(June 24, 2008) Faked certificate suggests that Obama may not be "natural born" US citizen (IsraeliInsider) - by R.Koret [with a picture of embossed seal needed; + quote from Hawaii DOH official

[samkm]

Faked certificate suggests that Obama may not be "natural born" US citizen
By Reuven Koret June 24, 2008
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm
It is now a certainty that the "birth certificate" claimed by the Barack Obama campaign as authentic is a photoshopped fake.

The image, purporting to come from the Hawaii Department of Health, has been the subject of intense skepticism in the blogosphere in the past two weeks. But now the senior spokesman of that Department has confirmed to Israel Insider what are the required features of a certified birth document -- features that Obama's purported "birth certificate" clearly lack.
Janice Okubo, Director of Communications of the State of Hawaii Department of Health, told Israel Insider: "At this time there are no circumstances in which the State of Hawaii Department of Health would issue a birth certification or certification of live birth only electronically." And, she added, "In the State of Hawaii all certified copies of certificates of live birth have the embossed seal and registrar signature on the back of the document."
Read the full article at the link above which has a picture Embossed seal of the State of Hawaii absent from the so called "certificate of birth" of Barack Obama.

[mkreyns]

Will this finally be the thing to take this idiot down?


Research has since uncovered the law, in force at the time of Obama's birth, that were he to have been born in another country, his young American mother's youth extended time abroad would not suffice to make him a "natural born citizen." Even if he were naturalized later -- and there is no evidence that he was -- he would not be eligible to run for the office of president and -- if forgery or misrepresentation were involved -- he and his staffers might find themselves facing stiff federal and state charges.

Because if Barack Hussein Obama II does not produce definitive proof of his "natural born" American citizenship with original, verifiable documents, he will be setting the stage for a very public battle over his personal credibility, the basic legitimacy of his candidacy, and its possible criminality.

[Tea toaD]

Will this finally be the thing to take this idiot down?

I sure hope so:cool: Things just aren't adding up. Why is there such mystery surrounding a Presidential candidate's birth? Should be no secret...plain and simple. The rulez as Donna B. says are the rulez;)

[ScottVA]

Obama's unwillingness is really what's making this issue look more and more like he's not being upfront YET AGAIN!

[spdubois]

can't someone request a copy of someone's birth certificate? or are they under lock and key now? I thought you could just request anyone's birth certificate.

[Calico]

Because if Barack Hussein Obama II does not produce definitive proof of his "natural born" American citizenship with original, verifiable documents, he will be setting the stage for a very public battle over his personal credibility, the basic legitimacy of his candidacy, and its possible criminality

As with many criminals, something usually trips them up and they are found out. In BO's case, there are too many people searching for that thing and the truth will eventually catch up to him. At least, we certainly hope so and soon, very soon.

[Musicdude]

Hawaii states that a "certified copy of a certificate of live birth" has the embossed seal and signature. What about a "certification" of live birth - the lesser document? The Obama website shows a "certification" of live birth. What is supposed to be on THAT document? Are all documents issued by the department certified no matter what the title is? Are the terms certificate and certification used interchangeably>? The issue remains unclear. :rolleyes:

[ScottVA]

Hawaii states that a "certified copy of a certificate of live birth" has the embossed seal and signature. What about a "certification" of live birth - the lesser document? The Obama website shows a "certification" of live birth. What is supposed to be on THAT document? Are all documents issued by the department certified no matter what the title is? Are the terms certificate and certification used interchangeably>? The issue remains unclear. :rolleyes:

My partner was born in Hawaii (he's not a native though) and he has a copy of his Birth Certificate.....it's got a raised seal on it...

[Musicdude]

Did anyone take a screen shot of the Obama site showing the "certificate" before it disappears?

[ScottVA]

Did anyone take a screen shot of the Obama site showing the "certificate" before it disappears?

That is just a birth record not a certificate..... it doesn't have any seal on it to authenticate the Secretary of States machined signature on it.... Every certificate should have a State officials signature (in some form) with a seal (in some form)..... That piece of paper could've EASILY been manufactured these days!

[Frances]

many states will not issued full birth certificate (Certified" unless you are part of the immediate family or for medical reasons if you are related)

But surely the US office does have his birth certificate (certified in order to qualify him for office) won't you think?

Obama might be jiving as he's good at it.

[Linda C]

My certified copy from PA has no seal. I have no clue what ever happened to the original

i somehow do think this is a distraction , but I could bewrong

[ivotedforhillary]

I emailed Sean Hannity about it

[NewHamster]

So, bottom line, can the state of Hawaii produce the legal certificate or not???? The answer should take 10 minutes!!!

[Musicdude]

That is just a birth record not a certificate..... Does the State issue a birth record that looks exactly like Obama's? Or does that come from a vendor authorized by the State? If so, there should be others that look just like Obama's - with the strange borders that overlap. Haven't seen one yet.

[Mrsawd]

I am starting to Wonder if all the stalling on th Verifacations of Legalitys are being stalled unpupose til McCain Has to Be the One that becomes President Or He has had enough voters switch to Republican !

For Our Goverment to wake up !

All these Facts about Obama need to be brought out in time For American To be allowed to Vote for Hillary!

[Sylvia]

Isn't there some agency that verifies these things prior to anyone running for president? Was the DNC incompetent once again? It seems unbelievable that something so basic would have gone unnoticed or is being covered up!

If this is shown to be true and by some miracle he is in the White House, does the VP become president or would Hillary be able to claim it?

[Bacio83]

Just got this quote from LS's blog and I had to share... hysterical!

“That’s not the birth certificate that I knew.” BH Obama

Priceless.

[samkm]

... does the VP become president or would Hillary be able to claim it?

The VP would.

[kyforhillary]

Ok what can we actually do about this? Do we as citizens have any legal recourse?

[Sylvia]

The VP would.

That seems terribly wrong since whoever is the VP did not get the 18 million votes. :(

[samkm]

We can strengthen her for Denver by
1- paying off her debt
2- writing to local media; calling local radio
3- talking with/writing to super delegates.

[Jen the Michigander]

Is Israeli Insider an English language newspaper based in Israel, or is it an American newspaper that focuses on Israeli interests? If it's an Israeli paper, it's pretty pathetic that we have to rely on the foreign media to do the work that the U.S. media should be doing. Don't get me wrong-- I'd be very happy if a foreign news source dug up the right dirt on Bambi and made it public. And I can especially understand why the Israelis would be the ones to do it. But still, I wish a major US media source would cover this.

[ScottVA]

Does the State issue a birth record that looks exactly like Obama's? Or does that come from a vendor authorized by the State? If so, there should be others that look just like Obama's - with the strange borders that overlap. Haven't seen one yet.

Well my partners is an original so it's black/green in color
The thing he puts out is a computer generated one (reprint) but it's not what Hawaii issues as a birth certificate.... I have a computer generated one from PA (reprint) but mine has the Secretary of State machined signature on the bottom with the State Seal over that....

[Mrs L]

Oh please God

Let it be!!

Let it be fake and help us find the proof he was born out of the USA.

PLEASE LET THIS BE IT!!!!!!

[JamieKuuipo]

THIS ARTICLE IS EXACTLY CORRECT:

THE OB CERTIFICATE IS NOT VALID!!! WITHOUT THE EMBOSSED SEAL, AND
SIGNATURE OF REGISTRA STAMP ON BACK..

The Honolulu Board of Health where the birth records are obtained, must be
going crazy right about now!!! Its a very small office and they are jamed
every day.. THEY ARE VERY STRICT!!! We are not allowed to request a certification of birth , unless we are family and can state the reason for request you have to show ID, and this is checked by birth record.

SO THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN OBTAIN THE CORRECT COPY OR AUTHENTIC
COPY OF THIS WITHOUT SOME KIND OF COURT INTERVENTION.
OB KNOWS THIS!!!
NO ONE CAN GET THIS, ONLY HIS SISTER OR GRANDPARENTS OR PARENTS, OR HIS CHILDREN OR WIFE ECT........

PEOPLE WE HAVE BEEN DUPED, AND REST ASURE HE IS HIDING SOMTHING
AND THE STATE OF HAWAII PROTECTS THIS INFORMATION, FROM BEING PUBLIC....... OB dose have the Law behind him!!! FOR NOW!!!!!!!!!!

[Charlie Brown]

So any non US cirizen can make there way to the top???? what the hell??? Who makes sure this doesnt happen????

[ScottVA]

THIS ARTICLE IS EXACTLY CORRECT:

THE OB CERTIFICATE IS NOT VALID!!! WITHOUT THE EMBOSSED SEAL, AND
SIGNATURE OF REGISTRA STAMP ON BACK..

The Honolulu Board of Health where the birth records are obtained, must be
going crazy right about now!!! Its a very small office and they are jamed
every day.. THEY ARE VERY STRICT!!! We are not allowed to request a certification of birth , unless we are family and can state the reason for request you have to show ID, and this is checked by birth record.

SO THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN OBTAIN THE CORRECT COPY OR AUTHENTIC
COPY OF THIS WITHOUT SOME KIND OF COURT INTERVENTION.
OB KNOWS THIS!!!
NO ONE CAN GET THIS, ONLY HIS SISTER OR GRANDPARENTS OR PARENTS, OR HIS CHILDREN OR WIFE ECT........

PEOPLE WE HAVE BEEN DUPED, AND REST ASURE HE IS HIDING SOMTHING
AND THE STATE OF HAWAII PROTECTS THIS INFORMATION, FROM BEING PUBLIC....... OB dose have the Law behind him!!! FOR NOW!!!!!!!!!!

I'm surprised a lawsuit hasn't cropped up yet challenging the authenticity of his birth certificate! a Federal Judge could force Hawaii to produce what they've got on Obama!

[wasGOPnowInd]

Oh please God

Let it be!!

Let it be fake and help us find the proof he was born out of the USA.

PLEASE LET THIS BE IT!!!!!!

The way the kool-aid seems to flow lately, if it was true, the Obama camp and the DNC and the MSM would find a way to altar the constitution.

[ScottVA]

The way the kool-aid seems to flow lately, if it was true, the Obama camp and the DNC and the MSM would find a way to altar the constitution.

A constitutional amendment would never happen in this case! It would require passage of Congress and 3/4's of 50 States to ratify it.....

[bangorgirl]

The way the kool-aid seems to flow lately, if it was true, the Obama camp and the DNC and the MSM would find a way to altar the constitution.

Thats what I was thinking.

[ScottVA]

Thats what I was thinking.

a Constitutional Amendment change takes YEARS at best to ever take place... it just wouldn't happen in this situation.

[Area504]

Another article with some very good visual data:
Was Obama's "Certificate of Birth" manufactured? (http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/06/20/was_obamas_certificate_of_birth_manufactured.thtml )

[PA_Voter]

Well you guys made me check myself... I have two "certificates":

One is form HVS 20122 Rev 1/59 is called "Notification of Birth Registration" from Department of Health, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the seal is NOT raised and Department of Health appears around the top of the seal. On the back it reads "The purpose of this notification is to show what has been recorded on the original certificate and to afford an opportunity to make corrections if they are needed....." Note also that this has the names of my parents on it.

The other is form H105 105 (Rev. 2-83) is called "Certification of Birth" and was issued 03/07/84 and this has a raised seal from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Department of Health (Commonwealth of PA appears around the top of the raised seal). On the back it reads "The information appearing on the certified copy of birth is exactly transcribed from information contained on the original birth certificate as filed with the Office of Vital Records...." Note also that this DOES NOT have the names of my parents on it.


Both have fold lines from being mailed to my parents.

So I would think BO's would have a raised seal at least since his wasn't obtained until 2007

[Kbentleyis]

ScottVA you're right. I would have thought that getting any type of security clearance for senators would have been an original copy of birth certificate be requested. Can you apply for a visa without one?

I noticed all of his properties are held in his wife's name, which has nothing to do with a birth certificate, but I thought I'd mention it. Probably for secured financial reasons.

[wasGOPnowInd]

a Constitutional Amendment change takes YEARS at best to ever take place... it just wouldn't happen in this situation.

I also never thought that the democratic process would be openly corrupt, as it has been this year. Nor did I ever think that the glass ceiling was actually made of plexiglass.

My point is, and it was intended as sarcasm, is that this election, I have witnessed the most bizarre insanity surrounding this neophyte candidate that I would not put it past them to find a way to make this about race - "the constitution was enacted by white men, and therefore invalid, and therefore we must annoint our King", yada yada - ok sheep, fall in line.

[ScottVA]

Well you guys made me check myself... I have two "certificates":

One is form HVS 20122 Rev 1/59 is called "Notification of Birth Registration" from Department of Health, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the seal is NOT raised and Department of Health appears around the top of the seal. On the back it reads "The purpose of this notification is to show what has been recorded on the original certificate and to afford an opportunity to make corrections if they are needed....." Note also that this has the names of my parents on it.

The other is form H105 105 (Rev. 2-83) is called "Certification of Birth" and was issued 03/07/84 and this has a raised seal from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Department of Health (Commonwealth of PA appears around the top of the raised seal). On the back it reads "The information appearing on the certified copy of birth is exactly transcribed from information contained on the original birth certificate as filed with the Office of Vital Records...." Note also that this DOES NOT have the names of my parents on it.


Both have fold lines from being mailed to my parents.

So I would think BO's would have a raised seal at least since his wasn't obtained until 2007

Mine as well.......I was born in PA too. My record is just that a form showing my birth etc..... the Certificate is like the one you just described....

[ScottVA]

ScottVA you're right. I would have thought that getting any type of security clearance for senators would have been an original copy of birth certificate be requested. Can you apply for a visa without one?

I noticed all of his properties are held in his wife's name, which has nothing to do with a birth certificate, but I thought I'd mention it. Probably for secured financial reasons.

For a Visa all you need is a valid Passport.... BUT he would have had to demonstrate a B.C. to get the Passport.... and he would've had to demonstrate a B.C. to get a drivers license....

[hillary1]

Faked certificate suggests that Obama may not be "natural born" US citizen
By Reuven Koret June 24, 2008
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm


Read the full article at the link above which has a picture Embossed seal of the State of Hawaii absent from the so called "certificate of birth" of Barack Obama.

i thought the government was on top of people and their documentation, i want to renew my license, i need to bring my BIRTH CERTIFICATE, WITH THE SEAL EMBOSSED ON IT, IT IS CALLED AUTHENTICATION

THE TERRORISTS WERE ABLE TO ENTER THIS COUNTRY ON FALSE DOCUMENTATION, WHY IS THE GOVERNMENT NOT ON TOP OF THIS, WHY ARE THEY IGNORING THIS, SO MUCH FOR DOCUMENTATION THEN, WHY DO ANY OF US NEED IT

[Gerry2008]

The way the kool-aid seems to flow lately, if it was true, the Obama camp and the DNC and the MSM would find a way to altar the constitution.

I was thinking that if he's not a natural born citizen, some exception would be pushed through somehow. Should we be afraid? I'm remembering the threats that were made by leaders and citizens concerning the possibility that the SD's would (do their job and) vote for Hillary in spite of Obama's elected delegate count (still not enough BTW). Somehow, this whole affair, regardless of the validity and outcome, will be tagged as racist for sure.

Well now I finally get the change we can... campaign slogan - it means they'll just change anything that gets in their way - rules, the constitution, whatever.

[wasGOPnowInd]

Another article with some very good visual data:
Was Obama's "Certificate of Birth" manufactured? (http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/06/20/was_obamas_certificate_of_birth_manufactured.thtml )

The biggest thing I think that was pointed out was the line near the corners of the certificate. Even the ones you buy at a local office supply store do not have those lines.

[wasGOPnowInd]

I was thinking that if he's not a natural born citizen, some exception would be pushed through somehow. Should we be afraid? I'm remembering the threats that were made by leaders and citizens concerning the possibility that the SD's would (do their job and) vote for Hillary in spite of Obama's elected delegate count (still not enough BTW). Somehow, this whole affair, regardless of the validity and outcome, will be tagged as racist for sure.

Well now I finally get the change we can... campaign slogan - it means they'll just change anything that gets in their way - rules, the constitution, whatever.

It seems that Obama is coated in teflon.

[wasGOPnowInd]

the far right will never go for a non-native born American in the oval office, despite how much they hate McCain!

[Ebinger]

This part of the article REALLY made me suspicious:

The image became increasingly suspect with Israel Insider's revelation that variations of the certificate image were posted on the Photobucket image aggregation website -- including one listing the location of Obama's birth as Antarctica, one with the certificate supposedly issued by the government of North Korea, and another including a purported photo of baby Barack -- one of which has a "photo taken" time-stamp just two minutes before the article and accompanying image was posted on the left-wing Daily Kos blog.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm

???

It came from PhotoBucket?

[PAangelRN]

Look at the difference between the two documents. Both say certifaction of Birth but both do not have the signature and the seal.

I Posted this for people that did not read the article.

http://www.valeehill.net/genealogy/documents/doc_decosta_pat_birth.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

[PAangelRN]

This part of the article REALLY made me suspicious:



http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm

???

It came from PhotoBucket?

Obama also had this image of his "BC" on his stop the smear website. People on photobucket must have uploaded it to photobucket also.

[RachachaSharon]

Both have fold lines from being mailed to my parents.

That's also interesting. I scan stuff all the time and if this certification, which is what I believe it is rather than a certificate, was mailed, the fold lines would likely be visible on the scanned document. Of course, it could have been mailed unfolded; however that would cost more to mail.

I just saw the images. Please note that the DeCosta certification states Date "Accepted" by Registrar, the Obama one says Date "Filed." The version number is the same on both. Of course, there are other obvious differences, such as the border.

[Agent 00½ FL]

I still think this is the reason why he has not left the country.

It is easy to leave but getting back in is another story. If his paperwork passport etc. is not up to date he would not be able to get back in, I have known a couple of people this has happened to.

If he could only take that one way trip out of the US and not get back in.

[ILBlue]

No matter what he has lied again, and used a "Fight the Smears" website to push the lie at everyone to try to keep anyone from knowing he used a Photo shopped fake.

What will it take to wake people up to this Teflon Don, you can not beleive anything he says.

Please God , let him not be a natual born citizen and please get rid of this person once and for all.

[wasGOPnowInd]

The other website, the one the broke down the differences quite plainly, mentioned the line that intersects the border at the corners, and that the font for the certificate, and for the information entered, was the same (not likely with pre-printed forms).

However, if you look closely at this alleged "Decosta" COB, the same thing applies.

I sense a set-up similar to what happened to Dan Rather regarding the GWB service record. The Obama camp could be placing this type of thing out there in the hopes that everyone jumps on it. Then, they come through with the goods, pointing back at their accusers with a "shame on you" retort. The whole thing backfires, and it is a score for Obama. Oldest trick in the book (create a distraction of truth to cover a larger lie), and I suspect that this is exactly that type of distraction.

[Tea toaD]

I can't help but think that NOBODY would be stupid enough to not have the proof of birth in order to run for President. Not even Obama can be that dumb. It's like getting to the finish line at the Olympics, stopping to tie your shoe then let someone else finish ahead of you:confused: It makes no sense but then again none of this does anymore:o

[samkm]

It may just be a way of creating interest.. You know, have an answer and play it up.. Dont forget, he has no real resume... So, what do you do... create interest in some other way. Then come with the original? That way you can say, look they all are racists? Who knows.. It is really all odd. Why would anyone not address their basic qualification right off the gate, and when asked, bring out something that is prima facie questionable.

[PuppyDogMom]

A constitutional amendment would never happen in this case! It would require passage of Congress and 3/4's of 50 States to ratify it.....

50? or 57? I forget...:rolleyes:

[NYVIN4HILL08]

So, bottom line, can the state of Hawaii produce the legal certificate or not???? The answer should take 10 minutes!!!

can't some official in the state of hawaii come up with anything official, it shouldn't be that difficult unlesssssssss.............. he's not a citizen

i mean they came up with a birth certificate for him in africa.

arnold shwartzeneger will be pissed if obbammers not a citizen and gets elected

[Ace]

Wow lol. One of my images made it to a newspaper article lol.

Original HRC Forum post:
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=16505#post180361

Original one:
http://www.2shared.com/file/3429215/ecac6ae6/BO_birthcert.html

One thats now on Photobucket.
http://photobucket.com/image/birth%20certificate%20obama/DoubleJDirect/BO_birthcert.jpg?o=3

That image is getting around!

[Peppermint Patty]

Look at the difference between the two documents. Both say certifaction of Birth but both do not have the signature and the seal.

I Posted this for people that did not read the article.

http://www.valeehill.net/genealogy/documents/doc_decosta_pat_birth.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg


Okay I will jump into the fray here... look at the type at the very bottom of both certificates. Both are versions with (Rev. 11/01) Laser but look at the type difference from the real one to BO's. Also the border width and pattern are different. I'd say fraud was afoot! Call Colonel Mustard and Professor Plum to the Library, stat!!!! :p::D:p

[hipelayne]

Just got this quote from LS's blog and I had to share... hysterical!



Priceless.

That's hilarious! :D:D:p:p

[Nancy Kallitechnis]

Politifact contacted Ms. Okube and she said the document is valid:

"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/13/obamas-birth-certificate/

However, Ms. Okubo received a copy by e-mail so she may have based her statement on looking at the digital file.

[samkm]

Someone asked about need for B.C. to get passport.

A mother can add infant to her passport, and I dont know what the requirements are for that one. This is often done for infant.

Once someone has a passport, it may be a matter of renewal. Again, not sure.

To get our kid's passport, we had to send birth certificate. I dont know if a certificate of birth would have sufficed.

[Musicdude]

Politifact contacted Ms. Okube and she said the document is valid:



However, Ms. Okubo received a copy by e-mail so she may have based her statement on looking at the digital file.

That might contradict the requirements she herself stated the certification must have. She says the one she saw is valid. This goes back to my questions on page 1 of this thread. Apparently the emossed seal is not necessary on all the types of birth certificates, and only on "certified" copies.

I wonder how Okubo would explain the strange border. It's supposed to be different? It's supposed to non-symmetrical?

[samkm]

If we get a Certificate of Birth issued around the same time that would be helpful.

[samkm]

Obama also had this image of his "BC" on his stop the smear website. People on photobucket must have uploaded it to photobucket also.

Here it is. http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert
Can someone take a copy and save?

We were looking at this link and observing that there is absolutely no claim that this is Obama's Certificate of Birth EVEN in that site!! Too clever!

However, I noticed that this image is far crisper on that website than the one posted at DailyKos. http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg

[Ebinger]

Obama also had this image of his "BC" on his stop the smear website. People on photobucket must have uploaded it to photobucket also.


Yeah, I keep going back to:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m35/opendna/HI_birthcert.jpg?t=1213561049

It's an amazing coincedence otherwise...

[Bad Kitty]

O.K. I want to see his birth certificate and NOW. Where were you pooped out BO? Where?

[Santiago]

http://pumaparty.com/forum/images/smilies/iagree.gifIt seems that Obama is coated in teflon.

[JamieKuuipo]

Well you guys made me check myself... I have two "certificates":

One is form HVS 20122 Rev 1/59 is called "Notification of Birth Registration" from Department of Health, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the seal is NOT raised and Department of Health appears around the top of the seal. On the back it reads "The purpose of this notification is to show what has been recorded on the original certificate and to afford an opportunity to make corrections if they are needed....." Note also that this has the names of my parents on it.

The other is form H105 105 (Rev. 2-83) is called "Certification of Birth" and was issued 03/07/84 and this has a raised seal from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Department of Health (Commonwealth of PA appears around the top of the raised seal). On the back it reads "The information appearing on the certified copy of birth is exactly transcribed from information contained on the original birth certificate as filed with the Office of Vital Records...." Note also that this DOES NOT have the names of my parents on it.


Both have fold lines from being mailed to my parents.

So I would think BO's would have a raised seal at least since his wasn't obtained until 2007

Yes, it should have the embossed seal along with the registra stamp with sig Alivin T Onaka Phd-on reverse side---- I am born in Hawaii, checked againt mine...

[JamieKuuipo]

[QUOTE=sudhakm;204665]If we get a Certificate of Birth issued around the same time that would be helpful.[/QUOTE

www.web.Israelinsider.com
The article is correct checked against my own around the same time....BORN IN HAWAII,,,,,,,,,

He is missing the embossed seal, along with the stamp on the reverse side
for registra stamp will sig. Alvin T Onaka phd...

THE OB DOCUMENT IS NOT VALID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE OB DOCUMENT IS NOT VALID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JamieKuuipo]

Politifact contacted Ms. Okube and she said the document is valid:



However, Ms. Okubo received a copy by e-mail so she may have based her statement on looking at the digital file.



THIS IS NOT A VALID CERTIFICATION,,,,, I CHECKED AGAINST MY OWN...FROM HI

[DameLiz]

Let's all think about the passport breech a few months ago - Was that to get a look at the birth certificate submitted? What ever happened to those people?

[ScottVA]

THIS IS NOT A VALID CERTIFICATION,,,,, I CHECKED AGAINST MY OWN...FROM HI

My partner was born in Honolulu and his doesn't look like that either.......but his is older that is black/green paper Still any B.C. would have a signature (machined or otherwise) with a Seal over it......

[samkm]

Scott, does the certificate look more like PATRICIA DECOSTA certificate above?

[JamieKuuipo]

My partner was born in Honolulu and his doesn't look like that either.......but his is older that is black/green paper Still any B.C. would have a signature (machined or otherwise) with a Seal over it......

YUP, MINE IS AROUND THE SAME TIME THAT THE STAMP ON REVERSE SIDE
INDICATES ON BO UNCERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATION.

HAWAII DOSE NOT CHANGE THINGS OFTEN BECAUSE IT COST MONEY,
VERY BACKWORDS...

THE EMBOSSED SEAL IS STILL USED WITH THE REGISTRA STAMP ON REVERSE
SIDE WITH SIG OF REGISTRA ALVIN T ONAKA PHD

MY ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE HAS THE OTHER INFO MOTHER FATHER, DATE OF BIRTH OF PARENTS, AND AGE, THERE ORIGIN, AND THERE OCCUPATIONS, SIG OF DOCTOR, HOSPITAL DELIVERED AT WITH REGISTRA SIGNATURE. AND PARENTS RACE, TIME OF BIRTH AND COUNTY OF BIRTH...
OB is only 3 years younger then me, so these were given out well into the
1990's

OF COURSE BO WILL NOT GIVE US THIS ONE,AND IS ONLY PUTTING THIS UNCERTIFIED COPY OF THE CERTIFICATION OF BIRTH, WHICH IS THE ONLY TYPE THE DEPT OF HEATH IN HONOLULU PUT OUT NOW DUE TO COSTS.....
AGAIN THE BO CERTIFICATION DOSE NOT HAVE THE CERTIFICATION OF THE EMBOSSED SEAL OR REGISTRA SIG STAMP, SO IT IS NOT VALID......

[Jen the Michigander]

Whether or not Obama was born in the USA, I have no idea. But I am convinced that that birth certificate is fake. As it is now, we don't have the info we'd need to disqualify Obama for the presidency, but I think there's enough here already for someone like Hannity or O'Reilly to start hammering away about what's Obama trying to hide. In other words, it's scandal-worthy, if nothing else. Has anyone sent this stuff to them?

[Musicdude]

So politifact.com lied? or misquoted? or what? Two entities make contact with the same person in Dept of health in Hawaii, and come up with two opposing answers. Now what? Best 2 out of 3? 3 out of 5? Split decision on points like in boxing?

My original question still remains - is there such a thing as a Hawaiian uncertified copy that is official, that is issued by an authorized entity. Is there any way that BO's certification can be official - Is there anything we missed?

What is at issue here, first and foremost, is misrepresentation via forgery of a State document. BO is either guilty, or not guilty. I don't want start blogging about a "maybe" situation.

[JamieKuuipo]

So politifact.com lied? or misquoted? or what? Two entities make contact with the same person in Dept of health in Hawaii, and come up with two opposing answers. Now what? Best 2 out of 3? 3 out of 5? Split decision on points like in boxing?

My original question still remains - is there such a thing as a Hawaiian uncertified copy that is official, that is issued by an authorized entity. Is there any way that BO's certification can be official - Is there anything we missed?

What is at issue here, first and foremost, is misrepresentation via forgery of a State document. BO is either guilty, or not guilty. I don't want start blogging about a "maybe" situation.


AND THE ANSWER IS THE ISRAELINSIDER PAGE HAS THE CORRECT INFORMATION......

NO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HAWAIIAN UNCERTIFIED COPY THAT IS OFFICIAL......

OB POSTED THIS UNCERTIFIED COPY FOR I DON'T KNOW WHAT REASON.
ONLY HE KNOWS WHY THIS ONE WAS PUT OUT....

POLITICAL FACT, STATED SHE COMFIRMED THERE WAS ONE OBTAINED AROUND THE SAME TIME AS THE TIME STAMP ONLY.........
OB COULD HAVE OBTAINED ONE, BUT NOT PRESENT THE EXACT ONE TO US...

I AM BORN AND RAISED IN HAWAII, I KNOW THE OFFICE I KNOW THE PEOPLE AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE INFORMATION FROM ISRAELINSIDER IS CORRECT. THE PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE OF THE DEPT OF HEALTH WOULD NEVER GIVE OUT INFORMATION ON THE PHONE TO CONFIRM THAT THE ONE
HE HAD IS VALID WITHOUT THE EMBOSSED SEAL AND SIG OF REGISTRA STAMP ON THE REVERSE SIDE OF ALVIN T ONAKA PHD

THEREFORE ISRAELINSIDER GAVE THE MOST ACCURATE INFORMATION PER
THERE CONFIRMATION THAT THE SEAL AND REGISTRA STAMP MUST BE
PRESENT TO BE A VALID CERTIFIED COPY....

THEY ARE NOT PRESENT ON OB BC, BY HAWAII STATE LAW THESE MUST BE
PRESENT TO BE VALID.........

WE DON'T KNOW WHY OB DOSE NOT PRESENT THE ORIGINAL COPY WITH SEAL AND STAMP, HE NEVER WANTS US TO HAVE ALL THE INFO.

NOTHING SAYS HE HAS TO POST THE ORIGINAL BC OR EVEN A CERTIFIED COPY OF IT. SO HE GOING TO DO WHAT HE WANTS.. AS USUAL.....AND IN HIS WORDS WE JUST GOT TO GET OVER IT......

BO IS PROTECTED BY HAWAII STATE LAW, WE CAN NOT OBTAIN THE CERTIFIED COPY FROM THEM. SO HE KIND OF CAN PUT OUT WHAT HE WANTS.

HE CAN ALWAYS SAY HE WAS PROTECTING HIS PRIVACY BY NOT PUTTING OUT THE
ORIGINAL CERTIFICATE. OR HIS STANDARD I DID NOT KNOW THAT THEY POSTED THIS
COPY THAT IS NOT CERTIFIED... AND FIRE THE STAFF..

[mslas4hillary]

Why won't the media say a word about this!?!?

[JamieKuuipo]

Why won't the media say a word about this!?!?


HIS SMEAR SITE CAMP, HAS THE MEDIA FIGHTING BATTLES, REGARDING
WHAT THEY CAN PRESENT AND WHAT THEY CAN'T

WE CAN NOT VERIFY OR OBTAIN THE INFORMATION FROM THE STATE OF HAWAII...

ONLY THING WE CAN GO ON IS THE COPY DOSE NOT HAVE THE SEAL AND
STAMP.

BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE SMOKING GUN....

[Musicdude]

NO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HAWAIIAN UNCERTIFIED COPY THAT IS OFFICIAL......


.. Then that means that the BO certificate is a complete forgery and never came from the Dept of Health, or any other authorized entity. Correct?

[ScottVA]

Then that means that the BO certificate is a complete forgery and never came from the Dept of Health, or any other authorized entity. Correct?

WELL OF COURSE.........HOW can a man who is a complete fraud have a real birth certificate? LOL

[Musicdude]

WELL OF COURSE.........HOW can a man who is a complete fraud have a real birth certificate? LOL
True. He IS a complete phony. But it's illegal to manufacture a representation of a State document and purport it to be real. Illegal aliens do that with driver's licenses and social security cards and get cuffed 'n stuffed. Jail time.

[JamieKuuipo]

Then that means that the BO certificate is a complete forgery and never came from the Dept of Health, or any other authorized entity. Correct?


Well he's got the look a like form.... To me it looks like alterations were made.

Like they took the form and typed in what they want.
you would think they would add the seal and stamp though.

I get the feeling he trying to hid Father info, may be he was not his father.
The whole thing is just so bizzar (strange)

SOMTHING IS JUST MISSING---

[Musicdude]

The border on yours is not like his though right? I assume yours looks like this..


http://www.valeehill.net/genealogy/documents/doc_decosta_pat_birth.jpg

[JamieKuuipo]

My border is lighter, than the one posted...on bo

THE DARKER BOARDER ON THE SAMPLE IS WAY DARK


NO MY BORDER IS LIGHT NOT LIKE THE SAMPLE, JUST A LITTLE LIGHTER THAN BO.
SAME PATTERN AS THE SAMPLE BUT LIGHTER. THE PATTERN ON THE BO IS DIFFERENT
LARGER, THE PATTERN ON MINE MATCHES THE SAMPLE.

[Musicdude]

Is the *pattern* of the border on yours the same as BO's or the same as the sample, or a 3rd kind of border?

[samkm]

My border is lighter, than the one posted...on bo

THE DARKER BOARDER ON THE SAMPLE IS WAY DARK


NO MY BORDER IS LIGHT NOT LIKE THE SAMPLE, JUST A LITTLE LIGHTER THAN BO.
SAME PATTERN AS THE SAMPLE BUT LIGHTER. THE PATTERN ON THE BO IS DIFFERENT
LARGER, THE PATTERN ON MINE MATCHES THE SAMPLE.

Jamie, pls confirm that when you say SAMPLE you mean the "PATRICIA DECOSTA" certification of birth that is shown.

In that case, your certificate has a border that matches PATRICIA DECOSTA's certificate. Please confirm.

Which year was your issued? Is there an embossing and is there a seal and signature on the back side? and a date stamp? Thanks

[Musicdude]

Jaime's has the seal and signature on the back.

[Musicdude]

The fact that there are 3 different shades of borders being discussed is disconcerting. BO's copy is very different in terms of measurements compared to the DeCosta copy. Forgetting the border pattern for a moment, the letters do not align the same on the two copies, at the bottom.
The DeCosta border is shifted to the left, BO's is centered (almost), and inside the border, where there should be exacting measurements - there aren't on BO's copy. This might mean that the State changed its form during 2002 to 2007, especially since Jaime's border is lighter than BO's certificate and DeCosta's.

As is stands though, I do know that BO could not be employed in California based on the certificate he presents. It's the equivalent of fake ID, and therefore not legal.

[LadyVT]

I thought we already established that the font on the BO certificate is from a computer (no computers when BO was born) and in typeface Arial with a recent date stamp on the back. If the State of HI says they don't send out electronic copies (and certainly not RETYPED electronic "copies") then obviously the Obama campaign is lying. Obviously, they do not have a genuine birth certificate to present. One with a seal on it. Not in a typeface that was not in existence when BO was born.

[Mrs L]

This may have already been mentioned but could this be why his passport information was entered and those people were fired?

Were they looking to see if he had produced a birth certificate or a date?

[Lillian]

I sense a set-up similar to what happened to Dan Rather regarding the GWB service record. The Obama camp could be placing this type of thing out there in the hopes that everyone jumps on it. Then, they come through with the goods, pointing back at their accusers with a "shame on you" retort. The whole thing backfires, and it is a score for Obama. Oldest trick in the book (create a distraction of truth to cover a larger lie), and I suspect that this is exactly that type of distraction.

I have a sneaking suspicion this is what's happening. I remember recently the Obama trolls on NoQuarter repeatedly kept querying his birth certificate in all the posts. It was quite irritating. Then this story breaks... hmmmmm:confused::confused::confused:

[Charlie Brown]

I have a sneaking suspicion this is what's happening. I remember recently the Obama trolls on NoQuarter repeatedly kept querying his birth certificate in all the posts. It was quite irritating. Then this story breaks... hmmmmm:confused::confused::confused:

Thats what the Obama campaign has been doing all along...What do you think all his racism is about...distractions and untruths...Lets keep Bill Clinton off his game and call him a racist because we all know he is....Brill.....No one thought Hillary would find her Voice....Now they have 2 Brilliant Clintons to take down...resulting in a broke DNC and Obammer worried about funds also...I just wonder how much cash George Soros is planning on couphing up for this guy??? He's the one to fear...Also I wonder how much CNNs rating have tanked....I hardly doubt those college students are hanging around all summer watching CNN....LOL!

[JamieKuuipo]

I thought we already established that the font on the BO certificate is from a computer (no computers when BO was born) and in typeface Arial with a recent date stamp on the back. If the State of HI says they don't send out electronic copies (and certainly not RETYPED electronic "copies") then obviously the Obama campaign is lying. Obviously, they do not have a genuine birth certificate to present. One with a seal on it. Not in a typeface that was not in existence when BO was born.


Ladyvt,

You are correct, the bo copy is computer printed, so is mine thats how they
print them out now.. The bo certification is printed 2006 if my memory of the
date stamp is correct, on the reverse side mine is printed 2007..
All the birth certifications now are computer generated....The date stamp is
the day we received certification. This costs $10.00


If he presented the original birth certificate that was given out in the 1961 or
well into the 1980's it would have had the additional info on the family, race,
Mother and father date of birth, origin of Mother and Father, there address
Mother and father occupation, time and county of birth. Dr. signature,
hospital information. It would also have sig of parents, sig of local registra deputy
with date stamp, and birth place of parents! THE CERTIFICATE NO THAT IS BLACKED
OUT IS THE ACTUAL FILE NUMBER OF THE ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE WITH THE YEAR
LIKE IS SHOULD BE 151 YEAR OF BIRTH 1961 WITH THE FILE NUMBER 5 DIGITS 00000
TO LOCATE THE ORIGINAL......

The Dept of Health switched the type they give out to the samples you see
here, the certification of Live Birth due to cost.....
So if you did not have an earlier copy of the birth record with the additional
info, you could not obtain this type now....

I have both types.....

After examining mine:
My pattern matches Patricia Decosta, but it is not dark, it is lighter.
Ob pattern is much more open not tight pattern like mine and patricia's.
Yes, mine has the date stamp, embossed seal, and the registra stamp with
the sig. of Alvin T Onaka phd. Like Patricia's

The Dept of Health, has the embossed seal and stamp on everything they
certify, marriage, death all the documents have to have this to be valid.
From 1958 to now.......Because I was born 3 years before OB I can confirm
this....

REMEMBER THE STATE OF HAWAII DOSE NOT CHANGE THINGS, OFTEN,
THE PATTERN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CHANGED.

THE OB BC IS NOT VALID WITHOUT THE EMBOSSED SEAL AND STAMP.

TO ME IT APPEARS THEY COPYIED, ALTERATIONS WERE MADE, BECAUSE WHEN I COPY MINE THE EMBOSSED SEAL DOSE NOT SHOW, BUT THE STAMP
SHOULD SHOW ON THE REVERSE SIDE...

IS'NT POSSIBLE THAT HE INTENTIONALLY POSTED THIS WITHOUT THE CERTIFICATIONS, SEAL AND STAMP, BECAUSE CHANGES WERE MADE!!
FOR PUBLICATION PURPOSES.... IF ITS NOT CERTIFIED WITH SEAL AND STAMP HE COULD MAKE CHANGES AND IT NOT BE CONSIDERED FORGED??????? BUT WEIRD BECAUSE THEY LFT THE DATE STAMP.

[Bacio83]

http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg

BO's for those who want to compare... there is a date on the back that says Nov 9 2007 if that helps anyone.

[Musicdude]

POLITICAL FACT, STATED SHE COMFIRMED THERE WAS ONE OBTAINED AROUND THE SAME TIME AS THE TIME STAMP ONLY.........
..


Actually Politifact refers to the same copy BO presented on his site - the same one we've been looking at.

To verify we did indeed have the correct document, we contacted the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records.

"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008, after we e-mailed her our copy.


The new mystery is, why did the Dept. of Health say its valid without an embossed seal and signature of certification.

[JamieKuuipo]

Actually Politifact refers to the same copy BO presented on his site - the same one we've been looking at.



The new mystery is, why did the Dept. of Health say its valid without an embossed seal and signature of certification.

Politifac reference to the women confirming valid in fact can not be TRUE
The Israelinsider, confirmed what we Hawaiians all know been born and raised
there, that in order for a bc to be valid it must, it must , it must , it must
it must, it must , it must it must, have the seal and the stamp....

If politifac sent her one with seal and stamp, than why is that not the one
presented??????????????????????????????????? Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suggest for piece of mind, call Dept of Health and ask if these need to be
present to be valid??????????????????????????????????

[samkm]

The original article quoted above in the first post has a quote from Hawaii DOH communication person indicating that the embossed seal and signature+seal on the back are requirements of a valid certification of birth document.

[wasGOPnowInd]

Okay I will jump into the fray here... look at the type at the very bottom of both certificates. Both are versions with (Rev. 11/01) Laser but look at the type difference from the real one to BO's. Also the border width and pattern are different. I'd say fraud was afoot! Call Colonel Mustard and Professor Plum to the Library, stat!!!! :p::D:p

I say we are being played here by the Obama camp, and it is working.

[JamieKuuipo]

The original article quoted above in the first post has a quote from Hawaii DOH communication person indicating that the embossed seal and signature+seal on the back are requirements of a valid certification of birth document.


THANKYOU SUDHAKM THANKYOU SUDHAKM THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mkreyns]

I say we are being played here by the Obama camp, and it is working.

what about the terrorist threat and execution coming from the inside?

I think that is what BO's position is all about anymore!

[Agent 00½ FL]

Regarding the embossed seal, the only way you can get it to show is by taking a pencil and rubbing over the top. I have recorded official documents in the past and this is the only way you can get it to show on a scanned image. My guess on the date on the back is that it was dated when it was received by whoever opens BHO mails. Not sure if this information helps.

[JamieKuuipo]

Regarding the embossed seal, the only way you can get it to show is by taking a pencil and rubbing over the top. I have recorded official documents in the past and this is the only way you can get it to show on a scanned image. My guess on the date on the back is that it was dated when it was received by whoever opens BHO mails. Not sure if this information helps.


Ok if the seal could not be scanned, why is patrica embossed image shows up.
Still lacking in OB is the stamp with sig of registra should show up on reverse
side along with the date.. It is not present.
The date stamp on the reverse side is part of Dept of Health procedure for
showing when the certification was obtained....

[Musicdude]

If politifac sent her one with seal and stamp, than why is that not the one
presented??????????????????????????????????? Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
?
I understand what you are saying, but it would have been illogoical for Politifact to deliberately send the wrong certificate for verification. They are cleary showing BO's certificate that was in question, and also stating that they used it to make the inquiry. The same person that said it is valid, is the same person that claims certificates require the embossed seal and signature.
Therein lies the contradiction. Both sides therefore have arguments in their favor, and the Obots will use the one they need. This, in effect, continues to keep the issue inconclusive.

For us to claim BO's certificate is conclusively a fake, we would have to also claim that Politifact had the image of BO's certificate, wanted to know if it was real, and to find out if it was real they sent an image of a completely different certificate. This would in turn mean that we are claiming Politifact to be either deliberately manipulative, or incredibly stupid. As it stands, the only thing we know at the moment is that the alleged document does not appear have the proper state certification to deem it a "certified copy".

[Agent 00½ FL]

Doesn't one applying for nomination for president have to submit some kind of "official" application? Information to be verified by FBI or some government entity. If not, and BHO birth certificate is a fake it will come out at sometime. Once again the USA will be a laughing stock of the World.

[Area504]

Either Obama is really stupid, or he really thinks we are.

Most of us here suspected that "birth certificate" of his was a Photoshopped Phony from the get-go. It certainly couldn't be used as proof of anything, what with the lack of a raised seal or signature, and it just looked wrong.

Did he not realize that someone would eventually come up with a real, valid "Certification of Live Birth" from the State of Hawaii? And when that happened (and it has) did he not realize that it would prove his to be a joke? Are the Obamabots going to continue to stand by this bullspit now?

Or will they predictably say we're acting like "racists" again, harassing him over this issue? :mad:

[JamieKuuipo]

Doesn't one applying for nomination for president have to submit some kind of "official" application? Information to be verified by FBI or some government entity. If not, and BHO birth certificate is a fake it will come out at sometime. Once again the USA will be a laughing stock of the World.

no FBI, Presidents are given security clearance

see www.wnd.com (http://www.wnd.com)

go to writer corsi--- see article ob hawaii communist connections and click
on hawaii you will see tward the middle of 2nd page Presidents are not required to have the fbi check, just given clearence....SUCKS

[Musicdude]

Regarding the embossed seal, the only way you can get it to show is by taking a pencil and rubbing over the top. I have recorded official documents in the past and this is the only way you can get it to show on a scanned image. .
I just called a client who handles thousands of documents like that, and they confirmed that embossed seals do not always show up on a scan or copy. It depends on how firm the seal was stamped onto the document AND the lightness/darkness settings on equipment that is creating the image of the document. therefore, perhaps the DeCosta embossed seal may not have shown up if the settings created a much lighter copy.

[Agent 00½ FL]

no FBI, Presidents are given security clearance

see www.wnd.com (http://www.wnd.com)

go to writer corsi--- see article ob hawaii communist connections and click
on hawaii you will see tward the middle of 2nd page Presidents are not required to have the fbi check, just given clearence....SUCKS


I am sure OHB did he homework on this one too. Probably has a whole underground network of people researching what he can get away with.

[HILLARYCLINTONRULES]

omg Obama is awful

[JamieKuuipo]

I understand what you are saying, but it would have been illogoical for Politifact to deliberately send the wrong certificate for verification. They are cleary showing BO's certificate that was in question, and also stating that they used it to make the inquiry. The same person that said it is valid, is the same person that claims certificates require the embossed seal and signature.
Therein lies the contradiction. Both sides therefore have arguments in their favor, and the Obots will use the one they need. This, in effect, continues to keep the issue inconclusive.

For us to claim BO's certificate is conclusively a fake, we would have to also claim that Politifact had the image of BO's certificate, wanted to know if it was real, and to find out if it was real they sent an image of a completely different certificate. This would in turn mean that we are claiming Politifact to be either deliberately manipulative, or incredibly stupid. As it stands, the only thing we know at the moment is that the alleged document does not appear have the proper state certification to deem it a "certified copy".

Music dude, BREAKING NEWS

Yu had some good points to check out so I went back and re read both articles::

Politifact and Israelinsider

Israelinsider posted 6/26 additional info on ORIG article where they contacted okubo in Hawaii and point blank asked if she confirmed the Politifact BO birth certification to be valid when e-mailed to her...

READ HER ANSWER TO ISRAELINSIDER READ HER ANSWER ON THAT QUESTION!!! LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS THINK!!

KEEP SOMTHING IN MIND WHEN YOU READ HER ANSWER 65% OF HAWAII IN THE TANK
FOR BO EVEN MY OWN SISTER.....

[Mrs L]

Quote:
According to Hawaiian law that was in effect at the time of his birth, if only one parent is an American citizen, then he/she had to have lived in the US for at least 10 yrs, 5 of which would have to be after the 14th birthdate. She was a few months short of 19. Her birthday is 11/29/42. So he wouldn't be an automatic "natural-born" citizen as required by the constitution to run for POTUSA.

Okay has anyone confirmed if this is true?
If so why isn't something being done about it??

http://www.teen-aid.org/State_Resourses/Hawaii.htm

Does anyone know what is going on and if he is a confirmed American Citizen?

[PhillyGuy1]

...
After examining mine:
My pattern matches Patricia Decosta, but it is not dark, it is lighter.
Ob pattern is much more open not tight pattern like mine and patricia's.
Yes, mine has the date stamp, embossed seal, and the registra stamp with
the sig. of Alvin T Onaka phd. Like Patricia's

The Dept of Health, has the embossed seal and stamp on everything they
certify, marriage, death all the documents have to have this to be valid.
From 1958 to now.......Because I was born 3 years before OB I can confirm
this....

REMEMBER THE STATE OF HAWAII DOSE NOT CHANGE THINGS, OFTEN,
THE PATTERN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CHANGED.

THE OB BC IS NOT VALID WITHOUT THE EMBOSSED SEAL AND STAMP.

TO ME IT APPEARS THEY COPYIED, ALTERATIONS WERE MADE, BECAUSE WHEN I COPY MINE THE EMBOSSED SEAL DOSE NOT SHOW, BUT THE STAMP
SHOULD SHOW ON THE REVERSE SIDE...
[PHP]]

What you say here was very key, Jamie. The genuine Patrica DeCosta birth certification shown above in msg #82 in this thread has the same border pattern as yours though darker and completely different than the Obama border pattern.
Notice that another genuine one has the same border pattern as the DeCosta one and different from Obama's. I posted it here:

(June 19, 2008) Was Obama's "Certificate of Birth" manufactured? (Great Evil)
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showpost.php?p=203531&postcount=82

Also both the two genuine ones use the phrase "Date Accepted by State Registrar" while Obama's says "Date filed by Registrar".

Can you confirm that yours also says "Date Accepted by State Registrar"?
Since the DeCosta one was printed in 2002 and the other genuine one I mentioned was printed in 2003 an argument could be made that Hawaii might have changed the border pattern and phrasing in 2007, the year Obama's was printed. But you say yours was also printed in 2007, the same year as Obama's. So if yours from the same year as Obama's agrees with theirs and not Obama's that would be a major discrepancy.


PhillyGuy1

[Agent 00½ FL]

I found this website on line:

ReportIllegals.com

It says its an anonymous way to report suspected illegal aliens.

I think at this point it is highly suspect that he is illegal.

[JamieKuuipo]

10-4 phillyGuy1

My certification of live birth printed in 2007 states

Date filed by Registrar
date and year

But my original certificate with all the other , ie parents age, occupation, Dr sig and parents sig and registrar sig with other info.

States
Date accepted by local reg
date and year
with the sig of the registrar of the same date and year

same date and year on both documents...

It may have been changed because the signature stamp of registrar on back of the 2007 copy states I certify this is a true copy or abstract of the record on file in The Hawaii state Dept of Health Alvin T. Onaka, phd state registrar

So the date accepted was acctual 3 day after birth.
Where as the date filed is more appropiate language for the latter copy of
a certification of live birth...

Jamie

[JamieKuuipo]

I found this website on line:

ReportIllegals.com

It says its an anonymous way to report suspected illegal aliens.

I think at this point it is highly suspect that he is illegal.


this is too funny

[indigo]

Did you see the update at http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm

UPDATE 6/26:
Janice Okubo, in response to an Israeli Insider question on Tuesday, would not confirm nor deny whether she had told a St. Petersburg Times reporter whether she had said the birth certificate was “real”, citing the statutory stipulation that “Hawaii state law (HRS §338-18) prevents disclosure of information contained in vital statistics records except to those people who have a direct and tangible interest in the record as defined by statute.” This would, however, seem to negate the propriety of any disclosure by her of confidential information.

Jim Geraghty of The National Review Online, following up on this Israel Insider report, said he had contacted Okubo:

“I spoke to Ms. Okubo late Wednesday afternoon, and she said she had seen the version of Obama’s certificate of live birth posted on the sites. While her office cannot verify the information on a form without the permission of the certificate holder (Obama), she said “the form is exactly the same” and it has ‘all the components of a birth certificate’ record issued by the state. In other words, she sees no reason to think the version posted on Obama’s web site and Daily Kos is not genuine.”

“The ‘embossed seal’ in question is, she said, probably on the back of the document provided to Daily Kos, but not visible (as in another certificate posted on Israel Insider for contrast). She thinks the difference in visibility can be attributed to the pressure used when applying the seal.”

Geraghty’s interpretation of Okubo’s comments is inexact and tendentious. First, her observation that “the form is the same” is not contested, here or elsewhere. No one is doubting that the form that appears on the various websites (including this one) is a replica of that used for valid certificates. Therefore Geraght’s interpretation that follows “In other words” is clearly his own conclusion, not hers.

Indeed, Okubo confirms to Geraghty that the image is lacking the “embossed seal” (and the official signature) that are required for the certificate to be valid. While “she thinks” that the difference in visibility might be attributed to varying “pressure,” she admits that she does not know and has not seen the original.

Contrasting the purported Obama image with the DeCosta sample, it is hard to imagine the embossed seal and signature being of such light pressure that they would become completely invisible. An inked date of June 6, 2007, in reverse, does come through. But in any event, Okubo’s confirmation that the premsumptive birth certificate is lacking the required stamps makes it all the more imperative for Obama to release the original paper certification, the only valid kind, and not an easy-to-photoshop electronic facsimile thereof. It should not be hard to produce, since Hawaii provides for family members to request them.

Even though Geraghy notes that Obama “initially refused to provide his birth certificate,” he has suggested that it is “rather unlikely” that Obama was born in Kenya, since it would require that the candidate and his family do a lot of lying. In fact, there were reports of Kenyati relatives claiming he was born there, and there is the mysterious disappearance of his grandmother, who may indeed know something about this subject.

After all, being born in Hawaii is part of the “family legend” and it would be unreasonable to expect this to vary from interview to interview, especially when a non-Hawaiian birth would invalidate Obama’s run for the presidency.

It is indeed hard to believe that Obama could have gone through his life without having to prove that he was an American citizen. But the credulity with which the mainstream media has automatically accepted as valid the image that appears on the radical left Daily Kos blog and on the Obama campaign’s polemical “Fight the Smears” website makes it clear that many have been unwilling, now and in the past, to demand proof of an authentic document. They prefer to accept on faith that the candidate or his campaign would not lie about such a thing, assuming he has nothing to hide and no motive to lie.

But until the certified paper birth document is produced — either by media pressure or a legal challenge in any state — the fact remains that Obama has not proven that he is a “natural born citizen” eligible to be President according to the Constitution.

[SadStateOfAffairs]

Per LJ at No Quarter.....

He has now been refered to Hawaii's Attorney General's office. DOH will no longer answer tough questions regarding certification.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

[PhillyGuy1]

I joined an Hawaii oriented discussion group to get some feedback on the validity of Obama's birth certification. Someone on there posted theirs:

http://tomo-dachi.net/pics/misc/BC.jpg

Here's the link to that discussion forum:

About the Obama birth certificate controversy.
http://www.hawaiitalks.net/showthread.php?t=39457&page=2

Notice the borders resemble the Patricia DeCosta genuine certification and don't look like Obama's. The state seal is also clearly visible but it should be said the registrar's signature stamp is only barely visible even when you blow up the image.
Note also this one says "Date accepted by state registrar" like the Patricia DeCosta one and unlike Obama's. It looks like this one is from 2008, so should have been very similar to Obama's yet it is most like the known genuine DeCosta one and unlike Obama's.


PhillyGuy1

[Bad Kitty]

Per LJ at No Quarter.....

He has now been refered to Hawaii's Attorney General's office. DOH will no longer answer tough questions regarding certification.

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

hmmm. I wonder why.

[PhillyGuy1]

I joined an Hawaii oriented discussion group to get some feedback on the validity of Obama's birth certification. Someone on there posted theirs:

http://tomo-dachi.net/pics/misc/BC.jpg

Here's the link to that discussion forum:

About the Obama birth certificate controversy.
http://www.hawaiitalks.net/showthread.php?t=39457&page=2

Notice the borders resemble the Patricia DeCosta genuine certification and don't look like Obama's. The state seal is also clearly visible but it should be said the registrar's signature stamp is only barely visible even when you blow up the image.
Note also this one says "Date accepted by state registrar" like the Patricia DeCosta one and unlike Obama's. It looks like this one is from 2008, so should have been very similar to Obama's yet it is most like the known genuine DeCosta one and unlike Obama's.


PhillyGuy1

Correction. The date for the one on this Hawaii discussion forum was from 2003. So we still need to see one from 2007 or 2008 to compare to Obama's.

PhillyGuy1

[EngCindy]

Jamie:

Have you checked the local newspapers for birth announcements ?

I assume Honolulu newspapers had them.

I think the problem with the birth certificate, is there may be a "delayed" version; as in, as if he were born at home. Also, would there be "illegitimate" for the father, since the marriage wasn't legal ?

Too many questions and him stalling.

What about his mothers passport ? Can you retreive information about that, if the person is deceased ? Or a family member only, again ?

[SadStateOfAffairs]

Jamie:

Have you checked the local newspapers for birth announcements ?

I assume Honolulu newspapers had them.

I think the problem with the birth certificate, is there may be a "delayed" version; as in, as if he were born at home. Also, would there be "illegitimate" for the father, since the marriage wasn't legal ?

Too many questions and him stalling.

What about his mothers passport ? Can you retreive information about that, if the person is deceased ? Or a family member only, again ?

Yes. It would be nice to know his mother's itinerary for this time period.

[Agent 00½ FL]

Talk on the news is that BHO is going to be taking a trip oversees; Iraq, France, Germany, Israel, Jordan and the United Kingdom. Maybe we can lock him out if he doesn't have the correct papers.

[Wyoming Dem]

Jamie:

Have you checked the local newspapers for birth announcements ?

I assume Honolulu newspapers had them.

I think the problem with the birth certificate, is there may be a "delayed" version; as in, as if he were born at home. Also, would there be "illegitimate" for the father, since the marriage wasn't legal ?

Too many questions and him stalling.

What about his mothers passport ? Can you retreive information about that, if the person is deceased ? Or a family member only, again ?
I was born at home and could not get a birth certificate.I used my baptisimal certificate to get a drivers license and a social security card. I am 58. When I applied for a passport, I had to send in THE ORIGINALS of my highschool diploma, my college diploma, copies of report cards from elementary school (honest to God) my original social security card and I still have one uncle living who had to do a sworn affidavit saying he was there when I was born. On the other hand, my son had a birthcertificate and even 'tho technically, "I did not exist" they were fine giving him a passport.

[SadStateOfAffairs]

OMG! It's techno warfare. Battle of the Cyber BOTS. You've got to see this over at No Quarter. You know what happens when you try to cover your lies? You get BUSTED!

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/30/breaking-kos-tampering-with-obama-birth-certificate/#more-3346

[PhillyGuy1]

Someone posted on the Sean Hannity forums that in some states a presidential candidate must present signed, notarized affidavits affirming they satisfy all legal requirements for the office:

Quote:
Washington:
"And, at the time of filing this declaration, I am legally qualified to assume office if elected."

Quote:
Nevada:
"that I will qualify for the office if elected thereto, including, but not limited to, complying with any limitation prescribed by the Constitution"

Quote:
New Hampshire:
The declaration of intent for President and Vice President shall be in the following form:
RSA 655:17-b. I, ___________, declare that I am domiciled in the city (or town or unincorporated place) of ____________, county of ____________, state of ________________, and am a qualified voter therein; that I intend to be a candidate for the office of _________________________ to be chosen at the general election to be held on the fourth day of November, 2008; and I intend to file nomination papers by the deadline established under RSA 655:43. I further declare that, if qualified as a candidate for said office, I shall not withdraw; and that, if elected, I shall be qualified for and shall assume the duties of said office. [Declaration of Intent shall be signed by the candidate and notarized by a notary public]

Quote:
Wisconsin:
"and I meet or will meet at the time I assume office the applicable age, citizenship, residency and voting qualification requirements, if any, prescribed by the constitutions and laws of the United States and the State of Wisconsin, and that I will otherwise qualify for office, if nominated and elected."
http://165.189.88.185/docview.asp?docid=1839&locid=47

A declarer can face perjury charges if he knowingly makes false statements in a notarized affidavit:

Affidavit.
"An affidavit is a formal sworn statement of fact, signed by the declarant (who is called the affiant or deponent) and witnessed (as to the veracity of the affiant's signature) by a taker of oaths, such as a notary public. The name is Medieval Latin for he has declared upon oath.
Uses of affidavits include:
* To allow evidence to be gathered from witnesses or participants who may not be available to testify in person before the court, or who may otherwise fear for their safety if their true identities are revealed in court.
* To obtain a declaration on a legal document, such as an application for voter registration, that the information provided by the applicant is truthful to the best of the applicant's knowledge. If, after signing such a declaration, the information is found to be deliberately untrue with the intent to deceive, the applicant may face perjury charges."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affidavit

Given the information that his birth certification is not a certified document, a legitimate legal case could be made that he nay have perjured himself. Then his legitimacy on the ballots for the primaries in those states could be challenged in court, as well as for the future ballots in the general election.
Something similar was done by Obama himself when he had all his challengers in the first election he won in Illinois removed on the grounds that their petitioning signatures could not be validated.


PhillyGuy1

[xfiles]

Obama's doesn't have the bold black border either. Did the form change recently? Anyone know?

Look at the difference between the two documents. Both say certifaction of Birth but both do not have the signature and the seal.

I Posted this for people that did not read the article.

http://www.valeehill.net/genealogy/documents/doc_decosta_pat_birth.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg

[JamieKuuipo]

My 2007 printed Birth Certification from Hawaii has the same pattern
as Decosta's except it is not dark, its lighter.

The BHO border in not the same it has an more open pattern, where as
mine matches the Decostas Pattern.

[SadStateOfAffairs]

Someone at No Quarter just sent a "Freedom of Information" request to the Hawaiian DOH and AG. Also, it appears that there are 2 different certifications out there.

http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/06/30/the_great_obama_birth_certificate_debate_who_has_t he_edge.thtml

[JamieKuuipo]

I was born at home and could not get a birth certificate.I used my baptisimal certificate to get a drivers license and a social security card. I am 58. When I applied for a passport, I had to send in THE ORIGINALS of my highschool diploma, my college diploma, copies of report cards from elementary school (honest to God) my original social security card and I still have one uncle living who had to do a sworn affidavit saying he was there when I was born. On the other hand, my son had a birthcertificate and even 'tho technically, "I did not exist" they were fine giving him a passport.

The main state library in Honolulu located @ s.Bertania st.:

Has micro fish birth records 1909 - 1949 the latter years are not released do
to the privacy act.

There is a delayed birth index at the library that goes to 1970
These are records of births that were not born at hospital or
delayed in reporting birth for some other reason.


They do not index birth records from newspaper articles only death index.up to 1989.

From the 1800 to well into the 1950 birth records were done by missonaries,
and the mormans.

The dept of Health started in 1896 to which they indexed all the birth records.
available.

There is a ancestry data base at library linked to social security records.
released only if person is deaceased.
Like web sites cindilist that link to sos security data base.


unless he is in the delayed birth index, no way to check year 1961
since there is not a newspaper index for birth record announcments
only death.

It was not common practice to put birth announcments in paper.
It was strickly what ever type thing.


For more info about what is kept at the library 808 586-3500
ask for Hawaiian pacific info.

[JamieKuuipo]

Jamie:

Have you checked the local newspapers for birth announcements ?

I assume Honolulu newspapers had them.

I think the problem with the birth certificate, is there may be a "delayed" version; as in, as if he were born at home. Also, would there be "illegitimate" for the father, since the marriage wasn't legal ?

Too many questions and him stalling.

What about his mothers passport ? Can you retreive information about that, if the person is deceased ? Or a family member only, again ?

Engcindy,
See answer below... jamie

[SadStateOfAffairs]

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/07/03/update-daily-kos-an-obama-activist-and-forged-birth-certificates/

[Peppermint Patty]

I can't believe how hard it is to prove or disprove this!!!

[SadStateOfAffairs]

I can't believe how hard it is to prove or disprove this!!!

The thing about Barack is that he is such a sly coniveing politician, that you don't know if this is a red herring or a real problem for him.

Until we know who is in charge of validating and verifying the Birth Certificate, we will be chasing our tails. Does anyone know who verifies such things?

[xfiles]

So is it a certainty this is a forgery? His this information been sent to the media and others?

I'm going to post it on my PUMA Call to Action Forum at the 1st link in my signature.

[SadStateOfAffairs]

So is it a certainty this is a forgery? His this information been sent to the media and others?

I'm going to post it on my PUMA Call to Action Forum at the 1st link in my signature.

No one knows. It has been closely followed by Israeli Insider and No Quarter. No One seems to know who can verify his certificate. That's what our country needs to know. Who is in charge of checking and verifing documentation of citizenship when it comes to POTUS.

Here's Larry Johnsons credentials. (Blogspot...No Quarter)

From 1985 through September 1989 Mr. Johnson worked for the Central
Intelligence Agency. During his distinguished career, he received
training in paramilitary operations, worked in the Directorate of
Operations, served in the CIA’s Operation’s Center, and established
himself as a prolific analyst in the Directorate of Intelligence. In
his final year with the CIA he received two Exceptional Performance
Awards.

If he cannot get information, who can?

[Bad Kitty]

I can't believe how hard it is to prove or disprove this!!!

I know. It probably would be a whole lot easier if him and his campaign hadn't paid everybody off.