(September 26, 2008) McCain aide: Debate probably will be held on schedule (Newsday) -- **Update** - Debate is on

[Horizon]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usdeba265858416sep26,0,7092934.story

Democrat Barack Obama and Republican rival John McCain may yet meet for their first debate tonight if lawmakers can settle on a rescue plan for U.S. financial markets.

A McCain campaign official said the presidential debate is likely to go forward if the accord contains the elements that both McCain and Obama have called for and it wins broad support in the House and Senate. However, no decision has been made, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Obama earlier yesterday challenged McCain to go through with the debate, telling an audience at the Clinton Global Initiative in New York, "the American people deserve to hear directly from myself and Senator McCain about how we intend to lead our country." McCain, who spoke earlier to the same group, said the economic crisis should take precedence.

In Oxford, Miss., the venue for the debate, the University of Mississippi and city were preparing anyway for the national spotlight tonight. Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, a Republican, told a news conference he expected the debate to go on.

The student newspaper, The Daily Mississippian, ran a front-page photo yesterday of an Ole Miss student holding a hand-painted sign that altered McCain's logo to say: "McCain Bailin'." Students and locals were soaking up the charged political atmosphere: Big-screen TVs were set up for a massive debate-watching party among the oaks and magnolias of the Grove, where football fans normally hold tailgate parties before Saturday games.

A majority of the public favors holding the debate on schedule, according to a Marist Institute of Public Opinion poll. The survey of 435 registered voters taken yesterday by Poughkeepsie, N.Y.-based Marist found 53 percent agree with Obama's stance. Forty-eight percent, though, said the candidates should discuss the economy rather than foreign policy.

Meanwhile, organizers of the final presidential debate to be held at Hofstra University in Hempstead said yesterday their preparations were unaffected.

"We just continue planning for the Oct. 15 debate," said Melissa Connolly, Hofstra's vice president for university relations. "We're prepared to host the debate and our understanding is that the topic will be domestic policy and economic policy ... but the topic is really up to the candidates and the commission [on presidential debates]."

[Bella]

I agree with Huckabee.

MOBILE, Ala. — Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee said Thursday that Sen. John McCain made a “huge mistake” by even discussing canceling the presidential debate with Sen. Barack Obama.

McCain’s campaign has said the Republican wouldn’t participate in the Mississippi debate Friday unless there was a consensus on the financial crisis, but Obama still wants the debate to go on.

Huckabee defeated McCain in the Alabama GOP primary in February.

Huckabee said Thursday in Mobile that the people need to hear both candidates. He said that’s “far better than heading to Washington” to huddle with senators.

He said the candidates should level with the people about the financial crisis and say the “heart of this is greed.”

Huckabee said he still backs McCain’s candidacy, but said the Arizona senator should not have put his campaign on hold to deal with the financial crisis on Wall Street. He said a president must be prepared to “deal with the unexpected.”

“You can’t just say, ‘World stop for a moment. I’m going to cancel everything,”‘ Huckabee said.

Huckabee also was critical of President Bush’s handling of the crisis.

He said to lay the $700 billion obligation on the nation “in 24 hours” amounts to “holding the country hostage.”

“I just think the American people ought to be screaming their lungs out, saying to Congress, not so fast. That’s our money you’re giving away,” Huckabee said.

He said the burden of the $700 billion relief package will fall on the next generation and those in their teens and 20s.

Huckabee spoke to reporters before attending a benefit for the Baptist-affiliated University of Mobile. Huckabee is an ordained Southern Baptist minister.

While in Mobile, he also played a little blues guitar with a student group.

Since losing his bid for the Republican presidential nomination, Huckabee said he has formed a political action committee and advises other candidates.

“I don’t have any immediate plans to seek office,” he said.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/26/huckabee-calls-mccain-debate-ploy-a-huge-mistake/

[G4Hillary]

Huckabee is tight with McCain. He doesn't mean what he is saying...

They are trying to make a big deal about this on purpose. The media is falling into their trap.

[wasGOPnowInd]

Huckabee is tight with McCain. He doesn't mean what he is saying...

They are trying to make a big deal about this on purpose. The media is falling into their trap.

I am sorry, but I don't see how this helps McCain. That said, McCain did the right thing, and the polls (at least initially last night) bear that up. He needs to stay in Washington, and see this thing through.

[hejiranyc]

Considering that our national economy is on the verge of a disastrous calamity on the scale of 9/11, it is the Number One priority. Yes, there are some things that you have to drop everything to take care of; a debate seems rather frivolous and inconsequential when compared to the ticking time bomb of our economy. So we'll leave it to Obama to go on reading to children while the nation goes to heck in a handbasket. :rolleyes:

[eviee]

Thank God Huckabee did not win the Republican nomination. For me he is too far gone.

[hejiranyc]

Huckabee is tight with McCain. He doesn't mean what he is saying...

They are trying to make a big deal about this on purpose. The media is falling into their trap.

I disagree- Huckabee resents the heck out of McCain, especially since he is not a scripture-quoting evangelist. Still, for the sake of party unity, I think Huckabee needs to shut his godforsaken trap.

[mondayblues]

If Obama shows up in that debate alone its going to paint a very strange picture. And the people will know which candidate really puts the country first.

Here is a man about to enter a rhetorical debate regaring foreign policy while the guy he is supposed to be debating with is in Washington trying to avert a national disaster of epic proprtions ($700 Billion bail out).

Right now the bail out is very unpopular with the US public and it will hurt Obama deeply in the end that the democrats were the ones who supported that bail out. Not just that...its all over the news that Obama was at the forefront of that bailout during the conference.

[mcgowan.swan]

and that is why huckabee is NOT the gop nominee. that and the evolution thing. mccain did the right thing, and sometimes the president has to prioritize his time and attention. does anyone think president kennedy would have gone to give a convention speech for the campaign if he had been up for re-election during the bay of pigs? OF COURSE NOT!!!

multi-tasking is for clerical staff. it is a way to get more bang for the buck with the company dollar. executives tend to focus on strategic planning and organization. it is pretty much all they do. and they are expected to focus on a crisis exclusively when it comes up. they are paid for their experience in doing this, not for their abillty to multi-task.

this debate crap is just ignorant. and how bad will obama look walking around a stage for ninety minutes repeating his "change and hope" mantra while mccain is in washington working the phones to try and bring his republican side into the bi-partisan bill that the dems only want to fill with earmarks and acorn???

very bad, at least to working class americans, and we are the ones that will decide this election.

pretty sure a town hall will be bad news for obama, especially if there are uncensored questions from people. the teleprompter is not that quick, or is it? will he have someone sitting by the keyboard to type answers for him so he does not look like a deer in the headlights? or will he wear a blu tooth in his ear so they can tell him what to say??

dork dork :eek::eek::eek:

[PALIN08HILL12]

John Really Needs To Show Up. It'll Be Like A 3 Hour Flight From Washington To Miss. And A 90 Minute Debate, He Can Make Time And Then Go Right Back To Washington. Obama With Over 35 Million Viewers Alone On National T.v Is A No No. We Need John To Disimate Obama Tonight At The Debate. We All Know Obama Just Falls Apart During Debates B/c Theres No Teleprompter. Hillary Made Him Look Like A Flubbering, Inexperienced, Nieve Flip Flopper Im Sure Mcccain's Gonna Do The Same!

[foxyladi]

looks like mac is going to make it..:D:D

[Charlie Brown]

Wouldnt it be cool if everyone thought Mccain wasn't going to show and he walzes in at the last minute with cheers from the crowd chanting " Mac is back" ...LOL! I can dream cant I....;)

[rosesnc]

I don't think they can have the debate without McCain. I think there may be legal issues, i.e., the debate would then be construed as "an illegal campaign contribution" to Obama.

[BillDemo]

Heard a lot of talking heads on news shows saying that Obama will look stupid if he shows up for the debate.

Think about it. Obama may have to answer real questions from real people.
He won't be able to go ahead with a town hall meeting on his own.

[SusanfromPA]

I don't think they can have the debate without McCain. I think there may be legal issues, i.e., the debate would then be construed as "an illegal campaign contribution" to Obama.

That is exactly what some news reports are starting to say. There is a link on Drudge.

[Christines]

Debate is on!

[reddirtgirl]

Just announced on Fox.

[Lillie]

LOL. :D
Bet Obama isn't happy to hear that!

[geneo]

on fox news!

[Christines]

McCain said that all campaign activities will resume and then return to Washington. Fox News said there will be questions about the economic problems and the bail out tonight.

[hejiranyc]

Ugh... :( But I hope that McCain underscores that he is doing it under protest, and that a weak economy undermines any international goodwill, as evidenced by the grousing at the UN earlier this week. So while they can debate all they want on foreign policy, it all means nothing unless we can ensure the integrity of our economy.

[Charlie Brown]

"Mac Is Back"

[BillDemo]

Fox News Radio just reported that McCain just announced he is resuming his campaign and will fly to Mississippi this afternoon and he says the Debate is definitely ON! :)

[Adayamo]

STRIKE!!!!! YOU'VE MADE MY DAY!!!!

NOW let's hope for Saddleback Reloaded :D

[Lillie]

I'm not surprised. And Obama lost a day and a half of "practice" time. Should be interesting!

[mjno7777]

We need to search before posting!!! 4 threads with McCain debating tonight.

[BillDemo]

Please Merge with the other thread

[G4Hillary]

What time is the debate?

[Got Angelou]

Heard a lot of talking heads on news shows saying that Obama will look stupid if he shows up for the debate.

Think about it. Obama may have to answer real questions from real people.
He won't be able to go ahead with a town hall meeting on his own.




Yeah, real questions like.... "what the f#@! are you doing here posturing while Americans want single-minded determination, not multi-tasking, to resolve our economy??"

.

[foxyladi]

"Mac Is Back"

yepper we knew he would. he just wanted to have a little fun first...:D:D

[foxyladi]

three threads on this
MODS PLEASE MERGE
thanks

[MS BLUEGRASS]

LOL. :D
Bet Obama isn't happy to hear that!

EXACTLY what I was thinking....GR8 minds and all that!

[BillDemo]

We need to search before posting!!! 4 threads with McCain debating tonight.

Everyone posted at the same time. LOL

[Bad Kitty]

merged. :D

[Bad Kitty]

STRIKE!!!!! YOU'VE MADE MY DAY!!!!

NOW let's hope for Saddleback Reloaded :D

Yes Lord! :D

[MS BLUEGRASS]

I'm not surprised. And Obama lost a day and a half of "practice" time. Should be interesting!

We are still thinking along the same lines, it does not matter how many threads are posted on this subject.:rolleyes::p:)

[ImmaSlave4U]

Great! I wanted him to debate. But I really didn't think he would debate unless a deal was reached. Hmm.

What time is the debate?

6 p.m. Pacific Time.

Nine different networks are broadcasting it (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, BBC America,).

[Lillie]

Huckabee is tight with McCain. He doesn't mean what he is saying...

They are trying to make a big deal about this on purpose. The media is falling into their trap.

I agree.

They knew that O would have to make a fuss about the debate since he couldn't just follow along with Macs proposal without looking weak.

[G4Hillary]

McCain to Attend Debate at University of Mississippi

John McCain is resuming his campaign activities and will debate Barack Obama Friday, McCain’s campaign announced two days after he said he would suspend his campaign to deal with a financial rescue plan being debated in Washington.


http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/26/mccain-to-attend-debate-at-university-of-mississippi/

[Bad Kitty]

merged again. :D

Edit: and again. :D

[wasGOPnowInd]

I just posted this in another thread, but want to repeat it here. I think McCain should try to interject the following into the debate: "Let's see, an infant's life is above your pay grade, the economic prosperity of all Americans is not worthy of your direct attention. Exactly Senator, what do you do again? What exactly is within your capabilities? (this next bit added for the debate) Because if you are uncomfortable with taking a leadership position on these important issues of the day, how possibly can you expect America to believe you can handle being Commander-In-Chief?

[BillDemo]

UPDATE:

Joe Lieberman on Fox News says McCain is flying to Mississippi, doing the debate, then flying straight back to Washington to work on the Bailout.

Let's see the Dems try to spin THAT! :D

[wasGOPnowInd]

Oh, and another one.... (to repeat from an earlier VP debate): "Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy"!

[wasGOPnowInd]

I still feel though that, unless a deal has been worked out, it is a mistake for him to return to the campaign. Bad, bad move!

[Bad Kitty]

I just posted this in another thread, but want to repeat it here. I think McCain should try to interject the following into the debate: "Let's see, an infant's life is above your pay grade, the economic prosperity of all Americans is not worthy of your direct attention. Exactly Senator, what do you do again? What exactly is within your capabilities? (this next bit added for the debate) Because if you are uncomfortable with taking a leadership position on these important issues of the day, how possibly can you expect America to believe you can handle being Commander-In-Chief?

Ooooh I would love that. Is there a way for you to send in your question?

[Lillie]

We are still thinking along the same lines, it does not matter how many threads are posted on this subject.:rolleyes::p:)


Yup. We should have pretneded we were psychics because I think we both probably saw this coming from the moment Mac announced his campaign suspension. :D


Now what happens tonight, is another issue....

But Obama chokes under pressure. If he is gonna pull this out he'll have to be brilliant tonight. It COULD happen, so I wont speculate, but it will be interesting... :D

[wasGOPnowInd]

We need to search before posting!!! 4 threads with McCain debating tonight.

In fairness, with breaking news, searching is difficult, and often folks are doing their best. Let's cut some slack here.

[Bad Kitty]

UPDATE:

Joe Lieberman on Fox News says McCain is flying to Mississippi, doing the debate, then flying straight back to Washington to work on the Bailout.

Let's see the Dems try to spin THAT! :D

As he should. If he must, go ahead and play pretend with BO and then go back to doing the job for which you are actually being paid.

[wasGOPnowInd]

Ooooh I would love that. Is there a way for you to send in your question?

This is what I want McCain to say to Obama (albeit rhetorically, as part of an answer to a question). I am assuming that they have folks with better heads then mine feeding him this stuff, but I do hope this is part of it, because it is exactly what I would ask.

[wasGOPnowInd]

Democrat Barack Obama and Republican rival John McCain may yet meet for their first debate tonight if lawmakers can settle on a rescue plan for U.S. financial markets.

A McCain campaign official said the presidential debate is likely to go forward if the accord contains the elements that both McCain and Obama have called for and it wins broad support in the House and Senate. However, no decision has been made, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

This does not indicate he will definitely be back in, unless the deal is set.

Also, why was the Huckabee thread merged in with this one?

[Jill4Hillary]

Great! I wanted himt o debate. But I really didn't think he would debate unless a deal was reached. Hmm.



6PM Pacific Time, but does anyone know what channel?

CNN, FOX, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC



6:00 PT
7:00 MT
8:00 CT
9:00 ET

[AKFamily]

Remember he never said he wouldn't debate.

Reid pulled all Senate business tonight to make Mac look bad. If he stayed he'd look bad as there is nothing really going on (that the media sees).

[wasGOPnowInd]

I'll be recording it (gotta watch those Mets - okay, so they break my heart all the time... but still...)

[HeatherL]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13970.html


Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) ended three days of suspense on Friday morning and announced that he will leave bailout negotiations in Washington and fly to Oxford, Miss., for the opening presidential debate.

McCain had previously said that he would suspend his campaign until an agreement was reached on the administration's $700 billion mortgage proposal.

No such agreement has been reached, but Republicans said the standoff was hurting McCain's campaign and that he would look terrible if he didn't attend the nationally televised, eagerly anticipated debate while Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) was ready to go on stage.

The text of a statement from McCain's campaign at about 11:20 a.m. Eastern:

John McCain’s decision to suspend his campaign was made in the hopes that politics could be set aside to address our economic crisis.

In response, Americans saw a familiar spectacle in Washington. At a moment of crisis that threatened the economic security of American families, Washington played the blame game rather than work together to find a solution that would avert a collapse of financial markets without squandering hundreds of billions of taxpayers’ money to bailout bankers and brokers who bet their fortunes on unsafe lending practices.

Both parties in both houses of Congress and the administration needed to come together to find a solution that would deserve the trust of the American people. And while there were attempts to do that, much of yesterday was spent fighting over who would get the credit for a deal and who would get the blame for failure. There was no deal or offer yesterday that had a majority of support in Congress. There was no deal yesterday that included adequate protections for the taxpayers. It is not enough to cut deals behind closed doors and then try to force it on the rest of Congress — especially when it amounts to thousands of dollars for every American family.

The difference between Barack Obama and John McCain was apparent during the White House meeting yesterday, where Barack Obama’s priority was political posturing in his opening monologue defending the package as it stands. John McCain listened to all sides so he could help focus the debate on finding a bipartisan resolution that is in the interest of taxpayers and homeowners. The Democratic interests stood together in opposition to an agreement that would accommodate additional taxpayer protections.

Senator McCain has spent the morning talking to members of the administration, members of the Senate, and members of the House. He is optimistic that there has been significant progress toward a bipartisan agreement now that there is a framework for all parties to be represented in negotiations, including Representative Blunt as a designated negotiator for House Republicans. The McCain campaign is resuming all activities and the senator will travel to the debate this afternoon. Following the debate, he will return to Washington to ensure that all voices and interests are represented in the final agreement, especially those of taxpayers and homeowners.

[Lillie]

UPDATE:

Joe Lieberman on Fox News says McCain is flying to Mississippi, doing the debate, then flying straight back to Washington to work on the Bailout.

Let's see the Dems try to spin THAT! :D

Perfection. :D

[Adayamo]

PLEAASE!!
I would get an heart attack when BHO performs well. :( :( :(

[MS BLUEGRASS]

I just posted this in another thread, but want to repeat it here. I think McCain should try to interject the following into the debate: "Let's see, an infant's life is above your pay grade, the economic prosperity of all Americans is not worthy of your direct attention. Exactly Senator, what do you do again? What exactly is within your capabilities? (this next bit added for the debate) Because if you are uncomfortable with taking a leadership position on these important issues of the day, how possibly can you expect America to believe you can handle being Commander-In-Chief?

Mods where are you?

[foxyladi]

Huckabee is tight with McCain. He doesn't mean what he is saying...

They are trying to make a big deal about this on purpose. The media is falling into their trap.

i agree...

[JamieKuuipo]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_36.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined) http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_36.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)




we are off and running....

GOOD LUCK MCCAIN!!!!!!!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_17_4.gif


http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=[object Object]&pp=ZNxmk572YYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb097_ZNxmk572YYUS&utm_id=7925)

[G4Hillary]

Great! I wanted him to debate. But I really didn't think he would debate unless a deal was reached. Hmm.



6 p.m. Pacific Time.

Nine different networks are broadcasting it (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, BBC America,).

Thank you for the info!

They are probably not close to a deal and this is politics after all so I think the suspension was a tactical move as much as it was McCain being a maverick. It was one more day on which McCain camp dictated the headlines.

[PA_Voter]

Just sending a special, well-deserved thanks to our Moderators.... Lots of threads to merge on this one! :D

[foxyladi]

Perfection. :D

jess messen wid ya man..haha whos messing now bo????

[lanney]

he should have taken good rest. Today some banned channel in my house was showing McCain can lose temper, barry is cool guy.
Obama will try to make McCain angry.

[Lealy]

F***

McCain should have stayed with his word to NOT do the debate until there was a resolution. The whole move embodied the "Country First" emphasis of the campaign.

It looks whimpy for him to go and do the debate now. I hope he has some tricks up his sleeve - like the fact that the winds seems to be shifting on Wall St. for a MARKET solution to the crisis - not a Government solution!

During one of the interviews I heard that if Mac met with anyone the Dem's would not work with them. The Dem's made Mac toxic. They could not let Obama look bad. Plus they just said Mac's words were to that he would suspend until they have taken action, not a deal.

[Pepper]

Yippee!!!! I'm so excited! Get ready for all the uh's, uh's, and more uh's.

Grab an adult beverage and take a drink each time you hear an "uh" from BHO. We'll all be trashed but will make listening to BHO easier and also make for a fun Friday night:D

[Tea toaD]

What time is the debate? I'm Est:)
thanks:)

[Bella]

Fox News Radio just reported that McCain just announced he is resuming his campaign and will fly to Mississippi this afternoon and he says the Debate is definitely ON! :)

Cool! Told ya he must be there. :p

[kathleen]

he should have taken good rest. Today some banned channel in my house was showing McCain can lose temper, barry is cool guy.
Obama will try to make McCain angry.

Then let McCain lose his temper over having to drop a real crises to 'debate' because the opposition thought delaying a debate was more earth shattering than avoiding a potential economic depression. Let McCain lose his temper because his opponent had to be ordered and dragged back to Washington and then only to contribute to political posturing which halted any agreement or compromise to deal with this mess. Let McCain lose his temper because the mess he warned people about in 2005, his opponant directly contributed to that mess. The same mess he didn't include in his multi-tasking to clean up!

[kathleen]

Yippee!!!! I'm so excited! Get ready for all the uh's, uh's, and more uh's.

Grab an adult beverage and take a drink each time you hear an "uh" from BHO. We'll all be trashed but will make listening to BHO easier and also make for a fun Friday night:D

Good idea! :D Besides, being trashed is the only way I can muster enough patience to listen to BO.

[HumbleDave]

Obama's campaign is probably working very hard right now.......



































drafting a boat load of excuses for tomorrow on why Barrack did so horribly in the debate:


They only need one: Sen. McCain was his opponent.:D

[Bad Kitty]

What time is the debate? I'm Est:)
thanks:)

It's 8 central. So that would be 7 for you.

[lanney]

This is going to be most watch debate.
Now Bo had worked hard on Foreign policy issue, he was preparing for days.
We have to see how he mix-max all issues.

[Isis46]

Rush Limbaugh gave a detailed description of what went down in the White House meeting yesterday on his radio show. Apparently, Pelosi, read and the other Democrat Leaders deferred to Obama to lead the discussion. However, instead of acting in a bipartisan manner, Obama decided to rip the Republicans for their policy position on this matter. Obama was suppose to stick to support for the Democrat plan. Instead, he "got in their faces".

Needless to say,the Republican Leaders led by Boehner responded vigorously to the attack. The meeting was totally derailed by Obama.

One of the items the GOP is having issue with is the amount of money going to ACORN. You might recall ACORN is the vote-fraud promoting group sponsored by Obama.

This meeting was suppose to demonstrate Obama's leadership skills. I guess it does. Please spread the word, as we need to get the truth out.

McCain should describe this event during the debate.

[Bad Kitty]

Rush Limbaugh gave a detailed description of what went down in the White House meeting yesterday on his radio show. Apparently, Pelosi, read and the other Democrat Leaders deferred to Obama to lead the discussion. However, instead of acting in a bipartisan manner, Obama decided to rip the Republicans for their policy position on this matter. Obama was suppose to stick to support for the Democrat plan. Instead, he "got in their faces".

Needless to say,the Republican Leaders led by Boehner responded vigorously to the attack. The meeting was totally derailed by Obama.

One of the items the GOP is having issue with is the amount of money going to ACORN. You might recall ACORN is the vote-fraud promoting group sponsored by Obama.

This meeting was suppose to demonstrate Obama's leadership skills. I guess it does. Please spread the word, as we need to get the truth out.

McCain should describe this event during the debate.

It's hard to understand why he even went anyway. I know he only went there because Bush called him and told him to, but there was nothing he could have added to the conversation. When you have meetings like this, there is no practice and no teleprompters.

[Annie]

snip:
pretty sure a town hall will be bad news for obama, especially if there are uncensored questions from people. the teleprompter is not that quick, or is it? will he have someone sitting by the keyboard to type answers for him so he does not look like a deer in the headlights? or will he wear a blu tooth in his ear so they can tell him what to say??

dork dork :eek::eek::eek:

I just remember Bush during one of his debates - and the suspicious bump at the back of his jacket.... :rolleyes:

The only thing is Obama is so self-absorbed that he probably wouldn't listen to any monitor on his back or ear would be telling him - but if it is axelrod... who knows.

[hobbitt]

Posted on another thread (but damned few viewers!)

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Don't let them take over!

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