a real debate and real discussion we need both sides of the debate...so wouldn't that include you and others who think it should be a central issue and the people that think it shouldn't? Maybe I'm way off base?

I personally feel it's insulting to women for Obama to feel that we will change our votes on one issue - that was the point of my original post....it's as if he thinks he can easily sway us to his side. (In addition with all of his pandering I'm not sure I believe anything Obama says regarding his stances on issues....)

EDIT: Roe v Wade is a touchy subject so I took out my personal opinion on it....I am pro-choice, but I have a bit different take on it.

Somewhere I lost my point - but I think you have every right to express your opinion and I read it and was touched by your dedication to the issue and your story. I may not agree that Roe v. Wade should be a central voting issue in this election but I support your right to disagree. I like threads like this where there is discourse...any suppression of discourse on either side makes me less likely to post at all (only because then I don't see the point of posting - if everyone agrees there's not much to say).

Maybe we disagree on the point of the thread? Is it on Roe v. Wade in general and not on whether Roe v. Wade should be used to decide whether or not to vote McCain? I honestly don't know...asking.

Hope you're not mad...:)

[hills]

Vote McCain. There is no certainty that Obama would choose better judges than McCain in regards to Roe v. Wade since he was for Roberts before an aide told him not to. Obama doesn't stand for Universal Health Care. He campaigned against Hillary in Ohio with the use of Harry and Louise mailers. Which kind of a Democrat does that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_X-RoRghAY

We all know that Obama would never fight hard for anything. He always changes his mind. He recently demostrated that with FISA and NAFTA. Besides he also voted present 130 times. If you vote for Obama, you will be agreeing with what happened in this primary. You will be saying yes to corruption.

Another reason not to vote for Obama is that he is inexperienced, unqualified and there are others that will be pulling the strings. You saw that with Bush, do you want to relive the same thing with Obama as a president?

A vote against Obama is a vote for your country. Do you really want to put the lives of your fellow Americans in the hands of someone like Obama?

Another perspective
I also see it this way. A vote for McCain will be a vote for Hillary. If Obama won, he would run again in 2012 which would mean that Hillary wouldn't. But if McCain won, he wouldn't run again in 2012 which would mean Hillary would so a vote for McCain in 2008 is a vote for Hillary in 2012.

[mjno7777]

I agree with fellow posters that you have fallen for the SCARE TACTICS against McCain. Especially Roe v. Wade, IT AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE.

[eyedoc333]

I think our forum members span an entire range of opinions on the abortion issue. For me, it is a matter of personal choice.

Yet, I think we can be inclusive of different opinions here and still support Hillary regardless of our personal preferences on abortion or other issues. No candidate will match us 100% on all issues. We can't let wedge issues divide us in our purpose to stand behind Hillary.

[Alex01]

Holy cow, this is a wonderful source document - so many links! Thanks, ANYFH - I'm keeping it for future reference.:)

Hello hot4hill86,

I understand your feeling. Here is how I see those issues.

First you said "his platform is closer to your own". I think it is easy to explain. The reason is he just copied Hillary's policy.
If you were following the debates, you would remember how many times he were saying, mine is similar to Hillary's.
He copied because he does not have one and don't know where he should stand without Hillary come up a draft on any issue.
Afterward he attacked Hillary's policy and saying hers are not perfect(I wonder how many perfect policies out there) to defense his non-existing policies.

Even he copied Hillary’s policy, it does not mean he really stands for it, he just wants the vote. It is like what he said "We don't need the people. We just need the checks" in PA. (see detail here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-12-fundraisers_N.htm )

Second, As you said you don't trust Obama. Even if what he claimed is closer to your own now,
do you really believe he will stand what he claim he would? Let’s see his position on issues from time to time:

public financing:
He claimed "take public financing in the general election if the Republican nominee agreed to do so as well." Now he changed.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Obamas_public_financing_problem.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/19/obama_opts_out_of_public_finan.html

NAFTA: He was using that to attach Hillary in a debate and then he changed said it is not that bad after all.
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/03/obamas-nafta-rhetoric.html
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easton_obama.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008061810

FISA:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html

Can you believe he will stand for what he claimed he would do?


Third, about McCain’s policy:
My understanding about universal health care is providing access to health care for every American.
That is what John McCain stands for too. Although he didnot call it universal health care.
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm

All in all:

What do Hillary and McCain stand for, we can check their website and find out their policy.
They may be not perfect, but at least we know their plan and where they stand for.
They have their principle. They respect different opinions and open for discussion.

McCain would not label people uneducated, low income, racist or stupid.
He did not take it for granted that Hilary supporters should vote for him, but he works for it and listen to you.

About Obama, you cannot get any detail information about his policy, and even you do, you don't know whether he will stand for it tomorrow.
He & his supporters label people “uneducated”, “low income”, “racist” or stupid. And then he claimed they represent you and you have to fall inline because you have no place to go.
If they find people actually have a place to go, they start to threaten people. You can what they did to Paula abeles ( http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=17570 )

Of course he have to say something to please some people to get the vote. But he never mean what he said.
I thought my English was not very good (English is not my native language) so that sometimes people misunderstood me.
It seems Obama's English is not that good either. He has to explain most of his statements again and again that people misunderstood him, and he did not mean what he said. Or he means exactly what he said!

As Hillary said "words are cheap".
Please check out McCain’s policy online or talk to their people. Don’t only listen to pro-Obama media and what Obama’s campaign said about McCain. Please make sure your judgment is base on not only what they said but also what they did.


Whatever you decision is after your research, if you can say to yourself that you vote for the best interest of the country,
then you should be proud of yourself and be respected by everyone.

Have a good weekend.

[CGP]

This thread has been re-titled to better reflect the major themes expressed in the responses to the original post. The Obama campaign is desperate to lure Hillary supporters and throws around all kind of propaganda and misinformation to try and "frighten" or "shame" Clinton supporters into not supporting McCain - a lot of that propaganda and misinformation has been justly challenged in this thread. Every single person has a right to vote for whomever they wish, including John McCain.

[NewHamster]

Murray, I don't think that Obama really is desperate to lure us into voting for him. I actually think he could care less about us! He thinks he is such a Messiah that he can win this thing without us! He thinks that most of us will just fall in line no matter what he does, and the rest of us are insignificant. :cool:

[wasGOPnowInd]

This thread has been re-titled to better reflect the major themes expressed in the responses to the original post. The Obama campaign is desperate to lure Hillary supporters and throws around all kind of propaganda and misinformation to try and "frighten" or "shame" Clinton supporters into not supporting McCain - a lot of that propaganda and misinformation has been justly challenged in this thread. Every single person has a right to vote for whomever they wish, including John McCain.

I too am too through with RvW arguments. As a woman, I am feeling manipulated by the whole thing.

[Suzan]

Joeysky and Rigel, thanks for your comments. I appreciate your taking the time. And I'm not mad at all. Quite the contrary. Love you both.

I didn't express myself well. I wasn't trying to suggest that people should make RvW a central issue or the only issue in their voting choices. It certainly isn't for me anymore. I just wanted to point out that there was a time when it was, and that may be the case for women coming here as new members and even some of our veteran members, and I would like to see the topic continue to be open for discussion.

Some of those people are going to need support and information from those of us who've struggled with the issue and decided to vote McCain over Obama. I've made that decision and I feel as if I might be able to help others who are stuck. That's really the point I was trying to make in my plea to keep the thread open, but detoured off into my own history as an example of why I was one-issue for a period of my life.

My entire post was just a request to allow discussion on the topic. Now having said that, I do realize that Obots are being destructive and playing mind games with RvW and I hate that. It's despicable fear-mongering and gutter psychology. But I'm not sure the answer is not to respond to what we think might be legitimate questions. Possibly at some point we could refer those with questions to archived threads like these and they could review the discussion for themselves. I don't know how best to handle it. I just know there's geniune conflict and I didn't want to see that discounted.

So ... I've read the remainder of the posts now, and it sounds like Hot4Hill was a troll after all? I'm really counting on there being a special place in hell for people like that, maybe with a life-size revolving target and people with lousy aim throwing knives....

[ZY123]

Joeysky and Rigel, thanks for your comments. I appreciate your taking the time. And I'm not mad at all. Quite the contrary. Love you both.

I didn't express myself well. I wasn't trying to suggest that people should make RvW a central issue or the only issue in their voting choices. It certainly isn't for me anymore. I just wanted to point out that there was a time when it was, and that may be the case for women coming here as new members and even some of our veteran members, and I would like to see the topic continue to be open for discussion.

Some of those people are going to need support and information from those of us who've struggled with the issue and decided to vote McCain over Obama. I've made that decision and I feel as if I might be able to help others who are stuck. That's really the point I was trying to make in my plea to keep the thread open, but detoured off into my own history as an example of why I was one-issue for a period of my life.

My entire post was just a request to allow discussion on the topic. Now having said that, I do realize that Obots are being destructive and playing mind games with RvW and I hate that. It's despicable fear-mongering and gutter psychology. But I'm not sure the answer is not to respond to what we think might be legitimate questions. Possibly at some point we could refer those with questions to archived threads like these and they could review the discussion for themselves. I don't know how best to handle it. I just know there's geniune conflict and I didn't want to see that discounted.

So ... I've read the remainder of the posts now, and it sounds like Hot4Hill was a troll after all? I'm really counting on there being a special place in hell for people like that, maybe with a life-size revolving target and people with lousy aim throwing knives....

Ohhhhh.....I definitely misread. I think you have a good point that for some people truly struggling with the issue they might need some guidance and information. I think someone here has some legal information about why Roe v. Wade won't be overturned in an Republican Administration (I think I saw that)....so maybe that would be useful?

I think we have a very gray line to work with....not satisfying the OBots trying to manipulate discussion and use scare tactics but at the same time giving good facts and information to the posters that are truly concerned. I think we can figure out a way. :)

[Suzan]

Ohhhhh.....I definitely misread. I think you have a good point that for some people truly struggling with the issue they might need some guidance and information. I think someone here has some legal information about why Roe v. Wade won't be overturned in an Republican Administration (I think I saw that)....so maybe that would be useful?

I think we have a very gray line to work with....not satisfying the OBots trying to manipulate discussion and use scare tactics but at the same time giving good facts and information to the posters that are truly concerned. I think we can figure out a way. :)
Yes, I saw that too. Was it by Hillary4change? It was a great post about why RvW is constitutionally sound, and it helped me personally. I've made my decision, but I still appreciate having it reinforced by good solid info.

It's probably here in this thread somewhere. I just don't have the energy to go back and reread. Hmm, now I'm wondering if we have a RvW subtopic. That's where all of this could go. I'll take a look.

[abigailadams]

The fallacy is that he or DNC will give her anything.

National Bake Sale was OUR idea. We should implement it regardless of who else is implementing it. Wrap the cookies in good material that shares exactly what the alternative is all about.

Yes, I wrote this idea for the bake sale in February. Between all the phone banking, calling SDs it was more important to get out the vote.
When I saw Moveon.org was doing it I cringed. Although there have been National Bake Sales before. Many of them.

The fact that Moveon.org, the organization that was under fire in congress for the "Betray Us" ad is having one for the Fraud is laughable.

Here was Hillary, a true democrat who voted to NOT condemn them for the Ad while the Fraud lingered in the Senate building and AVOIDED the vote lest he be seen as too controversial is one the the biggest jokes of the primary.

That anyone coud still be a member of the organization that backs BO (who is backed by Daschle, Kerry, Dodd - ALL of whom voted for IWR!) obviously has no self respect or, better yet, no real knowledge of the fraud's voting record.

George Soros owns Moveon.org adn he published Scott McCllelans book.

Still think BO is an outsider? No, he's not. But he is a puppet.

Wow, guess I had to get that off my chest.

Let's see the Fraud: broke with Public financing, voted for FISA, gets money from Ethanol, Wall Street, is sexist. Wow, now there's a democrat! What a joke.