A Question for all of you, please

[Area504]

First, a little disclosure: I was formerly registered GOP a long time ago, since turned libertarian/independent when the GOP sold itself out to neocons.

I supported John Kerry in the last election, and I supported Ron Paul for 2008 until it became impossible for him to win. I now support Hillary 100%; IMO she is the best of the 3 candidates left standing without a doubt.

I have always supported civil rights and equal treatment for all, between genders and among racial lines. I spoke out against what I saw as bigoted statements by Jeremiah Wright on a far-left leaning message board, and have been called out as a racist and a bigot myself for my trouble. This happened within the hour, and I'm still a little stung by the accusation as I once considered the person (who is also the administrator of said message board) who said this about me a good friend.

My question to all of you is this: if Jeremiah Wright were not Barack Obama’s pastor, would most of you still see his comments as bigoted? If not, why do you think it is that many on the political left can only see racist statements made by whites against blacks as troubling and not the other way around as well?

Am I crazy for thinking that bigotry must be stopped from blacks and whites alike, if we are to get along together in this country and in this world???

[Ohio mom]

Well I think that Wright was a catalyst to finding out the real obama...If Wright hadn't been exposed then none of the comments Obama made afterwards would have been said...But I have always thought he was totally sexist, so my opinion would still have been the same and I would still have been for Hillary...Before all that came out, I was praying for some skeleton to jump out of his closet and say "tah-dah" !!! :p And yes the double-standard on bigotry must stop coming from both the black community as well as the white community. It is unfair!!!

[joeylee]

Hi Area*,
I agree 100%, it certainly does work both ways, period. Just as an example, the comment made by "BO" refferring to his Grandmother as a "typical white person", if the opposite were said, IE; "typical black person", one would be hung by his/her "blanks".

JoeyLee*

[Dawnelle]

I am offended when ANY religious organization gets POLITICAL and think their tax status should be yanked! I worked for years at 2 Episcopal Churches and NEVER did they utter a THING political during any elections in their bulletins or service.

This very divisive "church" is furthering the hate. I see NOTHING Chrisitian about any of it. Nor do I believe Obama found Christ. But that's jmo.

[Dawnelle]

I agree and it also explains his WIFE's nasty behavior! She's more brainwashed than he is!

And they're trying to brainwash the rest of America's youth. Pied Piper indeed!

Not if I have anything to VOTE for!!
GO HILLARY!!

[Dawnelle]

and would someone PLEASE TELL ME - -

WHAT THE HAY IS WRONG WITH OPRAH??????

YIKES!! I mean she's never appeared to ME to be so dense.
Kennedy, yes, Kerry, definitely, Oprah??? no, oh well.

(snarky me) ;-)

must be why I put up with Carville

[Christines]

Obama uses words to smoothly impact people but not answer the questions. He pointed out to the audience that there is racism and we are to blame, but he continues to say he is a unifier for all. He never answered why he remained with Pastor Wright for 20 years and didn't walk out of the sermons!
He focused on the race issue! Very clever of him!
I am afraid that we just caught a glimpse of the real Obama! There is much more to uncover. I hope that it isn't too late!

[B positive]

racism, no matter which way it flows, is just plain wrong!


YES!
1. I am offended by what Wright said
2. I am offended that these videos were sold for profit as a DVD boxed set entitled: The Best of Rev. Wright
3. I am offended that someone who regularly attends these types of gatherings would think he could successfully represent US citizens
4. I am offended that party leaders knew of this fatal flaw and propped him up anyhow... as if they were trying to destroy our party!
5. I am saddened that the pendulum has swung so far backward that these racist/anti-american remarks are made in public with hands & voices raised in approval.

The wknd that these videos came to my attention was a deeply disturbing time for me:(

[Tea toaD]

I would consider him racist even if O didn't attend his church and this came out like it did. He was a big factor in Obama running for President. Obama has said this himself. What get's me about Rev. Wright and his issues on the whites is that he forget's that whites marched right along side of the blacks for segregation in the 60's and even now they are a factor. He is just plain hateful. More like the Black Panthers with his way of thinking:(

[Ohio mom]

B Positive: We all feel the same way and that is why we have pulled together and are working so hard to make the media accountable for their part in this disturbing phenomenon!!!! The good always wins don't worry...we know that everything will work out.. The Obama campaign are wagering on the thought that the American people are stupid...granted some are and that's why they support BO...but the other 95% of the population know Hillary will win and fix what's broke!!

[hobbitt]

My question to all of you is this: if Jeremiah Wright were not Barack Obama’s pastor, would most of you still see his comments as bigoted?



Yes, Rev. Wright is bigoted, racist, hateful. Regardless of "the good he has done" just as Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones, John Hagee and yes, John Cardinal O'Connor et al are to be excoriated for their hateful views on what "religious" folks should do: Despise anyone not like us, and send in your checks today cause I need to replace that dingy old mansion.

And half-hearted apologies to anyone here who might support any of the above. I was christened a Catholic, and have not attended a church, other than weddings and funerals, in my adult life. But I have read the Bible (And the Baltimore Catechism), and I'm horrified to see how the teachings of Christ have become warped into some very un-Christian fodder for those who seek power and profit. But this is not the place to discuss these things - you may write and yell at me at hobbitt1225@gmail.com


"The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."

[joeylee]

First, for years, I praised Oprah, as a gay man, in my 20's, back in the day, it was Oprah who was a champion for gay people. Any of you remember how she held a national "coming out day", every November/December, usually I believe on the day before Nat'l Aids Awareness day.
However, along with her weight and her increased wealth, she became nothing more than another "Bill Cosby", a champion amongst those like her. No, not black people, but black RICH people. Why did she build a school in Africa with hand-picked girls? Because it made her popular amongst "the stars", her own, as I'd say.


On the one of the very first times that she spoke on a stage for BO, her very first statement, FIRST statement, was, "I am not supporting Barack Obama because he is black, but because he is Brilliant". That, to me, was THE most racist comment I could have heard.

Agree anyone?
Joey Lee*

[foreigner4hillary]

My question to all of you is this: if Jeremiah Wright were not Barack Obama’s pastor, would most of you still see his comments as bigoted?

Of course! A racist is a racist. It doesn't matter whose side he's on. Wright's vile.


If not, why do you think it is that many on the political left can only see racist statements made by whites against blacks as troubling and not the other way around as well?

One Primary Reason. White Guilt. If I may speak for all the typical chinese male out there, I'm under no delusions about his racist stance. To be honest, I didn't think white guilt was that big a deal until this election. I think they're nuts. Why would anyone feel guilty about something they didn't do? Heck...there must be at least a dozen other things they can feel guilty about that they've done.

You have to also consider that affirmative action is more of the same double standards. It's racist on 2 counts. 1, it denies equal opportunity to those not supported by the action and 2, it's assuming those supported by the action cannot make good without such support. That's crazy. There are many accounts of poor people of all races who made good because of hard work and prudence.


Am I crazy for thinking that bigotry must be stopped from blacks and whites alike, if we are to get along together in this country and in this world???

Include every race under the beautiful sun we live in and I'll agree with you. :p

[tcbwriter]

Well, I just sat here and typed up a beautiful response :D only to have it disappear into thin air. :confused:

So I'll try a synopis of what I said.

Any form of discrimination or hatred is wrong and causes damage, period. That includes racism, sexism, homophobia - and media bias.

And, yes, it does seem there is a double standard in that blacks are allowed to say whatever they want because they have "black anger" which they are entitled to. Whites on the other hand are perceived to be the bad guy, no matter what and any form of criticism of a black person, be it a politician or a subordinate at work is frequently labeled racism. Thus, "white people" end up walking in egg shells afraid to say anything less than highly positive. Ultimately, that causes resentment because, as I said, it's a double standard. BO alluded to that in his speech without mentioning the hand he, his campaign or Rev. Wright might have played in that.

But to be honest, I think the double standards we've witnessed with respect to sexism during this political season are even worse. They are so blatant they boggle the mind! :eek: Not only are sexist remarks expressed and actions portrayed everyday by politicians (including some women) but they are ignored by the media. In fact, too many members of the media laugh at sexist remarks, or make their own.

So, why is nobody calling for a national dialogue on sexism? Is that because women are still considered lesser than men? Have we all come to accept that mentality so much that we don't even notice it anymore? I thought we had "come a long way baby" but only far enough, it seems, to be able to work twice as hard as men for less pay and receive little to no respect from many in our society. :mad:

Next time you're watching a talk show with a panel that includes mostly men and just one or two women. Watch how the men talk over the women and mock any input they are allowed to give. It's shameful. :(

[foreigner4hillary]

Yes, Rev. Wright is bigoted, racist, hateful. Regardless of "the good he has done"


I'd like to question the "good he has done". If all the good he has done has only been extended to the black community, well then...it still shows he's a racist. There's no room for racism in Christianity.

[smsemedic]

i am extremely offended by obama. period. i must say...i am the LAST one to be racist! but i have found myself with a rising feeling of anger toward what obama has done....he has shown a new light on racism. i have seen so much reverse-racism coming from him it disgusts me! "typical white person...."...how rude was that?!!! i thought i was an odd bird for feeling anger toward him. i already had a list a mile long as to why i would never vote for the man.....the wright case merely was icing on the cake. what baffles me...is how all the obama supporters have such clouded judgement, or no, total LACK of judgement. obama truly frightens me. i am seriously afraid for this country with him in the running!

[EH]

First, a little disclosure: I was formerly registered GOP a long time ago, since turned libertarian/independent when the GOP sold itself out to neocons.

I supported John Kerry in the last election, and I supported Ron Paul for 2008 until it became impossible for him to win. I now support Hillary 100%; IMO she is the best of the 3 candidates left standing without a doubt.

I have always supported civil rights and equal treatment for all, between genders and among racial lines. I spoke out against what I saw as bigoted statements by Jeremiah Wright on a far-left leaning message board, and have been called out as a racist and a bigot myself for my trouble. This happened within the hour, and I'm still a little stung by the accusation as I once considered the person (who is also the administrator of said message board) who said this about me a good friend.

My question to all of you is this: if Jeremiah Wright were not Barack Obama’s pastor, would most of you still see his comments as bigoted? If not, why do you think it is that many on the political left can only see racist statements made by whites against blacks as troubling and not the other way around as well?

Am I crazy for thinking that bigotry must be stopped from blacks and whites alike, if we are to get along together in this country and in this world???

*sighs*

Welcome to the new racism club - a racism we didn't ask for but got thrown on us anyway!

You're not the only one who's been treated this way. On the site I blog on I was writing about the whole Obama/Wright story and some guy came on and said that "the world will never get rid of people like you (meaning me) who have special hatred for brown people":(. I told this person that it's people like him who create racism because they won't listen to facts or reason. I've since blocked him, but a number of southern Republicans came to my defense, which was nice.


It's very upsetting at first but you learn to let it slide. People just see what they want to see. You've got to treat these true hate mongers as the town drunk otherwise they will only get the best of you and suck your blood and energy. It's the best tactic for me, IMHO. Others take more drastic approaches; for example on that same blog site a woman was accused of being a racist by the same one who had accused me of it and her response was "Yes, I am - what's it to ya?" The town crier of racism backed down and was never to be seen anywhere near her blogs again. I don't want to get to that point. I can't say that I'm something I'm not, but my fear is that many people will start repsonding the way that woman did - but this time, they'll really mean it. Not because they are by nature, but because they were led to it.

[Ohio mom]

*sighs*

Welcome to the new racism club - a racism we didn't ask for but got thrown on us anyway!

You're not the only one who's been treated this way. On the site I blog on I was writing about the whole Obama/Wright story and some guy came on and said that "the world will never get rid of people like you (meaning me) who have special hatred for brown people":(. I told this person that it's people like him who create racism because they won't listen to facts or reason. I've since blocked him, but a number of southern Republicans came to my defense, which was nice.


It's very upsetting at first but you learn to let it slide. People just see what they want to see. You've got to treat these true hate mongers as the town drunk otherwise they will only get the best of you and suck your blood and energy. It's the best tactic for me, IMHO. Others take more drastic approaches; for example on that same blog site a woman was accused of being a racist by the same one who had accused me of it and her response was "Yes, I am - what's it to ya?" The town crier of racism backed down and was never to be seen anywhere near her blogs again. I don't want to get to that point. I can't say that I'm something I'm not, but my fear is that many people will start repsonding the way that woman did - but this time, they'll really mean it. Not because they are by nature, but because they were led to it.

a good reply would be "you sound like a typical racist!!!":p

[Peppermint Patty]

racism, no matter which way it flows, is just plain wrong!


YES!
1. I am offended by what Wright said
2. I am offended that these videos were sold for profit as a DVD boxed set entitled: The Best of Rev. Wright
3. I am offended that someone who regularly attends these types of gatherings would think he could successfully represent US citizens
4. I am offended that party leaders knew of this fatal flaw and propped him up anyhow... as if they were trying to destroy our party!
5. I am saddened that the pendulum has swung so far backward that these racist/anti-american remarks are made in public with hands & voices raised in approval.

The wknd that these videos came to my attention was a deeply disturbing time for me:(

I agree totally with you. Joy Behar was on the View yesterday debating the meaning of racism with Elizabeth. Now Elizabeth is not my fav person but she seems to have stuck to her guns on this issue. Joy was saying that only the majority in charge can be racist. That the definition of racism means the oppressed minority in a community cannot be racist. And brave little Elizabeth said she disagreed with that definition. And I do too. You can't say that racist comments are racist for one group and not for another. That's nuts. Utterly insane. If a black person calls a Jew a bad name you mean they are not a racist??? Or bigoted? Have the inmates taken over the asylum??

If Rev. Wright were not associated with BO in any way and these comments came out I would still consider him to be a racist, misguided fool with hate for other races, and America. He should thank his lucky stars he IS an American and afforded the freedom to hate his country.

I just can't get over how after all the stupid, boneheaded comments and lies BO has said, that everyone has given him a soft pass on this. HRC gets one detail wrong in a speech and she is tarred, feathered and bashed all morning. Has this country's sense of right and wrong gone to hell in a handbasket???? :mad: :mad: :mad:

What is going on here? Mass hypnotism on a grand scale???? :confused:

I just don't get it. I am VERY upset and disheartened this morning. :(

[tcbwriter]

Include every race under the beautiful sun we live in and I'll agree with you

That's something I left out of my original post. Growing up in the military, I have witnessed racism of all kinds - not just between African Americans and whites (I personally have a problem with the word "whites" but that seems to be what everybody uses to describe us - even legal forms), but between all races - Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans and to a lesser sense some Europeans. But there does seem to be more of a focus on discrimination toward African Americans.

Yes, we all need to get past what our ancestors did to each other (my husband's English ancestors abused my Scottich ancestors - should I hold him responsible?) and figure out where we are today and how we can all inhabit this earth together without hatred or resentment. But it will certainly take more than a speech to do that. We can't even figure out how to have disagreements with the leaders of foreign countries without deigning to kill their people.

But you would think that our religious entities would be the ones to start the process, to preach love, understanding and acceptance rather that anger, resentment and hate. That's what is wrong with what Rev. Wright preaches and that's what is disturbing about the fact that Barrack Obama was an active member of a church that espouses such things - and that he finds it acceptable to expose his children to that.

[tcbwriter]

Next time you're watching a talk show with a panel that includes mostly men and just one or two women. Watch how the men talk over the women and mock any input they are allowed to give. It's shameful

. . . unless the woman is an African American. It's that "walking on eggshells" thing again.

[EH]

On the one of the very first times that she spoke on a stage for BO, her very first statement, FIRST statement, was, "I am not supporting Barack Obama because he is black, but because he is Brilliant". That, to me, was THE most racist comment I could have heard.

Agree anyone?
Joey Lee*


Yup, you took the words out of my mouth. If race wasn't an issue for her, why bother underlining it then?:rolleyes:

[EH]

a good reply would be "you sound like a typical racist!!!":p

Good one!:D Thanks!

[foreigner4hillary]

See...the darnest thing is, discrimination isn't restricted to just race. Let's face it, some people simply love to impose their will on others or hate anything they don't know or agree with.

If it isn't racism, it's sexism, if not it's homophobia or religion or....etc..etc..


I honestly doubt it will ever resolve itself.

[EH]

Joy Behar was on the View yesterday debating the meaning of racism with Elizabeth. Now Elizabeth is not my fav person but she seems to have stuck to her guns on this issue. Joy was saying that only the majority in charge can be racist. That the definition of racism means the oppressed minority in a community cannot be racist.

And this woman has a Master's Degree in English Education? :eek::eek::eek:

[Area504]

This forum is my source of sanity on the internet, and I knew all of you wouldn't let me down! You have restored my faith (which was a bit shaken by what I saw from my former friend, the Obamaton, this morning).



Thank you all for the responses. :)

[smsemedic]

one more comment....i gotta say....i am not "all white." my lineage is a group that has been seriously bashed since sept. 11th. some of it was deserved....some not. but my gosh....for a man that didn't want to play the race card....he sure is. he has done the ultimate magic...he has turned the wright mess to his favor. give me a break!! forget about the 20 years you have hung with the guy...forget about the role model he is to you.....etc, etc!!! being colorblind will never happen. i am just glad that i did not choose my girl on the basis of race!! not even gender....although that is a bonus!:)

[Charlie Brown]

Obama uses words to smoothly impact people but not answer the questions. He pointed out to the audience that there is racism and we are to blame, but he continues to say he is a unifier for all. He never answered why he remained with Pastor Wright for 20 years and didn't walk out of the sermons!
He focused on the race issue! Very clever of him!
I am afraid that we just caught a glimpse of the real Obama! There is much more to uncover. I hope that it isn't too late!

and the real Oprah...IMO

[RachachaSharon]

My question to all of you is this: if Jeremiah Wright were not Barack Obama’s pastor, would most of you still see his comments as bigoted? If not, why do you think it is that many on the political left can only see racist statements made by whites against blacks as troubling and not the other way around as well?

Am I crazy for thinking that bigotry must be stopped from blacks and whites alike, if we are to get along together in this country and in this world???

In response to your query, even if Barack Obama was not affiliated with Rev. Wright, I would find the bad Reverend's words repulsive, inflamatory and racist. Whites don't corner the market on bigotry. What Rev. Wright spouts is venomous hate, pure and simple, and I would feel the same about any preacher whose message was hate.

I can't speak for those surrounding BO except that I believe his people have been directed to twist remarks to serve their agenda whenever possible.

As for the far left, I can only conclude a combination of guilt and political correctness gone awry or perhaps a sense of superiority that they alone understand the black man or so that others will recognize their liberality (all for show).

We all have a propensity to prefer people with characteristics similar to our own. For some it's religion; for others is national origin or skin color. Most of us, though, aren't so crippled that we look on everyone who is different as less of a person. Many of us have friends from all walks of life, ethnicity and race.

This issue so involves BO because his whole platform was uniting, not dividing. His relationship with Rev. Wright is long and deep. After representing himself to us as someone without rancor, this long relationship with Rev. Wright sends an entirely different message and BO would rightly come under scrutiny.

For bigotry to end would take a concerted effort by all humankind. We would have to strive, as Dr. King hoped, to achieve a color-blind society. Unfortunately, although a lot of people hope we will one day achieve that goal, there are too many among us who want to nurture their hate. It's the thing that motivates them. And it's not just black and white, it's all the shades in between.

[Oregonian4Hill]

Yes, Wright's comments do offend me. True, we've had a horrible history of slavery and racism, but I'm a Jewish American woman turning 35 in May, and if I'd been born 65 years ago in Europe, there's a good chance I would have died before I turned 3. But I don't hate Germans or Christians.

And "typical white person." Good God. You know, a couple days ago I walked to my neighborhood cafe, and it took me forever. I had to keep crossing the street because I kept seeing -- gasp!! -- PEOPLE I DIDN'T KNOW! Man, I don't know how I even get through my day sometimes.

Then, I finally made it home and saw that my typical white kitty-cat had gotten fur on my black sweater and puked on the basement floor. Typical.

[floorrunner]

Wright would still be a racist even if Obama was not associated with him. The fact that he did choose to associate with him for more than 20 years and did not speak up about it is what the big problem with Obama is. I heard something on the radio about a law in Illinois that Obama voted against called the guilt by association act. Supposedly Obama was against it because it would have put to many black people in jail. The law had something to do with parollees and people on probation not associating with know criminals. I have yet to verify this, but it seems awfully suspicious given his already known associations.

[DrLisa]

I was horrified when I first saw the video's....and then wondered what is America coming to when so many just blew it off after BO's speech. if the tables were turned and this was Hillary the whole country would be talking about it non-stop. BO covers up his true beliefs by flowery speeches. For some reason, i keep thinking of how Hitler in Germany gave very moving speeches, but behind the scenes was killing people in concentration camps.....but he sure could give a motivational speech.

Just wondered if anyone else has thought of this!!!!

[brussell]

First, a little disclosure: ...

My question to all of you is this: if Jeremiah Wright were not Barack Obama’s pastor, would most of you still see his comments as bigoted? If not, why do you think it is that many on the political left can only see racist statements made by whites against blacks as troubling and not the other way around as well?

Am I crazy for thinking that bigotry must be stopped from blacks and whites alike, if we are to get along together in this country and in this world???

Yes, I view Rev. Wright's comments as bigoted.

I believe guilt is why whites only see racism in one direction. Why do whites still feel guilty?

Without a doubt, racism needs to stop in *both* directions.

I'm no expert, but my understanding from this Rev. Wright stuff is that there are 2 camps: Black Liberation Theology/Black Nationalism vs Black Conservatism. Obama and his minister are in the first camp. Michael Meyer and Bill Cosby are in the second camp (see good article by Michael below).

Camp 1: Black Nationalism + Black theology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_nationalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology

vs.

Camp 2: Black Conservatism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_conservatism

Michael Meyers' article. Michael is the executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition and a former assistant national director of the NAACP.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-oew-meyers20mar20,0,4038350.story?track=mostviewed-storylevel

What I don't understand is why the Democratic Party, which has always been about integration and post-racial society, is embracing Black Nationalism (as promoted by Black Liberation Theology).

[jgilmore]

Yes, I understand your feelings. I was blogging on the Democratic party site and wrote a piece critical of Obama and all of a sudden I was a racist. Race has nothing to do with the matter, but it is the way they try to quiet you.

I early on heard about Obama's church. I had a big problem with him preaching unity and coming together as a people, while belonging to a church that labels itself Afrocentric and "unahamably black." I could never understand how one could go to a church such as that, but preach something different. Then, of course, the tapes showed up and we all found out the truth about that church.
The main thing we all can do is keep this issue in the forefront. What kind of man brings his children into such a church? Thanks for coming on board. Hillary is a great leader.

[david m]

he is what he is and for me he is just a pebble in the creek. my main concern is how hillary is treated. now that's a topic for discussion. oh and by the way there is a lot more about bo that will come out but the republicans will take care of that if he is nominated. would anyone like to form a third party. we could call it the" real democrats"

[skc1976]

In regards to the issue of race, I have to say that regardless of who he is the pastor of or was the pastor of, I find his remarks to be very racist indeed. I think that racism goes both ways. I have some very heated thoughts on this matter, but I'm going to refrain from sharing them. But in answer to the question, yes, he is a racist.

[LetsHelpAmerica]

I think to answer your question, one needs to look at what is really going on within one's own heart. I seriously doubt that anyone here is bigoted or racist! So, I am assuming that, in your own heart, you are NOT at all racist. So, I kind of feel like Geraldine Ferraro! She knows she's not racist! She knows that her comments were not racist and therefor she has the conviction to stand up and not be intiminated by those who are going to say you are racist simply because they know it hurts you for them to say it. They know better, but they are going to say it anyway .......as a punishment for not thinking or doing what they are demanding of you.
You are not a racist so don't feel guilty for it!! Throwing a guilt trip in your face is a form of tactical meneuvering. Don't fall for it.

[hillary4change]

Interesting this subject should come up on this forum. I ran into the same thing on Mydd.com. Only it was a transcript from The View.

Joy Behar made a statement that the oppressor can't cry racism. Racism starts from the top down. This was what her proffessor of a Poli-Sci class she took in college had taught her. She subscribes to this belief as does Whoopi.

Basically what they are saying is that there is racism of course but that the oppressed can't then in turn oppress the oppressor!!

I belive there is reverse racism, as is what we have been seeing by obamas camp of clowns.

I don't buy Joy and Whoopi's school of thought.

First off, there is no such thing as a legal (or collective) allowance of oppression on a basis of color. (on women of any color yes, but don't get me started.)

So there is no state authorized oppression. There may be single acts of racism on a person of color. But no actual organized, state authorized group of oppressors.

There is David Dukes group (KKK), but they have no protection under the law for crimes of hate or oppression. So oppression is illegal.

I am not arguing that there never was oppression, yes there was and it was wrong!!! But that error has been fixed (just ask Hillary!!) and is watched very closely. Too closely in my opinion.

Here is my second point.

If a white person were to say that an African American is treating them badly, because of their color, or is saying something that offends them because of tone or some thing that is specific to their ethnicity. Then they have to be in fear of being persecuted for their feelings of being treated unjustly. By the African Americans as well as guilty white apologists.

In my opinion that person has just been held down (oppressed) from seeking justice for the wrong that they are experiencing!! This white person has no justice under the law. Hate crimes are prosecuted when against a black person but very rarely if ever against white people.

This is a form of oppression, it is essentially, by its very nature, protected under the law. This is reverse racism any way you want to look at it.

Rev. *I am using the title loosely* Wrong is a bigot. He is claiming that we, rich white America, and its government, collectively tried to commit genocide with the specific intent to try to end black America. Then is spreading this irrational opinion (lie) through people in attendance, coming in and out of his
church, that then spread it by word of mouth. Never mind the C.D.'s being bought and given across the WORLD.

We have no recourse against this racism. We dare not speak out, or try to fight back for fear of persecution we are sure to suffer.

I hope I made my thoughts clear, and I must say I am worried right this moment that I am going to offend someone and I too will be labeled racist.

I think I may have just proven my own theory!!!

I have a story that relates to this subject.

My husband and I have been married for 24 years. He has 2 daughters from a previous marriage, we raised them together.

One lives here in Az. with her husband and 3 children. The other one lives in Calif. with her 3 children.

We had just recently moved to Ariz. & invited our oldest Grandson to visit for 2 weeks last year. He usually comes to visit but hadn't in awhile.

He and his Mom even lived with us in Texas for a couple years when he was younger. But now he is 13 and angry, as teenagers can be.
But while he was here, he had been a little mouthy. We spoke with him about it. He told us we didn't understand him as we were "just rich white people".

We were so hurt by this. We for one are not rich but that was a term he used in anger toward us. He had heard it as a bi-racial child.

I don't understand nor do I have an answer for this problem. Is this a conversation we as Americans need to have, YES.

But, I refuse to have a person that subscribes to this form of hate, Obama, lecture me on it's nuances. Obama is a perpetrator of this school of thought whether or not he wants to admit it, and it is WRONG!! Racism of all types is alive & well in America.

[foreigner4hillary]

Yes, I understand your feelings. I was blogging on the Democratic party site and wrote a piece critical of Obama and all of a sudden I was a racist. Race has nothing to do with the matter, but it is the way they try to quiet you.

Well, you've gotta understand their modus operandi. Obama (and by extension, his campaign and supporters) basically has TWO tactics when negative comments/questions are sent his way.

1. YOU'RE RACIST!

2. I/HE DIDN'T KNOW! (if that doesn't work, see #1)


You'd think the media/general populace would wise up by now.

[G4Hillary]

Am I crazy for thinking that bigotry must be stopped from blacks and whites alike, if we are to get along together in this country and in this world???

Absolutely not. You are right on the money. There is no room for any type of racism in America!

Sometimes we have legitimate grievances with particular people. But the answer to racism isn't more racism!!!! But unfortunately that is what Obama thinks is ok. Hating whites is the answer to the ills of the past. Sad this man is in the presidential race. He should be doing psychotherapy.

"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"--Mahatma Gandhi

[Ohio mom]

Good one!:D Thanks!

:Dyour welcome!!!:p

[foreigner4hillary]

Joy Behar made a statement that the oppressor can't cry racism. Racism starts from the top down. This was what her proffessor of a Poli-Sci class she took in college had taught her. She subscribes to this belief as does Whoopi.

Basically what they are saying is that there is racism of course but that the oppressed can't then in turn oppress the oppressor!!

I belive there is reverse racism, as is what we have been seeing by obamas camp of clowns.

I don't buy Joy and Whoopi's school of thought.



Well that's nonsense. Who says racism doesn't work both ways. I think the oppressor and the oppressed will fluctuate from situation to situation. Assuming that it is a static relationship is not logical. Human relations are so infinitely complex that it will defy such pigeon holes.

"White guilt" is a clear example of such oppression. Anyone knows guilt is a means of manipulation. Even kids know it instinctively. Crying is the best way to get food :p

[Rita Lyn]

Racism will be alive and well in America until the money is taken out of the equation. Jessie Jackson has become a multi-millionaire due to it. The NAACP rakes in millions of dollars. Case in point. Last Sunday, the new pastor of Obama's church asked for donations to fight the press who exposed Rev. Wright's comments. Controversy and anger equates to money.

No, the whites are not sqeaky clean either. We have formed our own groups that on the outside, look wonderful and on the inside are black as night.

[hillary1]

First, a little disclosure: I was formerly registered GOP a long time ago, since turned libertarian/independent when the GOP sold itself out to neocons.

I supported John Kerry in the last election, and I supported Ron Paul for 2008 until it became impossible for him to win. I now support Hillary 100%; IMO she is the best of the 3 candidates left standing without a doubt.

I have always supported civil rights and equal treatment for all, between genders and among racial lines. I spoke out against what I saw as bigoted statements by Jeremiah Wright on a far-left leaning message board, and have been called out as a racist and a bigot myself for my trouble. This happened within the hour, and I'm still a little stung by the accusation as I once considered the person (who is also the administrator of said message board) who said this about me a good friend.

My question to all of you is this: if Jeremiah Wright were not Barack Obama’s pastor, would most of you still see his comments as bigoted? If not, why do you think it is that many on the political left can only see racist statements made by whites against blacks as troubling and not the other way around as well?

Am I crazy for thinking that bigotry must be stopped from blacks and whites alike, if we are to get along together in this country and in this world???

when the "N" word is used, it is a racist remark, when nappy hair remark was used, someone was fired, when mississippi wanted to hang their confederate flag is was called symbol of hate, so, everyone came together and stopped in the name of unit, love, compassion, understanding, however one wishes to describe it

but, obama, wright do not need to think that way, they feel priviledged to say what one feels, no matter how insulting, or hateful, or racist it sounds

the only way one can feel vindicated with this campaign, is to VOTE FOR HILLARY, AND IF SHE DOES NOT GET THE NOMINATION

PLEASE, PLEASE VOTE MCCAIN, OTHERWISE YOU HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME BUT YOURSELF IF THE DEMOCRATS GO INTO OFFICE WITH OBAMA AT THE HELM

[joeylee]

I was born and raised in Hazleton, PA. Talk about a close-minded town; regardless, my upbringing was extremely liberal. I was raised Roman Catholic, a full 100% Italian Family.

I saw the Church for what it was when I was just a teenager. I remember how they made my Mother* cry when they told her she needed to "donate more" if she were to continue going.

Thankfully, She* was strong enough to take us out of there. I never looked back. I believe in God, I believe God made us all.

I also believe that racism is NOT genetic, nor is it confined to one group or one religion. However, "birds of a feather, usually do..."

JoeyLee*

[B positive]

I have lost respect for Jesse Jackson & Rev. Al Sharpton 'cuz when all of the racist rantings came out.... they said nothing:(

I didn't always agree with everything they said (or did) but I had admired their aggressive approach to exploit racism... now I'm not so sure they aren't racist themselves.

Thanks, FLUFF, for pushing race relations back about 50 years!

[EH]

I was born and raised in Hazleton, PA. Talk about a close-minded town; regardless, my upbringing was extremely liberal. I was raised Roman Catholic, a full 100% Italian Family.

I saw the Church for what it was when I was just a teenager. I remember how they made my Mother* cry when they told her she needed to "donate more" if she were to continue going.

Thankfully, She* was strong enough to take us out of there. I never looked back. I believe in God, I believe God made us all.

I also believe that racism is NOT genetic, nor is it confined to one group or one religion. However, "birds of a feather, usually do..."

JoeyLee*

My background is like yours, raised in a liberal, 100% Italian Catholic family. I saw the church for what it was at a young age as well. Besides paying an already hefty tuition, my parents also had to pay what was called "fair share" - the weekly donation to Sunday mass. Each family that had a child or children at the school were sent a package of envelopes with the family name pre-printed on it. If you didn't go to church on Sundays, no worries - you could pay the school year's worth of fair share in two easy installments. But what made me sick to my stomach was that there were kids whose parents could not afford to pay fair share (which was 3 dollars a week in 1981; sometimes there were the envelopes that called for two donations in one week, for things like missions week, flowers for the altar, etc.) and when report card time came around some of the real bitch teachers would gleefully anounce that so-and-so wasn't getting their report card cause they didn't pay their fair share. These kids would break down and cry with mortification and I'd cry along with them. So much for faith, love and charity.
:(

[Peppermint Patty]

he is what he is and for me he is just a pebble in the creek. my main concern is how hillary is treated. now that's a topic for discussion. oh and by the way there is a lot more about bo that will come out but the republicans will take care of that if he is nominated. would anyone like to form a third party. we could call it the" real democrats"


Yes, it's going to come down to that. My cousin in Pittsburgh emailed me berating the "negativity of both sides ruining the integrity of the Democratic party."

Ha!! I emailed her back that the DEM party had long since lost any sense of integrity when leaders like Kennedy, Kerry and Richardson say that their delegates should vote the way their state did (MA and NM went for HRC) and then turn around and support BO. Disgusting. When they back a candidate caught lying on camera so many times it's pathetic.

I am completely disgusted by the party literally trying to shove HRC off a cliff. It doesn't seem to make any difference if we point out how she is still in this race to win the nomination and can do it. Nope. The MSM continues to push and shove and shout against her. I suspect BO could be caught on camera shaking hands with Osama Bin Laden and people would STILL find some way to explain it away!!!

There are none so blind as those who will not see!!

[Area504]

I am sick and tired of hearing the talking points coming from the Obamatons in cyberspace, that the “30-second sound bytes” we’ve heard on TV for over 2 weeks are not “representative” of Wright’s usual sermons, or that they have somehow been “taken out of context”.

First of all, I’ve now listened to the sermons in their entirety. Context changed nothing for me. I'll admit that I understand the point he is making about American foreign policy, and only a fool would think that race relations are perfect in the U.S. But there is a definite and disturbing glee in Wright's voice when he proclaims "America's chickens (are) comin’ home to roost” that is clear as a bell to me. Context didn’t change the message of hatred and hostility toward our country and toward white people.

Whether these sound bytes are representative of his usual fare doesn't matter in my opinion. These are the sermons he chose to offer for sale through the church’s website. These were the sermons he considered so important that people should be able to own them to play over and over and over again. When interviewed a few days after the videos surfaced, Barack Obama called these particular sermons Wright’s “greatest hits.” Think about that. Think of any musical performer – whether it's a favorite rock band or even a singer you cannot stand. If you listened to a compilation of that performer’s greatest hits, surely you would hear many songs that you recognize. Those would be songs almost anyone would recognize!

Obama's own words suggest that the same might be true of these sermons of Wright's that we've been hearing. Representative or not, these are the sermons by which he wants to be remembered and wants his congregation to take to heart. That's profoundly disturbing.

Even more disturbing: do we really want any member of that congregation, after they've had their heads filled with hate speech over and over, to be President of the United States, to be the leader of our nation (that they have been carefully taught to hate?)

If he is selected by the DNC, I certainly hope that Hillary will decline any offer to be on his ticket. That's what scares me the most right now. Obama must be defeated, and she can run again in 2012!*

*Not giving up on her chances to pull this out, just thinking of a worst case scenario if it doesn't happen. :(

[movingtous]

We have to deal with racism from all angles, not just from the AA angle.
Remember the riot after the Rodney King beating? A black man was beaten by white police, then the AA decided to burn Korean town. Protest against the white guy by looting the yellow? HMMM, it just looked like a chance to riot, to me.

[Ohio mom]

I have lost respect for Jesse Jackson & Rev. Al Sharpton 'cuz when all of the racist rantings came out.... they said nothing:(

I didn't always agree with everything they said (or did) but I had admired their aggressive approach to exploit racism... now I'm not so sure they aren't racist themselves.

Thanks, FLUFF, for pushing race relations back about 50 years!

they were aggressive when it was racism towards blacks only..not reverse racism they think we're owed it back to us.:mad:

[Wyoming Dem]

SHe has more money than any other woman in the world. She is fawned over, cow-towed too everywhere she goes. Mentioning a book's title puts the author on the best seller list. When you have an individual with this much power and notoriety, it is easy to believe that she wants a place in history as someone who changed the outcome of a national election and elevated the first African American to the presidency. With her, it's ALWAYS about ego and power. I quit watching her years ago. Too much "new age" BS as well.

http://www.brokenbarranch.com/oprah_and_obama.jpg

[IndyRobin]

The final irony is that "The Party of Change" is setting bak race relations 50 years. As someone who has worked her entire adult life for civil rihgts I am angry at all the race bating issues that have been brought forth be the Obama camp.

[Jan26]

Rev. Wright makes inflammatory statements in his sermons, people criticize those statements, those people are racist. It doesn't make any sense. I attended an AA church with relatives years ago and volunteered with their community service efforts. If I had heard anything approaching Rev. Wright's sermons, I would never have returned. My son attended a preschool sponsored by the United Church of Christ in a different city. It was a wonderful, loving environment, and we attended services at the church on several occasions when the children were involved. Again, there was nothing inflammatory. Since the Trinity UCC made the sermons available to the public, it's a public debate.

[Annie]

I agree totally with you. Joy Behar was on the View yesterday debating the meaning of racism with Elizabeth. Now Elizabeth is not my fav person but she seems to have stuck to her guns on this issue. Joy was saying that only the majority in charge can be racist. That the definition of racism means the oppressed minority in a community cannot be racist. And brave little Elizabeth said she disagreed with that definition. And I do too. You can't say that racist comments are racist for one group and not for another. That's nuts. Utterly insane. If a black person calls a Jew a bad name you mean they are not a racist??? Or bigoted? Have the inmates taken over the asylum??

If Rev. Wright were not associated with BO in any way and these comments came out I would still consider him to be a racist, misguided fool with hate for other races, and America. He should thank his lucky stars he IS an American and afforded the freedom to hate his country.

I just can't get over how after all the stupid, boneheaded comments and lies BO has said, that everyone has given him a soft pass on this. HRC gets one detail wrong in a speech and she is tarred, feathered and bashed all morning. Has this country's sense of right and wrong gone to hell in a handbasket???? :mad: :mad: :mad:

What is going on here? Mass hypnotism on a grand scale???? :confused:

I just don't get it. I am VERY upset and disheartened this morning. :(

I think Joy wants to keep her job.

[Bonju]

Yup, you took the words out of my mouth. If race wasn't an issue for her, why bother underlining it then?:rolleyes:

which is the same as saying the same thing you posted in your comment. In any case why does that statement always sound like an oxi-moron - because it is. Why can't black men just be men? Why can't they just be human some brilliant and others dumb as a post? Why must we bend over backwards to build up the black man when all he wants to do is cut down the white people?