Ohio/MSNBC Debate - 2/26/08

[CGP]

DESCRIPTION FROM MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com) WEBSITE

MSNBC will telecast a debate between Democratic presidential candidates Sen. Hillary Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama Tuesday, Feb. 26, live from Cleveland State University in Cleveland, Ohio, 9-10:30 p.m. ET. NBC’s Brian Williams will moderate and be joined by "Meet the Press" moderator and NBC News Washington Bureau Chief Tim Russert. It will be streamed live on msnbc.com.

[skc1976]

I am SO EXCITED abou this debate. Given how fired up she's gotten over the weekend, I hope she puts on the boxing gloves and gets ready to spar. It's now or never for her to dent that pristine armor!

[CGP]

I expect things will get very heated tonight. It's fairly clear that the Clinton campaign is really going for it at this point and targeting all of Obama's weaknesses in a very aggressive manner. It's a fine line between successfully targeting him and turning some people off. But it needs to happend. There is no place for sweet talk tonight1

[Valencia]

I expect things will get very heated tonight. It's fairly clear that the Clinton campaign is really going for it at this point and targeting all of Obama's weaknesses in a very aggressive manner. It's a fine line between successfully targeting him and turning some people off. But it needs to happend. There is no place for sweet talk tonight1

Ditto

[sylvieshene.com]

Obama's myspace page

I posted the comment below in Obama’s page, but his comments have to be approved first. Of course they did not approve my comment, but they approved the comment: “brothers for bros not hoes”. They just showed to me that they are sexiest. The comments in Hillary’s page they don’t need to be approved first. Anyone can go there and make a comment even the haters. It just shows to me that in Obama’d page there is no free speech they control what its posted, it sounds a lot like a dictatorship. It shows they cannot be trusted and that they are power hungry and controlling.

Knowledge is experience everything else is just information. And we all know how most information is misleading and lies.

“It takes courage to see the truth; intelligence alone is not enough, it rather helps a lot to invent lies.” Alice Miller

I know Hillary has the experience/knowledge and I am pretty sure she has the courage. I would love to see her become the next president of the United States and maybe

Obama the vice president and maybe eight years from now, he could become president, after gaining more experience and we have gotten to know him better because I have no idea of who he real is!

“We have seen how easy it is for intellectuals in a dictatorship to be corrupted, it would be vestige of aristocratic snobbery to think that only “the uneducated masses” are susceptible to propaganda. Both Hitler and Stalin had a surprisingly large number of enthusiastic followers among intellectuals. Our capacity to resist has nothing to do with our intelligence but with the degree of access to our true self.” Alice Miller
www.alice-miller.com

The most important issues for me are the right for women to choose and raising awareness of all forms of child abuse around the world. The only way we can change the world is if we can stop all forms of child abuse around the world.

I have confidence in Hillary.
www.sylvieshene.com

[johnny51981]

Wow....Hillary is looking very Presidential!!

[BloodDAnna]

I'm watching it on super glitchy streaming video....Comcast killed MSNBC for my aread unless you pay for digital cable but anyway, I'm watching and she's making her points known and they are actually letting her!!!!!

[Valencia]

Go Hillary, Go Hillary Gooo!!!

[Brooke]

She's standing her ground so well!!!! And I love how Brian Williams and Tim Russert are attacking her too and she's fighting back!

GO HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Valencia]

I am still at the office... leaving pretty soon.. Are they going to repeat this tonight???

[johnny51981]

Yes, at 9 PM Pacific/12 AM Eastern.

[BloodDAnna]

I give alot of credit to the hosts, they asked the questions people always throw out about Hillary like her tax return (which is irrelevant IMHO) but they did ask him whether as president he would invade Iran(?) and when he hedged she brought it back up then the live feed died...it died alot so I'm going to rewatch it tonight.

[Brooke]

He didn't reject Farrakahn's endorsement and he totally blundered on the question. Folks, as a Jew, this scares me and makes me angry. I know we're a minority but I don't know where he says he's getting support from the Jewish community. That's a load of bull. There certainly aren't any Obama supporters in my entire Jewish family, that's for sure.

[CGP]

I think Hillary performed brilliantly in the debate. She spoke with conviction and skill, and with a depth of knowledge which far exceeded her opponent's in my opinion.

[johnny51981]

Well now...he agreed with agreed with her A LOT...so does that mean that he too spoke with conviction, skill and with deep knowledge? LMAO. I'm just being totally sarcastic. She polished that table with him.

[SwiftFox]

There certainly aren't any Obama supporters in my entire Jewish family, that's for sure.
I'm also Jewish, and everyone in my family supports Hillary.

[UNBREAKABLE]

Feb 27 2008 12:32 AM

Finally, what I expected...you did it, you rolled up your sleeves, took off the gloves and got alittle dirty, however you should have let him bury himself with the support issue, he claims he didnt ask for. I would not have said, that I have had the same problem in the past. That was his wiggle time, you helped him wiggle out of it. That gave the media something else to say about you. We all know it's us against the Media, don't give them ammo to fire at you.

[UNBREAKABLE]

It means she is the horse and he is the cart!

[SwiftFox]

Well now...he agreed with agreed with her A LOT.
Yeah, he tends to agree with her, and in the debate in Texas, just parroted her left and right when he had nothing intelligent of his own to say. Some Hillary supporters suggest, facetiously of course, that since he agrees with her so much, why doesn't he endorse her?

[CGP]

Review at MSNBC:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23349901/

-----

[UNBREAKABLE]

You Want The Horse Or The Cart?

Hilary Is The Horse She Pulled The Entire Debate, While Obama Sit In The Cart.

I Want The Horse You Take The Cart....

[SwiftFox]

Did anyone else think it was deliberate on MSNBC's part when they aired the clip of Hillary "lampooning" Obama's speeches? They claimed it was an error, and they later showed a pretty innocuous and very short Obama clip that didn't seem to relate to anything they were talking about.

It seemed deliberate to me, especially since they asked Hillary about it.

[BloodDAnna]

This whole campaign makes me think that I'm in an X Files episode seriously. All of the suspicious stuff, does anyone remember this happening prior to this campaign?

[skc1976]

Hey everyone!

As I said in the title, "NBC = National Barack Campaign." Never was this more evident than in watching tonight's debate from Ohio on MSNBC. At four points tonight, I had to hit pause so that we could all calm down from the questioning that was going on and how it was clearly biased against Hillary Clinton. It disgusts me to think that the last debate before March 4th was this farce that MSNBC aired for America. So, with that said, I'm going to start in on my analysis of this event that was held tonight.

In regards to MSNBC's debate:

1) First off, I want to say, "Shut up Tim Russert!" I got so tired of him time and time again interrupting the candidates in their replies to his questions. He had every opportunity to fire a question back at them after their reply, he didn't need to interrupt them. Of course, he did this to Hillary the most often.

2) Shame on Brian Williams and Tim Russert for continuously allowing Barack Obama the last word. It seemed every time she made a point, that hand went up of Obama's and there he was getting in the last word. Hillary, a couple of times, was successful in getting another reply in there, but it still ended up with him raising that hand and getting another last word. And of course, Brian Williams told Hillary to hold the thought and they'd come back to it after commercial and they never did.

3) When they played the "wrong footage" of Hillary Clinton's speech in Rhode Island and then tried to cover it up with that comment, my first reply was "yeah, right." Considering that they instantly went on the offensive with her clip from Cincinnati to open the debate, it was evident that they were going for the sensationalism over a real debate on the issues. If they wanted to talk about tactics, there were far better ways of doing it. And notice, they always picked the juiciest parts to show and not the full meat.

Now, let me move on to Barack Obama.

1) His comment about "whining" was definitely something I found very rude and a condescending slap at Hillary Clinton. I'm sure that if everyone was overwhelmingly for her against him, he would be "whining" too. That comment set the tone for me in relation to him all night long.

2) I get so tired of him finishing off almost every statement with "as President of the United States." I think that we're all aware of the position that Obama is running for. Of course, I've read accounts that say his speeches seem to be filled with underlying messages along the subliminal lines. I'm sure that with his saying this so much, he's trying to subconsciously convince people of him being the next President of the United States. Fortunately, mind control doesn't work well with me.

3) Once again, he used the "I agree" sentiment numerous times with Clinton. Given that she goes first, that gives him the ability to follow up with "I agree." I found it really interesting that when it goes to NAFTA and Hillary says that she'd renegotiate NAFTA with Canada and Mexico or opt out that he follows up with an agreement to her statement. He's been trying to hit her hard on NAFTA and steal her voters away through this issue and then when it comes his chance to shine, he goes with "I agree." Darn it Obama, be the leader that you claim to be! And I really hope that her campaign hits his campaign hard on this chance for him to shine and then he ends up behind her in agreement.

4) One thing that bothers me is that in relation to the war in Iraq, both candidates (and Obama did it tonight) seem to measure the lives and the dollars in the same sentence. I didn't realize it as much until tonight when Obama did it and that really disturbed me. The loss of lives there is far greater than the monetary costs. I didn't seem to sense much difference in the inflection of his tone and that worries me.

5) In his ending statement, he talks about race and religion, but leaves out orientation. If this man is such an advocate for the GLBTQ community, as his campaign wants you to believe, then why not include orientation in there. I'm sure that it's a taboo subject, but this goes back to being a leader. Numerous times I felt Hillary Clinton stand up tonight on issues, and in a time when Obama could have been a leader with a prime opportunity to add in orientation, he dropped the ball.

6) Speaking of his ending statement, did you get the feeling of deja vu? Did you feel that it was Thursday of last week and you were in Austin, Texas and Hillary Clinton was speaking from the heart to close out a debate to a standing ovation? But wait, what was missing? THE STANDING OVATION! In another typical copy from a man that lacks originality, he tried to copy a moment that was really the embodiment of Hillary Clinton. Of course, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and given all the imitation that he does of Hillary Clinton and her polices and stances, he flatters her so much he should just quit the race and endorse her instead!

Now, on to Hillary Clinton.

1) I CHEER on Hillary for finally hitting Barack Obama on a lack of responsibility in relation to Iraq in 2002! I've been saying this for a couple debates now, sent in an email to her campaign, and finally glad to see that she hit him with it. He wasn't in the Senate, he wasn't taking the vote, and it's easy to cheer or jeer from the sidelines. And his comment about starting his campaign in 2002 around this issue didn't make much sense to me. Did he start his Senate campaign two years before the election of the Senator for Illinois? If so, that's one of the only times I've actually seen or heard him being ahead of the game on something. But again, it goes back to the fact that he was not in the Senate to vote.

2) I commend her for saying that if she could take back one vote, it would be the one for Iraq. To me, it just shows that hindsight is indeed 20/20 and if Barack Obama can use it, so can Hillary Clinton. I just wish she would hammer him though on the fact that what the Senate was presented wasn't what came about and that they were lied to.

3) I found her answer for Tim Russert about Buffalo was great. We all hoped (and thought) that Gore would be the President in 2000. I'm sure many campaigns ran upon this happening. But, she presented very clear visions on how that five million new jobs could be realized. And she presented a fact from the Clinton administration about how even that figure could be a low ball figure and America can well exceed five million new jobs. This is the vision of a leader.

4) I actually enjoyed her reference to "Saturday Night Live." She does seem to often be put first in order for Barack Obama to follow her with his usual "I agree" comment and then a rephrasing of what she has said. I did get that feeling that they were going to ask him if he needed anything or if he was comfortable.

5) Good for Hillary Clinton in her references to Afghanistan in an attack of Barack Obama. He cites that he was put into the position at the beginning of 2007 when he was engaged in a campaign for the Democratic Presidential nomination. This comment from him leads me to believe that he cannot handle more than one of the proverbial hats at a time. I also got the feeling that he's more concerned about his nomination than about his duties and responsibilities in the Senate with that remark. If he couldn't handle being in that position and running a campaign, then he should have resigned the position and let someone that would be able to handle it the chance to do so. Again, another sign of not being a capable leader.

6) Kudos to Hillary Clinton for pressing a yes or no answer in relation to the endorsement he received from Louis Farrakhan. He was waffling on the question as not to put off or offend anyone and she made him lay it on the line with a yes or no answer. I thought that was a great moment for her.

7) I commend Clinton on being in tune with what is going on with Russia. It was evident that Obama hasn't focused too far out of his own campaign to realize what's going on with the world. That's probably because he doesn't feel he needs the world to secure the nomination. If he did, he'd definitely be in tune with what's going on. But yet again, Obama offered up the typical "I agree."

8) I noticed that in the "closing comments" that the MSNBC debate wasn't supposed to have (probably to thwart Clinton from having another heartwarming connection with America), she received applause during her final comments. Again, she connected with the audience. That's more that can be said for Obama's obvious attempt at creating an Obamacopy of her final thoughts in Texas. It's great to see her bring up the gender card in a race that has allowed sexism to be acceptable but not racism. Her comment about being the first woman President being a "sea change" and a challenge to what has been done is something that has been needed to be said. All men may be created equal, but this woman is far above the average that men are being equal on.

It's just sad that both CNN (Clinton Negative Network) and NBC (National Barack Campaign) outlets are so biased towards Barack Obama and so against Hillary Clinton. Of course, to Obama and his drones of supporters, that statement would be considered "whiny." But darn it, it's the obvious truth to everyone outside of being an Obamian.

And I stand behind this, even though he feels the need to copy every positive that Hillary Clinton has in her campaign (be it about policy, issues, solutions, or leadership), a vote for Obama as the nominee is not a vote for Clinton. A vote for Obama in the general election as the Democratic nominee is a vote for underhanded corruption, a true lack of leadership, and a support of supporters that have used every nasty trick in the book to steal a vote away from Hillary Clinton. If that is change we can believe in and what we vote for, then I think that America might get what it deserves for another four years. If you think George W. Bush was bad, elect another inexperienced person that you'd rather invite out for a beer than lead your country.

Sadly, the media is doing their best to decide this Presidential nomination and take the voice away from the voter by swaying them in favor of who they back. Tonight was proof again of this fact. But, I can say one thing for Hillary Clinton, she did an amazing job in spite of MSNBC doing their best to show a biased towards Barack Obama. If she can do this well against a biased media, think of how well she'll do against the GOP. I'll continue to cheer her on until the end, which I hope will be the nomination. It scares me to think that the Democrats will be nominating "Bush the Third." But then again, history does repeat itself. I'm hoping that America will wake up in time to not allow that to happen and to rally behind Hillary Clinton, the ONLY real choice for the Democratic nomination and to be the NEXT President of the United States of America.

Again, sorry for the length, but I had many points I wanted to convey about this debate. Hope you're all doing wonderfully!

[BloodDAnna]

That was a good commentary on what went on. You should post that in a blog if you haven't already.

[joeysky18]

yes, really good comment Sean. You should post your comment somewhere.

i posted in myDD that all I heard from Obama was I agree with Hillary.

And Obots told me that I probably didn't listen to the whole thing, cause Obama made a lot of good statements.

I told them, I listen to the whole gaddamn thing and this is all I heard from him. "I Agree".

Obama The Ditto

[CGP]

Sean - your analysis is excellent. Thank you. You should try and post that elsewhere as well to get more exposure.

This entire nomination process has really shown me, again, how powerful the media really can be. They have the power to push any agenda they wish to and to influence the public consciousness in such a direct way. Hillary Clinton won this doubt on so many levels, there is no questioning that. And yet we still see the media trying to turn things around and misrepresenting reality to ensure BO is made out to be the "winner". It's a complete and utter joke. I lost count of the number of times BO copied her answers. And his final "statement" was a direct lift of Hillary's finaly statement from Texas. He seems completely unoriginal and lacking in independent thought. If last night was a job interview for any normal job, we all know who'd be getting the job.

[CGP]

Did anyone else think it was deliberate on MSNBC's part when they aired the clip of Hillary "lampooning" Obama's speeches? They claimed it was an error, and they later showed a pretty innocuous and very short Obama clip that didn't seem to relate to anything they were talking about.

It seemed deliberate to me, especially since they asked Hillary about it.

It was no error. And how ridiculous of them to even claim it was. It was intentional.

[joeysky18]

Hillary kicked ass in the debate last night. Forget the MSM, there aregood reports from the ground in Texas and Ohio The campaign continues to reach out aggressively for volunteers and campaign contributions. Are we answering the call?

Here's how you can get involved:

1. Go to Texas or Ohio.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/hq

2. If you can't get your boots on the ground, make calls.
http://tools.hillaryclinton.com/calling

3. Donate at least $10 today.
https://contribute.hillaryclinton.com/form.html?sc=1

Don't give up, dig in, make calls, keep reaching out to voters, keep blogging. Hillary will make the best president. We know, probably better than anyone on the planet, Obama is going to get creamed by the Republicans in the general election. By not doing everything we can for Hillary now, only helps John McCain and puts the Republicans back in the White House.

[CGP]

Go to the link below from Hillary's site which lists some of the more positive reviews of the Ohio debate:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=6228

[CGP]

Outstanding analysis of the debate, as always, by Taylor Marsh:

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27102

[CGP]

A couple of good paragraphs from Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-schlesinger/the-slant-against-hillary_b_88710.html

What was astonishing about last night's debate was that the very bias which the Clinton campaign has frequently complained about against her candidacy and in favor of Obama's campaign was once again plainly and unashamedly in evidence. It was embodied in the way Tim Russert, an angry scowl on his face, honed in on Hillary Clinton on the NAFTA issue -- and kept bullying her after every answer she gave. In contrast, he kept his fury in check when addressing Obama about the same issue. The only time he really focused some ire on Obama was over the Farrakhan issue.

Russert raised the idea of Obama rejecting Farrakhan rather than simply denouncing him but then never pursued it when Obama deflected the question with a non-answer. Finally it was Hillary Clinton who got Obama to agree to reject Farrakhan rather than simply denounce him. Next time Mr. Russert should watch Saturday Night Live on his own NBC network to find out what NBC's own highly regarded show thinks about the continuing bias against Hillary.

[skc1976]

Outstanding analysis of the debate, as always, by Taylor Marsh:

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27102

This is definitely an amazing piece!

And it prompts me of a point that I left out against Obama last night. It's funny that when Tim Russert was quoting some of Farrakhan's remarks, Obama stopped him as not to let him say more than he had to. And then stated we all know what Farrakhan has said. I'm sure there are many out there that aren't aware of the remarks this man has made. But, it was an obvious effort on Obama's part to quell what could become a nasty issue for him. And it sickens me that Tim Russert didn't press the issue further like he was doing with Clinton earlier.

Also, thank you everyone for the great responses. If any of you want to share it anywhere to give it exposure, feel free. I have it in my blog on MySpace and on HillaryClinton.com. I'm not sure of many places to "blog" thoughts like that for exposure. That's one reason I'm so thankful for this forum, I'm able to talk with fellow supporters. :D

[CGP]

Taylor Marsh, more so than any other journalist, has really been able to cut through the Obamamania and critically assess what has really been happening in this election. It's very satisfying to read her articles as they confirm everything I see going on!

[CGP]

Review of the debate by ABC News:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4350873&page=1

[skc1976]

Review of the debate by ABC News:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4350873&page=1

I have to give ABC News credit, it was a better review than most I've read about the debate. And it seemed to try and present it from an "in the middle" stance. Not a bad review. :D

[CGP]

I have to give ABC News credit, it was a better review than most I've read about the debate. And it seemed to try and present it from an "in the middle" stance. Not a bad review. :D

Jack Tapper (co-author) is one of the few in mainstream media who has been nice to Hillary. He has written some good blogs in the Political Punch section at ABC News.

[BloodDAnna]

www.sodahead.com is similar to MySpace, it has blogs and polls as well as live ongoing chats coinciding with the polls. Alot of tough Hillary fans there being attacked by the Obamanites. I found them through some post on here.

[skc1976]

I'll have to look into sodahead. Never been there before, so it will be fun. :-)

[CGP]

I'll have to look into sodahead. Never been there before, so it will be fun. :-)

Yeah, I haven't had anything to do with that one either...

[BloodDAnna]

This came out on his anti NAFTA bit in the debate....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LtbLEKHsi0
Glad to know Canadians actually still report news