View Full Version : Please don't let the Obama supporters take this site over.
Redladybird
11-24-2008, 01:18 PM
I came to this forum during the campaign for several months wanting to join. I am now sensing the Obama supporters trying to manipulate "us" into accepting them. "We" have very strong and legitimate reasons for not having supported Obama.:mad:
Example from a post I just read on this site below:
"No offense but I think you really need to calm down. Relax. No one here is going to boot you for not liking Obama. But I think you should probably give Obama supporters a chance. We aren't that bad...Things have been fairly calm here for the past couple days with us around."
Please do not allow this forum to be taken over too.
___________
Horizon
11-24-2008, 01:22 PM
I came to this forum during the campaign for several months wanting to join. I am now sensing the Obama supporters trying to manipulate "us" into accepting them. "We" have very strong and legitimate reasons for not having supported Obama.:mad:
Example from a post I just read on this site below:
"No offense but I think you really need to calm down. Relax. No one here is going to boot you for not liking Obama. But I think you should probably give Obama supporters a chance. We aren't that bad...Things have been fairly calm here for the past couple days with us around."
Please do not allow this forum to be taken over too.
___________
Believe me,they are still the minority here.There are less than a dozen of them.It seems like more because they are very prolific posters and we are not used to them.We have far more conservative and HRC supporters here.
Redladybird
11-24-2008, 01:35 PM
That's encouraging because the Obama supporters do not seem to understand why we are so frustrated with what happened during the primaries. I think we would have felt better if Obama had won fair and squarely. But, he did not (media bias, sexism, Michigan and Florida votes, Pelosi, sweetie comment, Caucuses, false racism accusations, uncalled for hatred for the Clintons, etc). We won't fall apart because of the outcome (I hope) but we don’t have to be happy about it. I just hope we can have a few sites where we can get real answers and not be afraid to disagree with "The Great One Obama".
deannah
11-24-2008, 01:43 PM
I think accepting "us" is not the same as accepting Obama. I have many conservative friends. I accept them, even though I do/did not accept Bush or McCain as candidates I could agree with.
While I am an Obama supporter, I can assure you that I'm not trying to "convert" you in any way. I do not try to convert my conservative friends. They do not try to convert me. We have fundamental differences in our political ideologies. Believe it or not, we enjoy talking about them, both from a theoretical standpoint and from a "real world" standpoint. Sometimes we even agree with each other! Some of the political philosophies that I agree with in theory, don't turn out so well in the real world!
And at the end of the day, despite our political differences and our (sometimes) heated debates, they are still my friends. They are still people, good people with good hearts who I love even though I can't for the life of me figure out their political leanings. :p
So I guess what you think is us trying to make you "accept" Obama, is maybe just us trying to convince you that there are caring, intelligent, well-read and well-researched, people who voted for Obama. We probably have more in common than you might think! I understand that you probably had bad experiences with Obama supporters. But over 50 million people voted for him. We can't ALL be Kool-aid drinking, naive idiots!
I try to extend the courtesy of giving people the benefit of the doubt. I've had my hand bit more than once, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop. All I ask for is the same respect in return.
I expect lots of difference in opinion here. I welcome that. But please be willing to hear what I have to say before you blow me off, label me, or paint me with the "Bot" brush. I would appreciate that very much.
Folamix
11-24-2008, 01:43 PM
I for one kinda like the new direction this forum is taking. Previously the "groupthink" mentality was a bit much and was definitely turning me off. Although most of the arguments of the Obama supporters don't hold water for me, I have adopted a wait and see attitude. Yes there a couple of Obama supporters here that are quite prolific and a bit obvious about their agenda as well. That is not to say they all have agendas or that their agendas are negative. Actually I think there are more here than we see represented on the board.
However, I do have faith in Murray. I think he is wise to take his time about bringing on new moderators.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 01:44 PM
That's encouraging because the Obama supporters do not seem to understand why we are so frustrated with what happened during the primaries. I think we would have felt better if Obama had won fair and squarely. But, he did not (media bias, sexism, Michigan and Florida votes, Pelosi, sweetie comment, Caucuses, false racism accusations, uncalled for hatred for the Clintons, etc). We won't fall apart because of the outcome (I hope) but we don’t have to be happy about it. I just hope we can have a few sites where we can get real answers and not be afraid to disagree with "The Great One Obama".
It's been pretty darn interesting with them here!!! For the most part,they have not tried to change our minds.We have had several heated threads regarding sexism and racism.It all turns out.I have found that if a certain poster is very irritating and offensive,I don't post in that thread.One I did have to put on my ignore list and that was helpful too.
It has certainly been a change from having a forum where everyone agreed with each other.There is NEVER a dull moment,and I have actually learned a lot as to what makes an Obama supporter tick.I live with one,so this was not as much as a shock to me as it was to others.Our Admin does too,and he is very accepting but still holds true to his support of HRC.He was never in line with what was called plan B,electing McCain.Most of the people here that were HRC supporters,but not McCain supporters,were unfortunately ran off for not going along with plan B.Some have made their way back and we were glad to see them.I actually voted for McPalin,in protest.So,we are in transition here,and have a really good mix of people.No one group will be allowed to "take over" this forum.The admin would not allow that.
Welcome to you!
The_Basseteer
11-24-2008, 01:54 PM
I'm a new Conservative member here, don't worry I'll try and gently turn you all towards the right..I've had experience at that. In 1968 my wife was demonstrating in Chicago outside of the Democrat Convention; this year she was working for the Republican Party getting our candidates elected and next year she's getting her concealed carry permit. Like Zel Miller, she didn't leave the party, it left her.
deannah
11-24-2008, 02:06 PM
I'm a new Conservative member here, don't worry I'll try and gently turn you all towards the right..I've had experience at that. In 1968 my wife was demonstrating in Chicago outside of the Democrat Convention; this year she was working for the Republican Party getting our candidates elected and next year she's getting her concealed carry permit. Like Zel Miller, she didn't leave the party, it left her.
Heh, that makes me think of the saying "If you're in your 20s and you're not a Democrat, you have no heart. If you're in your 40s and you're not a Republican, you have no brain." Well, I'm only in my 30s, but I have gotten progressively MORE liberal over the years. So I'm not sure what that makes me! :D
lanney
11-24-2008, 02:11 PM
What happened to Obama's Granny? We know she passed one day before election but no memorial attended by Obama, no family visit to Hawai for last journey? Why? Or did I missed news?
Obama supporters can shed light on cold Obama.
Spang
11-24-2008, 02:13 PM
Why do I have to know everything going on in Obama's personal life just because I support him? I have no idea what's going on in his personal life.
TheTaoOfBill
11-24-2008, 02:14 PM
First we'll take over HCF... then... THE WORLD!!!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif
Horizon
11-24-2008, 02:15 PM
What happened to Obama's Granny? We know she passed one day before election but no memorial attended by Obama, no family visit to Hawai for last journey? Why? Or did I missed news?
Obama supporters can shed light on cold Obama.
There will be a private service that the family is attending,I think this week.The last one was for the public.
It was a lot of mis information that he was not doing anything in rememberance of her.Sad how he got attacked over this.
I am no fan of his,believe me,but I really think that attacking him over this was vile.
The_Basseteer
11-24-2008, 02:24 PM
Heh, that makes me think of the saying "If you're in your 20s and you're not a Democrat, you have no heart. If you're in your 40s and you're not a Republican, you have no brain." Well, I'm only in my 30s, but I have gotten progressively MORE liberal over the years. So I'm not sure what that makes me! :D
It makes you still finding yourself. I think that 20 to 40 thing is on a sliding scale; my dad is 83 and he knew what he was when he was 21 and back home from WWII in the South Pacific. We don't have those types of pressures these days to force us to decide where we stand or who do we trust to have our back. There is still right and wrong, black and white; and not just zebras, pandas and penguins.
deannah
11-24-2008, 02:27 PM
This reminds me of when my mom had her first stroke. At the time I had a job where I traveled somewhat as the company's trade show manager. I had to balance my need to take care of her, with the cold hard reality that I couldn't afford to quit my job and I was in a position where I was literally the only one that could handle the day-to-day operations of the trade show booth and we had a big show while she was still in the hospital.
So, yeah, she was in the hospital getting a surgery and I was in Detroit, with a show in full bloom, my stomach in knots and my hand clenched on my cell phone. If anyone had chastised me for not being there with her, I would have flown off the handle. And I was just a lowly marketing person, not the incoming president of the US in the middle of an economic crisis and a transition into the presidency.
I think for someone to question Obama over this is unfair. I think it says a lot more what he did for her while she was alive (suspending his campaign to fly over to say goodbye) than it does wondering what he's doing for her after she has passed. If you are not in a position to know, then you are not in a position to speculate or judge.
TheTaoOfBill
11-24-2008, 02:29 PM
What happened to Obama's Granny? We know she passed one day before election but no memorial attended by Obama, no family visit to Hawai for last journey? Why? Or did I missed news?
Obama supporters can shed light on cold Obama.
The family service for Obama's grandmother has not happened yet. There was a friend/coworker service that neither Obama or his half sister could attend. But both plan on attending the family service in December.
Ikasu
11-24-2008, 02:43 PM
There's not that many of them, it's just the ones that do post are really loud.
SoCal4Hillary
11-24-2008, 03:01 PM
There's not that many of them, it's just the ones that do post are really loud.Yes, they are. And they're showing their character loud and clear--insulting those of us who've spent months, or more, researching Obama and who know far more about him than they do, yet they call us uninformed and say we don't cite our sources. Um, hello? We've been citing our sources on this forum alone since early this year. If they're interested in facts, let them use their little gray cells to look up our old threads. :rolleyes:
Bubbles
11-24-2008, 03:05 PM
I don't really think that any Obama supporter has enough steam about them to retort the truth into their marketing points over and over, unless they're getting paid to do it full time.
In my case, being from Illinois... I've got about 3 additional years of steam & knowledge built up that they have no case against... so you can count on at least me remaining in the frustrated yet vigilant group. ;)
Folamix
11-24-2008, 03:24 PM
If you are not in a position to know, then you are not in a position to speculate or judge.
Doesn't stop a lot of people
Spang
11-24-2008, 03:24 PM
Doesn't stop a lot of people
Which people? Hillary supporters, Obama supporters, Palin supporters, or all of them?
Bubbles
11-24-2008, 03:27 PM
Which people? Hillary supporters, Obama supporters, Palin supporters, or all of them?
Well... if you have to ask... that is kind of the answer to the question. ;)
Spang
11-24-2008, 03:28 PM
Well... if you have to ask... that is kind of the answer to the question. ;)
My answer is all of them. Not everyone within said groups, however.
Folamix
11-24-2008, 03:34 PM
Which people? Hillary supporters, Obama supporters, Palin supporters, or all of them?
I was making a general statement. Read into it what you will.
foxyladi
11-24-2008, 03:57 PM
we will keep supporting HILLARY...:D:D
Redladybird
11-24-2008, 04:15 PM
[QUOTE
So I guess what you think is us trying to make you "accept" Obama, is maybe just us trying to convince you that there are caring, intelligent, well-read and well-researched, people who voted for Obama. We probably have more in common than you might think! I understand that you probably had bad experiences with Obama supporters. But over 50 million people voted for him. We can't ALL be Kool-aid drinking, naive idiots!
I try to extend the courtesy of giving people the benefit of the doubt. I've had my hand bit more than once, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop. All I ask for is the same respect in return.
I expect lots of difference in opinion here. I welcome that. But please be willing to hear what I have to say before you blow me off, label me, or paint me with the "Bot" brush. I would appreciate that very much.[/QUOTE]
Call it what you want (convert or convince). I can think for myself and I did not reach this conclusion out of nowhere. Many people may be mesmerized by Barack Obama but I am not. Why do Obama supporters like to pretend that this was not a close race " But over 50 million people voted for him." Can you tell me how many voted for Hillary and McCain? Despite all of the shinanigans that went on? There are millions who aren't impressed that the first biracial/person of color "won" the election. Big deal can we just vote for the most qualified regardless of race, sex etc. (I am a black women from Chicago, so don't call me a racist so quickly- anyone should be able to say what i just said by the way). There is a way that certain pro-Obama supporters speak that make me lable them as drunk on kool-aid (kind of offensive BTW) or thinking pro-Obama supporters who believe he is the most capable. I'll just keep my oppinion of where I have placed you to myself;). Bottom line I hope this site doesn't lose it's focus and remains a place for people to get information and vent if they don't agree with Obama and the DNC's dissappointing behavior. Will be watching to see this CHANGE though.
Spang
11-24-2008, 04:16 PM
This isn't directed to anyone specifically, but the best way to win an argument is to listen.
Eddie3dfx
11-24-2008, 04:21 PM
This isn't directed to anyone specifically, but the best way to win an argument is to listen.
Or better yet, produce facts and not strawman arguments.
Most of the Obama supporters on here are simply mouthpieces for talking points.
When you start really digging into arguments and facts and going through a real extrapolation process, you will then understand how one may question certain policies and or approaches.
The reason why many think Obama supporters are brainwashed, is the raised brow concern that they tend believe in every one of his figures and ideals without trying to question why it might be wrong or what other approaches might result in a better solution. This type of go with the party mentality can lead a country off a cliff when checks and balances seem to be lacking. The country has been led by democrats for the last 2 years and we are certainly not better off.
NativeSun
11-24-2008, 04:56 PM
Or better yet, produce facts and not strawman arguments.
Most of the Obama supporters on here are simply mouthpieces for talking points.
When you start really digging into arguments and facts and going through a real extrapolation process, you will then understand how one may question certain policies and or approaches.
The reason why many think Obama supporters are brainwashed, is the raised brow concern that they tend believe in every one of his figures and ideals without trying to question why it might be wrong or what other approaches might result in a better solution. This type of go with the party mentality can lead a country off a cliff when checks and balances seem to be lacking. The country has been led by democrats for the last 2 years and we are certainly not better off.
The new O-bots are more of a joke than a threat. Why should anyone be
offended by their postings? Here's a question to all of the "traditional" HCF
memebers: Who's judgement to you trust more? Yours or theirs? They sound
more like a group of high schoolers or frat boys in their postings than those
with a lot of life experience (especially in paying taxes). Let them be here,
and just have fun with it!
Horizon
11-24-2008, 05:04 PM
The new O-bots are more of a joke than a threat. Why should anyone be
offended by their postings? Here's a question to all of the "traditional" HCF
memebers: Who's judgement to you trust more? Yours or theirs? They sound
more like a group of high schoolers or frat boys in their postings than those
with a lot of life experience (especially in paying taxes). Let them be here,
and just have fun with it!
LOL! And that's is an excellent way to look at it!!
Bubbles
11-24-2008, 05:04 PM
^ LOL... to the paying taxes part. I've never met an Obama supporter that is in a higher tax liability bracket then I am, still waitting for that day.
Spang
11-24-2008, 05:13 PM
Oprah. Once you meet her, that is.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 05:17 PM
Oprah. Once you meet her, that is.
Don't get me going on that woman.She drives me nuts.It happened far before her endorsement of Obama.
Bubbles
11-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Oprah. Once you meet her, that is.
LOL... and I never will, so that one won't work.
BooskerD
11-24-2008, 05:20 PM
I came to this forum during the campaign for several months wanting to join. I am now sensing the Obama supporters trying to manipulate "us" into accepting them. "We" have very strong and legitimate reasons for not having supported Obama.:mad:
Example from a post I just read on this site below:
"No offense but I think you really need to calm down. Relax. No one here is going to boot you for not liking Obama. But I think you should probably give Obama supporters a chance. We aren't that bad...Things have been fairly calm here for the past couple days with us around."
Please do not allow this forum to be taken over too.
___________
Put them on "ignore"...believe me, it's worth it! :D
Horizon
11-24-2008, 05:28 PM
Put them on "ignore"...believe me, it's worth it! :D
I have actually only had to put one of them on my ignore list.It is working out quite nicely for me.If anyone needs to know how to use the ignore option,just ask.It is very useful.
It was only the 2nd time in the history of my membership I have ever been compelled to use this feature.It was well worth it.
partypeople
11-24-2008, 05:29 PM
Now that this forum is open to all and balanced, I get to make a "don't mind the angry McCain supporters" thread- right? Because if anything is more of a "joke" than a McCain supporter, it's a McCain supporter disguised as a "true Hillary Democrat."
Since we're all being so open here on how we feel about Obama supporters, I thought I'd keep things balanced.
NativeSun
11-24-2008, 05:31 PM
Now that this forum is open to all and balanced, I get to make a "don't mind the angry McCain supporters" thread- right? Because if anything is more of a "joke" than a McCain supporter, it's a McCain supporter disguised as a "true Hillary Democrat."
Since we're all being so open here on how we feel about Obama supporters, I thought I'd keep things balanced.
And very grown-up as well!
Horizon
11-24-2008, 05:33 PM
See how well it works for me?? I saw nothing.I heard nothing.
partypeople
11-24-2008, 05:34 PM
And very grown-up as well!
I'm glad you can see my humor in the the idiocy of this thread.
"All Obama supporters are a joke."
"Well all McCain supporters are a joke."
"Well, I'm paper- you're glue.." :rolleyes:
Why is this thread even here?
NativeSun
11-24-2008, 05:34 PM
See how well it works for me?? I saw nothing.I heard nothing.
Stop quoting Obama!!!;)
BooskerD
11-24-2008, 05:39 PM
See how well it works for me?? I saw nothing.I heard nothing.
:D:D:D It's my favorite feature!
Redladybird
11-24-2008, 05:40 PM
Why are you here???:confused:
TheTaoOfBill
11-24-2008, 05:43 PM
^ LOL... to the paying taxes part. I've never met an Obama supporter that is in a higher tax liability bracket then I am, still waitting for that day.
A lot of people here have. Hillary and Bill are a couple.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 05:45 PM
Why are you here???:confused:
Me??
I have been here since March. I actually left a few weeks ago and went to another forum that was started by other members from here.It was a bit too conservative for my taste,and then they started deleting and editing my posts that weren't conservative enough.So,when this opened back up,I ran back over.I was actually banned from the other place this morning.Which was a crack up.I had not posted anything there in days.I laughed so hard I spit coffee all over.
My bf is an Obama supporter so this doesn't freak me out as much as it does others.I know what I know and I believe what I believe and nothing they can say or do will change that.I actually find this rather amusing and it's been a good opportunity to see what makes them tick.Kinda like a science experiment.
calmati
11-24-2008, 05:55 PM
There's not that many of them, it's just the ones that do post are really loud.
Pet Peeve: All inclusive statements.
Granted, I don't post a lot, but I don't believe I've posted anything that would be considered "really loud".
Personally, I'm here because I wanted to participate in some of the polls and some of the more opinion-based threads. Murray has pointedly asked Obama supporters (in a few threads) for their thoughts on particular news stories. I contributed to a couple of those.
I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone of anything. We're all grown-ups. You can make your own choices/decisions just as well as I can. Just because your choice(s) may be different than mine, does not make it any less valid. However (for me), it is nice to read a thread on a topic I may not be very familiar with, and come away with "Wow... I never thought of it that way..." - no matter if it comes from an Obama supporter or a McCain supporter, etc.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 05:56 PM
Pet Peeve: All inclusive statements.
Granted, I don't post a lot, but I don't believe I've posted anything that would be considered "really loud".
Personally, I'm here because I wanted to participate in some of the polls and some of the more opinion-based threads. Murray has pointedly asked Obama supporters (in a few threads) for their thoughts on particular news stories. I contributed to a couple of those.
I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone of anything. We're all grown-ups. You can make your own choices/decisions just as well as I can. Just because your choice(s) may be different than mine, does not make it any less valid. However (for me), it is nice to read a thread on a topic I may not be very familiar with, and come away with "Wow... I never thought of it that way..." - no matter if it comes from an Obama supporter or a McCain supporter, etc.
No worries.You are doing just fine.I have enjoyed reading your posts today.
Ikasu
11-24-2008, 05:56 PM
Me??
I have been here since March. I actually left a few weeks ago and went to another forum that was started by other members from here.It was a bit too conservative for my taste,and then they started deleting and editing my posts that weren't conservative enough.So,when this opened back up,I ran back over.I was actually banned from the other place this morning.Which was a crack up.I had not posted anything there in days.I laughed so hard I spit coffee all over.
My bf is an Obama supporter so this doesn't freak me out as much as it does others.I know what I know and I believe what I believe and nothing they can say or do will change that.I actually find this rather amusing and it's been a good opportunity to see what makes them tick.Kinda like a science experiment.
OMG you got banned? LOL what is their problem?
TheTaoOfBill
11-24-2008, 05:57 PM
Me??
I have been here since March. I actually left a few weeks ago and went to another forum that was started by other members from here.It was a bit too conservative for my taste,and then they started deleting and editing my posts that weren't conservative enough.So,when this opened back up,I ran back over.I was actually banned from the other place this morning.Which was a crack up.I had not posted anything there in days.I laughed so hard I spit coffee all over.
My bf is an Obama supporter so this doesn't freak me out as much as it does others.I know what I know and I believe what I believe and nothing they can say or do will change that.I actually find this rather amusing and it's been a good opportunity to see what makes them tick.Kinda like a science experiment.
Nope....Red meant the guy you ignored. Had you not ignored him you'd be in the know ;)
Ikasu
11-24-2008, 05:58 PM
Pet Peeve: All inclusive statements.
Granted, I don't post a lot, but I don't believe I've posted anything that would be considered "really loud".
Personally, I'm here because I wanted to participate in some of the polls and some of the more opinion-based threads. Murray has pointedly asked Obama supporters (in a few threads) for their thoughts on particular news stories. I contributed to a couple of those.
I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone of anything. We're all grown-ups. You can make your own choices/decisions just as well as I can. Just because your choice(s) may be different than mine, does not make it any less valid. However (for me), it is nice to read a thread on a topic I may not be very familiar with, and come away with "Wow... I never thought of it that way..." - no matter if it comes from an Obama supporter or a McCain supporter, etc.
I apologize. I didn't really mean you. I've liked your posts so far. :o
OMG you got banned? LOL what is their problem?
They're a little... paranoid, shall we say.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 06:04 PM
Nope....Red meant the guy you ignored. Had you not ignored him you'd be in the know ;)
That "guy" is a female.She is the liberal version of Anne Coulter,and NOT in a good way.
calmati
11-24-2008, 06:04 PM
I apologize. I didn't really mean you. I've liked your posts so far. :o
Thank you. :)
And Thank You to Meredith as well.
I didn't think I had overstepped any boundaries. When I signed up, I was fully aware of the atmosphere -- and have been trying to be as respectful as possible. It's how I would like to be treated if the roles were reversed.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 06:06 PM
OMG you got banned? LOL what is their problem?
Their problem is Group Think.Read Zhaan's thread about it.I dared express my more liberal view and it was POOF! Off with my head.
What they had neglected to notice was that I had quit posting there and had basically already "banned" myself.
Ikasu
11-24-2008, 06:07 PM
See how well it works for me?? I saw nothing.I heard nothing.
What's the point Mary? We quote each other like crazy here. You're going to see most of her snide posts anyways.
partypeople
11-24-2008, 06:07 PM
That "guy" is a female.She is the liberal version of Anne Coulter,and NOT in a good way.
So that's 2 unprovoked attacks by Meredith in 2 days. Surely you must be talking to someone about your anger issues.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 06:08 PM
What's the point Mary? We quote each other like crazy here. You're going to see most of her snide posts anyways.
It gives me satisfaction that I can choose to ignore any asshat that I see fit.
I have a serious problem with people that can dish it out and then accuse someone else of being unfair when they don't like the reply they get.Ignore is best for those types.I refuse to engage in word games and allow people to accuse me of saying things I never said.It does NOT matter who you backed in th election,that behavior is despicable to me and I have witnessed it on both sides.I am now choosing to ignore people who persist in game playing out of the need to fillet anyone that does not see or agree with their view.I refuse to be open season for anyone.
Folamix
11-24-2008, 06:09 PM
Don't get me going on that woman.She drives me nuts.It happened far before her endorsement of Obama.
I have never been a fan of Oprah's. I remember her from her reporter days in Baltimore
So that's 2 unprovoked attacks by Meredith in 2 days. Surely you must be talking to someone about your anger issues.
And you do remember she put you on ignore. So therefore, you're arguing with yourself.:rolleyes:
partypeople
11-24-2008, 06:13 PM
And you do remember she put you on ignore. So therefore, you're arguing with yourself.:rolleyes:
No I'm not arguing with anyone. But she saw it...you just quoted me. You're not on her ignore list.
Thanks for passing along my message.
And you do remember she put you on ignore. So therefore, you're arguing with yourself.:rolleyes:Or being a tattletail...MURRAY!!!!!:rolleyes::eek:
No I'm not arguing with anyone. But she saw it...you just quoted me. You're not on her ignore list.
Thanks for passing along my message.
And I guess you missed the part about her skipping over anything with any "asshats" quotes included.:rolleyes:
TheTaoOfBill
11-24-2008, 06:15 PM
Me??
I have been here since March. I actually left a few weeks ago and went to another forum that was started by other members from here.It was a bit too conservative for my taste,and then they started deleting and editing my posts that weren't conservative enough.So,when this opened back up,I ran back over.I was actually banned from the other place this morning.Which was a crack up.I had not posted anything there in days.I laughed so hard I spit coffee all over.
My bf is an Obama supporter so this doesn't freak me out as much as it does others.I know what I know and I believe what I believe and nothing they can say or do will change that.I actually find this rather amusing and it's been a good opportunity to see what makes them tick.Kinda like a science experiment.
I also feel the same way about you Meredith. You're my little lab mouse ;) teehee
Why is this thread even here?
Why are you here???:confused:
Is Redladybird on YOUR ignore list, because I think she was asking you, PP, if I'm not mistaken?
Horizon
11-24-2008, 06:17 PM
I also feel the same way about you Meredith. You're my little lab mouse ;) teehee
OMFG!!! LMFAO!!!!
I had this picture of us in lab coats staring each other down!!
Ikasu
11-24-2008, 06:17 PM
Is Redladybird on YOUR ignore list, because I think she was asking you, PP, if I'm not mistaken?
Yea looks like the question was to PP.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 06:20 PM
Yea looks like the question was to PP.
I thought she was asking me.There were no quotes.
partypeople
11-24-2008, 06:21 PM
Is Redladybird on YOUR ignore list, because I think she was asking you, PP, if I'm not mistaken?
No. Nobody is on my ignore list. I didn't even see the question before you pointed it out. Thank you.
Was that directed at me?
I came in this thread for the same reason I like to watch trash TV. It's like looking at a car crash- you don't want to- but you just have to look.
No. Nobody is on my ignore list. I didn't even see the question before you pointed it out. Thank you.
Was that directed at me?
I came in this thread for the same reason I like to watch trash TV. It's like looking at a car crash- you don't want to- but you just have to look.Then it might be best if you just 'look' and not 'drive over' her.;) This is an open forum now, so she can post what she wants, just like you can.
Redladybird
11-24-2008, 06:32 PM
I'm glad you can see my humor in the the idiocy of this thread.
"All Obama supporters are a joke."
"Well all McCain supporters are a joke."
"Well, I'm paper- you're glue.." :rolleyes:
Why is this thread even here?
No. I wanted to know why partypeople was here (along with other Obama supporters). They should be dancing for joy and planning their trip to Washington. Instead they are posting on HillaryClinton forum trying to convert and convince. Are they having buyers remorse maybe?
Horizon
11-24-2008, 06:35 PM
No. I wanted to know why partypeople was here (along with other Obama supporters). They should be dancing for joy and planning their trip to Washington. Instead they are posting on HillaryClinton forum trying to convert and convince. Are they having buyers remorse maybe?
Most of them are here to see what makes US tick.A very few have shown up because they think it is now open season on HRC supporters and just want to flame us and stir sh**.Ignore those ones and converse with the others.Most of them that are here are actually fairly decent and are conversing nicely.
Spang
11-24-2008, 06:35 PM
No. I wanted to know why partypeople was here (along with other Obama supporters). They should be dancing for joy and planning their trip to Washington. Instead they are posting on HillaryClinton forum trying to convert and convince. Are they having buyers remorse maybe?
I'm here to have friendly debate with people that may not think like I do. Agreeing with everyone is boring to me.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 06:37 PM
I'm here to have friendly debate with people that may not think like I do. Agreeing with everyone is boring to me.
And you are the perfect example of being one who is here for the purpose of conversing for informational purposes and NOT to cause trouble.We are thankful for that.
mesofreee
11-24-2008, 06:38 PM
I for one kinda like the new direction this forum is taking. Previously the "groupthink" mentality was a bit much and was definitely turning me off. Although most of the arguments of the Obama supporters don't hold water for me, I have adopted a wait and see attitude. Yes there a couple of Obama supporters here that are quite prolific and a bit obvious about their agenda as well. That is not to say they all have agendas or that their agendas are negative. Actually I think there are more here than we see represented on the board.
However, I do have faith in Murray. I think he is wise to take his time about bringing on new moderators.
Yes, a lot of the posting on this board right before the election was too much for me too. I never subscribe so strongly to any viewpoint that I can't adjust if the need arises.
Now that it's over, I am also taking a 'wait and see' attitude and will support this administration. So far I like what is being said. I like that $700 billion is being talked about for creating jobs. I'm a Democrat and so therefore naturally agree with Democrats. In fact I am a left leaning Democrat and really have to laugh at the commie label Obama gets sometimes. If he blended capitolism and socialism that would be fine with me. I think letting the market decide everything is absolutely crazy, free market is a theory, not fact.
The fact that "bots" are here is and are posting is great because frankly I didn't like the way it was turning into a right-wing mouthpiece. I don't mind that republicans are having their say, but the Democratic voice has been missing in all the anti-Obama activity since the convention.
It puzzles me that so many republicans with views that are opposite of what I believe Hillary's views to be, are Hillary supporters. How is that possible?
Honestly, if the anti "bot" dialogue continues, I will start complaining about it more often. This board is now meant to be an all inclusive one, and if anti-bots want an all republican board, I respectfully suggest they either blog somewhere else, or start their own.
chizzle
11-24-2008, 06:39 PM
^ LOL... to the paying taxes part. I've never met an Obama supporter that is in a higher tax liability bracket then I am, still waitting for that day.
Warren Buffet is a Barack Obama-supporter, as well as one of his economic advisers and the richest person in the world.
Yes, a lot of the posting on this board right before the election was too much for me too. I never subscribe so strongly to any viewpoint that I can't adjust if the need arises.
Now that it's over, I am also taking a 'wait and see' attitude and will support this administration. So far I like what is being said. I like that $700 billion is being talked about for creating jobs. I'm a Democrat and so therefore naturally agree with Democrats. In fact I am a left leaning Democrat and really have to laugh at the commie label Obama gets sometimes. If he blended capitolism and socialism that would be fine with me. I think letting the market decide everything is absolutely crazy, free market is a theory, not fact.
The fact that "bots" are here is and are posting is great because frankly I didn't like the way it was turning into a right-wing mouthpiece. I don't mind that republicans are having their say, but the Democratic voice has been missing in all the anti-Obama activity since the convention.
It puzzles me that so many republicans with views that are opposite of what I believe Hillary's views to be, are Hillary supporters. How is that possible?
Honestly, if the anti "bot" dialogue continues, I will start complaining about it more often. This board is now meant to be an all inclusive one, and if anti-bots want an all republican board, I respectfully suggest they either blog somewhere else, or start their own.
I like agree completely!:cool: The point of common ground is to find some. You can't do that with people who think exactly as you do. Some people haven't learned that and continue to obsess over this board.
But I do agree that not one group should be overwhelmingly incharge.
partypeople
11-24-2008, 06:45 PM
No. I wanted to know why partypeople was here (along with other Obama supporters). They should be dancing for joy and planning their trip to Washington. Instead they are posting on HillaryClinton forum trying to convert and convince. Are they having buyers remorse maybe?
No buyer's remorse. If I was experiencing buyer's remorse I would go onto a right-wing site and begin agreeing with them.
I happen to like Hillary Clinton a lot. She's a Democrat you know... as is Barack Obama. See the similarity there?
I don't know about other "Obama supporters" but- I don't dance. It's more of a head nod.
As for Washington. I don't have money for Washington. I spent it all on Chicago :)
mesofreee
11-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Most of them are here to see what makes US tick.A very few have shown up because they think it is now open season on HRC supporters and just want to flame us and stir sh**.Ignore those ones and converse with the others.Most of them that are here are actually fairly decent and are conversing nicely.
Agreed, and those of us who are true Hillary supporters and feminists should be pointing out to them exactly what happened.
I'll start -
We know how Obama won in the caususes-
check out this 30 minute preview about causus fraud.
http://www.wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/
media sexism -
YouTube - Sexism Sells -- But We're Not Buying It
There's a lot more
My personal experiences at the convention in Denver -
We were called bitches, c*nts, screamed at, told that we were exactly like what they were portraying us as in the media (bitter old crazy stupid)
We were threatened with violence (don't make us hurt you)
As he was walking past, a man said "drop dead" right in my ear. All I was doing was walking down the street holding a Hillary sign.
Someone said Hillary supporters should be raped with jackhammers
I've never been treated so badly even by republicans. It still boggles my mind that 'progressive' people would resort to personal attacks and threats of violence against members of their own party. Aren't tolerance and acceptance supposed to be hallmarks of liberalism and progressivism?
We shouted sexist pig at Chris Matthews
We made a scene
We started a dialogue about sexism
A new womens group formed and a new wave of feminism was born
We found each other
Redladybird
11-24-2008, 07:03 PM
Chris Mathews would go crazy if Hillary is officialy picked. Ha. Ha.
Chris Mathews would go crazy if Hillary is officialy picked. Ha. Ha.
LOL he's already going crazy just at the thought! He's already said it's the biggest surprise of his life or something like that! :p
deannah
11-24-2008, 07:10 PM
I
I don't know about other "Obama supporters" but- I don't dance. It's more of a head nod.
I taught my students the chicken dance last week. Does that count? :D
underpaidnurse
11-24-2008, 07:15 PM
First we'll take over HCF... then... THE WORLD!!!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif http://www.iconpimp.com/emoticon-images/free/free-07.gif
We will never go over to the dark side!!! I don't care what type of cookies you have over there! :D
We will never go over to the dark side!!! I don't care what type of cookies you have over there! :D
Or candy! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/bagelbite90/Icons/untitled12.jpg:eek:
underpaidnurse
11-24-2008, 07:27 PM
Or candy! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/bagelbite90/Icons/untitled12.jpg:eek:
Hmmmm..well now, thats a whole different story! What type of candy do they have?
(And why do i have a creepy old mans voice in my head, saying "hey little girl do you want some candy" now?)
OHHill
11-24-2008, 09:34 PM
I find it sad that both of these candidates, Hillary and Obama, are democrats and people go on and on over who won the nomination. I don't dislike either one. Their views on the issues are so similar!! But it came down to Obama/McCain, despite anything that happened in the primaries. You would think the election was Hillary/Obama instead!
I don't think living on an island of supposedly like-minded people (on a few narrow points), and divorcing oneself from all others who disagree, is a particular healthy course of action over the long-term. A monoview forum only works well in the short-term and then it starts to have "problems" shall we say.
Really, what is there to fear? Someone who disagrees with you? I think it strengthens my own views/arguments if I have to explain them to someone who disagrees with them. It's not possible to get "debate fit" by simply hanging out with people who nod, agree and say yes to everything you say. Sometimes it helps to be challenged.
I think some people are confusing debating/disagreeing with abuse. It's not abusive to say you disagree with someone or vice versa. It's not abusive to challenge the validity of a person's statements/evidence. Abuse is abuse and that is what will NOT be tolerated in here. But "banning" people because they disagree with the majority - in an effort to maintain group "cohesion" - is no longer a viable course of action for this forum.
You would think the election was Hillary/Obama instead!
I think for many people it was. And rightly so, because whoever won the Democratic nomination was pretty much destined to win the general election. There was no battle between Obama & McCain. But there most certainly was a battle between Obama & Clinton.
Oh, another thing...which doesn't make any sense at all.
Some HCF members worry about "Obama supporters" "taking over" the forum. And their response to this fear? To leave the forum! Such behavior doesn't make any sense at all. If HCF members who are pro-hillary wish for this forum to retain a strong pro-hillary presence the only way to do that is for such members to continue to post here. Leaving doesn't achieve much at all other than surrending one's power and giving in to some fear about impending invasion!
Horizon
11-24-2008, 10:07 PM
Oh, another thing...which doesn't make any sense at all.
Some HCF members worry about "Obama supporters" "taking over" the forum. And their response to this fear? To leave the forum! Such behavior doesn't make any sense at all. If HCF members who are pro-hillary wish for this forum to retain a strong pro-hillary presence the only way to do that is for such members to continue to post here. Leaving doesn't achieve much at all other than surrending one's power and giving in to some fear about impending invasion!
The more of us there are the more interesting it is.No sense in leaving the way I see it.Kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Oh, another thing...which doesn't make any sense at all.
Some HCF members worry about "Obama supporters" "taking over" the forum. And their response to this fear? To leave the forum! Such behavior doesn't make any sense at all. If HCF members who are pro-hillary wish for this forum to retain a strong pro-hillary presence the only way to do that is for such members to continue to post here. Leaving doesn't achieve much at all other than surrending one's power and giving in to some fear about impending invasion!
They're waving the white flag of surrender.:rolleyes: I couldn't resist!
Cooney
11-24-2008, 10:31 PM
I have been here a long time, and I am quite skeptical about Obama supporters here. I don't come here to defend myself, and my negative attitude toward Obama. Honestly I am not sure why any Obama supporters would want to be here. I feel no compulsion to visit any Obama sites now.
Honestly I am not sure why any Obama supporters would want to be here.
A good question.
Any responders?
TheTaoOfBill
11-24-2008, 10:41 PM
Simply put...I've become addicted to debating over this election...
joeysky18
11-24-2008, 10:42 PM
Honestly I am not sure why any Obama supporters would want to be here.
Let's hear.
Simply put...I've become addicted to debating over this election...
That will suffice as an answer.
But why here in particular are you hanging out?
Is it interest in the opportunity of being able to leave your pro-Obama mark on a previously 100% nobama zone?
mjno7777
11-24-2008, 10:52 PM
Believe me,they are still the minority here.There are less than a dozen of them.It seems like more because they are very prolific posters and we are not used to them.We have far more conservative and HRC supporters here.
Good to know, it is HRC in the majority. But, the BO supporters are "expansive" so that is why it feels like a BO forum rather than HRC.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 10:54 PM
Good to know, it is HRC in the majority. But, the BO supporters are "expansive" so that is why it feels like a BO forum rather than HRC.
I prefer to say they are "prolific". They post.A lot.So it looks like far more than there actually are.
Some of them are quite nice actually,and I have had several pleasant conversations with them.
Good to know, it is HRC in the majority. But, the BO supporters are "expansive" so that is why it feels like a BO forum rather than HRC.
The more the HC people post, the less "exepansive" the BO crew will seem.
It's simple! ;)
joeysky18
11-24-2008, 11:00 PM
Is it interest in the opportunity of being able to leave your pro-Obama mark on a previously 100% nobama zone?
Murray, first I apologise if the following are deemed to be out of the line. But these 2 explanation came to my mind.
1. Dogs urinate to mark the territory.
2. Some men believe they can change lesbians to striaght if those ladies will have sex with them.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 11:01 PM
murray, first i apologise if the following are deemed to be out of the line. But these 2 explanation came to my mind.
1. Dogs urinate to mark the territory.
2. Some men believe they can change lesbians to striaght if those ladies will have sex with them.
roflmfao!!!!
Murray, first I apologise if the following are deemed to be out of the line. But these 2 explanation came to my mind.
1. Dogs urinate to mark the territory.
2. Some men believe they can change lesbians to striaght if those ladies will have sex with them.
Damn Joey...say what you really think!;):)
Murray, first I apologise if the following are deemed to be out of the line. But these 2 explanation came to my mind.
1. Dogs urinate to mark the territory.
2. Some men believe they can change lesbians to striaght if those ladies will have sex with them.
Perhaps my question should have been more eloquently phrased?! :eek:
Tague
11-24-2008, 11:09 PM
No. I wanted to know why partypeople was here (along with other Obama supporters). They should be dancing for joy and planning their trip to Washington. Instead they are posting on HillaryClinton forum trying to convert and convince. Are they having buyers remorse maybe?
Actually a really good question
They should be dancing for joy and planning their trip to Washington. Instead they are posting on HillaryClinton forum trying to convert and convince. Are they having buyers remorse maybe?
They may not all be trying to "convert & convince" but I think it's reasonable to ask/question why they would want to post here?
joeysky18
11-24-2008, 11:15 PM
I think it's reasonable to ask/question why they would want to post here?
I also want to hear the answer.
Horizon
11-24-2008, 11:16 PM
Again,the silence is deafening.
Again,the silence is deafening.
*goes to find some crickets*
He's still beating his head against a wall regarding the BC story...:p
hillary4change
11-24-2008, 11:52 PM
Murray, first I apologise if the following are deemed to be out of the line. But these 2 explanation came to my mind.
1. Dogs urinate to mark the territory.
2. Some men believe they can change lesbians to striaght if those ladies will have sex with them.
You always make me laugh!
I also must say that you have always had a way of putting things in its most basic terms! I love that!
I believe the psychology is spot on though
joeysky18
11-24-2008, 11:56 PM
You always make me laugh!
I also must say that you have always had a way of putting things in its most basic terms! I love that!
I believe the psychology is spot on though
I'm glad you enjoy it. I have an inspiration from time to time. :)
Lealy
11-25-2008, 01:11 AM
Heh, that makes me think of the saying "If you're in your 20s and you're not a Democrat, you have no heart. If you're in your 40s and you're not a Republican, you have no brain." Well, I'm only in my 30s, but I have gotten progressively MORE liberal over the years. So I'm not sure what that makes me! :D
Not yet 40!:D
Spang
11-25-2008, 08:10 AM
Honestly I am not sure why any Obama supporters would want to be here.
I'm here to have friendly debate with people that may not think like I do. Why here? There are a lot of people within this community who don't think like I do and I like that.
partypeople
11-25-2008, 10:31 AM
I have been here a long time, and I am quite skeptical about Obama supporters here. I don't come here to defend myself, and my negative attitude toward Obama. Honestly I am not sure why any Obama supporters would want to be here. I feel no compulsion to visit any Obama sites now.
Because Hillary and Obama are both Democrats, she's poised to be the next secretary of state- this forum is popular- etc.. Why wouldn't a Democrat be on a Hillary Clinton forum?
What is an "obama site?" Is that just a left-leaning site?
You should ask why Republicans would be on Hillary Clinton forum. That is much more logical.
Cleverboy
11-25-2008, 10:58 AM
Because Hillary and Obama are both Democrats, she's poised to be the next secretary of state- this forum is popular- etc.. Why wouldn't a Democrat be on a Hillary Clinton forum?If said Democrat's SOLE purpose of being on a Hillary Clinton forum, is to exalt another politician, it would probably be a bad idea. You should ask why Republicans would be on Hillary Clinton forum. That is much more logical. Hillary's views have always been more conservative, even than Bill's. She grew up in a Republican household, unlike Obama. In high school, she was a member of a "Young Republicans" group. As a good friend of John McCain, I think its only natural that she might find Republican supporters. It would be much different if she'd been the top of the ticket though.
~ CB
partypeople
11-25-2008, 11:15 AM
If said Democrat's SOLE purpose of being on a Hillary Clinton forum, is to exalt another politician, it would probably be a bad idea. Hillary's views have always been more conservative, even than Bill's. She grew up in a Republican household, unlike Obama. In high school, she was a member of a "Young Republicans" group. As a good friend of John McCain, I think its only natural that she might find Republican supporters. It would be much different if she'd been the top of the ticket though.
~ CB
Oh, now I see why Republicans hated her so much. Because she was so much like them. And that's why they (right-wing operative Roger Stone) started C.U.N.T. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/24/welcome-to-the-gutter-ri_n_83062.html) Because they totally share a common ground.
Cleverboy
11-25-2008, 11:40 AM
Oh, now I see why Republicans hated her so much. Because she was so much like them. And that's why they (right-wing operative Roger Stone) started *.*.*.*. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/24/welcome-to-the-gutter-ri_n_83062.html) Because they totally share a common ground. The instinct to VILIFY someone, is almost inherent in politics... a thankless job of salesmanship, where the product is YOU. Once you have people willing to look PAST the hailstorm of misrepresentations and spin-control, they'll see what they want to see. Republicans have been enraged themselves at her statement (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/03261992.html): "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life." like they have to Michelle Obama's (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/49244.html) "--for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country" statement.
While Obama tried not to repeat history, by having his wife crucified in the public square, like Clinton was during Bill's run, he's only been marginally successful, but she made somewhat of a comeback. It moves from personally to political so fluidly, its hard to keep things straight. In the end, you can't let political operators divorce you from who you are. Clinton knows who she is. She knows her opinions on issues. She knows her history. People will spin it how they will, and she's entitled to set the record straight.
~ CB
Alces95
11-25-2008, 11:42 AM
SO why am I here?
A better question would be why did I lurk here since May...
I lurk here and post a few times because I respected what dialogue I used to see. Last year, I really was not a fan of Hillary's. I was worried about the concept of the "Bush/Clinton" legacy and whether or not she would be able to bring Republicans with Democrats to have a better government. I saw her as someone who was already hated by half of the country. I was picking the candidate who would best remove the fissure between cultures and parties. I was looking for something different.
By lurking here, I learned to respect Hillary more. I won't lie, I liked the site better when it was a pro-Hillary rather than just anti-Obama platform. While people always tend to be against an opponant; lately some of the attacks have been off the deep end. That's OK, its takes all kinds.
Full disclosure, I voted for McCain in an early Primary. I voted for Obama in the GE. I did see a change in McCain when he got the nod; he wasn't the maverick I voted for in January or 2000 for that matter. I also wasn't a Palin fan, but I hesitate to say that here!
In any rate, thats why I am here. I have learned a lot and hope to conitue to do so. I do believe in "Country First." That's why I hope BO does a great job. I hope those of you who do not like him now would accept success if it happened. If he doesn't, and in this climate it will be obvious, we will know what to do.
Redladybird
11-25-2008, 12:04 PM
I find it sad that both of these candidates, Hillary and Obama, are democrats and people go on and on over who won the nomination. I don't dislike either one. Their views on the issues are so similar!! But it came down to Obama/McCain, despite anything that happened in the primaries. You would think the election was Hillary/Obama instead!
I don't think it's a good idea to be treated poorly and just accept it. Otherwise it will be done over and over again. Sexism, media bias, etc will not be ignored/overlooked. Not on my watch. Obama did not win legitamately. I used to like Cambell Brown and Rachel Maddow along with many others untill they went crazy. Don't get me started on Tina Fey. I still only watch Fox. I probably would have liked Obama too but would have thought he lacked experience.
Redladybird
11-25-2008, 12:16 PM
Murray, first I apologise if the following are deemed to be out of the line. But these 2 explanation came to my mind.
1. Dogs urinate to mark the territory.
2. Some men believe they can change lesbians to striaght if those ladies will have sex with them.
Very funny and the comparison makes sense to me.
I'm here to have friendly debate with people that may not think like I do. Why here? There are a lot of people within this community who don't think like I do and I like that.
Diversity is a good thing when it doesn't lead to eternal conflict.
I share some of your motivations for being here.
OHHill
11-26-2008, 10:32 PM
Yes, I will reply. Some Obama supporters are here because not all of us hate Hillary. And some of us felt Obama was the better choice for president over McCain. Obama was the democratic candidate whose views on the issues were more in alignment with some of us than McCains. I would say Hillary supported Obama over McCain, since she might have a place in his cabinet?
Yes, I will reply. Some Obama supporters are here because not all of us hate Hillary. And some of us felt Obama was the better choice for president over McCain. Obama was the democratic candidate whose views on the issues were more in alignment with some of us than McCains. I would say Hillary supported Obama over McCain, since she might have a place in his cabinet?
Sounds very logical to me! ;)
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