Want to trash HCF? Do so here! [Archive]

CGP

11-25-2008, 03:51 AM

I know there are plenty keen on trashing HCF for its revised direction. Inclusivity is, apparently, not a noble goal.

So, rather than trashing HCF elsehwere (which more than a few are doing), why not just trash it here in this forum so at least some of the more wild accusations made against HCF can be directly challenged?

Go right ahead in this thread - share your shock, horror & loathing at the new direction of HCF if that's how you see it. At least have the courage to be direct about your thoughts/opinions/feelings rather than behaving one way elsewhere and another way here at HCF.

It's funny - before November 4, HCF was trashed often by Obama-supporting forums. Now it's trashed by those who remain vehemently anti-Obama. Can't win! :rolleyes:

ZY123

11-25-2008, 03:55 AM

It's getting beyond ridiculous. Backstabbing, condescending, and vile.

Not sure how appropriate this image is but I thought it was cute:

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/trash.jpg

ImmaSlave4U

11-25-2008, 03:57 AM

I thought they built an entire 'Village' for this?

VotingHillary

11-25-2008, 03:57 AM

I know there are plenty keen on trashing HCF for its revised direction. Inclusivity is, apparently, not a noble goal.

So, rather than trashing HCF elsehwere (which more than a few are doing), why not just trash it here in this forum?

Go right ahead in this thread - share your shock, horror & loathing at the new direction of HCF if that's how you see it. At least have the courage to be direct about your thoughts/opinions/feelings rather than behaving one way elsewhere and another way here at HCF.

It's funny - before November 4, HCF was trashed often by Obama-supporting forums. Now it's trashed by those who remain vehemently anti-Obama. Can't win! :rolleyes:

Here is my thought on this...go to ANOTHER OF THE MULTITUDE OF SITES that don't support this site and take your trash there...PUMA IS DONE WITH YOU! This was a one-shot deal!

ZY123

11-25-2008, 04:01 AM

Here is my thought on this...go to ANOTHER OF THE MULTITUDE OF SITES that don't support this site and take your trash there...PUMA IS DONE WITH YOU! This was a one-shot deal!

That would be a rational and logical action.

Ikasu

11-25-2008, 04:06 AM

ZY123

11-25-2008, 04:08 AM

I got nothing bad to say. I love this forum. I would like to see more membership though, more Hillary supporters to replace the old ones. Even conservatives. Why not? The frequency of posts has gotten pretty slow.

Personally I'd rather have a site with a small membership of honest and quality members.

I'm starting to wonder if there are any real Hillary supporters or if everyone had an agenda....seriously.

Ikasu

11-25-2008, 04:10 AM

Personally I'd rather have a site with a small membership of honest and quality members.

I'm starting to wonder if there are any real Hillary supporters or if everyone had an agenda....seriously.

Maybe it was as Hillary said, "were you in this just for me?"

CGP

11-25-2008, 04:10 AM

I got nothing bad to say. I love this forum. I would like to see more membership though, more Hillary supporters to replace the old ones. Even conservatives. Why not? The frequency of posts has gotten pretty slow.

I think closing for a week obviously didn't help with that.

But forums go through all kinds of ups/downs in terms of traffic.

And I'd rather feel comfortable with the direction of the forum and it have lower traffic, than be uncomortable with the direction of the forum and it have higher traffic. HCF was quite popular before but was it so for good reasons? I don't know. Changing the direction of the forum was never going to be a "winning" decision with the previous mix of HCF participants & followers.

Moving in a more moderate/middle-ground direction is probably less controversial, and less likely to attract attention, therefore less site traffic.

Ikasu

11-25-2008, 04:12 AM

I think closing for a week obviously didn't help with that.

But forums go through all kinds of ups/downs in terms of traffic.

And I'd rather feel comfortable with the direction of the forum and it have lower traffic, than be uncomortable with the direction of the forum and it have higher traffic. HCF was quite popular before but was it so for good reasons? I don't know. Changing the direction of the forum was never going to be a "winning" decision with the previous mix of HCF participants & followers.

Yea, I think you're right. I was so used to this forum being literally 24/7.

CGP

11-25-2008, 04:16 AM

Yea, I think you're right. I was so used to this forum being literally 24/7.

Yes, I think some were addicted to the old version of HCF and went through some withdrawal went it "changed" (and closed). Hence, some of the negative reactions...But addiction is not a good thing!

ZY123

11-25-2008, 04:24 AM

*crickets*

SKR01

11-25-2008, 04:29 AM

CGP

11-25-2008, 04:33 AM

Perhaps some posters are just taking a break or are simply getting ready for the holidays and will be back when they are able. There's always a lot of intensity around major events like elections and a lull afterwards.

That would apply to some.

But, a large chunk of people left en masse and are not likely to return in any capacity.

Donald

11-25-2008, 06:56 AM

That would apply to some.

But, a large chunk of people left en masse and are not likely to return in any capacity.

Well, I think the forum will be better off if some people do not return. You can't claim to support Hillary on one hand and then not on the other. I suspect thier is a bigger reason that was not addressed as to why people were so adament against Obama. My reasons were I supported Hillary, and I thought the media gave him a free pass. Over all, he represents all I stand for..so I am not unhappy that he won.

I think many want this to be an Obama bashing site....and that helps no one. I am sure those bloggers will find a home elsewhere. The change in direction for this forum truly represents Hillary Clinton and I am glad to see the change.
I admit...I got caught up in the Obama drama....but lets move on.

xfiles

11-25-2008, 06:59 AM

Chalk it up to the clique' mentality and rabid hate for Obama.

I fall into the latter category and do not intend to back down in my anti-support of him.

I have my own forum with a pretty large membership and not high traffic but it is a place where people can vent and do pretty much what they like regarding anti-Obama information and pro-Palin, Hillary and others without debating with Obama supporters.

I think many (including me) were in shock the nite of the election when you suddenly announced a new direction, etc. Maybe if you had gone about it more slowly and prepared people for what you wanted, it would have worked out better. Who knows.

At Hillary's village there is a core group from this forum who have bonded (I call it a clique') and more power to them.

I post over there also but don't feel all that welcomed from the group in power. But I do agree with most of their agenda re: pro Hillary & anti-Obama, pro-women, etc.

So be it. Human nature is to try to make yourself look better by criticizing others. It is fun and games for many and it makes for a further bond (maybe not necessarily a healthy one) but a bond nonetheless.

I would have preferred this forum to have stayed as it was pretty much the months before the election, but I'm always up for a challenge and like to hear both sides so I can keep myself informed.

When Bush was selected, I was so angry I vowed NEVER to watch him but that was pretty difficult to do if I wanted to get the news. Then I began to think, why not keep an eye on the SOB so I can be informed at least.

So, while I mellowed on Bush, I have never called him President Bush. I'm sure it will be similar with Obama.

But some people have to get totally away from Obama and the wish at Hillary's Village I think may be to promote women's issues and issues in government which they can concentrate on fully in that environment.

This forum, though has always been "home". So I will stick around and see how things develop. That's only fair.

joeysky18

11-25-2008, 07:09 AM

I know there are plenty keen on trashing HCF for its revised direction.

I'm very sorry you have to go throught this experience Murray.

In my view, if I disagree with any forum direction, I would just leave and find another place that suit my interest. There is no need for trashing. It's unfair and unprofessional. I can understand that for sometimes it'ss not pleasant to read a passive-agressive comments from new visitors. And old members might find HV more relaxing which I can understand that. I also understand that the complains are probably caused by disappointment. But any comments should be said to you directly and leave it as that. I don't like reading obnoxious comments (from anyone) as well, but I understand a bigger goal that you want to achieve, and I understand that this is one of the adjusting process that the forum has to go through.

I remember there was some serious dissatisfaction, which I never understand, when the forum opened up to the conservative posters in the general election. Do you remember that? The reaction was quite emotional. You were very patient and went into great length trying to understand their unhappiness. And I do not think it is practical if you have to go through that exercise everytime you want to change something about the forum. Even if you decide to close it down again tomorrow because if you have enough of it, I won't complain. It's your forum anyway.

I wish we human will be more detached from the things we hold dearly.

Sigh........

This bickering is making it very uncomfortable for me to post at both sites. And I might have to make a decision about my visit.

Another sigh..........

A metamorphosis is always dramatic and painful. Don't be discourage by the complains. Keep going Murray. There is nothing wrong with what you are trying to achieve.

sojourner

11-25-2008, 11:45 AM

Yes, I think some were addicted to the old version of HCF and went through some withdrawal went it "changed" (and closed). Hence, some of the negative reactions...But addiction is not a good thing!

Also this is probably a slow time for any website that focuses on politics. The election is over, the new administration has not taken over, many people are thinking about the holidays.

foxyladi

11-25-2008, 11:50 AM

sojourner

11-25-2008, 12:07 PM

I like it here. I like the many points of view posted. I like seeing articles posted from sites I seldom visit and some I have never heard of. It’s one stop shopping.

I know you lost a lot of people, but I came here, with no hidden agenda, because of the new direction you were taking. I think many others will as well.

It was a war zone here for a while and maybe I am being overly optimistic but I believe that once the dust settles this site will be bigger and better than ever and many of the old members will return.

BooskerD

11-25-2008, 12:41 PM

In order for you to be seeing these uncharitable comments about HCF, you are either lurking on other sites and viewing these posts, or friends of yours are informing you of the comments.

I've discovered that simply not looking at a post I know will irritate me is the best answer. I put people on ignore and avoid the posts they initiate. For you, maybe just not visiting these other sites would be helpful.

If friends are informing you of what's being said, then I would question the veracity of their friendship. Real friends don't relay hurtful information.

For me, I've posted here a couple of times since the Obama supporters were allowed in. It's really not the same. I will never respect or trust Obama, nor harbor anything but complete antipathy for him. It's a real drag to have his supporters chastising us for not "giving him a chance" after all we witnessed during the election. Basically, this place doesn't feel like home any longer. I wouldn't say I was "addicted" to this site, but it was nice to have a place where we could be heard- about the only place Hillary supporters could be heard.
It's like having one gay bar in town, one place you can be yourself. Now, imagine that while there are umpteen billion straight bars in town, straight couples just have to come into the gay bar and gawk. Not only do they gawk, they preach. That's what this feels like.

Horizon

11-25-2008, 12:53 PM

Hey,I will admit to being VERY unhappy with Murray AND this forum in the week after the election.Myself and a couple of others did nothing but give Murray a migraine I think.Then he closed.Now,I am more aware that nothing is really as it seems,and there is always a "backstory" lurking that you may not know of.I found out the hard way and now I am here.I am fortunate that Murray must have a large capacity for forgiveness.I wouldn't have let me back!
And here I am,happy to be here and also banned from The Village.
I am thankful that Murray persevered and that so many of us have come back and/or stayed.If those that are so unhappy here keep posting,WTF is their problem? Go away,you have a "new" place to be,stay there,we don't need you.;)

BooskerD

11-25-2008, 01:02 PM

Horizon

11-25-2008, 01:05 PM

Well, I could be wrong, but I detected a bit of unhappiness on Murray's part concerning the mass exodus of members. Certainly, he started this thread for some feed-back, yes?

Feed back all you want,I was just asking a simple question to those that claim this is so horrible.Why stay? If something irritates you as bad as this apparently does,wtf is the point?Wouldn't your time be better spent someplace you are happier at and feel more comfortable?

xfiles

11-25-2008, 01:13 PM

Why were you banned? PM me please if you don't want to publically say so.

Hey,I will admit to being VERY unhappy with Murray AND this forum in the week after the election.Myself and a couple of others did nothing but give Murray a migraine I think.Then he closed.Now,I am more aware that nothing is really as it seems,and there is always a "backstory" lurking that you may not know of.I found out the hard way and now I am here.I am fortunate that Murray must have a large capacity for forgiveness.I wouldn't have let me back!
And here I am,happy to be here and also banned from The Village.
I am thankful that Murray persevered and that so many of us have come back and/or stayed.If those that are so unhappy here keep posting,WTF is their problem? Go away,you have a "new" place to be,stay there,we don't need you.;)

ZY123

11-25-2008, 01:32 PM

If friends are informing you of what's being said, then I would question the veracity of their friendship. Real friends don't relay hurtful information.

.

Real friends don't backstab, talk down a person, call them crazy unstable, call them liars, out and out lie about them, and basically defame them on the internet. When people do that to me my friends tell me about it (which they have and I've read it all - all lies (someone has actually been saving the lies so they can re-read read them and share with friends)). And at this point, I'm talking about the lies, backstabbing and BS about me - what was said about me was nothing compared to how this site, its members and its owner have been trashed - threads were dedicated to trashing the owner and this site. As for me, they were never nice to me so its not as bad (though up until now I didn't know I was actually hated to this extent) - others that they are trashing they claimed at one point to admire and respect (in the case of the admin) and to be friends with. To make it worse, some trash the site over there and then come here and post as if nothing is wrong - that is deceptive and not honest and if this were my site and it was my supposed friends doing it I would want to know. Most people would prefer not to be treated that way behind their back. If I see my friends trashed behind their back - I will tell them every time because they deserve to know what their "friends" are saying. Period. I think that kind of behavior is unacceptable and anyone I deem my friend I see doing it will no longer be after that.

Just last night I saw a post from a member here claiming she will listen to the Obama supporters (and again I am NOT an Obama supporter - I intend to watch him closely and call him out when he starts making mistakes - I DO NOT think he was the best option but things are what that are) - it was a very nice post and I genuinely thought - wow that's nice. Then I look over there and see a post from the same member about how we are all clueless morons and "bots" here and how she would never post with kool aid drinkers. The person has even saved threads where members were trashed that she wants to share with the group over there for a good laugh.

The thread was started so the owner of the board could defend the accusations made and possibly debunk the ones that are lies - its a place to trash right to Admin's face rather than behind his back. Perhaps if he can confront the lies directly and respond to them it will stop (though I find that optimistic and the pessimist in me doubts it will work I think it's worth trying).

ZY123

11-25-2008, 01:35 PM

Chalk it up to the clique' mentality and rabid hate for Obama.

I fall into the latter category and do not intend to back down in my anti-support of him.

At Hillary's village there is a core group from this forum who have bonded (I call it a clique') and more power to them.

.................

I post over there also but don't feel all that welcomed from the group in power. But I do agree with most of their agenda re: pro Hillary & anti-Obama, pro-women, etc.

So be it. Human nature is to try to make yourself look better by criticizing others. It is fun and games for many and it makes for a further bond (maybe not necessarily a healthy one) but a bond nonetheless.

I would have preferred this forum to have stayed as it was pretty much the months before the election, but I'm always up for a challenge and like to hear both sides so I can keep myself informed.

When Bush was selected, I was so angry I vowed NEVER to watch him but that was pretty difficult to do if I wanted to get the news. Then I began to think, why not keep an eye on the SOB so I can be informed at least.

So, while I mellowed on Bush, I have never called him President Bush. I'm sure it will be similar with Obama.

...............................

This forum, though has always been "home". So I will stick around and see how things develop. That's only fair.

While I may not agree with all of this, I like your approach and attitude and agree with a lot of your points.

Kaylin

11-25-2008, 01:36 PM

Aria

11-25-2008, 01:40 PM

I got nothing bad to say. I love this forum. I would like to see more membership though, more Hillary supporters to replace the old ones. Even conservatives. Why not? The frequency of posts has gotten pretty slow.

I think membership will gradually pick up as the direction - and name - of the forum becomes clear and known. Besides, it's also Thanksgiving time - people are busy and/or traveling so it might be unusually slow this week. I'd look for things to pick up some after Hillary and other cabinet members become official and Obama's policy directions become clearer.

Den2006

11-25-2008, 01:42 PM

I would think just by it's very nature a more open forum would be more rough and tumble. We shared a common enemy for a while and that brought a common theme. I'd hate to see this fourm fold again there have been and are so many insightful people on here, researchers we need to keep an eye on what's happening with our government and our dollars. People with the anbition to actually do something about things that are happening and seek reform. I'm glad this fourm is back open and hope it stays open.

Folamix

11-25-2008, 01:56 PM

both groups are needed.

there are enough questions about Obama, his flip-flopping positions, his tactics, the obscene amount of money he has access to (and where it may be coming from) that Obama-watchdog groups are important. also, lord knows the media isn't going to do it.

but I re-joined this group because it's "common ground" direction dovetails with an issue of mine that goes back way farther than Obama or any one politician, and that's the ideological polarization of America, promoted by the wing-nut factions in both major parties. this has left the largest voting block, 40% of Americans who are either center-right or center-left--aka THE MAJORITY--without true representation. we're only lied or pandered to every four years for our votes. the only way to combat this is to participate in discussions where all views are encouraged, and where we can become activist on issues we agree on.

I agree to a certain extent. The forum has shifted its focus somewhat to a more all inclusive environment. The other sites, although they may be inclusive to a certain extent, they are definitely anti-Obama. I rejoined this site because it was more in line with my attitude at this time. I have adopted a wait and see attitude with Obama. On those other sites, I detected some of the things that I didn't like on HCF before. Actually I have had a couple of my threads deleted. Why I don't know; it doesn't really matter. I am not suddenly an Obama supporter as a lot of us on this site have been accused of being but, at least to me, some of the viewpoints expressed before were extreme so I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Politics sometimes can be a dirty game and folks play to win. Now that he has "won", let's see how he handles it.

SoCal4Hillary

11-25-2008, 02:28 PM

It's funny - before November 4, HCF was trashed often by Obama-supporting forums. Now it's trashed by those who remain vehemently anti-Obama. Can't win! :rolleyes:Whoa! Hold on a minute. Not ALL of us who remain vehemently anti-Obama are trashing HCF. :D

You're right about the rest, though. And when some of us have tried to defend HCF on, *cough*, other forums...we've been summarily booted. I doubt those forums' members will show up here to repeat what they've said elsewhere...but you never know.

ZY123

11-25-2008, 02:38 PM

Whoa! Hold on a minute. Not ALL of us who remain vehemently anti-Obama are trashing HCF. :D

You're right about the rest, though. And when some of us have tried to defend HCF on, *cough*, other forums...we've been summarily booted. I doubt those forums' members will show up here to repeat what they've said elsewhere...but you never know.

Definitely not all....and everyone who stood up against it shows great character and strength of character IMO (that's a compliment to you btw. ;))

In defense of some (definitely not all) of the other forums...any HCF trashing threads were locked or removed...though I know at least one forum where the trashing threads are not only not removed but encouraged and participated in by most.

LadyLazarus

11-25-2008, 02:40 PM

I have to admit, I was never a big poster on this forum, although I viewed and read posts at least once a day, because of the clear “group-think” mentality that was developing. Members on this forum would rail against “Obots” and then act and think in ways that were clearly just as robotic as those they were critiquing.

Again, I wasn’t a huge poster, but I have found it really sad and disappointing that many ex-members of this site chose to start another site and drain the membership base that Murray essentially built. I’m not saying he did it alone. I know he had plenty of help. But I do believe that the forum’s spirit and intent were essentially his creation. It seems kind of like a betrayal to me, if that’s possible.

Yes, I don’t know what went on behind the scenes and many have said it got really ugly here on election night, but I simply don’t understand why those who hate Obama are *afraid* to debate his supporters? I don’t see why they can’t stand to share a forum with them, and I wonder what they hope to accomplish sitting in a small echo chamber, as someone else put it, in which they exert no influence upon anyone but themselves. It’s just incredibly, incredibly irrational, unhealthy, and counter-productive. If your ideas are sound ones, they will hold up to the scrutiny that the free competition of ideas provides. And if you do have good ideas, you should put them into the marketplace of ideas so that others have the chance of hearing them and possibly adopting them. Good debate actually works to change people’s minds, but how can that happen if people are arguing only one side of a point?

xfiles

11-25-2008, 02:49 PM

The group think that was exhibited here during the primaries and election campaign was based on truths and trying to get the word out about the fraud Obama. THAT is very different than the group think propaganda spewed by Obama supporters, the MSM heavily favoring Obama and many other things that went on.

We basically agreed with each other and researched to try to get the word out about the truth of Obama.

I have to admit, I was never a big poster on this forum, although I viewed and read posts at least once a day, because of the clear “group-think” mentality that was developing. Members on this forum would rail against “Obots” and then act and think in ways that were clearly just as robotic as those they were critiquing.

Again, I wasn’t a huge poster, but I have found it really sad and disappointing that many ex-members of this site chose to start another site and drain the membership base that Murray essentially built. I’m not saying he did it alone. I know he had plenty of help. But I do believe that the forum’s spirit and intent were essentially his creation. It seems kind of like a betrayal to me, if that’s possible.

Yes, I don’t know what went on behind the scenes and many have said it got really ugly here on election night, but I simply don’t understand why those who hate Obama are *afraid* to debate his supporters? I don’t see why they can’t stand to share a forum with them, and I wonder what they hope to accomplish sitting in a small echo chamber, as someone else put it, in which they exert no influence upon anyone but themselves. It’s just incredibly, incredibly irrational, unhealthy, and counter-productive. If your ideas are sound ones, they will hold up to the scrutiny that the free competition of ideas provides. And if you do have good ideas, you should put them into the marketplace of ideas so that others have the chance of hearing them and possibly adopting them. Good debate actually works to change people’s minds, but how can that happen if people are arguing only one side of a point?

LadyLazarus

11-25-2008, 02:55 PM

We basically agreed with each other and researched to try to get the word out about the truth of Obama.

Great point. And i see the value of that and not wanting to be bashed by Obama supporters, but it seems that in creating a safe haven for Hillary Supporters we lost opportunities to debate with those on the fence or those committed to Obama and get them to understand our position. Yes, I know that's not likely (I'm not that optimistic), but I do think that our support of Hillary is based upon sound, rational thinking and can really stand up in the marketplace of ideas.

So I hope you and others will continue to post here and hold down the fort for Hillary! :D

ZY123

11-25-2008, 02:59 PM

AnnaB

11-25-2008, 03:22 PM

shenanigans

11-25-2008, 06:43 PM

I really don't have much to complain about. I don't post much but read here a few times a day. The only thing that pissed me off was closing the forum down.

Yeah, group think happens, but you also have to let that train of thought derail on its own. It will. This forum is full of intelligent, free thinking people, we'll figure it out for ourselves.

Also, I want it to remain HCF. That's what it was and always should be. Hillary is still very relevant. And that's what drew us all here.

And on a snarky note, I don't miss PUMA's. They were kinda getting on my nerves,. I understood the concept and why it was formed, but it surely turned into a beast.

RE:

11-25-2008, 07:47 PM

And on a snarky note, I don't miss PUMA's. They were kinda getting on my nerves,. I understood the concept and why it was formed, but it surely turned into a beast.
I personally love being a PUMA, but as Murray says...there are extremists in most every group.;):)

CGP

11-25-2008, 08:30 PM

Some very interesting responses. Who needs TV when can I read about forum dramas!? ;)

RE:

11-25-2008, 09:22 PM

Some very interesting responses. Who needs TV when can I read about forum dramas!? ;)You got that right!! HA! You can be really funny Murray....dry/sarcastic, but funny!

underpaidnurse

11-25-2008, 09:28 PM

Alright, I'll admit I've been "pouting". I felt like I returned here on November 5th as I had been doing since May for comfort and inspiration when the chips were down, and the locks had been changed!

I think that it's necessary to embrace change, otherwise you break. But to suddenly go along with powers that be, after ALL we discussed in this forum was the "unkindest cut of all".

Having said that, I recognize the transition at HCF to open discussion among different political philosophies and respect it.

Lastly, I refuse to bash this forum, I've had too many good times, made many great friends and still, despite it all have a high regard for it's creator.

I agree..I stomped my feet and held my breath and pouted, and in anger might have said some very not so nice things...but time has passed and things have calmed and things that were not known have come to light and the old adage of two sides to everything came and slapped me in the face. So, I'm back to post and refuse to bash anything..i was one of the HV's that was hurt when I read stuff about us from some people on here..but thats because there were a lot of us caught in the middle and didn't have any idea of what underlying things were truly going on.

So, me having diarrhea of an angry mouth, I apolgize for.

SoCal4Hillary

11-25-2008, 09:33 PM

Definitely not all....and everyone who stood up against it shows great character and strength of character IMO (that's a compliment to you btw. ;))Thanks. :)
though I know at least one forum where the trashing threads are not only not removed but encouraged and participated in by most.Yep, that would be the one that summarily booted me for defending Murray. :rolleyes:

Meg

11-25-2008, 09:37 PM

Yep, that would be the one that summarily booted me for defending Murray. :rolleyes:

Did they really?;) I think a few of us can join that club!:p

Sorry, but I'll call them out... A lot of the people at HV are not good people and it would be nice if they could act like mature adults and state their probelms to people not behind their backs like children.:rolleyes: But hey! What would I know.:rolleyes:

I have not and will not trash this site, it's owner or any of the members who have been honest and repectful. Everyone else though....:rolleyes:

BooskerD

11-25-2008, 09:51 PM

Real friends don't backstab, talk down a person, call them crazy unstable, call them liars, out and out lie about them, and basically defame them on the internet. When people do that to me my friends tell me about it (which they have and I've read it all - all lies (someone has actually been saving the lies so they can re-read read them and share with friends)). And at this point, I'm talking about the lies, backstabbing and BS about me - what was said about me was nothing compared to how this site, its members and its owner have been trashed - threads were dedicated to trashing the owner and this site. As for me, they were never nice to me so its not as bad (though up until now I didn't know I was actually hated to this extent) - others that they are trashing they claimed at one point to admire and respect (in the case of the admin) and to be friends with. To make it worse, some trash the site over there and then come here and post as if nothing is wrong - that is deceptive and not honest and if this were my site and it was my supposed friends doing it I would want to know. Most people would prefer not to be treated that way behind their back. If I see my friends trashed behind their back - I will tell them every time because they deserve to know what their "friends" are saying. Period. I think that kind of behavior is unacceptable and anyone I deem my friend I see doing it will no longer be after that.

Just last night I saw a post from a member here claiming she will listen to the Obama supporters (and again I am NOT an Obama supporter - I intend to watch him closely and call him out when he starts making mistakes - I DO NOT think he was the best option but things are what that are) - it was a very nice post and I genuinely thought - wow that's nice. Then I look over there and see a post from the same member about how we are all clueless morons and "bots" here and how she would never post with kool aid drinkers. The person has even saved threads where members were trashed that she wants to share with the group over there for a good laugh.

The thread was started so the owner of the board could defend the accusations made and possibly debunk the ones that are lies - its a place to trash right to Admin's face rather than behind his back. Perhaps if he can confront the lies directly and respond to them it will stop (though I find that optimistic and the pessimist in me doubts it will work I think it's worth trying).

Testy, aren't we? Personally, I've defended Murray in one of those "WTF happened to HCF threads". This place was going way overboard with illiterate idiots and their conspiracy theories. There is one site I visit that doesn't have any of those folks, and I'm glad of it.

Still, I miss the old days, before all the wack jobs arrived, and before we had to contend with Obama supporters trying to convert us. Don't worry, I don't thrive on discord the way some of you do. You won't be seeing a lot of me here.

CGP

11-25-2008, 09:56 PM

I don't thrive on discord the way some of you do.

I think a lot of humans/people thrive on conflict - or at least are intrigued/impacted by it. Conflict is not necessarily a bad thing, only when poeple get hurt unnecessarily by it. I think conflict can exist between people/groups without any major damage being caused. From some views, confict is the fundamental drive towards achieving CHANGE.

(On a less serious note, I must admit that the Jerry Springer Show is one of my favorite all time TV shows! :eek:)

BooskerD

11-25-2008, 10:00 PM

(On a less serious note, I must admit that the Jerry Springer Show is one of my favorite all time TV shows! :eek:)

:eek::eek::eek::D

RE:

11-25-2008, 10:03 PM

(On a less serious note, I must admit that the Jerry Springer Show is one of my favorite all time TV shows! :eek:)I am sooo laughing out loud right now...You, Murray, are killing me! I used to love the JS show (and the M Povich show), like when it first started, which was what, 20+ years ago? Can't stand it now, but that's me.

http://www.ahajokes.com/cartoon/a0017.jpg

ZY123

11-25-2008, 10:08 PM

Well, I think the forum will be better off if some people do not return. You can't claim to support Hillary on one hand and then not on the other. I suspect thier is a bigger reason that was not addressed as to why people were so adament against Obama. My reasons were I supported Hillary, and I thought the media gave him a free pass. Over all, he represents all I stand for..so I am not unhappy that he won.

I think many want this to be an Obama bashing site....and that helps no one. I am sure those bloggers will find a home elsewhere. The change in direction for this forum truly represents Hillary Clinton and I am glad to see the change.
I admit...I got caught up in the Obama drama....but lets move on.

I agree, moving forward often means reassessing and leaving things behind (as a type this I realize the sentence has a couple interpretations depending how you define the word "things"- both apply)

You can't claim to support Hillary on one hand and then not on the other. I suspect thier is a bigger reason that was not addressed as to why people were so adament against Obama.

I'd be interested in hearing the bigger reason - I have a couple ideas but I'd like to know what others are thinking.

Captain Obvious

11-25-2008, 10:12 PM

I have to admit, I was never a big poster on this forum, although I viewed and read posts at least once a day, because of the clear “group-think” mentality that was developing. Members on this forum would rail against “Obots” and then act and think in ways that were clearly just as robotic as those they were critiquing.

...

Yes, I don’t know what went on behind the scenes and many have said it got really ugly here on election night, but I simply don’t understand why those who hate Obama are *afraid* to debate his supporters? I don’t see why they can’t stand to share a forum with them, and I wonder what they hope to accomplish sitting in a small echo chamber, as someone else put it, in which they exert no influence upon anyone but themselves. It’s just incredibly, incredibly irrational, unhealthy, and counter-productive. If your ideas are sound ones, they will hold up to the scrutiny that the free competition of ideas provides. And if you do have good ideas, you should put them into the marketplace of ideas so that others have the chance of hearing them and possibly adopting them. Good debate actually works to change people’s minds, but how can that happen if people are arguing only one side of a point?

Exactly, I totally agree. Even tho I couldn't post before, I lurked on here to witness this going on every day. Day in and day out the more outspoken supporters would rail against Obama and his 'bots'. "They're so stupid, drinking the kool-aid", blah blah blah. If they would just stop and look in a mirror.

I loved it when McCain got Palin, you guys all loved her, and she's nothing like Hillary! And then you try to stereotype black people and say they're only voting for Obama cuz they're black! hahahaha, that killed me! Oh, and how everything is sexist!!! That's the best!!! That's actually why I got banned before. I pointed out how it's sort of hypocritical to slam Obama supporters for complaining things are racist when you're complaining that things are sexist.

This whole forum was made out of spite, that's it. Hillary was the run-away winner for the Democrats last November and as time went on and that started looking like it wasn't gonna pan out, you all turn around and trow a hissy fit cuz you didn't get your way. And you all thought you were '18 million' strong, ha!

calmati

11-25-2008, 10:19 PM

CGP

11-25-2008, 10:23 PM

This whole forum was made out of spite, that's it. Hillary was the run-away winner for the Democrats last November and as time went on and that started looking like it wasn't gonna pan out, you all turn around and trow a hissy fit cuz you didn't get your way. And you all thought you were '18 million' strong, ha!

The very kind of attitude that isn't welcome here...(maybe why you banned the first time, as opposed to the content).

Some Obama supporters come here with good intentions to "move forward".

Others come here to "get even".

Seemingly you fall into the latter category.

You have no idea why this forum was started. But you can claim to know. And so be it. You are wrong.

And the "hissy fit" dig is pretty juvenile (and sexist).

I know if Hillary Clinton won the election (and Obama supporters were angry at the result) the LAST thing I would be doing would be going to pro-Obama sites to "get even". :rolleyes:

One important statistic you should remember in regards to the Democratic primaries:

>90% of African-Americans voters voted for Obama.

Did >90% female voters vote for Hillary Clinton? No.

So you can't say that people voted on the basis of race/sex equally, as clearly they didn't.

But maybe facts aren't necessary when the goal is to "get even".

Talking of such matters - didn't your candidate win? So why the hurt apparent in your post? Those who are gracious, honorable & noble in victory don't feel the need to continue to attack those on the defeated team.

Ikasu

11-25-2008, 10:24 PM

Is captain obvious banned yet, Murray? He's a pest. Need some RAID.

LadyLazarus

11-25-2008, 10:27 PM

Exactly, I totally agree.

Not sure what to say since you seem to have completely misconstrued my comments.

Horizon

11-25-2008, 10:35 PM

No it wasn't, and honestly, if you can't see that, then perhaps you should change your screenname to "Captain Oblivious".

I support Obama, and I could tell this forum was created by a like-minded group of people to share their own experiences, thoughts and hope for this country. For you to come in a belittle these people for simply creating an atmosphere that was/is a place for them to gather, is nothing short of childish.

If you have some productive information or debating skills to share, that's one thing - but to come in here and type immature remarks akin to "neener, neener" - I just don't see the point.

Murray, feel free to delete this if I've been too rude.

ROFLMFAO!!! CAPTAIN OBLIVIOUS!!! I love it!!!!

CGP

11-25-2008, 10:40 PM

Is captain obvious banned yet, Murray? He's a pest. Need some RAID.

I found the exit door and opened it widely.

Given this forum's history, I think I am being pretty generous in allowing Obama supporters to post here.

Those who abuse that generosity won't be shown much grace.

Coming in here soley to incite others and engage in the "get even" BS, won't work.

Those on the winning side should show some grace & honor.

Yes, I give the HCF members are little more leeway solely because most of them were here first, their candidate didn't win (so they are more likely to hold a grudge), and it's a new thing having to interact with BO supporters in here so I realize for some it will take a while to learn to be more friendly!

Ikasu

11-25-2008, 10:41 PM

i found the exit door and opened it widely.

high five!

Spang

11-25-2008, 10:41 PM

"Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya."

I always liked that line.

Horizon

11-25-2008, 10:41 PM

I found the exit door and opened it widely.

What about his female counterpart??

I know,I'm being bad.:(:(

Meg

11-25-2008, 10:46 PM

high five!

I just read and immediately thought of Borat! *Bangs head*

What about his female counterpart??

I know,I'm being bad.:(:(

No no... that's actually being very nice!:p;)

underpaidnurse

11-25-2008, 10:52 PM

What about his female counterpart??

I know,I'm being bad.:(:(

Time to roll out the naughty couch..I'm thinking we're going to need to attacha port-a-potty to it, since you're never going to get off of it lol

Horizon

11-25-2008, 10:55 PM

Time to roll out the naughty couch..I'm thinking we're going to need to attacha port-a-potty to it, since you're never going to get off of it lol

I know,I am incorrigable!!

Palin Rocks

11-25-2008, 11:49 PM

Hi All:

This is my first post here, and this thread is as good as any to make it on.

I have been reading this board since september and registered back at that time, but since there was a freeze on new members I didnt get posting privileges until now.

Nevertheless, I found this board to be verrry interesting to read while we were in the throes of the election. As you can see from the screen name i selected back then, I am a big fan of Sarah Palin. I have viewed at least a dozen of her stump speeches through the internet, and voted for her, not so much for mccain, but VERY much against Obama.

One of the common bonds i felt with the posters here was the antipathy towards Barack Hussein Obama, or as mark levin calls him, Barack Milhouse Obama.

When the board shut down, I was disappointed, and i didnt notice it re-opened until I surfed over here last week. So, i am just finding out about some of the changes going on here- like some people leaving, and other groups of posters being allowed to post. i guess I'll sit back and lurk a bit to see how the board reads.

But I do know there are some very intelligent, and politically astute people who frequent this board, and i enjoy reading your viewpoints, even if i dont agree with you on all the issues.

Over the eleven years since i got my first computer i have posted on several different boards. I still post on a couple of football boards, as well as Free Republic, which has always had nice things to say about this forum, probably since there was a common foe during the campaign.

I have seen groups of people leave one board and start another (in football forums) and this stuff happens. Personality conflicts arise, philosophies clash, whatever it is, this stuff happens. but you have a good nucleus here to work with.

I have strong feelings about the outcome of the election, and the direction this country is taking, but i didnt come here so much to impose my views on this forum, as much as i enjoy reading your slightly different POVs. So, I will keep some of my more strident opinions to myself, as i did not come here to cause trouble. As someone else mentioned, there are other places where such views may be more welcome.

But on some other issues I am more moderate perhaps, and will try to contribute PRN.

Last of all, one thing I have learned from 11 years of being on the interwebs is that it isnt productive to get into peeing contests with people on a message board, so i refrain from doing that. It's no good for the blood pressure, which i like to keep on an even keel. ;) I

So, I am looking forward to continue reading this board, especially now that i am able to post. There were plenty of times I wanted to post something here but couldnt, and most of the times it was to tell someone i agreed with what they said or that they wrote a great post.

Keep up the good work, people. I hope the forum will continue to be as interesting to read post-election as it was pre-election.

VotingHillary

11-26-2008, 12:59 AM

Maybe it was as Hillary said, "were you in this just for me?"

I can answer that I was in it for her because she was who was best for our country. Hillary didn't let me down, but the primary voters sure did.

Horizon

11-26-2008, 02:21 AM

I can answer that I was in it for her because she was who was best for our country. Hillary didn't let me down, but the primary voters sure did.

Stamp!! But are you not just DYING to know what she thought of PUMA's??
The curiosity is just killing me.

I am always afraid she though we were a bunch of loons,especially some of the things that went on here!

VotingHillary

11-26-2008, 02:35 AM

I found the exit door and opened it widely.

Yes, I give the HCF members are little more leeway solely because most of them were here first, their candidate didn't win (so they are more likely to hold a grudge), and it's a new thing having to interact with BO supporters in here so I realize for some it will take a while to learn to be more friendly!

I appreciate you showing him the door, but as a nine-month member..I think it is time for Hillary supporters to cool their jets a bit as well. Like it or not, Obama is the next POTUS. He showed the good sense to nominate Hillary as SOS...this was his "olive branch" to Hillary supporters. Now, if that falls through the cracks, then all bets are off for me.

But until then, I hope Obama succeeds because if he doesn't, we as a nation don't either.

VotingHillary

11-26-2008, 02:41 AM

Stamp!! But are you not just DYING to know what she thought of PUMA's??
The curiosity is just killing me.

I am always afraid she though we were a bunch of loons,especially some of the things that went on here!

Not really. I have always thought that Hillary respects all viewpoints even if she may disagree with them so I am not worried about what she thought of PUMAs.

ZY123

11-26-2008, 02:42 AM

I appreciate you showing him the door, but as a nine-month member..I think it is time for Hillary supporters to cool their jets a bit as well. Like it or not, Obama is the next POTUS. He showed the good sense to nominate Hillary as SOS...this was his "olive branch" to Hillary supporters. Now, if that falls through the cracks, then all bets are off for me.

But until then, I hope Obama succeeds because if he doesn't, we as a nation don't either.

If SOS falls through the cracks I will be livid. :mad: I may not be fully sure this is the best move for Hillary but now that it's been submitted he better follow through with it.

Horizon

11-26-2008, 02:43 AM

If SOS falls through the cracks I will be livid. :mad: I may not be fully sure this is the best move for Hillary but now that it's been submitted he better follow through with it.

I have been concerned that come Friday,it will be someone else.And then we will have to hear about that for infinity.And be pissed.

JMS825

11-26-2008, 04:04 AM

RE:

11-26-2008, 04:53 AM

I am starting to sicken over the direction it is in. Murray your trying to blend Obots and Hillary people together and censor people if they clash or threads dont go the way they hope. Murray your a good person but putting a cat and a dog together in the dogs house will not make them friends but it will make the dogs tummy full. There is this one assclown named Tao here that has little to no brain activity he just regurgitates the same talking points that has failed time and time again. How many times must you explain that a BC and a COLB is not the same thing or even That Factcheck.org is ran by a donor to Obama.I don't want to get in the middle of this because many of us have our issues with Tao, but...Merideth1 found a really great tool. It's called the ignore button. I have not used it yet because I have not run into anyone quite that bad YET to have to use it on.

So before Murray tells you (in his way) about this ignore function, I thought I would prompt you (in my way)to that function. Just ask Meredith1...she said it works wonders.;):)

Horizon

11-26-2008, 05:24 AM

I don't want to get in the middle of this because many of us have our issues with Tao, but...Merideth1 found a really great tool. It's called the ignore button. I have not used it yet because I have not run into anyone quite that bad YET to have to use it on.

So before Murray tells you (in his way) about this ignore function, I thought I would prompt you (in my way)to that function. Just ask Meredith1...she said it works wonders.;):)

It is FABULOUS!!! you can post away without having to get so annoyed.Their post will show up in quotes from other members,and then you can have a little fun with them if you choose to.I particularly enjoy that.
Or,you can ignore the quotes too.Whatever works for you.
I have only had to put 2 people in my ignore list EVER! One was a member that had joined in Sept. and on is a new Obama person who came to flame and cause problems.Ignore is working well.I highly recommend it.

joeysky18

11-26-2008, 09:05 AM

Murray your a good person but putting a cat and a dog together in the dogs house will not make them friends but it will make the dogs tummy full.

So we should act as human when dealing with Obama supporters who act as human. They are some of them here. I counted 2 so far, and they are a bliss. And I hope more will join the conversation.

And Let Murray deal with the cats and the dogs.

Justmy.02

11-26-2008, 06:05 PM

I, for one, went to the 'other' site because I found this one closed! No warning...HCF just wasn't there.

I have 'lurked' for a while and don't like a lot of what I see here. There are several very disrepectful posters here, and even though you debate them Murray, I find it difficult to keep my tongue; to have to worry about being 'banned' from a messageboard at age 59 seems juvenile to me, unless I would be so hateful as to leave you no choice and I would remove myself or ignore the poster before it came to that.

While some (including me, maybe, although I don't believe I ever dissed you, Murray, except for closing the forum so abruptly) may have been unkind to Murray, I don't think it is at all acceptable to call the folks at HV idiots, or unkind, or not good people (I truly resent that, btw); and to say they don't really back Hillary is the unkindest cut of all. These kinds of remarks only serve to enforce the idea that HCF is not the place to be if you don't agree with the new HCF posters.

It is an admirable goal to try to bring out different points of view, but do so while dissing others is not. And to butt heads constantly because one has a different idea or viewpoint can be wearing. I quit posting on a political thread on a writing site I belong to because it was just too difficult to get anyone to see a different point of view.

So, Murray, there it is. Justmy.02, and let the chips fall where they may.

SoCal4Hillary

11-26-2008, 09:17 PM

While some (including me, maybe, although I don't believe I ever dissed you, Murray, except for closing the forum so abruptly) may have been unkind to Murray, I don't think it is at all acceptable to call the folks at HV idiots, or unkind, or not good people (I truly resent that, btw); and to say they don't really back Hillary is the unkindest cut of all. So how do you feel about them summarily banning many long-time, well-known HCF members--who are die-hard Hillary Clinton supporters--just because said members had the audacity to defend HCF and/or Murray over there? In *MY* opinion, that does not equate to "good people" but does equate to "unkind"--and juvenile.

Ikasu

11-26-2008, 09:24 PM

so how do you feel about them summarily banning many long-time, well-known hcf members--who are die-hard hillary clinton supporters--just because said members had the audacity to defend hcf and/or murray over there? In *my* opinion, that does not equate to "good people" but does equate to "unkind"--and juvenile.

stamp

Justmy.02

11-26-2008, 09:28 PM

So how do you feel about them summarily banning many long-time, well-known HCF members--who are die-hard Hillary Clinton supporters--just because said members had the audacity to defend HCF and/or Murray over there? In *MY* opinion, that does not equate to "good people" but does equate to "unkind"--and juvenile.

That is something you need to take up with them. I don't know the reasons why they would ban folks. I am not a moderator there. All I can do is say I'm sorry that happened to you.

To generalize that an entire group of people are 'not good people' or are 'unkind' and 'juvenile' because a few of them may make a bad decision is never a good thing. I happen to enjoy the group and I don't delve into their 'politics.'

I do think that allowing Obama supporters who NEVER supported Hillary to post on a website with the banner 'Hillary Clinton Forum' is ridiculous. At least change the name of the forum to something representing the eclectic mix you wish to promote...

CGP

11-26-2008, 09:51 PM

I do think that allowing Obama supporters who NEVER supported Hillary to post on a website with the banner 'Hillary Clinton Forum' is ridiculous. At least change the name of the forum to something representing the eclectic mix you wish to promote...

Well - with reference to the past - it could be argued that having a banner with 'Hillary Clinton Forum' on it for a site where many people didn't support Hillary Clinton's decision to support the Democratic candidate was also "problematic"...don't you think?

Hillary Clinton is part of the Democratic Party. She public supports Obama now. So it's no great surprise to have some BO supporters posting here.

Should those who support McCain/Palin also be shown the exit door based on your logic? They are still free to post here.

Being inclusive is a good thing!!

I think it's sad day when people "praise" exclusion of others. It's one thing for a group to tightly focus around a defined goal for a period of time - say during an election - that's an understandable strategy when something specific is trying to be achieved. But it's another thing altogether for people to want to continue to live on an island - on an ongoing basis - and to want to exclude those who are different.

Oh, and we have also been discussing changing the name of the forum for about a month now to something more generic and non-party/non-candidate specific so that's also part of the reason for opening the forum to a broader range of participants...

SoCal4Hillary

11-26-2008, 10:09 PM

it's no great surprise to have some BO supporters posting here.

Should those who support McCain/Palin also be shown the exit door based on your logic? They are still free to post here.
...
I think it's sad day when people "praise" exclusion of others.Come on, Murray, don't you see the difference? Think back a few months when the onslaught of Republicans happened. They were RESPECTFUL to us. They praised us for our commitment not only to Hillary, but to JUSTICE. They wanted to work alongside us for the good of the country.

Now contrast that to [some] Obama supporters. What do they do? They make insulting remarks where they show THEIR ignorance of the "chosen one" they're so infatuated with, and then tell US that we don't know what we're talking about. They've apparently missed the VOLUMES of research--cited, documented research--that many of us spent months and months compiling.

Despite having been a Democrat my entire adult life, I felt NO animosity whatsoever to the Repubs who showed up. I cannot say that about the uninformed Obama followers...

CGP

11-26-2008, 10:18 PM

Come on, Murray, don't you see the difference? Think back a few months when the onslaught of Republicans happened. They were RESPECTFUL to us. They praised us for our commitment not only to Hillary, but to JUSTICE. They wanted to work alongside us for the good of the country.

Yes, the difference was/is those Republicans were also against Obama. So it's no surprise they were more "friendly" - there was a common opponent - Obama.

It's also no surprise that some of the BO posters here have been a little hostile as some of them obviously feel a need to defend their candidate (as I would Hillary if I went on a seriuosly pro-obama site where they were negative to her). Some of them also probably feel a need to fight back when they are insulted for their support of Obama (as I would too if I was insulted/mocked for supporting Hillary). It's not that surprising.

AlexG

11-26-2008, 10:22 PM

Like it or not, Obama is the next POTUS. He showed the good sense to nominate Hillary as SOS...this was his "olive branch" to Hillary supporters.

Most people think Obama nominated Hillary as SOS to pay back for her campaigning for him in the general election. :mad: This may be true even though I solemly believe that Hillary is exceedingly qualified.

SoCal4Hillary

11-27-2008, 12:12 AM

It's also no surprise that some of the BO posters here have been a little hostile as some of them obviously feel a need to defend their candidate (as I would Hillary if I went on a seriuosly pro-obama site where they were negative to her). Some of them also probably feel a need to fight back when they are insulted for their support of Obama (as I would too if I was insulted/mocked for supporting Hillary). It's not that surprising.Yeah, but the difference? They're supporting a lying, hypocritical, anti-American, misogynistic, anti-gay, racist, unqualified empty suit. You're not. YOU would have reason to defend your candidate. What's theirs? :confused:

xfiles

11-27-2008, 12:19 AM

Triple Stamp! That is the point I've been trying to make. Obama doesn't deserve defending as he is a fraud.

Yeah, but the difference? They're supporting a lying, hypocritical, anti-American, misogynistic, anti-gay, racist, unqualified empty suit. You're not. YOU would have reason to defend your candidate. What's theirs? :confused:

CGP

11-27-2008, 12:20 AM

Yeah, but the difference? They're supporting a lying, hypocritical, anti-American, misogynistic, anti-gay, racist, unqualified empty suit. You're not. YOU would have reason to defend your candidate. What's theirs? :confused:

Some general comments...

Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on one's perspective), your description/assessment of Obama may be classifed by some as being opinion rather than fact. As such, I assume that most Obama supporters don't share that opinion therefore it's probably easy for them to defend him & support him.

I guess it's sometimes difficult to determine at what point facts become opinions and at what point opinions become facts. And people will make this determination differently depending on what suits them in the moment. Distinguishing between fact and opinion will always be open to debate/conflict/disagreement. It's also very difficult to prove who has ownership over "the truth".

Spang

11-27-2008, 12:23 AM

Cleverboy

11-27-2008, 12:39 AM

Yeah, but the difference? They're supporting a lying, hypocritical, anti-American, misogynistic, anti-gay, racist, unqualified empty suit. You're not. YOU would have reason to defend your candidate. What's theirs? :confused:He speaks to me. I am a great admirer of eloquence. :p
I guess it's sometimes difficult to determine at what point facts become opinions and at what point opinions become facts. And people will make this determination differently depending on what suits them in the moment. Distinguishing between fact and opinion will always be open to debate/conflict/disagreement. It's also very difficult to prove who has ownership over "the truth".I think the difficulty is illusory. For instance, its very easy to determine facts from opinion (or "interpretation"), but people all too often take offense that their opinion is somehow made less valid, because it is not "fact". So they group it with numerous other opinions and relabel the jar "fact", as if the contents have changed.

When Dragnet coined the phrase, "Just the facts, ma'am." It became an icon of how people tend to conflate the details of what happened, with their personal perception of events. Its the basis of any good murder mystery and the crux of the best magic trick.

Sadly, there is NO absolute truth. That is the landscape associated with faith and belief. Reality itself is just an agreement between a series of dependent and independent sources we deem as authoritative (beginning with our own senses). Once we begin allowing non-consensus sources into our authoritative pool, we can finally reach for our tin-foil hats and call it a day.

Life is an nth dimensional complex manifold.

~ CB

joeysky18

11-27-2008, 12:46 AM

Some general comments...

Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on one's perspective), your description/assessment of Obama may be classifed by some as being opinion rather than fact. As such, I assume that most Obama supporters don't share that opinion therefore it's probably easy for them to defend him & support him.

I guess it's sometimes difficult to determine at what point facts become opinions and at what point opinions become facts. And people will make this determination differently depending on what suits them in the moment. Distinguishing between fact and opinion will always be open to debate/conflict/disagreement. It's also very difficult to prove who has ownership over "the truth".

You are right.

And it might be time that we focus on how the country is doing under the new administration. The new things are happening every day. Important things. Significant things.

VotingHillary

11-27-2008, 12:52 AM

Triple Stamp! That is the point I've been trying to make. Obama doesn't deserve defending as he is a fraud.

As one of the "banned" persons at another board...(you all have the intelligence to figure out which) I find it equally deplorable that Hillary's name is attached to a site that is a proponent to policies and agendas she would NEVER support. PUMA served its purpose during the election, but to think that any Hillary supporter wants Hillary/Palin is a joke.

I think it disgraceful not only that her name is attached to the site, but anyone that calls the site out on it is IMMEDIATELY banned.

Bottom line, Hillary is NOT a conservative...Hillary has NOTHING in common with Palin except her sex.

As far as Obama, I will defend him to a point...because he is the next POTUS...doesn't mean I like it, but as an AMERICAN, I will do my best to insure his success. You show that your party attachment is more important than the state of our nation.

Can we at LEAST let him get into office first before this nonsense?

xfiles

11-27-2008, 01:07 AM

I will never defend Obama because of who he is and how he got where he is--through cheating, lying, hiding the truth and much more.

As far as Hillary goes, she and Palin do have some things in common, fairness, honor and standing for what they believe in.

As one of the "banned" persons at another board...(you all have the intelligence to figure out which) I find it equally deplorable that Hillary's name is attached to a site that is a proponent to policies and agendas she would NEVER support. PUMA served its purpose during the election, but to think that any Hillary supporter wants Hillary/Palin is a joke.

I think it disgraceful not only that her name is attached to the site, but anyone that calls the site out on it is IMMEDIATELY banned.

Bottom line, Hillary is NOT a conservative...Hillary has NOTHING in common with Palin except her sex.

As far as Obama, I will defend him to a point...because he is the next POTUS...doesn't mean I like it, but as an AMERICAN, I will do my best to insure his success. You show that your party attachment is more important than the state of our nation.

Can we at LEAST let him get into office first before this nonsense?

Spang

11-27-2008, 01:10 AM

During the campaign McCain lied more than Obama (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/).

CGP

11-27-2008, 01:13 AM

During the campaign McCain lied more than Obama (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/).

Apparently no-one "lies" in politics anymore. It's called "mis-speaking"! ;)

VotingHillary

11-27-2008, 01:15 AM

As far as Hillary goes, she and Palin do have some things in common, fairness, honor and standing for what they believe in.

and I will not argue that..BUT, and this is the big BUT, they have NOTHING in common politically and to use Hillary's name for an anti-choice, anti-gay, Republican site is a disserivce to Hillary...the personal traits they may share DO NOT equate their political beliefs.

underpaidnurse

11-27-2008, 12:00 PM

Horizon

11-27-2008, 12:16 PM

stamp!!!

I am double stamping that !!!

****Waving****

Me too!!!!!

underpaidnurse

11-27-2008, 12:19 PM

I am double stamping that !!!

****Waving****

Me too!!!!!

Helloooooooo!!! yes, i see you waving there...be careful, you will spill your martini!

underpaidnurse

11-27-2008, 12:21 PM

and I will not argue that..BUT, and this is the big BUT, they have NOTHING in common politically and to use Hillary's name for an anti-choice, anti-gay, Republican site is a disserivce to Hillary...the personal traits they may share DO NOT equate their political beliefs.

STAMP!!!!!! wow, went from never stmaping to doing it twice in one day, this is getting addictive...sorry Murray, I promise to use my new found power only for good :D

Horizon

11-27-2008, 12:26 PM

Merrick is in our club too.I believe that everyone that has been banned in some form or another,was a TRUE HRC supporter.The reasons are all very similar and solidifies in my mind that it is THEM and NOT US!!!

And I agree,Palin and HRC have nothing in common except gender.

benny

11-27-2008, 01:14 PM

There are many posters who were part of the HCF family. But now that HCF changed direction, many loyal members have drifted away, and are trashing HCF. That is to be expected. You cant blame them for that. You changed the direction of HCF. Whether your decision is right or not, only time will tell.

And previous members are not really gonna come here and trash HCF. If they thought that they could change the mind of the admin, then yes, a whole lot of them would have come here, and done that. But they know that their opinions are now useless to the admin. Once the admin decided to change course, over the protests of many Clinton supporters, they had no choice.

MrSandMan

11-27-2008, 01:27 PM

I found the exit door and opened it widely.

Murray, I am confused. The title of this thread is "Want to trash HCF? Do so here!". And when a poster says their 2cents (in a thread that you made and encourage), you ban him?

I guess I don't understand that. Did he post porn in another thread that I don't know about or are you taking his "opinion" in this thread personal?

Ikasu

11-27-2008, 01:41 PM

I am a great admirer of eloquence. :p
I think the difficulty is illusory. For instance, its very easy to determine facts from opinion (or "interpretation"), but people all too often take offense that their opinion is somehow made less valid, because it is not "fact". So they group it with numerous other opinions and relabel the jar "fact", as if the contents have changed.

When Dragnet coined the phrase, "Just the facts, ma'am." It became an icon of how people tend to conflate the details of what happened, with their personal perception of events. Its the basis of any good murder mystery and the crux of the best magic trick.

Sadly, there is NO absolute truth. That is the landscape associated with faith and belief. Reality itself is just an agreement between a series of dependent and independent sources we deem as authoritative (beginning with our own senses). Once we begin allowing non-consensus sources into our authoritative pool, we can finally reach for our tin-foil hats and call it a day.

Life is an nth dimensional complex manifold.

~ CB

Are you a theoretical physicist? :p

There are absolutes.

EsmeraldaB

11-27-2008, 04:36 PM

The most humane thing accomplished was changing the name of this forum away from HCF. It denoted the end beyond ends. Closure so to speak, in the most bitter form. And then, after changing the name and shutting down temporarily, the old name returns..?!? :confused:

If going in a "new" direction is what was desired, resorting to the previous name only serves to stagnate the forum, disrespect what was, and confuse lurkers who maintain Hillary ties. It becomes a mockery of it's former self.

I thank Murray for starting the forum, but I'm shocked, bewildered and hurt at what HCF has become. :( I occasionally lurk, but it's like revisiting a morgue. If we can't perform an autopsy to find out what happened, then it's time for burial, if in name only.

Please Murray, if you're reading this, I asked you to change the name of HCF once before, and you did. Any chance you could see it in your heart to do so again? Thanks. I hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.

Ezzie

SoCal4Hillary

11-27-2008, 04:57 PM

The most humane thing accomplished was changing the name of this forum away from HCF. It denoted the end beyond ends. Closure so to speak, in the most bitter form. And then, after changing the name and shutting down temporarily, the old name returns..?!? :confused:

If going in a "new" direction is what was desired, resorting to the previous name only serves to stagnate the forum, disrespect what was, and confuse lurkers who maintain Hillary ties. It becomes a mockery of it's former self.

I thank Murray for starting the forum, but I'm shocked, bewildered and hurt at what HCF has become. :( I occasionally lurk, but it's like revisiting a morgue. If we can't perform an autopsy to find out what happened, then it's time for burial, if in name only.

Please Murray, if you're reading this, I asked you to change the name of HCF once before, and you did. Any chance you could see it in your heart to do so again?I think you're right. Personally, I'd like to see one of two things happen: Return to the "Common Ground Politics" name that was used briefly or--much more preferably--return the forum to its roots, i.e., pro-Hillary ONLY. There are so many other places on the 'net to mingle with Obama supporters if we so choose (and I don't, because I don't need my blood pressure to go up any higher than it already is), why should THIS forum serve that purpose too? :confused:

Meg

11-27-2008, 05:31 PM

One thing I just need to say.

I know for months we on members on this forum pushed for Hillary because we thought she was the best. We called her a hero and fighter, an inspiration, etc. We also praised how we thought she was WAY more bipartisan than Obama. Well... if she was able to push aside her personal and political differences with people she worked with and represented, in order to find a glimmer of hope to get ANYTHING done. Then why can't we?

Everyone this election cycle has thrown an insult... to say you haven't is a lie. Everytime an Obama supporter called us, "Crazy, middle-aged, white women" and a host of other names I won't repeat. What did we do, we turned right back around and called them, "Koolaid drinkers, spoiled college kids, elitists, cultists," dare I go on? So for every to act as though it was a one way thing is a far-fetched to say the least. Sexism this, racism that, sadly enough they both happened. If you care to bring up Sarah when can go their too. Yes some of his supporters called her, "Ditzy, dumb, bimbo..." any other name you want to throw in there. But McCain/Palin supporters weren't exaclty any better were they?

Bill said it, "Politics is a contact sport." If you can't handle that reality then that's going to be your hurdle. There's a reason our country is in the shape it's in. The people who sit in D.C. forgot the part where WE were the ones they are sent to represent, not themselves. Bias one way or another does NOTHING to help, it just creates more problems. So some of the people who may not want to "debate" or "discuss" with Obama supporters JUST because you disagreed, makes you seem no better than those politicans and supporters who you said were self-centeres and only in it for themselves.

Sorry, but you can't convice anyone your cause is right, if you're talking to people who already agree with you.

CGP

11-27-2008, 06:43 PM

but I'm shocked, bewildered and hurt at what HCF has become. :(

I am not sure why...inclusivity is a bad thing I guess?

So you were not shocked at what it became during Plan B (August to October) when so many were supporting the opposite team & so many were excluded for holding views which were deemed "inconsistent" with the majority view?

CGP

11-27-2008, 06:44 PM

Sorry, but you can't convice anyone your cause is right, if you're talking to people who already agree with you.

Excellent point.

sojourner

11-27-2008, 06:52 PM

Are you a theoretical physicist? :p

There are absolutes.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." –Albert Einstein

Of course this quote only applies if you consider infinity an absolute ;)

sojourner

11-27-2008, 06:57 PM

Sorry, but you can't convice anyone your cause is right, if you're talking to people who already agree with you.

Great line and so true!

CGP

11-27-2008, 06:59 PM

Great line and so true!

Maybe a byline for a new forum name?!

sojourner

11-27-2008, 07:03 PM

Maybe a byline for a new forum name?!

I think it would be a great byline.

I have already added it to my list of quotes:

Sorry, but you can't convince anyone your cause is right, if you're talking to people who already agree with you. – Meggles (Forum name TBD)

Meg

11-27-2008, 08:35 PM

Maybe a byline for a new forum name?!

LOL if you do that there'll be an uproar in a Village far, far away.:rolleyes::p;)

underpaidnurse

11-27-2008, 10:53 PM

LOL if you do that there'll be an uproar in a Village far, far away.:rolleyes::p;)

Let them roar!!!! It was an excellent thought, written beautifully! I liked it.

Meg

11-27-2008, 10:56 PM

Let them roar!!!! It was an excellent thought, written beautifully! I liked it.

LOL! They roar like lions from behind, but purr like kittens when confronted.:rolleyes: Go figure.:rolleyes:

Edit: I just noticed I spelled "convince" wrong. We need spell check! :p

Double edit: I spelled A LOT of stuff wrong! YIKES!:eek:

Karen Keefe

11-28-2008, 12:35 AM

Appreciate your opening the forum, Murray. Some folks have info to retrieve and this helps. Be interesting to see how things develop.

CGP

11-28-2008, 02:13 AM

Appreciate your opening the forum, Murray. Some folks have info to retrieve and this helps. Be interesting to see how things develop.

You're welcome...

Some general comments in response to reading some of the posts in this thread...

To be fair (despite the title of the thread), I don't think it's helpful to summararily trash either HCF or HV.

Both sites/forums serve a purpose and somewhat different audiences.

And some people remain interested in both - and that's ok too.

It's not fair/reasonable to make sweeping generalizations about people on HCF or to make sweeping generalizations about people on HV. There are always exceptions and always variations on a theme.

As I said elsehwere on this forum, the Internet is a NETWORK. No site/forum exists in isolation and traffic between sites is what keeps the Internet alive.

So, the more forums/sites the better. It keeps things interesting. There are no monopolies when it comes to the Internet - except maybe Google!

Justmy.02

11-28-2008, 03:05 PM

LOL if you do that there'll be an uproar in a Village far, far away.:rolleyes::p;)

Why do you continue to insult another forum, and why would they care what 'byline' is used here?

I find this comment, and this attitude, very juvenile.

I loved HCF and I still like many of the folks here. I also like HV. I know that some of us come to both places. If I'm not welcome here, that's for Murray to say...

Horizon

11-28-2008, 03:25 PM

Why do you continue to insult another forum, and why would they care what 'byline' is used here?

I find this comment, and this attitude, very juvenile.

I loved HCF and I still like many of the folks here. I also like HV. I know that some of us come to both places. If I'm not welcome here, that's for Murray to say...

They are being insulted because they continue to harass us,by coming here and stirring the pot and harassing some of us on other sites.
They are the ones who have exhibited juvenile behavior by banning members for posting here and in other sites they do not agree with.They are the juvenile ones for censoring posts over there,and deleting and editing what they do not agree with.They are juvenile for thinking that if you were not in line with Plan B,you must be for Obama or a troll.
They are juvenile for espousing fair treatment of women,and backstabbing women any chance they get.
It has happened to several of us.Don't make assumptions until you hear ALL the facts.

benny

11-28-2008, 03:30 PM

Meredith1, calm down. you're blowing things out of propotion. Let it not be a competition between the 2 sites. Murray was more mature in his comments.

Horizon

11-28-2008, 03:32 PM

Meredith1, calm down. you're blowing things out of propotion. Let it not be a competition between the 2 sites. Murray was more mature in his comments.

Do not tell me to calm down,or question my maturity.It's rude,and uncalled for.
I do not see see that my response to the post I quoted garnered your response.I was simply stating facts.
I see that you are a "new" member here.Obviously,you do not have clue one as to the history of some of these comments.Best to stay out of it.

benny

11-28-2008, 03:34 PM

Do not tell me to calm down,or question my maturity.It's rude,and uncalled for.
I do not see see that my response to the post I quoted garnered your response.I was simply stating facts.

Facts in your view. Well, to each, his/her own. I'm not here to argue.

Horizon

11-28-2008, 03:36 PM

Facts in your view. Well, to each, his/her own. I'm not here to argue.

Telling someone to calm down,when you are not privy to all that has gone on,will get you into an argument.
These are not "facts in my view".These are facts.Period.
You do not know what has went on,so I would be seriously hestitant before commenting to any of us that do.

benny

11-28-2008, 04:18 PM

Telling someone to calm down,when you are not privy to all that has gone on,will get you into an argument.
These are not "facts in my view".These are facts.Period.
You do not know what has went on,so I would be seriously hestitant before commenting to any of us that do.

lol. ok, I wont argue with you. I'll be quiet.

CGP

11-28-2008, 07:08 PM

You're welcome...

Some general comments in response to reading some of the posts in this thread...

To be fair (despite the title of the thread), I don't think it's helpful to summararily trash either HCF or HV.

Both sites/forums serve a purpose and somewhat different audiences.

And some people remain interested in both - and that's ok too.

It's not fair/reasonable to make sweeping generalizations about people on HCF or to make sweeping generalizations about people on HV. There are always exceptions and always variations on a theme.

As I said elsehwere on this forum, the Internet is a NETWORK. No site/forum exists in isolation and traffic between sites is what keeps the Internet alive.

So, the more forums/sites the better. It keeps things interesting. There are no monopolies when it comes to the Internet - except maybe Google!

Let's just leave things as I have said above.

Thread closed.