I Officially Resign...

[WV4Hillary]

Hi guys,

I've been a member of this forum for so long, it seems like a part of my life. First we fought for Hillary, then for McCain, it was great! But...it seems Obama's election has caused everything to crumble - including this forum.

One thing I always loved about this place was that we were all supportive. We all knew each other, and we never fought. I went to DU and saw how they had to constantly fight "trolls" and just a constant mentality to "be on the lookout"...it looked awful.

Now that we've become "Common Ground Politics", we're no different. We now have to argue with Obama supporters, and this place has been ruined. I mean, I know that Murray secretly supported Obama after Hillary dropped out (notice he rarely posted, and when he did he seemed to be on neither side), and I thought it was nice he let us go on supporting McCain in his forum, but that's over now. Longtime members, who viewed this Forum as a place of safety and refuge, a place for real "moderates" have seen the whole atmosphere change. One by one, we're leaving...and today I join their ranks.

Thank you everyone...it was great while it lasted...maybe one day we will again find each other in cyberspace...joining together over Hillary's next campaign. Until then, goodbye..

[ZY123]

Weren't you one of the ones I saw attacked and called a troll on election night here by the long term members? I'm not antagonizing just saying.....for such a great place I would think as a long time member that wouldn't be very pleasant to be treated that way by people you stood side by side fighting with for so long.

And that happened before the name change.

[CGP]

I know that Murray secretly supported Obama after Hillary dropped out (notice he rarely posted, and when he did he seemed to be on neither side), and I thought it was nice he let us go on supporting McCain in his forum, but that's over now.

Sorry, you are very mistaken.

Distinterest in supporting McCain did not constitute support for Obama.

That was one of the downfalls of the period between August and November - any HCF member who did not express allegiance to McCain was automatically deemed an "obamabot" - unreasaonble and unfair.

[JuseHedd]

Hi guys,

I've been a member of this forum for so long, it seems like a part of my life. First we fought for Hillary, then for McCain, it was great! But...it seems Obama's election has caused everything to crumble - including this forum.

One thing I always loved about this place was that we were all supportive. We all knew each other, and we never fought. I went to DU and saw how they had to constantly fight "trolls" and just a constant mentality to "be on the lookout"...it looked awful.

Now that we've become "Common Ground Politics", we're no different. We now have to argue with Obama supporters, and this place has been ruined. I mean, I know that Murray secretly supported Obama after Hillary dropped out (notice he rarely posted, and when he did he seemed to be on neither side), and I thought it was nice he let us go on supporting McCain in his forum, but that's over now. Longtime members, who viewed this Forum as a place of safety and refuge, a place for real "moderates" have seen the whole atmosphere change. One by one, we're leaving...and today I join their ranks.

Thank you everyone...it was great while it lasted...maybe one day we will again find each other in cyberspace...joining together over Hillary's next campaign. Until then, goodbye..

I'm not here to antagoinze people who don't support Obama, just giving you a fair pov from one of his supporters.

I noticed that by monitoring this website, forums used to ONLY be everything Hillary, anti-Obama, then Everything McCain anti-Obama.

It sucks were you can't have to different view points, I hate having EVERYONE agree with me. If you think Obama is a racist muslim whatever whatever that's fine that's your opinion but don't back down when one rebuttals your claim. IT helps broaden your mind.

Just want to have the Hillary/McCain loyalist look at it from my persepctive and vice versa, nothing more nothing less.

[WV4Hillary]

Murray, I apologize then. It doesn't change the current atmosphere of the forum, however.

[WV4Hillary]

This forum almost feels like the Democratic Party - toss aside the centrists when they're no longer needed.

[mjno7777]

I'm not here to antagoinze people who don't support Obama, just giving you a fair pov from one of his supporters.

I noticed that by monitoring this website, forums used to ONLY be everything Hillary, anti-Obama, then Everything McCain anti-Obama.

It sucks were you can't have to different view points, I hate having EVERYONE agree with me. If you think Obama is a racist muslim whatever whatever that's fine that's your opinion but don't back down when one rebuttals your claim. IT helps broaden your mind.

Just want to have the Hillary/McCain loyalist look at it from my persepctive and vice versa, nothing more nothing less.


Different viewpoints are not tolerated at DU. And HUFFPO.

[CGP]

Different viewpoints are not tolerated at DU. And HUFFPO.

Hence why they are so boring and, in my view, toxic.

Simarily if HCF only wishes to have one viewpoint - a monoview - how is it any different?

That is my question to everyone. And that is why I wish to pursue CGP as something different.

[SoCal4Hillary]

I know that Murray secretly supported Obama after Hillary dropped out (notice he rarely posted, and when he did he seemed to be on neither side)I have no idea where you got that idea. Murray, like a lot of us, was less than enthusiastic about supporting McCain, but to the best of my knowledge he was always anti-Obama.

Anyway, I really hope you'll reconsider leaving. Why not stay and help turn this into its new incarnation?

[dalexander06]

I don't understand why alot of you guys want to be so closed off from dissenting opinions. If you guys were confident in your opinions then you wouldn't mind dealing with people who have different trains of thought. Not all Obama supporters want to "troll" and gloat in victory. I myself have come in hopes of engaging positive debate (same reason why I'm a member of the hannity forums). Things get boring when EVERYONE has the same ideals and viewpoints.

[ZY123]

I have no idea where you got that idea. Murray, like a lot of us, was less than enthusiastic about supporting McCain, but to the best of my knowledge he was always anti-Obama.

Anyway, I really hope you'll reconsider leaving. Why not stay and help turn this into its new incarnation?

I think people that were anti-Obama but not enough pro-McCain/Palin have now been labeled the "enemy". Which is sad considering the great group that was here during the primaries.

I think everyone should stay at least a few weeks and give it a chance...we don't know what will happen, it could turn out great, we have to wait and see.

[xfiles]

Disinterest in supporting McCain translated into a win for Obama the Fraud!

Sorry, you are very mistaken.

Distinterest in supporting McCain did not constitute support for Obama.

That was one of the downfalls of the period between August and November - any HCF member who did not express allegiance to McCain was automatically deemed an "obamabot" - unreasaonble and unfair.

[GaGirl]

I have been reading for the last several days and not posting. I was not one of the earlier forum members but once I got in, I was pretty active. I will still read for a while longer, but I am one of the members who sees a change in tone and message here.

My only thought about this election is one I have shared before. Maybe it is overly simplistic but it works for me. There is nothing today that is any different to me about Barack Obama than it was on November 4. Obama won the election but he didn't become a different person. I didn't vote for him because I didn't feel that he was the better of the choices given to me. When he shows me otherwise, I will speak well of those things I think he is doing well. I won't criticize him publically but I have no reason right now to publicly support him simply because he won the election.

Many of us on this Forum were/are loyal Democrats who did not instantly just accept the Bush presidency - especially in 2000. Were we eager to say of Bush in 2000,"He's my president?" Yet, we are asking McCain suporters to say that in 2008. Were we willing to hear from Bush supporters in 2000, "Get over it, Bush won". Yet we're willing to say that in 2008 to McCain supporters.

I understand that this forum may not think it can be a Hillary Clinton forum any longer. There are other places that can do that. I guess it is everyone's decision and choice to be where they feel most comfortable.

[CGP]

I don't understand why alot of you guys want to be so closed off from dissenting opinions. If you guys were confident in your opinions then you wouldn't mind dealing with people who have different trains of thought. Not all Obama supporters want to "troll" and gloat in victory. I myself have come in hopes of engaging positive debate (same reason why I'm a member of the hannity forums). Things get boring when EVERYONE has the same ideals and viewpoints.

This is my view also. I think monoview environments eventually become very stifling and absolutely foster suppression of expression which clashes with the monoview.

[CGP]

Disinterest in supporting McCain translated into a win for Obama the Fraud!

This is not directed at you at all but your comment made me think about something & the example applies equally to myself & my own behavior:

Can you see that when you say "Obama the fraud" a reasonable-minded Obama supporter might feel slighted? (even if he is fraud)

In the same way, when someone calls "Hillary a liar" can you see how I might feel slighted? (even if she did lie about something)

It's no different. Just because I think I am "right" about my opinion/feeling in no way ensures the other person feels any less "right" about their opinion.

Who is to judge who is right and who is wrong? I think I am "right" for supporting Hillary. An Obama supporter thinks he/she is "right" for supporting Obama. Ultimately, who decides who is "right"? Who is the judge? As such, the need to interact in a respectful manner becomes all the more important to prevent total breakdown in communication.

[lin_h]

I do think with some extra effort and constant moderation this forum can turn into a bipartisan forum but -- maybe it's still too early in the game?

I don't know the exact number of posters who were allowed entry this afternoon but at least 4 or 5 of them came in with an agenda.

The presentation is always the same, they make a slight remark about either Sarah or Hillary or a small defense against Obama and then the bait and switch happens.

They don't offer any background merely egg it on while they're questioning/ opinion slowly gets stronger. Boom.

It's a terrorist attack !

Maybe the way to do it is to allow a managable and defined number in at one time, all mods on deck - weed thenm out, let the dust settle, then add again.

Just a thought.

[Peppermint Patty]

Hi guys,

I've been a member of this forum for so long, it seems like a part of my life. First we fought for Hillary, then for McCain, it was great! But...it seems Obama's election has caused everything to crumble - including this forum.

One thing I always loved about this place was that we were all supportive. We all knew each other, and we never fought. I went to DU and saw how they had to constantly fight "trolls" and just a constant mentality to "be on the lookout"...it looked awful.

Now that we've become "Common Ground Politics", we're no different. We now have to argue with Obama supporters, and this place has been ruined. I mean, I know that Murray secretly supported Obama after Hillary dropped out (notice he rarely posted, and when he did he seemed to be on neither side), and I thought it was nice he let us go on supporting McCain in his forum, but that's over now. Longtime members, who viewed this Forum as a place of safety and refuge, a place for real "moderates" have seen the whole atmosphere change. One by one, we're leaving...and today I join their ranks.

Thank you everyone...it was great while it lasted...maybe one day we will again find each other in cyberspace...joining together over Hillary's next campaign. Until then, goodbye..

Okay, I'm confused... you posted this on election night:

11-04-2008, 07:49 PM
WV4Hillary's Avatar
WV4Hillary WV4Hillary is online now
Presidential Member = >1000 Posts

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,555
Poster Rank: #88
Arrow In all honesty, I'm sorta excited: Alternative Reactions to Obama's Victory
I wanted McCain to win, but now that Obama's won..

I'm sorta excited. I mean, in all honesty, who knows, right? What if he turns out to be a good president? What if he ushers in the Clinton era all over again? It's like...if McCain had won tonight, I would gloat, and be like TAKE THAT OBAMA...but deep down I'd feel as if we had just extended 4 more years of stagnation. With Obama - maybe things can (Oh geeze...I can't believe I'm gonna say this)....change. Hillary will keep an eye on the country and make sure nothing crazy happens - and there's now only going to be 59 Democratic Senators, so they CAN filibuster.

We'll be okay - let's give Obama a chance. I don't like him, I really don't, but if he ends up fixing this country....well, who knows.


http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=40763

So you were suddenly excited about an Obama Presidency on election night but now you don't like the Obama supporters coming here? :confused: What changed?

And btw, I don't know how you could come up with Murray secretly supporting BO... he wrote so many articles on BO's character (or lack thereof) and his narcissitic personality, etc. I would never think that would point to him being a supporter. Am glad you apologized to him for that.

[ILBlue]

It's not the differances of opinions it's the tone.

Some Obama supporters are pushy , aggressive , insulting and rude just like Obama.

We have worked with conservatives here and Independents very well.

[xfiles]

Difference is Obama IS a fraud. Hillary is NOT a liar in the vast majority of instances that are important.

This is not directed at you at all but your comment made me think about something & the example applies equally to myself & my own behavior:

Can you see that when you say "Obama the fraud" a reasonable-minded Obama supporter might feel slighted? (even if he is fraud)

In the same way, when someone calls "Hillary a liar" can you see how I might feel slighted? (even if she did lie about something)

It's no different. Just because I think I am "right" about my opinion/feeling in no way ensures the other person feels any less "right" about their opinion.

Who is to judge who is right and who is wrong? I think I am "right" for supporting Hillary. An Obama supporter thinks he/she is "right" for supporting Obama. Ultimately, who decides who is "right"? Who is the judge? As such, the need to interact in a respectful manner becomes all the more important to prevent total breakdown in communication.

[Artists4Hillary]

It's not the differances of opinions it's the tone.

Some Obama supporters are pushy , aggressive , insulting and rude just like Obama.

We have worked with conservatives here and Independents very well.

Stamp.


I don't understand why alot of you guys want to be so closed off from dissenting opinions. If you guys were confident in your opinions then you wouldn't mind dealing with people who have different trains of thought

We're confident. You have no idea what we went through during the primaries. If the new members would take the time to read some threads before posting, this forum would be a lot better off and we wouldn't have the slamming of the poster above.

[Foggy]

I think monoview environments eventually become very stifling and absolutely foster suppression of expression which clashes with the monoview.
But have you been reading your own forum? It sounds like you are a reasonable person, but there was nothing BUT a monoview here. WV4Hillary is quitting for exactly that reason -- it's not monoview anymore.

That's her complaint: You let in some people with different opinions, and ruined everything.

I've been posting on forums for more than five years, and the only forum I've ever seen that even approached how monoview this forum was was the ALIPAC forum. On my main forum, http://forum.trianglefreeforum.com (http://forum.trianglefreeforum.com/) (centered around the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area of NC), we have folks from all over the political spectrum. We argue and bicker, but at least we get to learn about other people's viewpoints.

If people can't stand to read an opinion that's wildly different than their own, how solid a foundation lies beneath their opinion? Can't they defend and expand on it?

Do you realize you have a thread explicitly comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler right this very evening? And people are offended if anyone suggests that Obama ISN'T Adolf Hitler? That's how bad things got, because all you had was the monoview.

[dalexander06]

Difference is Obama IS a fraud. Hillary is NOT a liar in the vast majority of instances that are important.

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

[dalexander06]

But have you been reading your own forum? It sounds like you are a reasonable person, but there was nothing BUT a monoview here. WV4Hillary is quitting for exactly that reason -- it's not monoview anymore.

That's her complaint: You let in some people with different opinions, and ruined everything.

I've been posting on forums for more than five years, and the only forum I've ever seen that even approached how monoview this forum was was the ALIPAC forum. On my main forum, http://forum.trianglefreeforum.com (http://forum.trianglefreeforum.com/) (centered around the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area of NC, we have folks from all over the political spectrum. We argue and bicker, but at least we get to learn about other people's viewpoints.

If people can't stand to read an opinion that's wildly different than their own, how solid a foundation lies beneath their opinion? Can't they defend and expand on it?

Do you realize you have a thread explicitly comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler right this very evening? And people are offended if anyone suggests that Obama ISN'T Adolf Hitler? That's how bad things got, because all you had was the monoview.

+1

[Silverglade]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

She didn't spend a cent on clothes. The RNC did. It's their property and was sent to charity.

[ZY123]

And hell no Murray didn't secretly support Obama what a ridiculous and unfair statement...and an illustration of the problems around here.

[xfiles]

OK, for Obama supporters this is why most of us will not and cannot support him or engage in any middle ground talking about him:


http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/fashion-shows/

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/vernon/080526

http://www.obamacrimes.com

[dalexander06]

She didn't spend a cent on clothes. The RNC did. It's their property and was sent to charity.

Whether it was Sarah herself or the RNC, she allowed them to waste 150,000 in donations for her own wardrobe. If that money was instead spent on solidifying a ground game then they might have done better in the election. I could think of a million better ways to spend 150k than on a VP candidate's wardrobe, especially when said VP candidate is supposed to be so down with us regular folk and said candidate and her supporters are exclaiming that the Obama's are "elite".

[xfiles]

I literally laughed out loud at your post! What about Obama's millions of dollar temple at the DNC convention and his party at the park the nite of the election? Talk about wasteful spending.

The RNC bought Palin those clothes and she returned them! Get real!


A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

[CGP]

there was nothing BUT a monoview here.

If people can't stand to read an opinion that's wildly different than their own, how solid a foundation lies beneath their opinion? Can't they defend and expand on it?


Yes, you are correct. There was a monoview here. And that is why so many are having a tough time dealing with those who don't share their view. Rather than bashing people over their head with that fact, perhaps a more sensitive and gracious thing to do would be to acknowledge that this forum is attempting to open up to multiple views.

Speaking from personal experience, one of the reasons I developed negative opinions about Obama supporters who interacted online was because I saw them behave in ways so drastically different from the ideals presented by their leader. And perhaps the same could be said about some Hillary supporters. But the "war" starts somwhere....

And, for the record, and as an example, plenty of political websites have a monoview - do you think DU had anything but a monoview during the primaries? No, it was pro-obama 24/7 and anyone who was for Hillary stood little chance of acceptance there. The reverse applied here: pro-hillary 24/7 and anyone who was for Obama was eventually shown the door.

[CGP]

Whether it was Sarah herself or the RNC, she allowed them to waste 150,000 in donations for her own wardrobe. If that money was instead spent on solidifying a ground game then they might have done better in the election. I could think of a million better ways to spend 150k than on a VP candidate's wardrobe, especially when said VP candidate is supposed to be so down with us regular folk and said candidate and her supporters are exclaiming that the Obama's are "elite".

To be fair, and I am not a Palin supporter, given Obama spent upwards of $600 million on his campaign, there really isn't much basis to argue about the allegedly wasteful spending of other candidates. Seriously.

[CGP]

And hell no Murray didn't secretly support Obama what a ridiculous and unfair statement...and an illustration of the problems around here.

Stick it out with me! ;)

The dominance of monoviews gives rise to all kinds of distorted theories about reality.

[Foggy]

There's a police officer on my other forum, a man who catches child molesters for a living. He's one of the most thoughtful people there, and he voted for McCain.

Do you know what his first post was on Weds. morning, after he learned that Obama won?

Congratulations, President-elect Obama. What do you need from me?



Think about that for a while.

[G'aal]

It's not the differances of opinions it's the tone.

Some Obama supporters are pushy , aggressive , insulting and rude just like Obama.

We have worked with conservatives here and Independents very well.

Actually, as one who got railroaded out of here for merely questioning McCain/Palin, I have to respectfully say that the "monoview" mentality completely took over this board, especially during the summer and fall. I am a proud Independent and a former Conservative.

It reminds me of the "Twilight Zone" episode where the lights in the neighborhood keep winking out, and the denizens start suspecting (I cannot remember where they made this leap) that each other was secretly an alien from another planet. In the end, there were aliens, but they were merely turning the lights on and off from a distance and letting the imaginations of the citizen run wild, ultimately destroying the town.

On this board, it was unquestionably an "us versus them" mentality. If you weren't us (and it had to be wholehearted and unwavering), you were them. Period. I wasn't "us" since I hadn't been around long enough to prove myself, and when I made a couple of points about McCain/Palin respectfully, I quickly became "them" and was banned.

I recognize the "safe haven" argument. When Hillary was a candidate, I'm sure this board served a great purpose with a singular focus. But now, the political realm has turned 180 degrees and it would seem to me that the board needs to as well - hence Murray's decision. There's something to be said for singularity of purpose, but only when justified, and typically it doesn't last all that long, relatively speaking. It peters out when the cause does, or when group-think overtakes everything else.

I've said this at my work: for the culture to change, sometimes the people have to change. Hopefully, most of the HCF long-timers stay and welcome diversity, as long as it's respectful, polite, and thoughtfully presented by the new members. In other cases, there may have to be turnover of people to effect change. There will be an equilibrium reached before long.

[xfiles]

We like monoview. What about Obama's lies, cheating, stealing, intimidation, associations, etc. deserves people who are patriotic and don't want a marxist/socialist in the WH attention or credible comments?????

You don't get that we have no common ground with communism and marxism in this country.

We have fought against it for decades and many have given their lives. Now to have one in the WH???

And he very well may not be a natural born citizen. He won't release his vault copy of his birth cert. which Hawaii says exists. Why not? What doesn't he want us to know.

McCain happily relesed HIS!

[dalexander06]

I literally laughed out loud at your post! What about Obama's millions of dollar tempe at the DNC convention and his party at the park the nite of the election? Talk about wasteful spending.

The RNC bought Palin those clothes and she returned them! Get real!

So lets compare...

Obama spends money @ the DNC and the Hyde Park celebration, the former which set the stage for a successful presidential campaign, and the latter which set the stage for the historic victory celebration.

Sarah Palin and the RNC spends money on her clothes. Hrm, not much else to say here. There isn't much justification to this....

Seems to me like the Obama campaign spent their money wisely while Sarah spent her money irresponsibility.

[dalexander06]

To be fair, and I am not a Palin supporter, given Obama spent upwards of $600 million on his campaign, there really isn't much basis to argue about the allegedly wasteful spending of other candidates. Seriously.

Wasteful spending? HE WON. How was that wasteful spending?

[ggreen]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

Check out her income tax forms for the past several years, be sure to pay attention to charitable gifts. Compare those to some other candidates.

Be clear here.....Palin was not running around stores filling up shopping carts. The campaign went out and picked up what it thought she should have, buying some clothes in several sizes and returning many of them. She DID come from a small town.
_

[Lynn2008]

I'm very new posting here but I read this forum for several months.

I was very pleasantly surprised by the opinions of Hillary's supporters. I was amazed at how much common ground I had with them and I asked twice to join a long time before I was allowed.

But common ground only goes so far. While I can find common ground with Hillary's supporters, I don't find it at all with Obama's supporters.

So, I just got here and now Hillary's supporters are leaving. It seems to me that you are going to have an Obama support forum very soon.

[Ikasu]

Actually, as one who got railroaded out of here for merely questioning McCain/Palin, I have to respectfully say that the "monoview" mentality completely took over this board, especially during the summer and fall. I am a proud Independent and a former Conservative.

It reminds me of the "Twilight Zone" episode where the lights in the neighborhood keep winking out, and the denizens start suspecting (I cannot remember where they made this leap) that each other was secretly an alien from another planet. In the end, there were aliens, but they were merely turning the lights on and off from a distance and letting the imaginations of the citizen run wild, ultimately destroying the town.

On this board, it was unquestionably an "us versus them" mentality. If you weren't us (and it had to be wholehearted and unwavering), you were them. Period. I wasn't "us" since I hadn't been around long enough to prove myself, and when I made a couple of points about McCain/Palin respectfully, I quickly became "them" and was banned.

I recognize the "safe haven" argument. When Hillary was a candidate, I'm sure this board served a great purpose with a singular focus. But now, the political realm has turned 180 degrees and it would seem to me that the board needs to as well - hence Murray's decision. There's something to be said for singularity of purpose, but only when justified, and typically it doesn't last all that long, relatively speaking. It peters out when the cause does, or when group-think overtakes everything else.

I've said this at my work: for the culture to change, sometimes the people have to change. Hopefully, most of the HCF long-timers stay and welcome diversity, as long as it's respectful, polite, and thoughtfully presented by the new members. In other cases, there may have to be turnover of people to effect change. There will be an equilibrium reached before long.

The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street. They didn't think they were aliens, just everyone was responsible for the power outages.

[Eddie3dfx]

There's a police officer on my other forum, a man who catches child molesters for a living. He's one of the most thoughtful people there, and he voted for McCain.

Do you know what his first post was on Weds. morning, after he learned that Obama won?





Think about that for a while.


What the f*ck does this have to do with illegals getting free healthcare, free drivers licenses, an increase in capital gains tax, more social welfare programs, more f*cking socialist-government bailouts, more caps on emissions causing massive energy inflation, increasing the deficit, printing money we don't have, government funded civilian brigades, a liberal policy on terrorism, supporting infanticide, hyperpartisan hacks, and a whole list of platitudes and talking points that don't add up to anything.
Hell no I don't support his agenda.

[dalexander06]

Be clear here.....Palin was not running around stores filling up shopping carts. The campaign went out and picked up what it thought she should have, buying some clothes in several sizes and returning many of them. She DID come from a small town.
_

I'm sorry but racking up a 150k budget on wardrobe sounds alot like a shopping cart filling shopping spree to me. I'm not questioning her small town roots, I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of calling the Obama's "elitist" when you're going going spending 150k at the mall. Most people probably won't spend 150k on clothes in their lifetime. She did it in a matter of weeks.

[dalexander06]

What the f*ck does this have to do with illegals getting free healthcare, free drivers licenses, an increase in capital gains tax, more social welfare programs, more f*cking socialist-government bailouts, more caps on emissions causing massive energy inflation, increasing the deficit, printing money we don't have, government funded civilian brigades, a liberal policy on terrorism, supporting infanticide, hyperpartisan hacks, and a whole list of platitudes and talking points that don't add up to anything.
Hell no I don't support his agenda.

OH NOES OBAMA IS GONNA BRING BACK THE WELFARE!!! HE'S A COMMUNIST

:rolleyes:

People didn't buy these extreme exaggerations during the campaign and no one's buying them now.

[ZY123]

Actually, as one who got railroaded out of here for merely questioning McCain/Palin, I have to respectfully say that the "monoview" mentality completely took over this board, especially during the summer and fall. I am a proud Independent and a former Conservative.

It reminds me of the "Twilight Zone" episode where the lights in the neighborhood keep winking out, and the denizens start suspecting (I cannot remember where they made this leap) that each other was secretly an alien from another planet. In the end, there were aliens, but they were merely turning the lights on and off from a distance and letting the imaginations of the citizen run wild, ultimately destroying the town.

On this board, it was unquestionably an "us versus them" mentality. If you weren't us (and it had to be wholehearted and unwavering), you were them. Period. I wasn't "us" since I hadn't been around long enough to prove myself, and when I made a couple of points about McCain/Palin respectfully, I quickly became "them" and was banned.

I recognize the "safe haven" argument. When Hillary was a candidate, I'm sure this board served a great purpose with a singular focus. But now, the political realm has turned 180 degrees and it would seem to me that the board needs to as well - hence Murray's decision. There's something to be said for singularity of purpose, but only when justified, and typically it doesn't last all that long, relatively speaking. It peters out when the cause does, or when group-think overtakes everything else.

I've said this at my work: for the culture to change, sometimes the people have to change. Hopefully, most of the HCF long-timers stay and welcome diversity, as long as it's respectful, polite, and thoughtfully presented by the new members. In other cases, there may have to be turnover of people to effect change. There will be an equilibrium reached before long.

And that sums up what it was like around here perfectly. I know several people banned who were No Obama and just didn't praise McCain enough for the group liking.

[Silverglade]

Sarah never spent money in the campaign. And she never "went shopping". But I know I am talkin to a wall at this point since you are so indoctrinated.

[CGP]

Wasteful spending? HE WON. How was that wasteful spending?

Because he demonstrated that he could not win by staying within a reasonable budget by accepting public financing: $84 million wasn't enough, he needed hundreds of millions. He doubted his ability to win by staying within the limits, by staying with the budget. He had to have more, more than anyone in history (even ignoring inflation & such matters).

His budget was extraordinarily large and extravagent. Is this an example of how he will govern? Splurge money left, right and center? And this time he won't be spending money donated to him, his government will be spending TAX money. I hope he doesn't adopt the same theory of "more money = better outcome", because level of investment often does NOT equaly level of gain from that investment. In a time of economic hardship what is required is economic restraint and the US will be ushering in a president who clearly has a penchant for splurging huge sums of money.

[Eddie3dfx]

OH NOES OBAMA IS GONNA BRING BACK THE WELFARE!!! HE'S A COMMUNIST

:rolleyes:

People didn't buy these extreme exaggerations during the campaign and no one's buying them now.

Obama was fully against the welfare reform that Clinton implemented. He said he was dead wrong, because it worked.
What do you think a tax credit is? It's free money given to us by the government.
Last I checked, the government is not in the business of paying back dividends. Call it whatever you want, but tax credit is just euphemism for additional welfare.
I don't know why you bring the communist label in here. You clearly don't know what welfare is and the role government plays in our life. Might as well call me a racist and a hate monger while your at it.
It works well to deflect a lack of knowledge.

[Proud Soldier]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

Can we talk about Obama's campaign wardrobe for a few minutes?

How much was spent on his clothes?

Or do we only talk "fashion" concerning the FEMALE candidate :rolleyes:

The Obama side lost me the second they showed they were intolerant, sexist
hypocrites

[ZY123]

And that sums up what it was like around here perfectly. I know several people banned who were No Obama and just didn't praise McCain enough for the group liking.

In fact...I think RiseHillaryRise, who ORGANIZED the Denver march was CHASED out of here for not being pro-McCain/Palin enough. And she was DEFINITELY No Obama.

[CGP]

Actually, as one who got railroaded out of here for merely questioning McCain/Palin, I have to respectfully say that the "monoview" mentality completely took over this board, especially during the summer and fall. I am a proud Independent and a former Conservative.

It reminds me of the "Twilight Zone" episode where the lights in the neighborhood keep winking out, and the denizens start suspecting (I cannot remember where they made this leap) that each other was secretly an alien from another planet. In the end, there were aliens, but they were merely turning the lights on and off from a distance and letting the imaginations of the citizen run wild, ultimately destroying the town.

On this board, it was unquestionably an "us versus them" mentality. If you weren't us (and it had to be wholehearted and unwavering), you were them. Period. I wasn't "us" since I hadn't been around long enough to prove myself, and when I made a couple of points about McCain/Palin respectfully, I quickly became "them" and was banned.

I recognize the "safe haven" argument. When Hillary was a candidate, I'm sure this board served a great purpose with a singular focus. But now, the political realm has turned 180 degrees and it would seem to me that the board needs to as well - hence Murray's decision. There's something to be said for singularity of purpose, but only when justified, and typically it doesn't last all that long, relatively speaking. It peters out when the cause does, or when group-think overtakes everything else.

I've said this at my work: for the culture to change, sometimes the people have to change. Hopefully, most of the HCF long-timers stay and welcome diversity, as long as it's respectful, polite, and thoughtfully presented by the new members. In other cases, there may have to be turnover of people to effect change. There will be an equilibrium reached before long.

You said it. This is an accurate & insightful account.

[dalexander06]

Sarah never spent money in the campaign. And she never "went shopping". But I know I am talkin to a wall at this point since you are so indoctrinated.

I'm the one that's idoctrinated? You should take a look in the mirror. Sarah Palin allowed and reportedly encouraged the excessive purchases of clothes. She wore those clothes. Do you think Hillary would have allowed the DNC to spend 150k on her wardrobe when that money could have been spent more wisely in other areas? Of course she wouldn't have...

And if that's gonna be your argument, that she never actually did the shopping or spending...Obama never did the terrorist acts that Bill Ayers committed, and he never said the words that Rev Wright said. But that didn't stop you from bashing him and calling him a terrorist now did it? Funny how things change...

[G'aal]

The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street. They didn't think they were aliens, just everyone was responsible for the power outages.

You're right. Thank you for the clarification, and in recalling the name of the episode.

That was this board. "Obots" were perceived to be everywhere, Obama = Hitler and/or any other negative characterization out there, and anyone who even looked sideways instead of marching lockstep with the common view was railroaded out.

The truth is that there were some trolls around (not nearly as many as the long-timers perceived), Obama has serious flaws and questions, and not everyone truly felt the way the board forced the culture to be. Despite all this, the portions of truth were (and still are) magnified 1,000 times over. Anything Obama said and/or did was evil/wrong/spiteful/cynical/hypocritical. When other opposing candidates did the same thing, their behavior was rationalized away.

This was Maple Street, near the end of the episode when things were starting to implode. Murray is rebooting at the right time before the implosion completed itself.

[Ikasu]

I'm sorry but racking up a 150k budget on wardrobe sounds alot like a shopping cart filling shopping spree to me. I'm not questioning her small town roots, I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of calling the Obama's "elitist" when you're going going spending 150k at the mall. Most people probably won't spend 150k on clothes in their lifetime. She did it in a matter of weeks.

She didn't. The RNC did. Do you not see the distinction? Women are held to a different standard than men. They have to have to look good and not wear the same thing. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

Your golden boy spent millions of dollars on a Greek temple, you really want to talk about spending?

[dalexander06]

Can we talk about Obama's campaign wardrobe for a few minutes?

How much was spent on his clothes?

Or do we only talk "fashion" concerning the FEMALE candidate :rolleyes:

The Obama side lost me the second they showed they were intolerant, sexist
hypocrites

I think this says alot about Obama's wardrobe:

http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0810/images/callie/19.jpg


Senator Obama was doing press interviews by telephone in a holding room between events. Sometime later as he was getting ready to begin his event, he asked me if I was photographing his shoes. When I said yes, he told me that he had already had them resoled once since he entered the race a year earlier. Providence, R.I., 3/1/2008.

[Silverglade]

I'm the one that's idoctrinated? You should take a look in the mirror. Sarah Palin allowed and reportedly encouraged the excessive purchases of clothes. She wore those clothes. Do you think Hillary would have allowed the DNC to spend 150k on her wardrobe when that money could have been spent more wisely in other areas? Of course she wouldn't have...

And if that's gonna be your argument, that she never actually did the shopping or spending...Obama never did the terrorist acts that Bill Ayers committed, and he never said the words that Rev Wright said. But that didn't stop you from bashing him and calling him a terrorist now did it? Funny how things change...

Another easy one. :D

Sarah never "allowed" and never "reportedly encouraged" a thing. But keep wishing its true. It's all you've got to hope for.

"I" never claimed a single thing about Rev Wright or Ayers. But again you also wish that was the case. You need some new material.

[carmaken]

It has always seemed that a few extreme Obama supporters could turn the tone nasty. Now, I talked to lots of Obama voters who were reasonable and not pushy. But why is it that we humans always let the extreme (especially negative ones) totally influence our associations.

As long as I can, I will stay a member. I am proud to have supported Hillary (and not Obama), and to have been a member on here. He is now our President. I didn't like George W. either, but had to tolerate 8 years of him.

But, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and people have the right to do this.

I hope I can stay on here because I cannot turn my back on the place I came to when I was realizing the dream would not come true for Hillary. New people please TRY and be respectful of the opinions of all of us.

[Foggy]

... do you think DU had anything but a monoview during the primaries?
I've never seen DU.

... one of the reasons I developed negative opinions about Obama supporters who interacted online was because I saw them behave in ways so drastically different from the ideals presented by their leader.Well, I understand that. Obama talks about putting aside partisanship, is that what you mean? But people with wildly different viewpoints are going to be partisans, and they're going to argue vociferously, whether they support Obama or not.

I'm glad you opened up to different viewpoints. I'm very used to that.

That "Obama = Hitler" thread, that's just plain spooky. Everybody's so excited, to compare the new president of the United States to Adolf Hitler! We'll be a military dictatorship by next spring! Yes, I made some cutting remarks on it. Did they expect me to waste my precious time crafting a rational argument as to why there might be just one or two little tiny differences between Obama and Adolf Hitler? I treated it as a joke, and what did I get? "You can't point to any differences between the two."

[dalexander06]

She didn't. The RNC did. Do you not see the distinction? Women are held to a different standard than men. They have to have to look good and not wear the same thing. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

No, I'm sorry, I don't see the distinction. Hillary never had a 150k shopping bill that's for sure. She knew that money could be more wisely spent. It's the difference between a responsible candidate and an irresponsible one.

[CGP]

Murray is rebooting at the right time before the implosion completed itself.

Maybe just in time??!! :confused:

[Ikasu]

You're right. Thank you for the clarification, and in recalling the name of the episode.

That was this board. "Obots" were perceived to be everywhere, Obama = Hitler and/or any other negative characterization out there, and anyone who even looked sideways instead of marching lockstep with the common view was railroaded out.

The truth is that there were some trolls around (not nearly as many as the long-timers perceived), Obama has serious flaws and questions, and not everyone truly felt the way the board forced the culture to be. Despite all this, the portions of truth were (and still are) magnified 1,000 times over. Anything Obama said and/or did was evil/wrong/spiteful/cynical/hypocritical. When other opposing candidates did the same thing, their behavior was rationalized away.

This was Maple Street, near the end of the episode when things were starting to implode. Murray is rebooting at the right time before the implosion completed itself.

No problem for the clarification, but I disagree with your opinion. I've been here since May and lurked since March and there was no crazy hysteria going on here. There was a monotheme going on, but that's normal when the majority of active members have a common goal. You should also know that HCF has a diversified community with regards to religion, sexual orientation, politics, etc. Just because we had common goals doesn't mean there was an ongoing cyber riot.

[dalexander06]

Another easy one. :D

Sarah never "allowed" and never "reportedly encouraged" a thing. But keep wishing its true. It's all you've got to hope for.

"I" never claimed a single thing about Rev Wright or Ayers. But again you also wish that was the case. You need some new material.

Did she not wear the clothes? Did she not keep the expensive stylist around? Why didn't she refuse the clothes? Why didn't she refuse to keep using the expensive stylist? Hillary never needed an expensive wardrobe or a 20k a week stylist...

[xfiles]

Stamp.

This is what is wrong with most Obama supporters. They can't get it into their heads that SHE didn't spend HER money unwisely. SHE didn't spend HER money at all. (as said on this thread by an Obama supporter).

The RNC spent it.

So when you are trying to debate a false premise and a false candidate, it IS like bumping your head against a wall!

http://www.freepowerboards.com/sarahpalin/images/logos/sarahpalin.smilie.banghead.gif



Sarah never spent money in the campaign. And she never "went shopping". But I know I am talkin to a wall at this point since you are so indoctrinated.

[lin_h]

I'm sorry but racking up a 150k budget on wardrobe sounds alot like a shopping cart filling shopping spree to me. I'm not questioning her small town roots, I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of calling the Obama's "elitist" when you're going going spending 150k at the mall. Most people probably won't spend 150k on clothes in their lifetime. She did it in a matter of weeks.

How much do you think Michelle Obama spent on her clothing, jewelry, shoes, stylists, makeup and hair dressers?

Well, just like everything Obama, we don't know because OPRAH apparently paid for it all and I can tell you it was all well over $150,000.00 -- in fact I'll bet $150,000.000 was spent on shoes alone.

And truthfully, some horrible choices -- that red and black dress - fugly and I'll bet it cost plenty. They'll have a hard time reselling that.

So stop whining about Palin -- they weren't and aren't her clothes. I'm sure you can bid on them on ebay.

[ZY123]

No problem for the clarification, but I disagree with your opinion. I've been here since May and lurked since March and there was no crazy hysteria going on here. There was a monotheme going on, but that's normal when the majority of active members have a common goal. You should also know that HCF has a diversified community with regards to religion, sexual orientation, politics, etc. Just because we had common goals doesn't mean there was an ongoing cyber riot.

It was not a riot but a calculated and precise movement to get rid of anyone not pro-McCain/Palin enough (it didn't matter how anti-Obama the person was). People were labeled trolls for saying anything not positive about Palin...and I mean any little thing. Then they were banned....some are back now which is nice.

[dalexander06]

How much do you think Michelle Obama spent on her clothing, jewelry, shoes, stylists, makeup and hair dressers?

Well, just like everything Obama, we don't know because OPRAH apparently paid for it all and I can tell you it was all well over $150,000.00 -- in fact I'll bet $150,000.000 was spent on shoes alone.

And truthfully, some horrible choices -- that red and black dress - fugly and I'll bet it cost plenty. They'll have a hard time reselling that.

So stop whining about Palin -- they weren't and aren't her clothes. I'm sure you can bid on them on ebay.

Oprah can spend her money how she chooses. And there has been NO reports that Michelle's wardrobe is excessively expensive. Michelle has a very modest wardrobe, but I digress.

Sarah Palin and the RNC had money spent from DONATIONS that were supposed to go to the betterment of the campaign, not to make sure Sarah looks like a Cover Girl model at a stump speech.

[Ikasu]

Did she not wear the clothes? Did she not keep the expensive stylist around? Why didn't she refuse the clothes? Why didn't she refuse to keep using the expensive stylist? Hillary never needed an expensive wardrobe or a 20k a week stylist...

Hillary had her own style and has been involved in national politics since 1992. She had plenty of stuff already. Palin was an unknown politician and didn't have the dress for a presidential campaign. She needed a lot of new stuff fast. The clothes were given to charity, she didn't keep any. Why is this even an issue?

[Eddie3dfx]

Foggy;521802]I've never seen DU.

Well, I understand that. Obama talks about putting aside partisanship, is that what you mean? But people with wildly different viewpoints are going to be partisans, and they're going to argue vociferously, whether they support Obama or not.

First off, Obama is a hyperpartisan.
He's never bucked his party or really worked across the aisle. When he did, it was on non-controversial issues like nuclear waste and campaign reform.
God knows Republicans and conservatives were really against securing nuclear weapons and waste.

Bill Clinton had a record of bi-partisanship, whether it be the welfare reform, cutting capital gains taxes, or letting the states decide the speed limits. It is purely ignorant to compare Obama to Clinton. Clinton's record on monetary policies and on the war was far more conservative than 3/4 of the dems in the party today.
He would be considered center right if you take todays democrats and politicians.
Obama is the furthest left politician in the senate. If you think he can morph himself into something he's not, think again.

[Ikasu]

Oprah can spend her money how she chooses. And there has been NO reports that Michelle's wardrobe is excessively expensive. Michelle has a very modest wardrobe, but I digress.

Sarah Palin and the RNC had money spent from DONATIONS that were supposed to go to the betterment of the campaign, not to make sure Sarah looks like a Cover Girl model at a stump speech.

Maybe Michelle should have spent more, she looked awful in some of those dresses.

[Christines]

When you have so many people that have extreme and strong opposing views they most likely will never agree.

The only thing you can hope for is respectful disagreement. If you don't have that there is nothing but chaos.

[Foggy]

What the f*ck does this have to do with illegals getting free healthcare, free drivers licenses, an increase in capital gains tax, more social welfare programs, more f*cking socialist-government bailouts, more caps on emissions causing massive energy inflation, increasing the deficit, printing money we don't have, government funded civilian brigades, a liberal policy on terrorism, supporting infanticide, hyperpartisan hacks, and a whole list of platitudes and talking points that don't add up to anything.
Hell no I don't support his agenda.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/emoticons/rotflmao.gif

[CGP]

It has always seemed that a few extreme Obama supporters could turn the tone nasty. Now, I talked to lots of Obama voters who were reasonable and not pushy. But why is it that we humans always let the extreme (especially negative ones) totally influence our associations.

As long as I can, I will stay a member. I am proud to have supported Hillary (and not Obama), and to have been a member on here. He is now our President. I didn't like George W. either, but had to tolerate 8 years of him.

But, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, and people have the right to do this.

I hope I can stay on here because I cannot turn my back on the place I came to when I was realizing the dream would not come true for Hillary. New people please TRY and be respectful of the opinions of all of us.

Noted. Stick it out - it will be interesting if nothing else!

[dalexander06]

Hillary had her own style and has been involved in national politics since 1992. She had plenty of stuff already. Palin was an unknown politician and didn't have the dress for a presidential campaign. She needed a lot of new stuff fast. The clothes were given to charity, she didn't keep any. Why is this even an issue?

Its an issue because Sarah Palin is supposed to be this small town hero who is against the evil "elitism" that Barack Obama is supposed to represent. The hypocrisy that this represents is simply hilarious.

[dalexander06]

Maybe Michelle should have spent more, she looked awful in some of those dresses.

That's your opinion and I respectfully disagree.

[xfiles]

No reasoning with errouneous and INcredible claims.

Arguing/debating with this crazy stuff is futile!

[michu]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

This post shows why we don't wish to deal with Obamaniacs. They are clueless. They didn't bother to do any research or they wouldn't have voted for the fraud in the first place. Continually having to school them on the truth isn't exactly my idea of home.

[xfiles]

Oh there are some differences between Hitler and Obama.

One striking difference is Hitler was German and Obama is Kenyan.

Also, Hitler gained power legally, by stealth but legally.

Obama cheated (you know caucus fraud, ACORN, etc.)

I've never seen DU.

Well, I understand that. Obama talks about putting aside partisanship, is that what you mean? But people with wildly different viewpoints are going to be partisans, and they're going to argue vociferously, whether they support Obama or not.

I'm glad you opened up to different viewpoints. I'm very used to that.

That "Obama = Hitler" thread, that's just plain spooky. Everybody's so excited, to compare the new president of the United States to Adolf Hitler! We'll be a military dictatorship by next spring! Yes, I made some cutting remarks on it. Did they expect me to waste my precious time crafting a rational argument as to why there might be just one or two little tiny differences between Obama and Adolf Hitler? I treated it as a joke, and what did I get? "You can't point to any differences between the two."

[xfiles]

STAMP!

www.govpalin.com
Obot free
anti-obama
pro-Palin/Hillary

This post shows why we don't wish to deal with Obamaniacs. They are clueless. They didn't bother to do any research or they wouldn't have voted for the fraud in the first place. Continually having to school them on the truth isn't exactly my idea of home.

[carmaken]

We may have to occasionally have the need to remind others and ourselves of the reasons for being here. I am of the belief that some of us need to stay behind and "hold things up". I have never gone on websites and "lurked". And I don't intend to start hiding here either!

And, the election is over. It is a new climate. Hillary will still be in the Senate fighting for people. I am happy about this. I anticipate she will continue to build on the power, stature and reputation she has. She will always be a very powerful force. I hope we can stand for many of the things she represents.

I will never forget the rallies I went to and supported on her behalf, and no one can take this away from me or make me change my mind.

[Dendy]

Good luck Wv4Hilary!
You are a good guy and I’ll always remember your input on our PUMA bracelets!
Take care!

[NeverBackDownEver]

I came in here tonight to register because I had been reading this forum for a long time and was glad to see it was now open. But, after reading the Obama people in here already slamming Palin about her clothes. Well, I went through that crap ever since the primaries and I am not gonna go through it again.

Why do Obama people always come in and try to take over things. Because they learned it from Obama who learned it from Alinsky Thugs in Chicago.

So, hello and goodbye.

[ZY123]

Stick it out with me! ;)

The dominance of monoviews gives rise to all kinds of distorted theories about reality.


I'm stickin' it out for a while! They can't drive me away easily. ;)

[ScottVA]

LOL look out the bitch is back :-) I'd sooner run over some people then look at them

[short shrink]

Its an issue because Sarah Palin is supposed to be this small town hero who is against the evil "elitism" that Barack Obama is supposed to represent. The hypocrisy that this represents is simply hilarious.

There was no "hypocracy." Kate Snow from ABC wrote an article clarifying this, among other things, a few days ago. You should read it.

[ZY123]

LOL look out the bitch is back :-)

bwa hahaha....I assume this is about me...hahaha. :p

[ggreen]

I'm sorry but racking up a 150k budget on wardrobe sounds alot like a shopping cart filling shopping spree to me. I'm not questioning her small town roots, I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of calling the Obama's "elitist" when you're going going spending 150k at the mall. Most people probably won't spend 150k on clothes in their lifetime. She did it in a matter of weeks.

DID YOU HEAR ME? SHE DID NOT BUY THE CLOTHES HERSELF!!!

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=6196407&page=1

Regarding the $150,000 worth of clothing, Stapleton claimed it was the campaign that said, "This is what you need as a VP candidate, and it was the campaign and/or the RNC [Republican National Committee] -- but it wasn't the governor -- saying this is what she needs."
Stapleton added that a New York stylist was told to go and make Palin look presidential, that Palin was simply presented with her wardrobe and staff and told, "Here's your people, here are your clothes."

The only items Palin remembers requesting from staff are toothpaste and coats for cold weather, Stapleton said.

Palin even saw a price tag of $3,500 on one suit jacket and said she didn't want to wear it, Stapleton said -- but she was told to wear it anyway.

The person who paid for the clothing in the end was a wealthy GOP donor, Stapleton said.

The campaign also bought clothing for the Palin children so they, too, would look nice, Stapleton added.

When somebody realized the Palins didn't have any suitcases to bring the new clothes on the campaign trail, Stapleton said Palin e-mailed her husband Todd to bring her suitcases with him. But instead, the campaign bought luggage.

Were the staffers stupid for doing this? Maybe. Were they idiots for letting it leak? Definitely. Do we have any idea what the male candidates spent on clothing? No. Will we ever hear about the cost of their wardrobes? No.

BTW: How much were the Greek columns?
_

[MrSandMan]

Stamp.

This is what is wrong with most Obama supporters. They can't get it into their heads that SHE didn't spend HER money unwisely. SHE didn't spend HER money at all. (as said on this thread by an Obama supporter).

The RNC spent it.

So when you are trying to debate a false premise and a false candidate, it IS like bumping your head against a wall!

http://www.freepowerboards.com/sarahpalin/images/logos/sarahpalin.smilie.banghead.gif

She doesn't spend HER money unwisely, she spends TAX PAYERS money unwisely. See: Palin runs town into legal debt (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905483.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) - But her son, who is a star player, got his hockey rink.

Ms. Palin marched ahead, making the public case for a sales-tax increase and $14.7 million bond issue to pay for the sports center, which was to feature a running track, basketball courts and a hockey rink. At the time, the city's annual budget was about $20 million. In a March 2002 referendum, residents approved the mayor's plan by a 20-vote margin, 306 to 286. The city cleared roads, installed utilities and made preparations to build.

OUCH!

[freespirit]

I'm not here to antagoinze people who don't support Obama, just giving you a fair pov from one of his supporters.

I noticed that by monitoring this website, forums used to ONLY be everything Hillary, anti-Obama, then Everything McCain anti-Obama.

It sucks were you can't have to different view points, I hate having EVERYONE agree with me. If you think Obama is a racist muslim whatever whatever that's fine that's your opinion but don't back down when one rebuttals your claim. IT helps broaden your mind.

Just want to have the Hillary/McCain loyalist look at it from my persepctive and vice versa, nothing more nothing less.

How can you say it "sucks when you can't have different view points"? Did you argue that on the many Pro -Obama sites. You guys monopolized cyber-space, insulting and threatening anyone who supported Hill or McCain. I think it's a little late for anyone who supported Obama to be calling for open mindedness and acceptance of differing opinions. Late and hypocritical.

[Eddie3dfx]

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/emoticons/rotflmao.gif

Yeah, I wouldn't respond either if I were you. You should stick to emoticons. It would suit you better over empty platitudes and lib-logic.

[dalexander06]

She doesn't spend HER money unwisely, she spends TAX PAYERS money unwisely. See: Palin runs town into legal debt (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905483.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) - But her son, who is a star player, got his hockey rink.



OUCH!

+1

lol they're not going to want to read this one...

[CountryFirst]

Whether it was Sarah herself or the RNC, she allowed them to waste 150,000 in donations for her own wardrobe. If that money was instead spent on solidifying a ground game then they might have done better in the election. I could think of a million better ways to spend 150k than on a VP candidate's wardrobe, especially when said VP candidate is supposed to be so down with us regular folk and said candidate and her supporters are exclaiming that the Obama's are "elite".

What used to be so attractive about this site was the spirit of party disunity. Ha! I say this as a rogue republican. What's not so attractive now is the sickening defense of unethical party loyalists. This site defended Hillary and saw through the DNC's action. This site also defended Palin and saw through the RNC hacks.

Get this through your head: Sarah Palin is not the RNC. The RNC is not Sarah Palin. And if you bothered to read anything other than the Daily Kos, you would know that Sarah REFUSED to wear clothing that was too expensive. She wasn't a diva, as falsely reported. Anytime Sarah tried to do something on her own, she was considered "rogue" ... if she went along, she was a "tool." So which is it Sarah haters? Is she a tool or a diva? Get your Palin put downs consistent, ok????

The spirit of PUMA has died here ...

[ScottVA]

bwa hahaha....I assume this is about me...hahaha. :p

NO SISTER I was talking about myself :-)

[ScottVA]

What used to be so attractive about this site was the spirit of party disunity. Ha! I say this as a rogue republican. What's not so attractive now is the sickening defense of unethical party loyalists. This site defended Hillary and saw through the DNC's action. This site also defended Palin and saw through the RNC hacks.

Get this through your head: Sarah Palin is not the RNC. The RNC is not Sarah Palin. And if you bothered to read anything other than the Daily Kos, you would know that Sarah REFUSED to wear clothing that was too expensive. She wasn't a diva, as falsely reported. Anytime Sarah tried to do something on her own, she was considered "rogue" ... if she went along, she was a "tool." So which is it Sarah haters? Is she a tool or a diva? Get your Palin put downs consistent, ok????

The spirit of PUMA has died here ...

No it didn't die I think the people that are left here are more determined then ever........lets stick together and show people why we were known as PUMAS! LOL

[Eddie3dfx]

What used to be so attractive about this site was the spirit of party disunity. Ha! I say this as a rogue republican. What's not so attractive now is the sickening defense of unethical party loyalists. This site defended Hillary and saw through the DNC's action. This site also defended Palin and saw through the RNC hacks.

Get this through your head: Sarah Palin is not the RNC. The RNC is not Sarah Palin. And if you bothered to read anything other than the Daily Kos, you would know that Sarah REFUSED to wear clothing that was too expensive. She wasn't a diva, as falsely reported. Anytime Sarah tried to do something on her own, she was considered "rogue" ... if she went along, she was a "tool." So which is it Sarah haters? Is she a tool or a diva? Get your Palin put downs consistent, ok????

The spirit of PUMA has died here ...

I don't think it died, I think we have visitors

http://www.caveyourtrolls.com/img3.jpg

[freespirit]

I don't understand why alot of you guys want to be so closed off from dissenting opinions. If you guys were confident in your opinions then you wouldn't mind dealing with people who have different trains of thought. Not all Obama supporters want to "troll" and gloat in victory. I myself have come in hopes of engaging positive debate (same reason why I'm a member of the hannity forums). Things get boring when EVERYONE has the same ideals and viewpoints.

Is debate what we want? There are plenty of other places to debate. I thought Common Ground meant that we had similar views and goals. And, I resent the statement that we lacked confidence in our opinions. I know damn well that Obama cheated is way through the primaries and the GE - an opinion (and fact) I'm confident in. I know Hillary Clinton was twice the person Obama will ever be (no confidence problem, there). And there's no doubt in my mind that John McCain, a POW and statesman cares more about this country than BO and his pals, including god damn America Wright. Again, no confidence problem.

[ZY123]

NO SISTER I was talking about myself :-)

LMAO...applies to me as well! hehe. :p

[Folamix]

Maybe the way to do it is to allow a managable and defined number in at one time, all mods on deck - weed thenm out, let the dust settle, then add again.

That was my thought, only allow a few in at a time. If they are disruptive, get rid of them. The problem is that some folks are just presenting a different point of view and others are taking it as personal.

[CountryFirst]

Is debate what we want? There are plenty of other places to debate. I thought Common Ground meant that we had similar views and goals. And, I resent the statement that we lacked confidence in our opinions. I know damn well that Obama cheated is way through the primaries and the GE - an opinion (and fact) I'm confident in. I know Hillary Clinton was twice the person Obama will ever be (no confidence problem, there). And there's no doubt in my mind that John McCain, a POW and statesman cares more about this country than BO and his pals, including god damn America Wright. Again, no confidence problem.


It's impossible to find Common Ground with what we abhor.

[SugnSpicesmom]

I didn't even read all of the this thread but WV4Hillary, I don't blame you for bowing out. Plenty have and I expect more will.

With that said, let me say to the moron who said this:

Do you think Hillary would have allowed the DNC to spend 150k on her wardrobe when that money could have been spent more wisely in other areas? Of course she wouldn't have...

You obviously know NOTHING about Hillary because she spent plenty of money on stylists throughout her campaign and in the beginning was flying around alone in a private jet while her staff flew on another plane. Talk about putting money where she shouldn't have. Sorry - no offense to my fellow Hillary supporters or to Hillary herself. Just making a point to the jerkwad poster.

So moron, unless you know what the f**k you're talking about, you probably should shut up when it comes to talking about Hillary Clinton.

Palin and the wardrobe? I personally could give a rat's ass if they spent double that on her wardrobe. I wish they would let her keep the clothes, personally. For all the shit you asshats, and that includes your precious messiah Obama, piled on top of her she deserved something.

You come here and want to drag Palin in the mud? You are just as bad as the asswipe you support. That guy ran the dirtiest campaign in political history thanks to his dickwad campaign manager and Chicago thug Axelrod and you want to talk about Palin's clothes? You f**king moron!!! I can't wait until Obama shows you what he really is. You'll be begging Palin to step in and save your sorry ass.

[Eddie3dfx]

It's impossible to find Common Ground with what we abhor.

It's impossible to find common ground with platitudes and copy-paste jobs.
Instead of debating, we will be responding to every post from liberal sites that offer me talking points to beat mean republicans in discussions.

Well Copy this and paste.. booyahh See I'm so smart. Obama has officially filled me in on what is hip and cool ;)

[NSTYLE77]

Oprah can spend her money how she chooses. And there has been NO reports that Michelle's wardrobe is excessively expensive. Michelle has a very modest wardrobe, but I digress.

Sarah Palin and the RNC had money spent from DONATIONS that were supposed to go to the betterment of the campaign, not to make sure Sarah looks like a Cover Girl model at a stump speech.

Whatever, she looked good! I am surprised they only spent $150,000. She looked like a million bucks! :D:)

[ScottVA]

It's impossible to find common ground with platitudes and copy-paste jobs.
Instead of debating, we will be responding to every post from liberal sites that offer me talking points to beat mean republicans in discussions.

Well Copy this and paste.. booyahh See I'm so smart. Obama has officially filled me in on what is hip and cool ;)

well if Michelle (aka Aunt Esther) is getting her hip and cool advice from Nobama.......she should consult a stylist after seeing that dress she had on election night........ my mother was absolutely floored with such trashy outfit from someone that intends on being a First Lady.... I love what Prince Frederick said about her too........I almost wet my paints but it was true!

[SugnSpicesmom]

Whatever, she looked good! I am surprised they only spent $150,000. She looked like a million bucks!

And believe me this poster KNOWS what she's talking about. I met her when she so graciously came to help us here in NV and SHE looks like a million bucks! She could give Palin a run for her money in the looks department any day!

[freespirit]

It's impossible to find Common Ground with what we abhor.

If by that you mean that we PUMAs abhor the view that Obama is legitimate, honest, qualified, competent, and that we question the intelligence and patriotism of those who supported him - you are absolutely right.

[AlexG]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

OK, the $150,000 wardrobe thing is really silly thing that the pundits reported to get higher rating. It has little to do with what they propose to solve our country problems. This is just the other guy was trying to talk about not voting Hillary because of the "sniper fire" story. What they did prior campaigning is a lot more important proof on how they would carry on in their future plan. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! It is frustrating to hear this silly things.

[ggreen]

But her son, who is a star player, got his hockey rink.

Yeah, right. There are no other hockey players in Alaska.

Every township, village, and city in this area has forced projects down it's citizens' throats. Sometimes it is better in the long run, but it's never easy to take. We've had a new minor league stadium and now a minor league ice arena, a new convention center, the reopening of a 2nd rate science museum that the taxpayers voted down three times, the list never ends. All of these have been built in the hope of revitalizing downtown. It's still decaying and only sees traffic on game nights. The city and county officials are all Dems and have been in power for decades.
_

[freespirit]

WVforHill, I'll admit that I was a little surprised with your post about being kinda excited about Obama. However, I didn't read all the posts - I commented that I couldn't agree, and then logged off. Possibly, you qualified that statement. Regardless, just wanted to say thank you for your insight during the primaries and the election. Good luck.

[ScottVA]

OK, the $150,000 wardrobe thing is really silly thing that the pundits reported to get higher rating. It has little to do with what they propose to solve our country problems. This is just the other guy was trying to talk about not voting Hillary because of the "sniper fire" story. What they did prior campaigning is a lot more important proof on how they would carry on in their future plan. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! It is frustrating to hear this silly things.

yeah and funny they focus on such trival shit while NoBama was taking cajillions in foreign campaign money ILLEGALLY everyone just looks the other way..... I mean he was busted several times and had to give some back but just think of all that money that he wasn't busted on..... there is no way on God's green Earth that all of his campaign money came from the US alone and under the limits set by campaign finance laws....... LOL

[Country 1st Always]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

It is this type of statement that reveals true motives. You have posted an attack on Sarah Palin, and one that is provably false. That type of post has only one intent, and that is to inflame.

If you were truly interested in sharing your viewpoints of Obama, and looking for common ground, you would make a positive, but factual statement of your candidate's position on a given subject, one that perhaps helped sway you to support him, and start a debate or discussion that way.

[freespirit]

OK, the $150,000 wardrobe thing is really silly thing that the pundits reported to get higher rating. It has little to do with what they propose to solve our country problems. This is just the other guy was trying to talk about not voting Hillary because of the "sniper fire" story. What they did prior campaigning is a lot more important proof on how they would carry on in their future plan. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! It is frustrating to hear this silly things.

It's a damn joke. Look at the money Obama spent in such frivolous and questionable ways (voters bussed from one state to another). Plus, after he runs this country in the ground noting else is gonna matter. We have got more serious concerns than Palin's wardrobe.

[Eddie3dfx]

It's a damn joke. Look at the money Obama spent in such frivolous and questionable ways (voters bussed from one state to another). Plus, after he runs this country in the ground noting else is gonna matter. We have got more serious concerns than Palin's wardrobe.

Palestinians are running phone banks for Obama and they are worried about Palin's clothes..

[NSTYLE77]

And believe me this poster KNOWS what she's talking about. I met her when she so graciously came to help us here in NV and SHE looks like a million bucks! She could give Palin a run for her money in the looks department any day!

Ah, thanks Sug! I wish I could look as great as her:).
Next time i am in Vegas, we should do lunch:). It was a pleasure meeting you!

[CountryFirst]

No it didn't die I think the people that are left here are more determined then ever........lets stick together and show people why we were known as PUMAS! LOL

Yes, but the irony is that before this site became "common ground" we actually had common ground. Plan B. I fail to see where I could find common ground here now, sorry.

I found common ground when we were all bucking our parties, and defending truth, justice and equality. When we were fighting against sexism and media bias, we had common ground.

Now, the Bots want to disparage Sarah Palin. There is no way I can find common ground with these people. Sorry, Murray. The common ground was when Republicans came on this website and PRAISED Hillary Clinton. The common ground was when Democrats on this site PRAISED McCain/Palin.

That is common ground.

Adolescent Obama Bots defending their sorry party and the sorry media and demeaning two great women, Hillary and Sarah will never lead to common ground. It will lead to fewer and fewer PUMAs coming to this place.

Count me as one.

[SugnSpicesmom]

Ah, thanks Sug! I wish I could look as great as her.
Next time i am in Vegas, we should do lunch. It was a pleasure meeting you!

Are you serious? You DID look as good as Palin - any day!!!

And yes, next time you come this way, make sure you let me know. We'll head out to lunch and catch up on campaign smut!:D

[CountryFirst]

yeah and funny they focus on such trival shit while NoBama was taking cajillions in foreign campaign money ILLEGALLY everyone just looks the other way..... I mean he was busted several times and had to give some back but just think of all that money that he wasn't busted on..... there is no way on God's green Earth that all of his campaign money came from the US alone and under the limits set by campaign finance laws....... LOL

B.O. deliberately turned off his Address Verification System. What does that tell you? How do you defend that Obama people? I donated $5 to Obama under a phony name and address. Tried to do the same thing to McCain's site, and it wouldn't let me.

Obama is a FRAUD! And I don't care if he somehow convinced 7 million extra people to vote for them. That doesn't make his crimes go away. Nixon won in a much bigger landslide than B.O., afterall. So by Obama supporter logic, Nixon was a honorable president, judging by the vote.

[ScottVA]

Yes, but the irony is that before this site became "common ground" we actually had common ground. Plan B. I fail to see where I could find common ground here now, sorry.

I found common ground when we were all bucking our parties, and defending truth, justice and equality. When we were fighting against sexism and media bias, we had common ground.

Now, the Bots want to disparage Sarah Palin. There is no way I can find common ground with these people. Sorry, Murray. The common ground was when Republicans came on this website and PRAISED Hillary Clinton. The common ground was when Democrats on this site PRAISED McCain/Palin.

That is common ground.

Adolescent Obama Bots defending their sorry party and the sorry media and demeaning two great women, Hillary and Sarah will never lead to common ground. It will lead to fewer and fewer PUMAs coming to this place.

Count me as one.


Plan B might have changed but we still have Plan B.....to ride NoBamas ass at every turn now......

[ScottVA]

B.O. deliberately turned off his Address Verification System. What does that tell you? How do you defend that Obama people? I donated $5 to Obama under a phony name and address. Tried to do the same thing to McCain's site, and it wouldn't let me.

Obama is a FRAUD! And I don't care if he somehow convinced 7 million extra people to vote for them. That doesn't make his crimes go away. Nixon won in a much bigger landslide than B.O., afterall. So by Obama supporter logic, Nixon was a honorable president, judging by the vote.

A friend of mine at Chase told me that their fraud investigation teams are going wild with all the fraudulent charges coming in from his campaign! Seems people were hijacking credit card numbers and making donations with them and since there was no verification in place as long as the card was active and had available credit the charge would go through.....

So much for honesty and integrity on NoBama's part! CHICAGO STYLE POLITICS just like we expect from him!

[CountryFirst]

Plan B might have changed but we still have Plan B.....to ride NoBamas ass at every turn now......

Yes, and to conserve energy for that important plan, I refuse to waste time on this site arguing with people who have no clue about how thuggish Obama really is. It's a wasted effort, Scott.

[evolin]

There's a police officer on my other forum, a man who catches child molesters for a living. He's one of the most thoughtful people there, and he voted for McCain.

Do you know what his first post was on Weds. morning, after he learned that Obama won?





Think about that for a while.
Boy! I may need to get my hip boots on to walk through this stuff soon.

[ggreen]

Its an issue because Sarah Palin is supposed to be this small town hero who is against the evil "elitism" that Barack Obama is supposed to represent. The hypocrisy that this represents is simply hilarious.

Check out the incomes and then tell me about hypocrisy!

Palin:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/03/palin-releases-tax-returns/

Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin and her husband, Todd, together had an adjusted gross income of $166,000 in 2007, up from $128,000 in 2006, according to tax returns and financial disclosure forms released by the McCain campaign Friday.

http://philanthropy.com/news/updates/5900/gov-palin-releases-tax-returns-reveals-charitable-giving

In 2007, the governor and her husband, Todd Palin, donated $2,500 to charity in cash donations and $825 in non-cash gifts, for a total of $3,325. This is 2 percent of their adjusted gross income.

The year before, the couple donated $4,250 to charity in cash and $630 in non-cash donations, for a total of $4,880 — or 3.8 percent of their adjusted gross income.


Biden:

http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/12/1388514.aspx

Biden and his wife, Jill, reported gross income of $215,432 in 1998 and their income stays roughly in the same ballpark for the next decade. His highest grossing year was 2005, when the Bidens reported total income of $321,379. That figure included $81,250 from the Sterling Lord literary agency.

One odd note: Biden's charitable giving is not exactly blockbuster. In 1998, for example, he reported just $195 in charitable gifts (on income of more than $215,000.) The next year he gave $120. The most he's given in one year was $995, on income that exceeded $319,000.

[freespirit]

Boy! I may need to get my hip boots on to walk through this stuff soon.

What's your point?

[Peppermint Patty]

Whether it was Sarah herself or the RNC, she allowed them to waste 150,000 in donations for her own wardrobe. If that money was instead spent on solidifying a ground game then they might have done better in the election. I could think of a million better ways to spend 150k than on a VP candidate's wardrobe, especially when said VP candidate is supposed to be so down with us regular folk and said candidate and her supporters are exclaiming that the Obama's are "elite".

And Obama wasting millions of donated dollars on Greek columns just to look good when he accepted his stolen nomination? THAT doesn't upset you but the Republicans spending 150k for Palin's wardrobe does?

Geesh. You have been repeatedly shown that she did not do the shopping but was following no doubt the RNC and other's plans for rolling her out and presenting her.

This is why you Obama supporters coming here is so annoying. You spout stupid nonsense like this and won't give an inch.

Tell me why it's okay in your mind or why you overlook the wasteful spending of $600 million DONATED dollars to buy the Presidency when he should have stuck to his promise to use public funding like McCain did?

Justify that. Bah. You can't.

[Lynne]

I don't understand why alot of you guys want to be so closed off from dissenting opinions. If you guys were confident in your opinions then you wouldn't mind dealing with people who have different trains of thought. Not all Obama supporters want to "troll" and gloat in victory. I myself have come in hopes of engaging positive debate (same reason why I'm a member of the hannity forums). Things get boring when EVERYONE has the same ideals and viewpoints.
The problem is that there are a handful of posters who do not or are unable to engage in debate or discussion. A point will be raised and the other says it is not true. I ask for evidence or more detail and I don't tend to get answers except for once.

It is hard to stick a hand out to engage in disussion when the other party will not shake your hand and even goes to the point of spitting on your hand.

I am not bothered by differing opinions. But at least answer some of my questions. Telling me O is a swell guy and I'm not patriotic is not helpful. I think some people are getting to the point where they no longer want to put their hand out to start a discussion. What is Obama's favorite saying? Bringing a gun to a knife fight. Well some of the Obama supporters brought their guns looking for a fight and not for debate.

This is not directed at you. This is the first I have seen any of your posts. If you are here to discuss issues, then welcome.

[CGP]

The problem is that there are a handful of posters who do not or are unable to engage in debate or discussion. A point will be raised and the other says it is not true. I ask for evidence or more detail and I don't tend to get answers except for once.

It is hard to stick a hand out to engage in disussion when the other party will not shake your hand and even goes to the point of spitting on your hand.

I am not bothered by differing opinions. But at least answer some of my questions. Telling me O is a swell guy and I'm not patriotic is not helpful. I think some people are getting to the point where they no longer want to put their hand out to start a discussion. What is Obama's favorite saying? Bringing a gun to a knife fight. Well some of the Obama supporters brought their guns looking for a fight and not for debate.

This is not directed at you. This is the first I have seen any of your posts. If you are here to discuss issues, then welcome.


This is true Lynn and it applies in both directions.

[sojourner]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

Sure Wasn't Palin! That is more money than she makes in a year.

[freespirit]

Murray, I'm surprised you're even allowing this 150K wardrobe topic. It's bull shit. The damn bots know how much their hero spent to buy this damn election. This is sexist garbage, and the people putting down Palin on something this stupid should be banned.

[AlexG]

WV4Hillary, if you are still around, I hope you know about http://www.hillarysvillage.net/ :D

[hipelayne]

Whether it was Sarah herself or the RNC, she allowed them to waste 150,000 in donations for her own wardrobe. If that money was instead spent on solidifying a ground game then they might have done better in the election. I could think of a million better ways to spend 150k than on a VP candidate's wardrobe, especially when said VP candidate is supposed to be so down with us regular folk and said candidate and her supporters are exclaiming that the Obama's are "elite".

Surely you're not seriously bringing up a $150,000 wardrobe compared to how many millions for the greek columns for BHO's coronation at the convention, and MO calling room service to order champagne, lobster and caviar! :eek::eek:

[MrSandMan]

The problem is that there are a handful of posters who do not or are unable to engage in debate or discussion. A point will be raised and the other says it is not true. I ask for evidence or more detail and I don't tend to get answers except for once.

It is hard to stick a hand out to engage in disussion when the other party will not shake your hand and even goes to the point of spitting on your hand.

I am not bothered by differing opinions. But at least answer some of my questions. Telling me O is a swell guy and I'm not patriotic is not helpful. I think some people are getting to the point where they no longer want to put their hand out to start a discussion. What is Obama's favorite saying? Bringing a gun to a knife fight. Well some of the Obama supporters brought their guns looking for a fight and not for debate.

This is not directed at you. This is the first I have seen any of your posts. If you are here to discuss issues, then welcome.

Lynne, I might be guilty of this. I engaged in a few debates in offtopic threads then I can't find the threads or the post that I made to follow up. lol. Sorry if I didn't get back with you on some issues. I'm trying to keep up. :o

[Lynne]

+1

lol they're not going to want to read this one...
I read it and had no problem with it. You provided supporting evidence for your comment. It was a fair point. The article adds credence to your point. This is what was done in the past on the forum. Now I have learned something.

Now will you look at the caucus fraud website by Lynette Long and see if you can understand why clinton dems state the primary was stolen. The caucus problems were real and heavily documented. Will you extend that same courtesy?

[Lynne]

Lynne, I might be guilty of this. I engaged in a few debates in offtopic threads then I can't find the threads or the post that I made to follow up. lol. Sorry if I didn't get back with you on some issues. I'm trying to keep up. :o
No you responded to most of the questions on the one post to you. A couple were missed but if I had a problem with it, I would have re-posted. Thank you for letting me know why you might have missed posts. There are a lot of busy threads and it can be a handful to track posts.

[justme819]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalexander06
A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

And what Ignoramus made these comments in SF about small town America when he thought his comments would just be heard by his elite buddies,

"...And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." - Sen. Barack Obama in SF

So he talks about small towns alright, but as a Snob! He also talks about them in different parts of the country in different ways, depending on what his audience believes. That`s called being a typical politician and a Phony, since he campaigned on being some kind of new and improved politician. It turns out that was the BULL PUMAS knew and said it was all along!

And as for spending $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements, that was the RNC. The clothes are going to charity which invalidates your weak argument just by itself!

[samkm]

Nancy, Thank you. Good research and supporting information there.

Here's how I view this: Whatever they spent, it was NOT illegal, immoral, unethical or against public policy.

Moving on to move interesting and borderline truly questionable spending. Better yet, to questionable acceptance of partisan politics money by organizations that should not endorse a single candidate, but did that anyway. Now, THAT is what is not helping democracy.

How can we ensure that such spending (that is illegal, immoral, unethical or against public policy)
- does not happen in the future, and
- if it happens, gets reported for all citizens to see in time to assess candidates.

By the way, how about spending campaign money in another country for audio visual. Is that unallowed use of funds?
What about sending money to relative's election outside the country?
I dont know. I am asking.

Should there be a system of reporting these expenses? Is FEC reporting these?

Is there a system of accounting for campaign finance that shows "ALLOWABLES" and "UNALLOWABLES" just the same way that we mere mortal business people have to account day in and day out? I only saw a full long list of expenses, and no categorization... what's the scoop? How can we hold them accountable?? Thoughts?

Thanks

[Nancy Kallitechnis]

Whether it was Sarah herself or the RNC, she allowed them to waste 150,000 in donations for her own wardrobe.

McCain was her boss and Sarah took orders from him and his campaign staff. So, she didn’t have the authority to allow them to buy clothes. By the way, McCain might not have known about the purchase. It was ordered by someone on his staff.

If that money was instead spent on solidifying a ground game then they might have done better in the election.

Clothes are part of campaigning. I suggest you read the Dress For Success books for information about how dress affects job hiring and performance. I wrote a research paper in college about this. There are many studies proving that clothes strongly affect how a person is perceived. Campaign fashion is not frivolous; it is a part of campaigning as important as speeches, etc. British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was a wealthy woman but she bought a brand new campaign wardrobe prior to each election campaign.

Hillary never had a 150k shopping bill that's for sure.

HRC had appropriate clothes for a national campaign because the Clintons are millionaires and HRC has been in national politics for 16 years.

In contrast, Palin had never been on a national campaign. The Palins earned about $170,000 last year supporting four children.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93J8ABG0&show_article=1&catnum=3
Palin regularly shops for used clothing for herself and her family.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122116644864624975.html?mod=todays_us_page_one
Haircuts at the beauty salon Palin visits cost $30. She chooses a Wasilla salon instead of the pricier salons in Anchorage.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/fashion/14hair.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=beehive%20wasilla&st=cse&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Considering Palin is the chief executive of her state it is unusual how little she spends on fashion.

Did she not wear the clothes?

The campaign told Palin to wear the clothes:

"…the campaign said, "'this is what you need as a VP candidate.' It was the campaign and/or the RNC ... But it wasn't the governor saying this is what she needs."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/11/palin-aide-offe.html

Did she not keep the expensive stylist around?

I assume both McCain, Palin and all the major candidates had stylists. That’s part of campaigning. I don’t know about a particular stylist.

Why didn't she refuse the clothes?

As I previously stated, Palin was told she had to wear the clothes. However, Palin said she didn’t wear most of the clothes.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/24/palin-denies-accepting-designer-clothes/

Meg Stapleton of the McPalin campain said that Palin was presented with the clothes and…

"Palin saw a price tag of $3,500 on one outfit and said she didn't want to wear it."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/11/palin-aide-offe.html

Its an issue because Sarah Palin is supposed to be this small town hero who is against the evil "elitism" that Barack Obama is supposed to represent. The hypocrisy…

I don't think elitism was portrayed as evil, but elitists have been portrayed in this campaign as not understanding working class folks.

Also, Sarah Palin is from a small town.
http://journaloffeministinsight.blogspot.com/2008/10/governor-palin-hardworking-pioneer.html
And Gov. Palin is an Alaska hero. She fought and won against the status quo many times.
http://journaloffeministinsight.blogspot.com/2008/11/gov-palin-has-been-underestimated.html

You are confusing Gov. Palin with some decisions made by McCain staffers.

Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...

Again, Palin didn’t buy the clothes, the purchases were ordered by campaign staff who instructed her to wear the clothes. However, it should be noted that Obama spent $400,000 on round trips to Hawaii for personal reasons not related to the campaign. He has every right to fly to Hawaii, but he could have flown much less expensively and not used campaign money. It’s important to be fair in comparing Palin and Obama. While the McCain staff should have spent less, Palin’s new clothes were necessary for campaigning. Whereas Obama spent much more campaign money on the vacation trips that were not part of his campaign.
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_hawaii_plane/2008/10/26/144260.html

[G'aal]

No problem for the clarification, but I disagree with your opinion. I've been here since May and lurked since March and there was no crazy hysteria going on here. There was a monotheme going on, but that's normal when the majority of active members have a common goal. You should also know that HCF has a diversified community with regards to religion, sexual orientation, politics, etc. Just because we had common goals doesn't mean there was an ongoing cyber riot.

Perhaps, but remember, I was canned for making two very civil, non-trolling, questioning comments (not positive, but not negative either) about John McCain and Sarah Palin. I never said one word about Barack Obama, pro or con, nor did I make a single negative comment about Hillary (nor would I). I think that shows a tipping point had been reached. It's one thing to pull together for the common good - it can even be heroic - but it's another to act as if you're the last defenders of the Alamo, when in fact there aren't any real attackers.

HCF had a just purpose at through the primaries, but after that, it became increasingly rancorous and intolerant. The negativity was obvious within pretty much every post. Negative energy has a very short shelf-life.

I think this forum will be infused with varying opinions and viewpoints with the change, and with that, some fresh air. I'm looking forward to it.

[CGP]

I think this forum will be infused with varying opinions and viewpoints with the change, and with that, some fresh air. I'm looking forward to it.

You and me both.

Though I accept the forum's history to date & how it reached the current point.

[Cate8]

I'm very new posting here but I read this forum for several months.

I was very pleasantly surprised by the opinions of Hillary's supporters. I was amazed at how much common ground I had with them and I asked twice to join a long time before I was allowed.

But common ground only goes so far. While I can find common ground with Hillary's supporters, I don't find it at all with Obama's supporters.

So, I just got here and now Hillary's supporters are leaving. It seems to me that you are going to have an Obama support forum very soon.

Ditto! I wanted to be on this forum for quite some time, because even though as a conservative, I disagreed with some things, there was so much I found in common, that I was excited! Now, I log-on and see someone attacking Sarah Palin for the wardrobe fiasco that was already debunked here weeks ago. :mad: If I wanted to put up with this BS, I would just go read comments at CNN or Huffpo for fun. I don't understand why the Obama supporters want to come here, when the whole world is a giant Obama supporting forum. We don't need to be brainwashed, too.

[CGP]

We don't need to be brainwashed, too.

Those who are "brainwashed" are those who want to be "brainwashed" or who allow it to occur.

If you have control over your own thoughts/opions, how can anyone "brainwash" you?

Is being exposed to a viewpoint you don't agree with constitute "brainwashing"? No.

[hillarymyhero]

Yes, that is sad to see this forum turned in to all Obama admiration camp , sorry I can't change my fair views, I am not rigid but I am unable to see this forum that I love and adore got evoluted in to Obama land and Obama mania....

I am here to share my views based on my Hillary/Palin inspiration , NOT for wasting my time upon reading Obama's victory's hoopla...:(

[Cate8]

Those who are "brainwashed" are those who want to be "brainwashed" or who allow it to occur.

If you have control over your own thoughts/opions, how can anyone "brainwash" you?

Is being exposed to a viewpoint you don't agree with constitute "brainwashing"? No.

Ok, so attempted brainwashing then. I just feel that we are having Obama SHOVED down our throat. I get that on CNN, MSM, and etc. I would like to talk about areas we might have common ground, whether coming from the right or the left, like campaign finance abuse, voter fraud, sexism against women in politics, and so on... not whether Obama is a community organizer or how wonderful it would be if only 18 year olds voted. It's offensive to me, and I have only been a lurker for a few months. I can't imagine how the long-time members feel.

[xfiles]

Ignore the Obots and they will get tired of talking to themselves and go away.

We can talk to each other like we have been over the last months.

[AlexG]

It's offensive to me, and I have only been a lurker for a few months. I can't imagine how the long-time members feel.

I have been here since February. No, it doesn't feel great. I don't like reading people said "Hillary is a liar" , "Sniper fire was intenally made up by Hillary" , "Hillary cheated." , "Palin spent $150,000." and such. All these are not true. The last one especially was "McCain campaign personels got a blank check to purchase Palin's and her family's clothes." These things are totally off the limit to me as it is (1) not true (2) unrelated to how they would solve our country problems and crises, and their policies.

[Kathy1980]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...


Are you effing kidding?? Sarah Palin is a wonderful woman. BO is a FRAUD, LIAR and an EVIL DUMBASS:mad::mad:

[Den2006]

A lot of people would say Sarah Palin is much more of a fraud than Obama is. Which one of these preaches about "Real America" and small town values yet spends $150,000 in wardrobe enhancements? Sure wasn't Obama...Palin didn't spend the 150k on wardrobe the RNC supplied her wardrobe. We have no idea how much BO's campain spent on his wardrobe the unbiased press didn't bother to dig the dirt and misrepresent it on him. Hopefully they didn't spend much for MO's wardrobe though.

[yheitman]

Shut the f*** up DAAlexander, you're an ignorant man or woman. Do you think those funereal suit that Obama wore were $300 suits off the rack? Do you even know how much money he spent on his wardrobe? Why are you so obsessed with the expenditure of the RNC on Sarah's clothes? Do you think we don't know that your Obama is an elitist that probably had a couple hundred thousand dollars in suits for the campaign to go along with his arugula salads and his lobster and caviar?

Just shut the F*** up! Murray it is people like these that piss me off and I'm out of here also. All DAAlexander can talk about is Sarah's clothes (sexist pig) and NOTHING you say to this indoctrinated, ignorant buffoon is penetrating their thick skull but that's an Obama supporter for you.

Have fun with your new forum.

[Den2006]

Hence why they are so boring and, in my view, toxic.

Simarily if HCF only wishes to have one viewpoint - a monoview - how is it any different?

That is my question to everyone. And that is why I wish to pursue CGP as something different.Differing opinions are one thing but so far all we're seeing is spamming of Obama talking points, campain slogans and leftist press misrepresentations. It's like reading posts from the walking dead Obot playback drones.

[EsmeraldaB]

In fact...I think RiseHillaryRise, who ORGANIZED the Denver march was CHASED out of here for not being pro-McCain/Palin enough. And she was DEFINITELY No Obama.

Where did you get that from? She rarely posted here except to give updates on the march. She had her own site and her own people to deal with. What makes you think she was "run out"?

[Alessandro Machi]

But have you been reading your own forum? It sounds like you are a reasonable person, but there was nothing BUT a monoview here. WV4Hillary is quitting for exactly that reason -- it's not monoview anymore.

That's her complaint: You let in some people with different opinions, and ruined everything.

I've been posting on forums for more than five years, and the only forum I've ever seen that even approached how monoview this forum was was the ALIPAC forum. On my main forum, http://forum.trianglefreeforum.com (http://forum.trianglefreeforum.com/) (centered around the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area of NC), we have folks from all over the political spectrum. We argue and bicker, but at least we get to learn about other people's viewpoints.

If people can't stand to read an opinion that's wildly different than their own, how solid a foundation lies beneath their opinion? Can't they defend and expand on it?

Do you realize you have a thread explicitly comparing Obama to Adolf Hitler right this very evening? And people are offended if anyone suggests that Obama ISN'T Adolf Hitler? That's how bad things got, because all you had was the monoview.

The problem is, MSNBC is out of control. Kos and Huffington Post are still around. Already Hillary Clinton is being sabotaged.

I started a topic in which the forum consider holding onto to some tenets, or truisms, and any new member that doesn't agree with those truisms should just not bother posting. How can I have an intelligent discussion with someone if they actually believe the media is fair? It can't be done.

How can I have an intelligent discussion with someone who thinks it was perfectly normal for Barack Obama to win by a 2 - 1 margin in Republican leaning caucus contests in which practically nobody voted but ACORN double voters, and that these delegates should count more than what superdelegates wanted?

How can I have an intelligent conversation with someone who thinks it was ok for Barack Obama to have collected and spent 200 million dollars in undocumented campaign contributions?

I'm kind of surprise that the specific topic that could prove constructive in solving some of these issues only has ONE reply so far.

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=41316

[Pepper]

Where did you get that from? She rarely posted here except to give updates on the march. She had her own site and her own people to deal with. What makes you think she was "run out"?

That's what I was wondering.

[jlynne]

I liked the way we used to discuss issues before not the new he said/she said method. Remember when we used to post news articles like this and discuss the issues the article raised? Look at all the topics in bold where we could have conducted an intelligent debate instead of sniping at each other.

That is what I want back.

Women running for top offices need to appear competent and attractive, according to a new study. For male candidates, seeming competent may be enough.

It's a finding that could help justify heavy spending on makeup and wardrobe for Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, while at the same time raising questions about the need for a man like John Edwards to invest in a costly haircut.

For male candidates, the only thing that mattered to male voters was competence, while female voters preferred men who seemed both competent and approachable.

But for "female candidates for a hypothetical election for the United States presidency, both male and female voters were more likely to vote for candidates that were both competent and attractive," Chiao said in a telephone interview.

So, how did Chiao and her colleagues reach their conclusion?

They collected photos of congressional candidates from 2006 and asked a panel of 73 college students to rate the candidates for competence, dominance, attractiveness and approachability.

None of the students recognized any of the candidates and most had never voted in a real election.

Overall, men tended to be rated more competent than women. Female students rated male candidates as appearing more dominant, while male students saw no difference in dominance.

All the students rated female candidates more attractive than men, and female candidates were rated as more approachable.

Once they had the sets of ratings for the candidates, the researchers divided them into pairs and asked the students to select which one they would be more likely to choose as president.

Their conclusions about the qualities needed to win votes were based on the winners of those hypothetical contests.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/wire/sns-ap-sci-pretty-politicians,0,7982127.story


If you will induldge me I am going to start another thread on this article to see what kind of response I get.

[ZforHill]

Holy ship, this thread has gone on much longer than it should have. Murray, if you're reading this, can we lock threads that reach a certain amount of posts? If the topic is intriguing, which this one is certainly not, then you can start a new thread and continute from there. Long threads with no topic annoy me.

[WorkingMommy]

So lets compare...

Obama spends money @ the DNC and the Hyde Park celebration, the former which set the stage for a successful presidential campaign, and the latter which set the stage for the historic victory celebration.

Sarah Palin and the RNC spends money on her clothes. Hrm, not much else to say here. There isn't much justification to this....

Seems to me like the Obama campaign spent their money wisely while Sarah spent her money irresponsibility.


OMG this makes absolutely NO SENSE! BO wasted millions of dollars. Spent wisely? Give me a break. He waisted tons of money how can you compare the millions he spent on that stupid set after the sham of a democratic convention? By the way how much did MO's wardrobe cost? Why didn't BO send that money off to people who need it? Why does Sarah Palin send more money to charity then the Great Divider? They are millionaires and the Palin's aren't. What a joke. This forum is turning into another Topix. Nothing different about it full of Bobots.

[diane]

VW4Hillary---I"m going to miss seeing your avatar! When I see certain one's it's like a visit from a friend. And of course I enjoyed reading your posts. I understand what your saying though. Already we're having to explain what went on during the Primary and why we don't support Obama to Obama supporters. Then they tot out Media "facts" which don't have anythng to do with anything.

"Palin spent such and such on clothes" and Obama spent? Armani suits don't come cheap you know. (Unless you're Jessie Jackson who stole millions from the United Way to buy his.) But is this different than the DNC or RNC buying the clothes their Candidates wear for every other election? No, i'ts not different---THis is just another tactic used to discredit another Woman running for Office--to make her look frivilous. Those who supported Obama and thereby benefited from and actively engaged in the rampant misogyny spewed at Hillary and her supporters are once again saying that we didn't see or hear what we did. That's an insidious form of agreesion..and oh so clever, Saul Alinsky would be proud.

All the best to you, at least we fought the good fight! So by for now....

[Nancy Kallitechnis]

Overall, men tended to be rated more competent than women.

Interesting how people rate a person's competence from a photograph of a candidate they don't know anything else about.

[justme819]

Interesting how people rate a person's competence from a photograph of a candidate they don't know anything else about.

Interesting and sad at the same time... :(

[eviee]

No, I'm sorry, I don't see the distinction. Hillary never had a 150k shopping bill that's for sure. She knew that money could be more wisely spent. It's the difference between a responsible candidate and an irresponsible one.


You are comparing Hillary to Sarah and I think thats unfair. Hillary along with Bill generally call the shots on how things are done, but thats because they have been on the political scene for a long time. This is why the DNC did not want Hillary to be POTUS.
As for Sarah, RNC along with Bush advisors and McCain's were the ones pushing to make her over.
Personally, if Sarah were a guy this would not have happen either. Women are held to a higher standard when it comes to looks, even in work places such as schools. Where I worked the males got away with wearing their faded jeans, while women were frown upon.
For all the false prasing you have for Hillary, many Obama supporters along with the media were brutal about her hair, ankles, and pant suits.

[NanCi1214]

So lets compare...

Obama spends money @ the DNC and the Hyde Park celebration, the former which set the stage for a successful presidential campaign, and the latter which set the stage for the historic victory celebration.

Sarah Palin and the RNC spends money on her clothes. Hrm, not much else to say here. There isn't much justification to this....

Seems to me like the Obama campaign spent their money wisely while Sarah spent her money irresponsibility.


This is a silly comparison. My understanding is that the clothing money was spent for the Palin family, consisting of mostly females, who were all compaigning. Now, sadly, and I should know, being female, women's clothing does not hold up nearly as well as men's clothing, especially in the workplace, and campaigning in these instances was the workplace. I have railed against this for years. Being a rather ordinary family, I'm sure the Palin's clothes, especially Sarah's, were in tatters very quickly. Shoes, especially. Except for women's army shoes, which now seem to be even more built like men's than they were in my army days, most women's shoes will fall apart under the kind of punishment Sarah's days and weeks of compaigning must have subjected them to. And it doesn't take long to tot up a few hundred dollars in clothing just for one person, especially when you are buying quality and, in some cases, style. They weren't shopping at Wal-Mart, after all.

As for the overblown Greek columns and such they merely solidified my opposition to the whole gang of Obama and supporters. They reminded me of newsreels of Germany during Hitler's reign. That was my first thought when I saw them.

Another point. You are comparing apples to oranges. If you choose to criticize the amount spent on clothing for the Palins, then compare it with the amount spent on clothing for the Obama family. What was their clothing budget for the campaign?

When you can do that then I'll listen.

NanCi1214

[foxyladi]

This is not directed at you at all but your comment made me think about something & the example applies equally to myself & my own behavior:

Can you see that when you say "Obama the fraud" a reasonable-minded Obama supporter might feel slighted? (even if he is fraud)

In the same way, when someone calls "Hillary a liar" can you see how I might feel slighted? (even if she did lie about something)

It's no different. Just because I think I am "right" about my opinion/feeling in no way ensures the other person feels any less "right" about their opinion.

Who is to judge who is right and who is wrong? I think I am "right" for supporting Hillary. An Obama supporter thinks he/she is "right" for supporting Obama. Ultimately, who decides who is "right"? Who is the judge? As such, the need to interact in a respectful manner becomes all the more important to prevent total breakdown in communication.

AMEN..admin.....