Discussion on the 2nd Round of the Texas Caucus Held 3/29/08

[xyndau]

Updated/Edited: I changed the caption given that more results have come. A good discussion though in this thread, with links to the Burn Orange site.


"Texas caucus conventions running again (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080329/ap_on_el_pr/texas_caucus_7).
By KELLEY SHANNON, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 34 minutes ago

AUSTIN, Texas - Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama scrambled to secure Texas' last remaining Democratic National Convention delegates Saturday as the state pushed to settle the outcome of the March 4 caucus. Early results tallied by The Associated Press showed that Clinton had 301 delegates, or 60 percent, compared to Obama's 202 delegates, or 40 percent. That's out of about 7,300 delegates expected to be selected at about 280 county and senate district meetings across the state Saturday."

[HillWill]

Are you serious? Best news of the day!

[Annie]

What happened? Wow! Pray it continues..... wowee.....yippee...hurrah...... GREAT..... GO HILLARY!

:D:D:D

P.S. Nevertheless I still don't like caucus - too many problems as we have seen in Texas with Obamabots.

[rene.d]

Yeah, now they're tied... here's a tally

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pCVgf3tYDGBevq1NB-GJHdw

[lanney]

Great news, That made my days.

[hills]

Before you get too happy, you need to know that Obama did it again. Some Hillary delegates were called and told the caucus had been rescheduled to a different place and when they got there, they were told to go to the orignal place but by then it was too late to sign in.

So don't get too happy yet. Wait and see what happens.

[samkm]

Before you get too happy, you need to know that Obama did it again. Some Hillary delegates were called and told the caucus had been rescheduled to a different place and when they got there, they were told to go to the orignal place but by then it was too late to sign in.

So don't get too happy yet. Wait and see what happens.

yes, and some had unusually large turnout of certain segments of population and mega loads of confusion. e.g., Midland County and its associated 3-county precinct.

I hope the final results are more reflective of the actual primary than the flawed caucus process.

[RachachaSharon]

Before you get too happy, you need to know that Obama did it again. Some Hillary delegates were called and told the caucus had been rescheduled to a different place and when they got there, they were told to go to the orignal place but by then it was too late to sign in.

So don't get too happy yet. Wait and see what happens.

This kind of stuff has to be stopped. Why don't the party authorities in TX or the DNC do something about it? Oh, wait, I must have lost my mind for a minute. As long as it favors BO, it's OK. I only hope Murray is right that what goes around comes around. I want to be there when it happens!

[luvhillary]

It's not looking good. :(

[Wyoming Dem]

http://burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5484

[pnevai]

Oh boy depending on how this turns out, Pennsilvania may be irrelevent. The numbers have to swing

Obama 54%
Clinton 45%

[rhinegold]

well, maybe at least we can close the gap somewhat. Only ~26% of conventions reporting at the moment, and one of the Obama strongholds, Travis County (Austin) has already reported.

[Robin Orlowski]

I did not get picked to go to my State convention as a delegate:( I then applied as a female w/ disabilities at large diversity alternate under the Party rules.

Hopefully. I will get picked after presenting my EXTENSIVE history within the Party and disability community (including the dems with disabilities community). I desperately want to attend the State convention in Austin TX.

It was disappointing because I think this denial was merely a matter of me being new to this precinct and not having a history with the people who had lived there for a longer time. They know each other and I could not count on them for favors as I had with my old neighborhood that I moved from.

There were a few Clinton supporters--and one pointedly left her Obama supporting daughter after she was sleeping in. She did not practice family compassion and wake her up for her very first county convention. But it is who you know.

It is good news about these percentages. I am wondering if some of that comes from the desertion of people who had gotten enraptured by their candidate's image--but did not want to do the actual work for nominating him, which yes, more of it is required the higher you get in these contests. They did not want to be the actual workers!

And out of that some could be youth, but others could be people who are new to elections and then just overhwhelmed.

Call it the wearing off of the kool-aid.

[RachachaSharon]

Why does everything have to be so freakin' complicated in TX?

[Wyoming Dem]

These so far are several of the Obama strongholds. Wait at see what the border counties (huge for Hillary in primary) do.

[pnevai]

Obama 58%
Clinton 41%

:(

[samkm]

Dont despair!!!

Texas had Primary + Caucus. Primary counted for 2/3rd of the delegates (to DNC) from TX and Caucus for 1/3 of the delegates (to DNC) from TX.

Hillary won the Primary, fair and square.

What they are figuring out now is the remaining 1/3rd of TX-DNC delegates.

There are major questions on how the Step-1 Caucus was won, and some of the tactics and issues that were observed and have been reported by participants and voters who got left outside the door in waiting lines. That caucus determined the caucus-delegates who went to the County conventions (step-2) today. So, there really were no major surprises in today's outcme, as the preselected population is breaking down by candidate.

I wouldnt draw major conclusion. One thing that can be seen from the numbers is that the gap appears to be slightly narrower than it was in Step-1.

Note that there is a Step-3 and that is the TX State Convention in Austin, which will finally decide the 1/3rd of the TX State Delegates to the DNC!!!

In Austin, at the State Convention, they will decide on the 1/3rd of total TX-DNC delegates.

Yep.. it is that long and arduous process.. but it will ensure that people get to know of the closet secrets of the candidate they are looking at before they actually have their final say, which is in Austin.:)

[PuppyDogMom]

Sheesh...what do they eat in Texas? Is there some logic to this long, drawn-out affair?

Sounds like things are playing out as expected.

[turtle]

I just returned from my senate convention. Our long time party leaders did a great job running the convention. The "newbies" to the process were rude and ingorant. As an aside where have these people been while we were trying to get Democrats elected in Harris County- watching TV?. Three of our Clinton delegates did not show so we lost our majority and our state delegate is a nobama guy. During the process a nobama delegate in another precint decided to change to Hillary- the credentials committee approved the change which flipped that preninct to Hillary. The nobama folks challenged the ruling so it went to the floor. Which brings me to the point- the nobama speaker on the issue finished by raising her arm and showing her fist. Most of us over the age of 40 were and are offended- however there were great portions of the crowd who roared in approval. This sealed the deal for many of us- we cannot vote for hate. by the way he won our convention 81 to 49, the caucus system is a joke- who can spend hours camping out. Those of us with jobs, families and lives cannot spend 17 hours sitting around waiting to vote.

[Ohio mom]

ya'll have got me confused as hell!! :confused::p

[samkm]

Quoting NY Times site: Source Ref: http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/TX.html
Of the state's 193 pledged delegates, 126 are assigned proportionally based on the election results in the 31 state Senate districts, which have varying numbers of delegates depending on their level of support for the Democratic nominees in the most recent presidential and gubernatorial elections. After the voting ends on March 4, caucuses are convened to select delegates to county and Senate district conventions. At these conventions, held on March 29, the delegates to the state convention are chosen, and, ultimately, 67 pledged delegates are chosen at the state convention on June 6 and 7. Of the 35 unpledeged delegates, 32 are party leaders, and three others are elected at the state convention.

My notes from March-4th.

PLEDGED DELEGATES: 193 Total Pledged Delegates = 126 from Primary + 67 from the result of the Caucus Process (local caucus+county convention+state convention process)
4-Mar Texas [Primary] Barack-48% Hillary-51% Allocation of Pledged Delegates: Barack-61; Hillary-65 = total=126 pledged delegates

Caucus Process:
Step 1: 4-Mar Texas [Caucus] Barack-55.8% Hillary-44.1% Allocation of Pledged Delegates: TBD-after State convention in Austin.
Local delegates to County Conventions were chosen based on the Caucus.

Step:2: March 29th: [County Conventions in precincts] delegates to Austin State convention were chosen.

Step 3: June 6-7: [State Convention in Austin] will decide the split of the 67 pledged delegates.

UNPLEDGED DELEGATES = 35
35 unpledeged delegates, 32 are party leaders, and three others are elected at the state convention.

[SunnyInCal]

I have to admit, I just don't understand these caucuses. They already caucused in March, what in the bloody heck are they doing now?

This is the most screwed up system any country could think of I tell ya.

Before you get too happy, you need to know that Obama did it again. Some Hillary delegates were called and told the caucus had been rescheduled to a different place and when they got there, they were told to go to the orignal place but by then it was too late to sign in.

So don't get too happy yet. Wait and see what happens.

[Ohio mom]

I have to admit, I just don't understand these caucuses. They already caucused in March, what in the bloody heck are they doing now?

This is the most screwed up system any country could think of I tell ya.

My thoughts exactly!!!:confused:

[emmyCA]

I dont understand. I thought the caucaus for Texas was done on March 4. Why do we have it again today???

[lea210]

lol what is round 2??? Also confused.

[Ohio mom]

LOL I am so glad I am not the only one that has no idea what is going on!!!:p

[Ijane]

I just returned from my senate convention. Our long time party leaders did a great job running the convention.

Thank You, Turtle!!! :)

Dont despair!!!

Texas had Primary + Caucus. Primary counted for 2/3rd of the delegates (to DNC) from TX and Caucus for 1/3 of the delegates (to DNC) from TX.

Hillary won the Primary, fair and square.

What they are figuring out now is the remaining 1/3rd of TX-DNC delegates.

There are major questions on how the Step-1 Caucus was won, and some of the tactics and issues that were observed and have been reported by participants and voters who got left outside the door in waiting lines. That caucus determined the caucus-delegates who went to the County conventions (step-2) today. So, there really were no major surprises in today's outcme, as the preselected population is breaking down by candidate.


Dear sweet Sudhakm, I don't understand what the heck you're talking about but you've made me feel so much better anyway. Thank you! :)

[samkm]

Caucus was only Round 1 of 3 to decide "one-third of the TX-pledged delegates"(=67 pledged delegates) to DNC.

Today was Round 2 (of 3)

June 6-7 will be Round 3 (of 3) where these 67 delegates to the national DNC will be decided.

It is a long and arduouos process, littered with issues we have already seen at caucus time with people being left out, non-present grandma being added to the list, etc.. and today, with allegation received so far that our delegates apparently being called by BO's party being given wrong location and time.

[hillary4change]

I moved to Az. in 8/06 from Tx. I always voted. Was not aware of the caucus system. BUT there never was a race so close. That is why it wasn't necessary and we as working Dems were unaware of the sytem. Hence all the confusion. I knew Hillary would win there even though it was a repub. Hillary hating stronghold. Here is why, remember Oprah and the whole beef mess and she was sued by the Texas ranchers. They hate her and she supports bo. You couldnt even get Oprah on T.V. up in the panhandle until a few years ago. She was in Tx. going to court and doing her show there in 1998 or 97. Texans hate her!!! Theres a little Texas history for you.

[Patricia GA]

This is so confusing. Are they done with this round 2 in Texas now...or is it still going on this evening? If it is done...is the count finished for round 2? What a mess!

[pnevai]

Getting worse

Obama 59%
Clinton 40%

At this rate she will end up loosing Texas

[Wyoming Dem]

Okay, go to this link and look at the results by county. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pCVgf3tYDGBevq1NB-GJHdw
If you look at the map that CNN has of who won which counties (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#TX)
and then compare them to this map with the names of counties written on it
http://insects.tamu.edu/images/icons/txcounties.gif
You will see that the big numbers came from the same big counties Obama won on primary evening. LOTS of smaller counties that Hillary took still to report. I know this may be somewhat confusing what? where? what am I looking at? Geezzz@##@* Hope springs eternal!

[Dawnelle]

This is what MY party reminds me of with this TEXAS crapola!

Like red-tide infested waters that cause the whales to go off course and keep beaching themselves. No matter how hard we would try to convince them they are going the wrong direction they just are too INFESTED with the red tide bacteria to understand and get a GRIP (some do manage but they are the ones less infected)

I guess its that dang Barackoolaid infecting some of these LIBs to a degree I am no longer even recognizing them as MY party!

I just can't stand the thought of watching them beach themselves with this election.

again

damn red tide

[xyndau]

Any further updates that anyone is aware of? The Burnt Orange Report was last updated at 1:10 pm. The tally on the front page of Burnt Orange (http://burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5484) appears dated, when compared to the spreadsheet that site has generated (PERCENT Hillary 44.05% : Obama 55.95% : Total reporting 83.03% : Conventions Reporting 54.93%). But the county-by-county results linked on Burnt Orange (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pCVgf3tYDGBevq1NB-GJHdw) has what appears to be more updated numbers, showing Hillary much closer - with 56% of the county conventions report, Hillary at 37.20% and Obama at 46.75%, for a difference of 9.55%.

Is anyone familiar enough with Texas to know which of the county conventions remaining are pro Hillary vs. pro Obama?

[RachachaSharon]

What the heck does this even mean? From everything I've been hearing about the Obamabots, I wouldn't even believe the results.

[Viktoriya]

Texas is very intersting state. Who came up with this system?

[Wyoming Dem]

I had to go to the CNN Texas County Map and then
here to put names on the counties Hillary won. Pain-In-The-Butt!
http://www.pushupstairs.com/images/emoticon/extra2/Demonstration.gif

[Christines]

In todays front page of the Los Angeles Times, there is an article on the knock out drag out conflicts seen in Texas Caucus yesterday. It looks like Hillary supporters didn't let the Obama people intimidate them!

[Jayling]

Is anyone familiar enough with Texas to know which of the county conventions remaining are pro Hillary vs. pro Obama?
xy, I'm working on the numbers and results, comparing them to the 31 Senatorial Districts she won in the Primary. I do need more numbers to come in before posting more specifics. All this is a time-consuming job.

But if these numbers hold up, the estimates that everyone used from back on March 4th, before they stopped the counting of the first caucus due to the mess they had, well, it looks like she'll gain 1 delegate from our initial estimate. But again, there's more numbers yet to come in which can flip a thousandth of a percentage point the opposite way.

:)

[SunnyInCal]

That is the whole point. If all these caucuses were primaries Hillary would be winning. The point of caucuses is to only let those who have absolutely nothing else to do for hours on end come out. And supposedly if you're not at the place at the exact time you get left out. In a primary you have all day to vote and if you have an absentee ballot you have days to vote. Hillary supporters, as shown by many polls, tend to be the working party part of the Democratic Party. They are too busy working or caring for their family. And this is the part of the Party that Howard Dean would like to ignore. Caucuses are part of an old time political tradition which needs to give way to current reality. So Obama, who runs on a new type of politics, relies on old time politics to win.

by the way he won our convention 81 to 49, the caucus system is a joke- who can spend hours camping out. Those of us with jobs, families and lives cannot spend 17 hours sitting around waiting to vote.

[xyndau]

I found a couple of very interesting links on information from the Saturday's Texas caucus. Sounds like it was a royal mess . . ..

Houston Politics (http://blogs.chron.com/houstonpolitics/)

Houston Chronicle Main Section (http://www.chron.com/news/politics/)- Several Articles & Comments

[no_more_bush]

So is it over? How many delegates did Hillary and Obama get?:confused:

[Patricia GA]

http://www.valleymorningstar.com/news/associated_22750___article.html/caucus_press.html

Texas caucus update
March 30, 2008 - 4:00PM

The Associated Press

Here is the apportionment so far of presidential caucus delegates to the Texas Democratic state convention based on reports from Saturday's county and senate district conventions. A total of about 7,300 delegates were expected to be selected in this stage of the caucus process, according to the Texas Democratic Party.

These results are from 146 of about 280 conventions.

Clinton: 1,511 delegates, or 40 percent

Obama: 2,235 delegates, or 60 percent.

[Charlie Brown]

Texas is the state that should not have there delegates count with the mess it was.

[turtle]

Its not over until the state convention in June. I spoke today to several Clinton delegates at conventions other than my own to determine if my experience was an isolated incident but the consensus is that many Obama supporters think that using abusive and intimidating tactics is appropriate behavior. The adults in the process are through. If this type of activity continues at our state convention we will walk out. Obama is not getting our votes. His lack of judgment matches those of his supporters and we are not impressed.

[Suzan]

I don't understand the caucus process, but something's wrong. How is it possible for one candidate to win the primary election and the other to win the caucuses by something like a 20% margin, if that's what it comes out to be???

That's too big a discrepancy. What's the explanation unless voters--lots of them--switched from Hillary to BO. Is that possible?

[Jayling]

I don't understand the caucus process, but something's wrong. How is it possible for one candidate to win the primary election and the other to win the caucuses by something like a 20% margin, if that's what it comes out to be???

That's too big a discrepancy. What's the explanation unless voters--lots of them--switched from Hillary to BO. Is that possible?
Nope, it's because Caucuses disenfranchise the majority of people.

*Caucuses aren't a true reflection of the voting preferences for an entire state
*Caucuses are unable to sustain the record-breaking amount of voters
*Caucuses disenfranchise a great many people

* Caucuses are difficult for:
* the elderly to attend
* shift-workers
* Blue-Collar workers
* Mothers with children
* the Disabled
* those who are poor
* those who are shy
* those who dislike the bullying
* those who fear the intimidation

^^ those are the base of the Democratic Party -- the majority being Hillary Supporters.

Caucuses are a thing of the past and have no place in the 21st Century

[Charlie Brown]

We Tried Too Vote It Out At The County Convention...but Iowa Isnt Giving It Up ..they Make A Ton Of Money On It...all The Media Coming To Town...its A Huge Money Maker...but At Our County Convention It Vote 8-9 And Lost. I Voted To End Caucuses For The Reason Its Unfair To So Many Voters.
Also I Think States Should Take Turns, Iowa Shouldnt Be First Always. Just Think If Like Nebraska Went First You Might See More People Get Involved If They Had A Chance At The Spot Light...this Is Coming From Someone That Loves The Attention, But Fair Is Fair And Everyone Should Get A Shot.

[Robin Orlowski]

* Caucuses are difficult for:
* the Disabled
* those who are poor



This I disagree with. I saw myself who was supporting Clinton, an OB supporter and other PWDs--all hardly rich--at our local caucus site. We were able to participate, and the caucus site was physicially accessible for those other PWDS.

A blanket statement saying that people with disabilities cannot participate is problematic.

I think overall, the caucuses might pose the biggest obstacles to shift workers and the shy. Unlike private voting in a booth, you have a group mentality, where people see who each other is voting for.

You might get herded into following that group if you have a rambunctious caucus leader, irrespective of your personal actual preferences.

And having raced off of a temp job which ended near the time which my caucus began, I can vouch that the fixed timing is a disincentive for some people to participate. You have to be there---again w/out the flexibility of early voting.

[emmyCA]

Saturday, the Web site burntorangereport.com urged county-conventiongoers to call in results, and now reports that with 200 of 284 conventions reporting, Obama is ahead with 55.5% of the delegates to Clinton’s 44.5%. If his margin were to hold, Obama would win 37 delegates to Clinton’s 30, wiping out her lead and her claims to have won Texas.
But hold on, says the Web site: about 10% of the delegates are yet to be counted, and most of them come from smaller, rural counties where Clinton generally does well. Also, Texas has its own superdelegates—300 party bigwigs who will go to the state convention with the option of supporting either candidate.


http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/31/in-texas-the-vote-count-goes-onand-on-and-on/?mod=WSJBlog

[JMS825]

I am lost I thought Hillary won in TX how is she loading 55%-44%