Future of this Forum...

[CGP]

What are your thoughts?

Where is this forum heading?

In a good or bad direction?

Say whatever comes to mind...

[Spang]

The hate is very unnecessary.

[Meg]

What are your thoughts?

Where is this forum heading?

In a good or bad direction?

Say whatever comes to mind...

Hmm... where to start?

I don't mind the direction of the forum. Despite a small amount of hesitation early on it's actually not as terrible as some might have predicted.

We aren't at each others throats all day everyday. We do sometimes get into good discussions about certain topics. We have learned to find humor in one another.:p

I think in the event that we gain a larger membership again, things may be hectic for a bit but eventually it'll settle down as long as there are certain guidelines in place.

I think the biggest thing to decide is what you plan to do to the name. I'm still (selfishly anyway) in favor of keeping the Hillary name. But I think in the forum decription it be explained that we are aimed at keeping it moderate and centrist. Complicated I know, but we came up with some good ideas in that other thread!

Common ground can't be that hard...we've already gotten used to some Obama supporters!:p KIDDING!!!

[sojourner]

For a while I thought that common ground idea was starting to work, now I a not so sure. Threads that start out like they will turn into a good discussion of an issue ultimately turn into food fights.

[MrSandMan]

The hate is very unnecessary.

I agree. The hate and negativity over the dumbest things is toxic and poisoning the forum completely.

For awhile there I was getting sucked-in and would responded negatively, which made my quality of life to go down for a few days. There's long-term-member trolls here that I think are purposely trying to destroy the forum and the new direction.

I'm trying real hard to ignore the blatant trolls.

Besides that, I really like the new forum and glad to be part of it.

[Ikasu]

For a while I thought that common ground idea was starting to work, now I a not so sure. Threads that start out like they will turn into a good discussion of an issue ultimately turn into food fights.

One baiting comment causes that.

[TheTaoOfBill]

I (perhaps selfishly as well) think Hillary should stay out of the name.

It's the same reason that we were complaining about HV using Hillary's name. This forum doesn't have much to do with Hillary anymore other than it's past. So why tie Hillary to a forum which may or may not share her values depending on the member.

[ZY123]

Frustrating! Especially the dualies.

No seriously the answer I think is new members. There is too much personal past going on with a lot of members (and I'm not at all talking about Obama or even Obama supporting members, I''m talking personal issues between the old HCF members). I don't think it's something many of us are willing to just sweep under the rug - it kind of reminds me of that circle of abuse pocket guide you used to post.

Forward is the only direction to move...no looking back - even if you wanted to look back at this point too much has happened..

[Meg]

I (perhaps selfishly as well) think Hillary should stay out of the name.

It's the same reason that we were complaining about HV using Hillary's name. This forum doesn't have much to do with Hillary anymore other than it's past. So why tie Hillary to a forum which may or may not share her values depending on the member.

I think the point you missed with what I meant was that finding common ground is something Hillary has tried to do in her career.;)

That's ok though...:p

[TheTaoOfBill]

I agree. The hate and negativity over the dumbest things is toxic and poisoning the forum completely.

For awhile there I was getting sucked-in and would responded negatively, which made my quality of life to go down for a few days. There's long-term-member trolls here that I think are purposely trying to destroy the forum and the new direction.

I'm trying real hard to ignore the blatant trolls.

Besides that, I really like the new forum and glad to be part of it.

Problem is it's hard to make a rule against it. I mean are you going to stop people from hating a candidate? I don't think that's possible to make such a rule and still expect a well rounded discussion.

[ZY123]

^^I do agree there are dualies (people with multiple screen names)...I'm not sure of their purpose other than to disrupt, sometimes they seem to argue with themselves.

[Latina4Hillary]

Just a quick reply. Lately, I have not had much time to spend at HCF. I stop by to read the latest posts but I have not been able to read everything I'd like to read and respond to so I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

I prefer the name Hillary Clinton Forum. This forum was my salvation during the primaries and during the general election campaign. I had a place to drop by anytime to talk to people who understood my feelings and..I did not have to say much to get support and direction.

It was a real shock when the forum closed and then reopened with a whole bunch of new members. Most new members are gentle people but some are...well...what word shall I use? Abrassive? I am confused about the purpose and direction of my beloved Hillary Clinton Forum.

[Brooke]

Lately? Bad. Very very bad. From forum members I have liked, which makes me sad. So much hatred, ignoranance, bigotry and spite.

It's only a few though, I want to get that across.

[Horizon]

I like where we are now compared to where we were in November. I am increasingly frustrated at the personal attacks on the Obama supporting members by the dualies and the conservatives. I think it unnecessary and flat out rude, and I am personally taking it in the shorts when I defend them, and frankly, I don't care. Say what you want, RUDE IS RUDE!! They may frustrate us in their support of Obama, but never do they attack HRC and her supporting members the way that they are attacked. I have seen some level of maturity there that some of our long time members could learn from.

Disagreement is one thing but personal attacks and name calling need to stop. I will admit that when I see that, I wade right in and fling the crap right back, and I will continue to do so as long as they persist in the juvenile name calling and behavior.

I am enjoying this forum now more than ever, but we are in need of new blood.
And the dualies need to be banned and told to out themselves if they want to post here. It is foolish of them to think we don't know who they are.

[sojourner]

One baiting comment causes that.
\Exactly. Instead of just stating their position on an issue and giving supporting reasons many here cannot resist tacking on some comment about politician X or party Y.

This tells me they really don’t want to discuss issues in search of common ground. You can’t demean a person and then expect to convince them of anything.

[CGP]

Personally, there is only one issue on which I cannot engage in "civil debate" about and that is the issue of gay rights. Everyone has limits to what they can/can't tolerate and that is one issue which you will not see much tolerance from me in regards to people who oppose equality for people like me. As for most other issues, I am pretty open about discussing things generally.

As for Obama and people who are fans of him, I think everyone needs to realize that as the President of the USA it is to be expected he will receive a large amount of criticism. It goes with the role. People shouldn't be surprised or shocked to find he has and will have many critics. So why worry about it. Obama doesn't need the "protection" of the everyday person to "succeed" politically - clearly!

[RE:]

Since I belong to a forum that's All Hillary (and then some)...I'm not sure why I keep lurking...maybe to watch the drama unfold.:eek: Just being honest, really...and since I'm on a roll...whenever you start a thread like this, I noticed it's always after you are gone for a day or two because you are getting bored again.

[Jobu86]

I really like this forum overall, it's active (though could definitely use more members) and a lot of the old members have been nice enough to accept us and we've had some fun and funny discussions.

Unfortunately a lot of discussions still turn into Obama hater vs. Obama defender, which is stupid. I've been absolutely guilty of helping to hijack threads by being all defensive about Obama, and am trying to let more go. But on the other hand, threads that have nothing to do with Obama really don't need snide remarks about how corrupt/sexist/racist etc Obama is inserted into them, and people that continue to do that should be stopped. If the only reason you are at this forum is to vent constantly about how much you hate someone, what's the point?

As for the name, honestly I could care less. But I do think that with respect to the forums history, that a no anti-HRC policy stay in effect.

[Jobu86]

Are there seriously dualies on this forum? GCP needs to out them! That's just stupid, if you can't say what you want to say under your main name, don't say it at all!

[kyforhillary]

I haven't been posting much lately, just mostly reading posts. I am of the old guard, if you will. I didn't have a problem opening it up to new members or Obama supporters. I think it started out as a Hillary forum and that's why we came here to get out of the storm. If Hillary is still going to be in politics and especially SOS, I don't see why it can't keep her name. I also think, just by reading the posts, that some of the new members and some of the old members seem to have joined up and tagged team a lot of the old members.
I read things the new members say, that to me, have seemed rather bossy.
It also seems that some of the older, but still newer of the older members, are also really bossy and snarky. This is the first time I have weighed in on this, but just thought I would give my two cents worth. I feel out of place here now, because if you haven't jumped on the BO bandwagon just yet, you get sniped at. This is going to take a long time for people to get past, and IMH, I think the older members who worked really hard for Hillary and posted many, many references here and did hours of research and really, really, know the skinny on what went on in the election, can't be expected to just start clapping and cheering. I think they should be allowed some negativity, just as O's supporters should be allowed their jubilation. If this is not allowed here, then I suggest just changing it to another Obama Admiration Society.
We all hope (ugh, I hate that word) our Country thrives under Obama, after all, it is in our best interests that it does, but don't expect everyone to just turn off all the emotions in a month or two, especially with the things that are now coming out that most of the people here already knew about and preached on for months, it's just not gonna happen.

[Horizon]

But I do think that with respect to the forums history, that a no anti-HRC policy stay in effect.

Thank you, Jobu, we really appreciate that you said that.;);)

[CGP]

Also, I think "common ground" should be understood as being a shared place to discuss politics as opposed to an "outcome" trying to be achieved.

[Ikasu]

With respect to the forum name, HRC forum doesn't mean it's a shrine to Hillary Clinton. Think of it of as a presidential library, not everything in the Kennedy Presidential Library is pro-Kennedy and pro-Democrat. It's a tribute to President Kennedy. That's the way the Hillary Clinton Forum should be viewed, a forum in the honor of HRC.

[ZY123]

Are there seriously dualies on this forum? GCP needs to out them! That's just stupid, if you can't say what you want to say under your main name, don't say it at all!

Well we are allowed to change our names here but under our original account (if that makes sense). There are people I believe have multiple accounts though....

[CGP]

I feel out of place here now, because if you haven't jumped on the BO bandwagon just yet, you get sniped at.

And no-one should feel obliged or pressued to jump on the BO "bandwagon".

People should retain their right to present criticisms of the US president.

[Ikasu]

Also, I think "common ground" should be understood as being a shared place to discuss politics as opposed to an "outcome" trying to be achieved.

Yes, I think that's the misunderstanding. It's a place for different people to talk politics, NOT necessarily to build a consensus, although if that happens, good!

[CGP]

Yes, I think that's the misunderstanding. It's a place for different people to talk politics, NOT necessarily to build a consensus, although if that happens, good!

Yes, correct.

Some (perhaps more than a few) are misunderstanding this key point.

It's not a place for holding hands around the camp fire. It's simply a place where different viewpoints can be presented (unless of course it's about gay being a choice! :eek:).

[calmati]

^^I do agree there are dualiess (people with multiple screen names)...I'm not sure of their purpose other than to disrupt, sometimes they seem to argue with themselves.

I was wondering what a "dualie" was. I first saw that word a couple of weeks ago (I think), and just thought it was a poster who wanted to "duel" with another poster... But yeah, I agree...

At another forum I occasionally post (not a political forum), we usually see them coming.

First, the big arguments that escalate into name-calling.

Second, the sad "farewell" post (attention time). And for the über-dramatic... the "death" post (where a kindly relative of the recently-departed has come to the forum to announce the unexpected passing of said poster).

And finally...

Third, welcoming the "new" poster, who's been lurking for so long, they know ALL the history of the forum and rather than settle in slowly, they feel just fine chewing out other posters. Sure, they have the same typos and talking-points of a certain "former" poster, but that's just a coincidence. ;)

[Kaylin]

I don't open every thread, so might be missing too many of the examples that people are talking about to have noticed bad relationships between specific posters or anything like that. I also should confess I missed what transpired beginning 11/4 and for the next couple of days--the whole thing-- which I've gathered is crucial to fully understanding what some members are referencing in their previous posts in this thread.

Generally I think the quality of the discussion and the good intentions of the people participating is more important in the early stages than a bigger membership, and I definitely have the impression that many partisan opinions are already represented here. I see Republicans and Democrats, independents, people who describe themselves as liberals, conservatives, and moderates. to me that seems like a good (enough) start.

Bill wrote a good post yesterday expressing why people should give the forum a chance, and I agree with him. I do think expectations play a role, and people who expect that the forum starting out will be a perfect model of common ground political discussion may be expecting too much. More likely is that there will be a period of time where the forum itself will be developing a basic personality and character, some trial and error from which some tried and true protocols will develop.

I agree with Meggles that laughter can help. we are not only a varied group politically, we are coming off a hotly contested election. if we hijack a thread (to have some laughs or for whatever reason), well, that's what moderation is for. we'll all survive the admonishments to get back on topic, and maybe once in a while a couple of people who hadn't been getting on very well will see each other in a different light because they shared a laugh.

Murray, I'm curious--what do you think about how things have been going?

[CGP]

Since I belong to a forum that's All Hillary (and then some)...I'm not sure why I keep lurking...maybe to watch the drama unfold.:eek: Just being honest, really...and since I'm on a roll...whenever you start a thread like this, I noticed it's always after you are gone for a day or two because you are getting bored again.

Usually when I am away for a while I think more about what the purpose/function of this forum is...and how it impacts on my life. The reality is this forum does impact on my life in a major way in terms of time/money, but more significantly in terms of ENERGY. I am not convinced, presently, that it's worth the sacrifices.

[Ikasu]

Usually when I am away for a while I think more about what the purpose/function of this forum is...and how it impacts on my life. The reality is this forum does impact on my life in a major way in terms of time/money, but more significantly in terms of ENERGY. I am not convinced, presently, that it's worth the sacrifices.

Add more mods to lighten the load.

[Jobu86]

I haven't been posting much lately, just mostly reading posts. I am of the old guard, if you will. I didn't have a problem opening it up to new members or Obama supporters. I think it started out as a Hillary forum and that's why we came here to get out of the storm. If Hillary is still going to be in politics and especially SOS, I don't see why it can't keep her name. I also think, just by reading the posts, that some of the new members and some of the old members seem to have joined up and tagged team a lot of the old members.
I read things the new members say, that to me, have seemed rather bossy.
It also seems that some of the older, but still newer of the older members, are also really bossy and snarky. This is the first time I have weighed in on this, but just thought I would give my two cents worth. I feel out of place here now, because if you haven't jumped on the BO bandwagon just yet, you get sniped at. This is going to take a long time for people to get past, and IMH, I think the older members who worked really hard for Hillary and posted many, many references here and did hours of research and really, really, know the skinny on what went on in the election, can't be expected to just start clapping and cheering. I think they should be allowed some negativity, just as O's supporters should be allowed their jubilation. If this is not allowed here, then I suggest just changing it to another Obama Admiration Society.
We all hope (ugh, I hate that word) our Country thrives under Obama, after all, it is in our best interests that it does, but don't expect everyone to just turn off all the emotions in a month or two, especially with the things that are now coming out that most of the people here already knew about and preached on for months, it's just not gonna happen.

I don't think anyone should be forced to jump on the BO bandwagon. I know Meggles, Meredith etc aren't big fans of Obama, but I love having discussions with them!

Further, there is no reason you can't post topics that are critical of Obama. Especially articles that you want to discuss. That's FINE and even necessary. What pisses me off is constantly hijacking posts that are unrelated to Obama and turning them into Obama hate threads. THAT is unnecessary.

[xfiles]

There is too much silliness, juvenile behavior, baiting, clique's who like to have private "jokes" and ridicule among themselves, etc. It doesn't look appealing or serious to people who read and decide whether or not to join.

The good reputation the forum used to have is diminishing with these types of behaviors.

[ZY123]

I was wondering what a "dualie" was. I first saw that word a couple of weeks ago (I think), and just thought it was a poster who wanted to "duel" with another poster... But yeah, I agree...

At another forum I occasionally post (not a political forum), we usually see them coming.

First, the big arguments that escalate into name-calling.

Second, the sad "farewell" post (attention time). And for the über-dramatic... the "death" post (where a kindly relative of the recently-departed has come to the forum to announce the unexpected passing of said poster).

And finally...

Third, welcoming the "new" poster, who's been lurking for so long, they know ALL the history of the forum and rather than settle in slowly, they feel just fine chewing out other posters. Sure, they have the same typos and talking-points of a certain "former" poster, but that's just a coincidence. ;)

ROFL! The old death hoax - that happened on not one but TWO forums I used to post at...and yes the relative came to "console" us. People sure are crazy in the world!

[Meg]

I don't think anyone should be forced to jump on the BO bandwagon. I know Meggles, Meredith etc aren't big fans of Obama, but I love having discussions with them!

Further, there is no reason you can't post topics that are critical of Obama. Especially articles that you want to discuss. That's FINE and even necessary. What pisses me off is constantly hijacking posts that are unrelated to Obama and turning them into Obama hate threads. THAT is unnecessary.


Awws.:o:p:D

But that's one thing I think people have misunderstood from the get go. Some think that since we have let Obama supproters in, that they can't be crtical of Obama. You can certainly be critical... but at least have it be about soemthing supported by facts and done maturely.

And, yes the constant hijacking of threads COMPLETELY unrelated Obama have almost hit my snapping point. Not everything here needs to be a Anti-Obama vs. Pro-Obama!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

[RE:]

ROFL! The old death hoax - that happened on not one but TWO forums I used to post at...and yes the relative came to "console" us. People sure are crazy in the world!HA! I almost thought calmati was your dualie, Zhaan, until I looked up!! That story still kills me...what nut jobs...

ooops...carry on:)

[sojourner]

Per “Animal Farm” If you want to attract members from all political philosophies I don’t think you can have Hillary in the name. It will imply to many potential members that Hillary supporters are more equal than others and by extension democrats more than those from other parties.

[CGP]

Per “Animal Farm” If you want to attract members from all political philosophies I don’t think you can have Hillary in the name. It will imply to many potential members that Hillary supporters are more equal than others and by extension democrats more than those from other parties.

I agree.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Jobu86 View Post
I don't think anyone should be forced to jump on the BO bandwagon. I know Meggles, Meredith etc aren't big fans of Obama, but I love having discussions with them!

Further, there is no reason you can't post topics that are critical of Obama. Especially articles that you want to discuss. That's FINE and even necessary. What pisses me off is constantly hijacking posts that are unrelated to Obama and turning them into Obama hate threads. THAT is unnecessary.

We like having discussions with you too, and I agree about the hate threads. Unnecessary and juvenile.

Muuray, HiilaryToTheEnd is right. You and one other can not continue to do this alone. More mods is the answere. 1 Obama supporter, 1 HRC and 1 conservative and they must be in cahoots with one another always.

[ZY123]

Usually when I am away for a while I think more about what the purpose/function of this forum is...and how it impacts on my life. The reality is this forum does impact on my life in a major way in terms of time/money, but more significantly in terms of ENERGY. I am not convinced, presently, that it's worth the sacrifices.

Though of course no one makes the sacrafices you do (which are much appreciated) I too have been thinking about my time here this week while I've been trip planning. Honestly I'm not sure the personal situation is something I will ever put behind me (in fact I know I won't and I don't think I should)...so that's where I came to the conclusion that perhaps the answer would be more members.

I think you have something but the past is holding it back.

[Ikasu]

We like having discussions with you too, and I agree about the hate threads. Unnecessary and juvenile.

Muuray, HiilaryToTheEnd is right. You and one other can not continue to do this alone. More mods is the answere. 1 Obama supporter, 1 HRC and 1 conservative and they must be in cahoots with one another always.

I nominate Meredith and Jobu!

[Horizon]

I nominate Meredith and Jobu!

HA!!LMAO!!! I was thinking YOU!!!

[ZY123]

We like having discussions with you too, and I agree about the hate threads. Unnecessary and juvenile.

Muuray, HiilaryToTheEnd is right. You and one other can not continue to do this alone. More mods is the answere. 1 Obama supporter, 1 HRC and 1 conservative and they must be in cahoots with one another always.

I disagree with the idea that the mods should be in cahoots....I think that causes problems, it would be better if the mods were not friends.

[calmati]

What are your thoughts?

Where is this forum heading?

In a good or bad direction?

Say whatever comes to mind...

My thoughts:

While a couple of pre-November members have been very welcoming, I still do not feel accepted here.

I find myself deleting many posts before I submit them, not because they contain anything controversial, but because I feel that I will be attacked on a personal level for daring to join into the conversation.

I see a few signatures that have me baffled. I wonder why it's OK for these signatures to exist, when - if I had the exact same signature - only focused in the other direction, I would be called to task within seconds. I also don't feel the freedom to object, so I try not to call attention to it (I did once, and will not make that mistake again).

So, for me, it all comes down to this:

I've made a few friends. I enjoy the conversation/posting with several members here, so I'll hang around (unless I get banned)... at least for now.

I appreciate the forum, and all the work you (Murray) have put into it. It's your baby -- do with it as you see fit.

[Ikasu]

HA!!LMAO!!! I was thinking YOU!!!

:p

You're more accepting!

[Meg]

HA!!LMAO!!! I was thinking YOU!!!

I was thinking him too!:p

I disagree with the idea that the mods should be in cahoots....I think that causes problems, it would be better if the mods were not friends.


Isn't that what caused all this "inside bickering" in the first place. I'll never get over that, sorry Murray.:mad:

[Ikasu]

I disagree with the idea that the mods should be in cahoots....I think that causes problems, it would be better if the mods were not friends.

I think she meant that the mods should be contact with each other often, not necessarily friendly.

[ZY123]

btw...in regard to sacrafices I think the answer is to a lot of times let some things go (pick the large battles only). You don't have to be here all the time and people shouldn't expect you to be.

[CGP]

It's your baby -- do with it as you see fit.

I hope it's not my baby!!! Not a good reflection on my parenting skills or lack thereof!!!

[CGP]

btw...in regard to sacrafices I think the answer is to a lot of times let some things go (pick the large battles only). You don't have to be here all the time and people shouldn't expect you to be.

Yes, and recently I haven't been here for that very reason.

[Meg]

Yes, and recently I haven't been here for that very reason.

I think we've actually gotten very good about not getting out of hand...:eek: Moderating isn't like having to prevent a death match anymore!:p

[CGP]

I think we've actually gotten very good about not getting out of hand...:eek: Moderating isn't like having to prevent a death match anymore!:p

Yes, I think it has been better and that's why I haven't felt as compelled to intervene. Ideally, in a mature environment, people's postings wouldn't need intense monitoring!

[Meg]

Yes, I think it has been better and that's why I haven't felt as compelled to intervene. Ideally, in a mature environment, people's postings wouldn't need intense monitoring!

Which is great for you... you can once again have a life.:D

[ZY123]

My thoughts:

While a couple of pre-November members have been very welcoming, I still do not feel accepted here.

I find myself deleting many posts before I submit them, not because they contain anything controversial, but because I feel that I will be attacked on a personal level for daring to join into the conversation.

I see a few signatures that have me baffled. I wonder why it's OK for these signatures to exist, when - if I had the exact same signature - only focused in the other direction, I would be called to task within seconds. I also don't feel the freedom to object, so I try not to call attention to it (I did once, and will not make that mistake again).

So, for me, it all comes down to this:

I've made a few friends. I enjoy the conversation/posting with several members here, so I'll hang around (unless I get banned)... at least for now.

I appreciate the forum, and all the work you (Murray) have put into it. It's your baby -- do with it as you see fit.

I feel that way too and I'm a long time member. I basically went away last week (I lurked some but didn't post) because I am just tired of my posts being anaylzed elsewhere and my profile being extensively viewed. It's beyond frustrating.

BTW....I think you're cool, so if I didn't say so: welcome!.
(Also I think Meredith would like to PM you. ;) but yours are disabled.)

[Horizon]

I feel that way too and I'm a long time member. I basically went away last week (I lurked some but didn't post) because I am just tired of my posts being anaylzed elsewhere and my profile being extensively viewed. It's beyond frustrating.

BTW....I think you're cool, so if I didn't say so: welcome!.
(Also I think Meredith would like to PM you. ;) but yours are disabled.)

I got her!! I forgot to tell you today!!

AS far as cahoots, I just meant in agreement when something major comes up. NOT like what went on before, just being mature adults informing one another of what is going on.

[sojourner]

Generally I think the quality of the discussion and the good intentions of the people participating is more important in the early stages than a bigger membership, and I definitely have the impression that many partisan opinions are already represented here. I see Republicans and Democrats, independents, people who describe themselves as liberals, conservatives, and moderates. to me that seems like a good (enough) start.


I agree. I would pick quality of membership in the beginning over quantity. If you start out with people of good will that want to discuss issues without personal attacks on other members or particular politicians that is who you will attract as members. I think in the end you will be rewarded. And it may mean that you have to ban some people to get the message across.

[VotingHillary]

Just keep this ship sailing, Murray. I would hate to see the name change due to historical reasons, but a good point was made about knocking another forum using her name and this one using it , of which I am COMPLETELY GUILTY.

A name change may be in order. Might help to quell some of the bitterness as well. Hillary's name is associated with certain positions...pro-abortion rights, pro-gay rights and pro-gay marriage, pro-women etc.

I think CommonGround is the way to go...it doesn't portend any political leaning.

[Spang]

Yes. CommonGround, please. It already won in at least one poll.

[sadie]

I think things have settled quite a bit in the last month, so I've been posting and participating more (much to the chagrin of others apparently). I appreciate the diversity of thought but the ignore feature is definitely still in use. Overall, I think the forum is moving in a good direction.

One thing that I think needs to be kept in mind is that there is a difference between trying to start a meaningful discussion and deliberately trying to incite controversy. I see this happening a lot more in the topical threads rather than threads based on news or articles.

Just my two cents.

[sojourner]

Generally I think the quality of the discussion and the good intentions of the people participating is more important in the early stages than a bigger membership, and I definitely have the impression that many partisan opinions are already represented here. I see Republicans and Democrats, independents, people who describe themselves as liberals, conservatives, and moderates. to me that seems like a good (enough) start.


I agree. I would pick quality of membership in the beginning over quantity. If you start out with people of good will that want to discuss issues without personal attacks on other members or particular politicians that is who you will attract as members. I think in the end you will be rewarded. And it may mean that you have to ban some people to get the message across.

[Karen Keefe]

Would like to see election reform as a concern. Also, unpopular though it may be, a real vetting of Obama and all who support him. This illegal selection of a candidate and illegal campaign financing bodes poorly for our democracy--what's left of it. If we don't own up to our part in allowing this corrupt selection process to fester for years, it will only be worse next time.

[foxyladi]

For a while I thought that common ground idea was starting to work, now I a not so sure. Threads that start out like they will turn into a good discussion of an issue ultimately turn into food fights.

please no food fights..lol..
administrater.
the forum seems to be growing and changing as well..
i love it.now how i do is this..lol.
the threads are plainly labled..if i choose to i can just ..not go there lol..

[Spang]

Also, unpopular though it may be, a real vetting of Obama and all who support him.

You want to vet me? What would you like to know?

[mcgowan.swan]

amazing as it may seem to most that know me, at this point in time, i simply don't have an opinion on this issue.

i am lurking a lot, posting when i feel like it, and following the forum along. i will stay as long as i am comfortable, or leave if the opposite occurs. i hope to stay as i love it here. always have.

muzza, you have always made correct choices. carry on. love swan. :):)

[MrSandMan]

Would like to see election reform as a concern. Also, unpopular though it may be, a real vetting of Obama and all who support him. This illegal selection of a candidate and illegal campaign financing bodes poorly for our democracy--what's left of it. If we don't own up to our part in allowing this corrupt selection process to fester for years, it will only be worse next time.

Are you serious?

[The_Basseteer]

please no food fights..lol..

Unless someone is throwing pie!!!

In the opinion of a conservative first, Republican second; the forum seems to be progressing well. I don't see too much of intentionally stepping on people's toes; there may occasionally be some hackles raised but any discussions I start I try to be as in-offensive as possible with the goal to discover not just what you think...but why.

[Horizon]

please no food fights..lol..
administrater.
the forum seems to be growing and changing as well..
i love it.now how i do is this..lol.
the threads are plainly labled..if i choose to i can just ..not go there lol..

Glad to see someone figured this out!! It works out quite nicely.

[Redladybird]

If this forum turns into the Obama Says Let's Unite Now Forum, I'm out. Might as well be the sister site to Democrat Underground. Sorry. Thanks for keeping me sane during that unexpected/unfortunate drama of a primary. Was hoping this site would stay focused and honest when it came to seriously scrutinizing the Obama administration. Not just agreeing to everything they say. If this site remains a place for real answers positive and negative I'm in! I'll check in here to verify news stories. Remains to be seen. Peace.

[PartyOfOne]

What are your thoughts?
Say whatever comes to mind...

I think the way it's going is great. As I said in a pre-election post, if Obama becomes President he will be my President. None of the destructive "He's not my President" nonsense of the past eight and even sixteen years. I won't be obsessed with searching out every wild-eyed rumor that discredits or diminishes him. But, that is not to say I'll ever play nice with his supporters. The history is there. Can't be changed--needn't be discussed. I just skip any posts or any threads initiated by known Obama supporters. That works out pretty good for me 'cause I don't even have enough time to read the threads I'd really like to keep up with. Peaceful coexistence.

If things seem a little slow lately it could be the holidays. I, for one, have had to do without my daily dose of HRC most days lately. If you want to talk about ramping up participation that might be easier next month.

I would have been happier with a task-oriented forum, but the way it has evolved is fine too. Matter of fact, you may have been right. Some of the general discussion has been enlightening.

I have no conclusion to offer. You've kept this ship afloat through some hellacious storms, and I'm sure you'll continue to make good decisions.

[imisshill]

Murray, I do not see anyone on this forum that would be able to do a great job as moderator. Most of the members are completely biased. For example, one of the regulars on here called someone an idiot because he disagreed with her.

I think you should take a vacation and close the forum down for a couple of weeks. You deserve a break:)

[TheTaoOfBill]

I think you should take a vacation and close the forum down for a couple of weeks. You deserve a break:)
I could use a break too considering I thought you just said "I think you should take a Vatican". :D:D I'm losing it.

[Meg]

Murray, I do not see anyone on this forum that would be able to do a great job as moderator. Most of the members are completely biased. For example, one of the regulars on here called someone an idiot because he disagreed with her.

I think you should take a vacation and close the forum down for a couple of weeks. You deserve a break:)


Haha... I could say something... but I'll refrain.

[imisshill]

Haha... I could say something... but I'll refrain.

There you go, acting like a smart ass;). You are very smart to refrain from saying anything mean.

If any of you guys want a future in politics you should really be careful what you say. Everything that you type will be on record FOREVER! I would hate to know that some of you guys had to throw away your dreams because of some stupid post on a political forum.

P.S. I would to say thank you to Murray for remaining completely rational and unbiased. You are truly gifted.

[Horizon]

Murray, I do not see anyone on this forum that would be able to do a great job as moderator. Most of the members are completely biased. For example, one of the regulars on here called someone an idiot because he disagreed with her.

I think you should take a vacation and close the forum down for a couple of weeks. You deserve a break:)

Yeah, that was me that called someone an idiot. It was completely justified as they were calling for the shoe hurler to be put to death, accused the man of being a terrorist and was equating all followers of the Muslim faith with 9/11.
In my book all of the above spoken in one post makes you an idiot.
When you have a few more posts under your belt, then you can start telling the admin what to do with this forum. Until then, go back to the forum you came from, I think I can give you direction on the event you lost your way!

[Meg]

There you go, acting like a smart ass;). You are very smart to refrain from saying anything mean.

If any of you guys want a future in politics you should really be careful what you say. Everything that you type will be on record FOREVER! I would hate to know that some of you guys had to throw away your dreams because of some stupid post on a political forum.

P.S. I would to say thank you to Murray for remaining completely rational and unbiased. You are truly gifted.

Oh that's not acting like a smartass. Beleive me I could've said something else.;)

And I've never said anything on here that would endanger that. So yeah.:p

[TheTaoOfBill]

There you go, acting like a smart ass;). You are very smart to refrain from saying anything mean.

If any of you guys want a future in politics you should really be careful what you say. Everything that you type will be on record FOREVER! I would hate to know that some of you guys had to throw away your dreams because of some stupid post on a political forum.

P.S. I would to say thank you to Murray for remaining completely rational and unbiased. You are truly gifted.

I wouldn't last 5 seconds in politics. I'm way too politically incorrect.

[Horizon]

Yeah, that was me that called someone an idiot. It was completely justified as they were calling for the shoe hurler to be put to death, accused the man of being a terrorist and was equating all followers of the Muslim faith with 9/11.
In my book all of the above spoken in one post makes you an idiot.
When you have a few more posts under your belt, then you can start telling the admin what to do with this forum. Until then, go back to the forum you came from, I think I can give you direction in the event you lost your way!

I'm quoting my own post to ensure that imisshill sees my response.

[TheTaoOfBill]

I'm quoting my own post to ensure that imisshill sees my response.

Mary, if there is one problem you have, being heard is not it. :p

[Meg]

I wouldn't last 5 seconds in politics. I'm way too politically incorrect.

LOL I can play the part of being politically correct. It's sad but having to be one of the few minorities in a predominantly caucasian school... prepares you for those things. :rolleyes:

[Horizon]

Mary, if there is one problem you have, being heard is not it. :p

I am sick to death of these peeps that come here and sign up as if they're new, when they're not, and posting crap like that. Grow a pair and post under your real identity and then maybe you might have some credibility. Otherwise, STFU and KFO!!
The person I called an idiot was well deserving of it and I stand by my comment to her. Being close minded, irrational and hypocritical gets you NO where with me.

[kyforhillary]

See, this is exactly what I was talking about when I posted earlier in this thread. I am sorry, but I don't think any REGULAR MEMBER has the right to just go off on another member like you just did. They were stating what they felt, and you just jumped in there basically cussing them out and telling them to leave. That is not, I think, how this is supposed to work. I have seen this time and again lately. If this is Common Ground, then somewhere I missed the boat. It is nice, I guess to be one of the Stars of the Forum, but not at other peoples expense.

[Meg]

See, this is exactly what I was talking about when I posted earlier in this thread. I am sorry, but I don't think any REGULAR MEMBER has the right to just go off on another member like you just did. They were stating what they felt, and you just jumped in there basically cussing them out and telling them to leave. That is not, I think, how this is supposed to work. I have seen this time and again lately. If this is Common Ground, then somewhere I missed the boat. It is nice, I guess to be one of the Stars of the Forum, but not at other peoples expense.

That was a bit of an unnecessary ego shot, no? She's not trying to act like one of "the Stars of the Forum"

Mary, said what she felt she needed to say... it happens.

[Horizon]

See, this is exactly what I was talking about when I posted earlier in this thread. I am sorry, but I don't think any REGULAR MEMBER has the right to just go off on another member like you just did. They were stating what they felt, and you just jumped in there basically cussing them out and telling them to leave. That is not, I think, how this is supposed to work. I have seen this time and again lately. If this is Common Ground, then somewhere I missed the boat. It is nice, I guess to be one of the Stars of the Forum, but not at other peoples expense.

So, non regular members have the right but I don't?? They can state how they feel but I can't?? I'm supposed to keep MY mouth shut and not offend anyone, but them offending me is ok??
Thats NOT how I work and never will be.You obviously did not read any further than one or two posts, so you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Spang]

Meredith1 has her own forum trailer and an entourage. Also, the paparazzi swarm her wherever she posts.

[Horizon]

Meredith1 has her own forum trailer and an entourage. Also, the paparazzi swarm her wherever she posts.

Look for me on the cover of People mag and OK! next month.

[calmati]

Look for me on the cover of People mag and OK! next month.

I only read The Globe.

[Meg]

I only read The Globe.


You can catch her there too!

[TheTaoOfBill]

You can catch her there too!

Just after the article about Hillary's secret love affair with Barney Frank and her attempt to turn him straight.

[Horizon]

Just after the article about Hillary's secret love affair with Barney Frank and her attempt to turn him straight.

Hill got page one and I got bumped to the back. WTF is THAT all about!!!

Had to do this to feed my ego.

[Folamix]

I personally like the direction the forum is going in, much preferable to the post November atmosphere and the atmosphere leading up to the General Election. Quite frankly some of the sentiment expressed here was turning me off big time; that's one of the reasons I wasn't here election night. Once Murray opened it up to everyone, some of the initial outcry from the Hillary supporters was way over the top for me as well.

All that being said, I think the time for negativity has passed. Just like we expect Hillary Clinton to be expected as the inspiration for the creation of this forum, BO should be respected as the elected President, regardless of how you may feel about the whole election process. This is not to say that there should be no constructive criticism or skepticism where warranted, but unsubstantiated accusations or rumors serve no purpose. If there are legitimate questions or inconsistencies, that is fair game.

I have been a little slack in posting articles, but I would like to see the forum get back to commenting on newsworthy articles, and not the endless back-and-forth, accusatory and sometimes sniper attacks that some of these threads have degenerated into.

[Jobu86]

I see a few signatures that have me baffled. I wonder why it's OK for these signatures to exist, when - if I had the exact same signature - only focused in the other direction, I would be called to task within seconds.

Wanted to bring this back up. There are a couple sigs that have no place in anything but a purely anti-obama forum. If there is to be any respectful discourse here, there is no way they should be allowed. And I'm sure everyone knows which they are.

[Meg]

Wanted to bring this back up. There are a couple sigs that have no place in anything but a purely anti-obama forum. If there is to be any respectful discourse here, there is no way they should be allowed. And I'm sure everyone knows which they are.


At this point... it's like talking to a wall. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_204v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)
http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb112&pp=ZNxdm824YYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb112_ZNxdm824YYUS&utm_id=7920)

[shenanigans]

Hillary Clinton brought me here and that's why I continue to read here. I don't post as much-- if that were to change, I probably would stop reading here, too.

[NoMoreSexism]

I am increasingly frustrated at the personal attacks on the Obama supporting members by the dualies and the conservatives.

Paint with a broad brush much? I don't say squat about Obama, so don't go pointing your hysterical finger at all conservatives. Common ground, my ass. You get some sort of feel good rush kissing up to the Obama supporters and making damn sure the rest of us know it. Support the prez, fine. Shout it from the rooftops, but the USA was founded on the ability and rights of it's citizens to engage in political discourse. Deal with it. I think OBama is an idiot and a con man, yet only in this moment have I ever said anything like that here out of respect for the forum. Now, not so much.

Yeah, that was me that called someone an idiot. It was completely justified as they were calling for the shoe hurler to be put to death, accused the man of being a terrorist and was equating all followers of the Muslim faith with 9/11.
In my book all of the above spoken in one post makes you an idiot.
When you have a few more posts under your belt, then you can start telling the admin what to do with this forum. Until then, go back to the forum you came from, I think I can give you direction on the event you lost your way!
This was so nice the first time, that you had to bump it up a second time. :rolleyes: Your avatar suits you. New members all welcome to rebuild this sinking ship as long as they "STFU" and agree with you. Well sweetie, you are one of the reasons this forum went from something wonderful to something you'd find in an aol kid's chatroom.

Disable my account. I'm out of here. We'll all be forced to worship King Obama after January 20th. I don't need it now.

[Horizon]

Paint with a broad brush much? I don't say squat about Obama, so don't go pointing your hysterical finger at all conservatives. Common ground, my ass. You get some sort of feel good rush kissing up to the Obama supporters and making damn sure the rest of us know it. Support the prez, fine. Shout it from the rooftops, but the USA was founded on the ability and rights of it's citizens to engage in political discourse. Deal with it. I think OBama is an idiot and a con man, yet only in this moment have I ever said anything like that here out of respect for the forum. Now, not so much.


This was so nice the first time, that you had to bump it up a second time. :rolleyes: Your avatar suits you. New members all welcome to rebuild this sinking ship as long as they "STFU" and agree with you. Well sweetie, you are one of the reasons this forum went from something wonderful to something you'd find in an aol kid's chatroom.

Disable my account. I'm out of here. We'll all be forced to worship King Obama after January 20th. I don't need it now.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!!!
The reason this forum took a turn for the worse was because of people like YOU who are obsessed with the hate and can't see what may possibly be a good thing, to have a conversation with others that don't echo the drivel out of your mouth. Not my problem, but possibly yours and those like you.I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I do expect them to act like adults when they disagree with me, or anyone else. When they make ridiculous statements I refuse to sit back and be quiet.
Nomoresexism, and you call ME sweetie?? Hypocrite much??

[Mariya]

Ok, I will admit that I have not gone through every post in this thread. Takes too much time. But my opinion -
(a) I like the direction of the new forum
(b) Water finds its own level, it is the law of physics, but it also takes time. So, there will be conflict in initial stages, but soon things will settle down.
(c) A lot of wonderful and interesting issues have been discussed here in the past month or so. Some examples - stem cell research, feminism, gay gene theory, the show thrower and Bush etc. It is only when we get to Obama that we have issues
(d) I understand that some issues are hot button issues for some people - but if we start hurling insults at each other, then we don't get any honest discussion going. I wish we don't have to be under the constant pressure of being banned.
(e) Each side thinks that they are being nice, and the otherside is hateful. Each party thinks that the other party triggered it. I find hate and kinship from every side..perhaps we can just have some rules on language used?

I was banned from original HCF. I was a Hillary supporter and anti-Obama (at that time). However, I expressed concern over something, and I was labeled a "concern troll" and banned only after like 10 posts or something. Now, I am here with a different name, and I definitely find this forum a little more interesting, and broader dimensioned than the old one. But then, I don't spend all my time here, and the ability of this group to affect my psyche is limited.

[xfiles]

This post is representative of what I was trying to say about the clique' mntality that has developed on this forum which chases people away. It is very juvenile and not necessary. Mentioning certain members names in a derragatory sense is not necessary. Acting condescending is not necessary. Disagreeing is fine but there is a way to do it and leave members names out and being professional in responses. This type behavior will be the death of the forum.

Paint with a broad brush much? I don't say squat about Obama, so don't go pointing your hysterical finger at all conservatives. Common ground, my ass. You get some sort of feel good rush kissing up to the Obama supporters and making damn sure the rest of us know it. Support the prez, fine. Shout it from the rooftops, but the USA was founded on the ability and rights of it's citizens to engage in political discourse. Deal with it. I think OBama is an idiot and a con man, yet only in this moment have I ever said anything like that here out of respect for the forum. Now, not so much.


This was so nice the first time, that you had to bump it up a second time. :rolleyes: Your avatar suits you. New members all welcome to rebuild this sinking ship as long as they "STFU" and agree with you. Well sweetie, you are one of the reasons this forum went from something wonderful to something you'd find in an aol kid's chatroom.

Disable my account. I'm out of here. We'll all be forced to worship King Obama after January 20th. I don't need it now.

[Mariya]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!!!


Meredith, I generally agree with your overall views, but why is it OK for one group member to ask another group member to STFU or get out of the group or "go back to where you came from"? Is it that all group members are equal, but the older ones are more equal than others?

[Ikasu]

Meredith, I generally agree with your overall views, but why is it OK for one group member to ask another group member to STFU or get out of the group or "go back to where you came from"? Is it that all group members are equal, but the older ones are more equal than others?

NoMoreSexism said he/she is leaving. It was just a response to that.

[xfiles]

It nevertheless is an unacceptable sentiment to say that to any member. If you have personal or unfriendly comments to make to an INDIVIDUAL, PM them. I have gotten several PM's from people who know I'm a long time member and they are concerned and not sure they want to be members here due to this type and other comments.

NoMoreSexism said he/she is leaving. It was just a response to that.

[Mariya]

The STFU, KFO and "go back to where you came from " comments were present even before that sentiment was expressed.

[Meg]

The STFU, KFO and "go back to where you came from " comments were present even before that sentiment was expressed.

Because some members need to stfu, kfo and leave. And no I'm not refering to some of the newbies.

[xfiles]

What sentiment? It would be helpful if you'd quote what you are referring to. Also, do 2 wrongs make a right? So what if it was present before (whatever you're referring to). It needs to stop or be deleted by the moderators. I can tell you based on comments I have received privately from others and things I've read on other forums, this forum is becoming a "joke" to others. But carry on.

The STFU, KFO and "go back to where you came from " comments were present even before that sentiment was expressed.

[Horizon]

It nevertheless is an unacceptable sentiment to say that to any member. If you have personal or unfriendly comments to make to an INDIVIDUAL, PM them. I have gotten several PM's from people who know I'm a long time member and they are concerned and not sure they want to be members here due to this type and other comments.

TFRC, there is a whole group of you that left this forum to go to another. You come back here, and when you don't like what you see, you post some really inflammatory crap to stir the pot. I see no need to post what I think in Pm and I hardly think that you are receiving as many pm's as you say you are from concerned people. I have many times been on the receiving end of unkind comments and have learned to take it all in stride. I suggest that those of you that hate Obama and his supporters,yet insist on posting here, do the same.
The passive aggressive post above is the real problem here, not what I and others have to say. This will never be the old HCF, it has taken a new direction which a lot of you keep complaining about. If you don't like it, don't visit.
The "dualie" posters are also a huge problem. At least you have the guts to post under your original name, instead of sneaking back, re registering under another name and posting the crap I have seen them post. They are kidding themselves if they think we don't know who they are and what they are up to.The person who I was having it out with is one of them. It's bullshit and it needs to stop. Stay over at your other forum if you don't like what goes on here and leave us alone. I am not sucking up to the Obama supporters either, I have realized that they are not Aliens from the Planet Zorn, but actual human beings that are generally in agreeance with me on MANY issues. Why would I not be friendly with them?? To not do so here seems petty and juvenile to me.
Furthermore, I am an asshat too!! At least I can admit my shortcomings, unlike all of you who are feeling the need to call me out on shit you started.
If I feel the need to tell people to STFU or KFO, I can do so. Do it back, I don't care!! It's the damned internet, not my real life and I suggest that many of you keep this in mind.
At the end of the day, this is Murrays forum and we would all do well to remember that!

[Meg]

TFRC, there is a whole group of you that left this forum to go to another. You come back here, and when you don't like what you see, you post some really inflammatory crap to stir the pot. I see no need to post what I think in Pm and I hardly think that you are receiving as many pm's as you say you are from concerned people. I have many times been on the receiving end of unkind comments and have learned to take it all in stride. I suggest that those of you that hate Obama and his supporters,yet insist on posting here, do the same.
The passive aggressive post above is the real problem here, not what I and others have to say. This will never be the old HCF, it has taken a new direction which a lot of you keep complaining about. If you don't like it, don't visit.
The "dualie" posters are also a huge problem. At least you have the guts to post under your original name, instead of sneaking back, re registering under another name and posting the crap I have seen them post. They are kidding themselves if they think we don't know who they are and what they are up to.The person who I was having it out with is one of them. It's bullshit and it needs to stop. Stay over at your other forum if you don't like what goes on here and leave us alone. I am not sucking up to the Obama supporters either, I have realized that they are not Aliens from the Planet Zorn, but actual human beings that are generally in agreeance with me on MANY issues. Why would I not be friendly with them?? To not do so here seems petty and juvenile to me.
Furthermore, I am an asshat too!! At least I can admit my shortcomings, unlike all of you who are feeling the need to call me out on shit you started.
If I feel the need to tell people to STFU or KFO, I can do so. Do it back, I don't care!! It's the damned internet, not my real life and I suggest that many of you keep this in mind.
At the end of the day, this is Murrays forum and we would all do well to remember that!

Stamp! :eek:

[CGP]

The future of the forum is indeed in jeopardy, but less because of the Clinton/Obama supporters rift, and more because of my refusal to tolerate the views of people who are anti-gay. When the forum was strictly pro-hillary (and before the Republican influx), having to deal with people who think being gay is a "choice" (and all the bullshit that goes with that) was extremely rare. As the forum has become more open, there has been a greater number of people expressing views about gays/lesbians that I find inolerable - honestly intolerabe. As a gay person, I can't admin a forum and allow such people to post here. I just can't do it. So that might be the one issue that leads me to say "goodbye" to this forum.

[xfiles]

I rest my case. This is a perfect example of personal attack and naming names. When I have a complaint, I try to post generically and if the shoe fits, someone can wear it!

I have Mary on ignore and would have not even responded to your quote of hers but I wanted to make an example of it. I rarely post anything inflammatory--just impassioned debate about the topic NOT THE PERSON!

I've been a member of this forum almost sinc it's inception and I want to give it a chance to survive with dignity so don't criticize me for staying! :mad:

Stamp! :eek:

[Meg]

The future of the forum is indeed in jeopardy, but less because of the Clinton/Obama supporters rift, and more because of my refusal to tolerate the views of people who are anti-gay. When the forum was strictly pro-hillary (and before the Republican influx), having to deal with people who think being gay is a "choice" (and all the bullshit that goes with that) was extremely rare. As the forum has become more open, there has been a greater number of people expressing views about gays/lesbians that I find inolerable - honestly intolerabe. As a gay person, I can't admin a forum and allow such people to post here. I just can't do it. So that might be the one issue that leads me to say "goodbye" to this forum.


Well Murray then you can easily make a rule allowing no homophobic discussions, end of story. Yes ,this is supposed to be common ground but some issues are not up for debate, remember?


I rest my case. This is a perfect example of personal attack and naming names. When I have a complaint, I try to post generically and if the shoe fits, someone can wear it!

I have Mary on ignore and would have not even responded to your quote of hers but I wanted to make an example of it. I rarely post anything inflammatory--just impassioned debate about the topic NOT THE PERSON!

I've been a member of this forum almost sinc it's inception and I want to give it a chance to survive with dignity so don't criticize me for staying! :mad:

Well it's better than being passive aggressive towards memebers you dislike. Some of you seem to have forgotten how personal things became after election night and how personal they remain. So pardon us if we refuse to play nice to the same people who trash talked us behind our back and come here and smile as though everything is ok.

So if you don't want to start something, don't go around saying things are getting "cliquish". It's not cliquish it's people interacting a friendly manner with one another, that anyone is allowed to join in. Although some chose not too.

[xfiles]

Murray, just ban them. Don't allow topics that aren't gay friendly. That is what I do on my forum. Others quickly report anything unacceptable and I delete it and give one warning to the offender and then if anything happens again, they are banned also. But don't close the forum! :mad:

The future of the forum is indeed in jeopardy, but less because of the Clinton/Obama supporters rift, and more because of my refusal to tolerate the views of people who are anti-gay. When the forum was strictly pro-hillary (and before the Republican influx), having to deal with people who think being gay is a "choice" (and all the bullshit that goes with that) was extremely rare. As the forum has become more open, there has been a greater number of people expressing views about gays/lesbians that I find inolerable - honestly intolerabe. As a gay person, I can't admin a forum and allow such people to post here. I just can't do it. So that might be the one issue that leads me to say "goodbye" to this forum.

[Horizon]

The future of the forum is not bright, but less because of the Clinton/Obama supporters rift, and more because of my refusal to tolerate the views of people who are anti-gay. When the forum was strictly pro-hillary (and before the Republican influx), having to deal with people who think being gay is a "choice" (and all the bullshit that goes with that) was extremely rare. As the forum has become more open, there has been a greater number of people expressing views about gays/lesbians that I find inolerable - honestly intolerabe. I can't admin a forum and allow such people to post here. I just can't do it. So that might be the one issue that leads me to say "goodbye" to this forum.

Murray, what about making that VERY clear upon joining rather than ditch the place? And, invite that those that have expressed those views to leave or be banned? I would hate to see this place close, we have made some real headway in coming together on certain issues.
Or how about a more liberal leaning forum, since those seem to be the views that best suit your own? I understand your thinking here, I am beyond offended when I see the "choice" argument or any other sign of homophobia.

[ZY123]

The future of the forum is indeed in jeopardy, but less because of the Clinton/Obama supporters rift, and more because of my refusal to tolerate the views of people who are anti-gay. When the forum was strictly pro-hillary (and before the Republican influx), having to deal with people who think being gay is a "choice" (and all the bullshit that goes with that) was extremely rare. As the forum has become more open, there has been a greater number of people expressing views about gays/lesbians that I find inolerable - honestly intolerabe. As a gay person, I can't admin a forum and allow such people to post here. I just can't do it. So that might be the one issue that leads me to say "goodbye" to this forum.

I would honestly do the same thing...when someone treats you or a group of people poorly it shouldn't be tolerated. I don't tolerate anything anti-gay and that goes for loud intolerance as well as condoning through silence.

The same applies to the rift that was created within this forum on November 4th IMO - if you were me and were treated as badly as I was would you want to post with any of the people responsible or those associated with that group of people? Why would I tolerate people who have treated me that way? I think the big rift is Hillary people vs. Hillary people at this point. Of course the Hillary vs. Obama rift still exists also.

[CGP]

Well Murray then you can easily make a rule allowing no homophobic discussions, end of story. Yes ,this is supposed to be common ground but some issues are not up for debate, remember?

We go round in circles though. There are people - more than a few - who think it's fine and reasonable to debate with people who are antigay. Personally, I think such debates are a total waste of time and energy.

And I define "antigay" very broadly as being anyone who holds any of the following views:

- being gay is a choice

- gays can become straight if they really want to

- gays should not be allowed to marry: their relationships should not receive equal (as in 100%, not 10%) protection under the law

- it's ok to discriminate against gay people

- heterosexual people are superior to homosexual people

- expressing antigay views is not homophobic

- it's ok to use religion to justify and rationalize antigay/homophobic/heterosexist views, opinions and actions.

[CGP]

I would honestly do the same thing...when someone treats you or a group of people poorly it shouldn't be tolerated. I don't tolerate anything anti-gay and that goes for loud intolerance as well as condoning through silence.

The same applies to the rift that was created within this forum on November 4th IMO - if you were me and were treated as badly as I was would you want to post with any of the people responsible or those associated with that group of people? Why would I tolerate people who have treated me that way? I think the big rift is Hillary people vs. Hillary people at this point. Of course the Hillary vs. Obama rift still exists also.

My main rift on the gay issue is with Republican-leaning voters who have expressed views about gays that I find personally offensive. So the Hillary/Obama people are not really in the equation on this one particular issue.

[Meg]

We go round in circles though. There are people - more than a few - who think it's fine and reasonable to debate with people who are antigay. Personally, I think such debates are a total waste of time and energy.

And I define "antigay" very broadly as being anyone who holds any of the following views:

- being gay is a choice

- gays can become straight if they really want to

- gays should not be allowed to marry: their relationships should not receive equal (as in 100%, not 10%) protection under the law

- it's ok to discriminate against gay people

- heterosexual people are superior to homosexual people

- expressing antigay views is not homophobic

- the Bible says being gay is wrong


But those people who think debating the issue is worth while haven't dealt with the people we have for months. Who no matter what you try to explain will continue to maintain their homophobic view.

As I said, some issues aren't up for discussion, and it's up to you to draw the line. It's your forum, not theirs. Your final decision is what matters.

I would hate to see this forum close over such an easily fixed problem... again!;)

[Horizon]

CGP:
And I define "antigay" very broadly as being anyone who holds any of the following views:

- being gay is a choice

- gays can become straight if they really want to

- gays should not be allowed to marry: their relationships should not receive equal (as in 100%, not 10%) protection under the law

- it's ok to discriminate against gay people

- heterosexual people are superior to homosexual people

- expressing antigay views is not homophobic

- it's ok to use religion to justify and rationalize antigay/homophobic/heterosexist views, opinions and actions.

I agree %100 and I think those that hold these views should be asked to leave or be banned. They have a problem staying out of any LGBT we post, so asking them to stay away from those threads doesn't work.
I just hate to see this place go away because of them.

[ZY123]

My main rift on the gay issue is with Republican-leaning voters who have expressed views about gays that I find personally offensive. So the Hillary/Obama people are not really in the equation on this one particular issue.


Yeah I gotcha...but I was just expanding your thought. I think the anti-gay views that are loudly expressed are mainly from Republican leaning voters (though I think many Hillary and Obama voters unfortunately feel the same way - which makes me disgusted).

I'm just saying I think even if the anti-gay post problem is solved there are still a lot of other problems.

[Ikasu]

We go round in circles though. There are people - more than a few - who think it's fine and reasonable to debate with people who are antigay. Personally, I think such debates are a total waste of time and energy.

And I define "antigay" very broadly as being anyone who holds any of the following views:

- being gay is a choice

- gays can become straight if they really want to

- gays should not be allowed to marry: their relationships should not receive equal (as in 100%, not 10%) protection under the law

- it's ok to discriminate against gay people

- heterosexual people are superior to homosexual people

- expressing antigay views is not homophobic

- it's ok to use religion to justify and rationalize antigay/homophobic/heterosexist views, opinions and actions.

I agree with this standard. And it's an easy fix -- ban anyone who expresses these views on sight. No warning necessary. No ands ifs or buts about it.

[CGP]

I'm just saying I think even if the anti-gay post problem is solved there are still a lot of other problems.

For sure, I agree.

Those other problems, however, affect me less on a personal level (although I realize they may affect others directly on a personal level).

The gay thing cuts directly to my heart!

[Meg]

The gay thing cuts directly to my heart!

Awwss... group hug for Murray.

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/2407_group_hug.gif (http://www.clipartof.com)

[Horizon]

Awwss... group hug for Murray.

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/2407_group_hug.gif (http://www.clipartof.com)

Murray, http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/hugs.gif and also for all of our other LGBT members who are forced to see this crap!

[TheTaoOfBill]

Murray you know what helps me deal with idiotic positions that piss me the hell off? Become a total sarcastic ******* to them. If their positions are so idiotic it should be very easy to make fun of their logic. So just completely make fun of them. We'll join in and we'll all have a good laugh at the idiots. For me this is what helps me from getting super pissed off as dumb positions.

[ZY123]

For sure, I agree.

Those other problems, however, affect me less on a personal level (although I realize they may affect others directly on a personal level).

The gay thing cuts directly to my heart!

Me too on the anti-gay stuff affecting me personally! It is definitely a personal issue for me (I'm not gay but a close family member is). (The anti-agnostic and anti-atheist thing also cuts me directly.)

I do think the anti-gay posts should be dealt with as what I call a "deal breaker"...or a "one strike and you're out" policy.

However, the other personal issue is a huge cut for many here also and honestly sometimes I just think why would I post with people who treated me like that? Isn't that just setting myself up for another round?

[Meg]

Murray, http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/hugs.gif and also for all of our other LGBT members who are forced to see this crap!

Not only our LGBT members but us that support them as well! My goodness, I've never wanted to slap people so much in my life than when gay anything comes up!:eek:

[xfiles]

Murray, if you think other issues are a problem, then you should close the forum now permanently.

Obviously other issues aren't going to go away so if that's your inclination, it won't get any better in your mind.

I offered a long time ago to administer this forum (with the caveat you could come back at any time and take it over or not) and that offer still stands.

I would not tolerate anything anti-gay either.

[TheTaoOfBill]

I offered a long time ago to administer this forum (with the caveat you could come back at any time and take it over or not) and that offer still stands.


If you administered it it might become as popular as your Sarah Palin forum!

In other words... practically dead.

[Ikasu]

If you administered it it might become as popular as your Sarah Palin forum!

In other words... practically dead.

Is this comment necessary?

[Horizon]

Not only our LGBT members but us that support them as well! My goodness, I've never wanted to slap people so much in my life than when gay anything comes up!:eek:

Smack the taste right outta their mouth!
I did mean that for all, should have said so!

[ZY123]

Murray, if you think other issues are a problem, then you should close the forum now permanently.

Obviously other issues aren't going to go away so if that's your inclination, it won't get any better in your mind.

I offered a long time ago to administer this forum (with the caveat you could come back at any time and take it over or not) and that offer still stands.

I would not tolerate anything anti-gay either.

This is Murray's forum and he and only he should Admin it. Why would he give something he worked so hard for away? As far as becoming a mod or admin go that is not something I think should be asked for by members at a forum - when the admin sees someone right for the job he or she will ask them. (That's how I and others I know who admin do it).

On a more personal note should the above happen I want all my posts and any trace of my existence on this board removed....I agreed to post at Murray's HCF (or other type of) forum not on anything else. No offense but I don't want to be a part of another forum against my will that I didn't sign up for. If Murray is not the Admin there should not be a forum- that's my opinion.

[Horizon]

this is murray's forum and he and only he should admin it. Why would he give something he worked so hard for away? As far as becoming a mod or admin go that is not something i think should be asked for by members at a forum - when the admin sees someone right for the job he or she will ask them. (that's how i and others i know who admin do it).

On a more personal note should the above happen i want all my posts and any trace of my existence on this board removed....i agreed to post at murray's hcf (or other type of) forum not on anything else. No offense but i don't want to be a part of another forum against my will that i didn't sign up for. If murray is not the admin there should not be a forum- that's my opinion.


stamp!!!!

[TheTaoOfBill]

Is this comment necessary?

Not like she could read it anyway...at least not until you quoted it :rolleyes:

[Meg]

Not like she could read it anyway...at least not until you quoted it :rolleyes:

I was tempted to quote it... I must say. :p

[xfiles]

This is the kind of thing that I am talking about. Singling people out and ridiculing them. Part of the problem with my forum is that the server is upgrading and it runs slowly at times and is down at times. This discourages people from posting and participating. If you knew what you were talking about, it might have some validity, but you don't. Other forums are slow these days too and it will eventually pick up again there. Just like here, there are a few die hards posting over and over again. When you get right down to it, there aren't really that many posting here either. Just a lot of posts from the same people.

Is this comment necessary?

[xfiles]

Many of us long timers worked hard to make it what it was also. And Murray could come back as admin at any time if he wanted and someone else administered it. Fine, I think personally a lot of people should leave this forum because they are deteriorating it. People can, believe it or not, disagree and debate without sniping and criticizing INDIVIDUALS. Try it sometime.

This is Murray's forum and he and only he should Admin it. Why would he give something he worked so hard for away? As far as becoming a mod or admin go that is not something I think should be asked for by members at a forum - when the admin sees someone right for the job he or she will ask them. (That's how I and others I know who admin do it).

On a more personal note should the above happen I want all my posts and any trace of my existence on this board removed....I agreed to post at Murray's HCF (or other type of) forum not on anything else. No offense but I don't want to be a part of another forum against my will that I didn't sign up for. If Murray is not the Admin there should not be a forum- that's my opinion.

[Meg]

Many of us long timers worked hard to make it what it was also. And Murray could come back as admin at any time if he wanted and someone else administered it. Fine, I think personally a lot of people should leave this forum because they are deteriorating it. People can, believe it or not, disagree and debate without sniping and criticizing INDIVIDUALS. Try it sometime.

Well she for one, has not... so maybe you need to also try it sometime.


Oh and I have and guess what.. I'm not apologizing for any of it.

[xfiles]

She just DID? Did you not read what she said about Murray should not give this forum away? Many of us helped to make it what it was. Sure Murray deserves a lot of credit. Many have jumped ship. I have not because I think people can RESPECTIVELY DISAGREE. She criticized me by saying she'd leave if I administered. Why did that need to be said publically? I am sure Murray would not care who left or who stayed if he did let someone else administer. So, whose ears was that comment for? And if not to ridicule, then what was the purpose? JUST LEAVE. You don't have to announce reasons, esp. when it is a personal attack!

Well she for one, has not... so maybe you need to also try it sometime.


Oh and I have and guess what.. I'm not apologizing for any of it.

[Meg]

She just DID? Did you not read what she said about Murray should not give this forum away? Many of us helped to make it what it was. Sure Murray deserves a lot of credit. Many have jumped ship. I have not because I think people can RESPECTIVELY DISAGREE. She criticized me by saying she'd leave if I administered. Why did that need to be said publically? I am sure Murray would not care who left or who stayed if he did let someone else administer. So, whose ears was that comment for? And if not to ridicule, then what was the purpose? JUST LEAVE. You don't have to announce reasons, esp. when it is a personal attack!

She didn't attack you. She just doesn't think the forum being run by you would be her cup of tea. She thinks Murrya should be in charge of this forum, that's all. She never criticized you spefically, seems as though you took it personal!

How many other people left because of how Murray opened it up to Obama supporters... YES FOR THAT REASON ONLY!

Yes, some members may have helped but it was those same members that almost destroyed this forum on election night... or have you forgotten that too?

[TheTaoOfBill]

This is the kind of thing that I am talking about. Singling people out and ridiculing them. Part of the problem with my forum is that the server is upgrading and it runs slowly at times and is down at times. This discourages people from posting and participating. If you knew what you were talking about, it might have some validity, but you don't. Other forums are slow these days too and it will eventually pick up again there. Just like here, there are a few die hards posting over and over again. When you get right down to it, there aren't really that many posting here either. Just a lot of posts from the same people.

I just love it when you play victim. It's so cute.

We all know exactly how you feel about debates. You ignore anyone who disagrees with your extremely faulty logic. And if you were the admin of this forum the first thing you'd do is close it up again. You were marketing your forum as the place for people to go if they want a closed discussion. It's obvious why you want Murray to close this forum down and hand control to you. You don't want this place to be a place where Obama supporters can share their opinions.

[CGP]

Ok, I am doing the Brady Bunch intervention - quit it!! :cool:

There has been some back/forth bickering in the forum lately - not about issues, but about interpersonal dynamics.

It's mostly easier to not respond to posts which may be experienced as a personal attack. That then prevents a thread being hijacked by interpersonal conflicts.

Conflict about ISSUES is ok and to be expected.

Conflict about INTERPERSONAL DNYAMICS is best dealt with by silence or PM.

[Horizon]

I just love it when you play victim. It's so cute.

We all know exactly how you feel about debates. You ignore anyone who disagrees with your extremely faulty logic. And if you were the admin of this forum the first thing you'd do is close it up again. You were marketing your forum as the place for people to go if they want a closed discussion. It's obvious why you want Murray to close this forum down and hand control to you. You don't want this place to be a place where Obama supporters can share their opinions.

I have to agree here. This would become another echo chamber and there is already one of those that you all post in, so why are you itching to run this one too?? Many people would leave if this happened, which I'm quite sure it won't.

And yes, nice victim role. You are just as guilty as anyone of crap throwing.

[CGP]

Ok, I am doing the Brady Bunch intervention - quit it!! :cool:

There has been some back/forth bickering in the forum lately - not about issues, but about interpersonal dynamics.

It's mostly easier to not respond to posts which may be experienced as a personal attack. That then prevents a thread being hijacked by interpersonal conflicts.

Conflict about ISSUES is ok and to be expected.

Conflict about INTERPERSONAL DNYAMICS is best dealt with by silence or PM.

Quoting myself. Again.

[Horizon]

Quoting myself. Again.

We posted at the same time. Sorry, going to look at Hot Rob pics to cool off.

[xfiles]

Send it to me in a PM as I suggested before and which now Murray is suggesting. If someone doesn't like a forum and/or those on it, they should just leave. And no I don't think the forum was nearly destroyed on election nite by anyone. A lot of confusion, yes, but destruction, no.

She didn't attack you. She just doesn't think the forum being run by you would be her cup of tea. She thinks Murrya should be in charge of this forum, that's all. She never criticized you spefically, seems as though you took it personal!

How many other people left because of how Murray opened it up to Obama supporters... YES FOR THAT REASON ONLY!

Yes, some members may have helped but it was those same members that almost destroyed this forum on election night... or have you forgotten that too?

[Meg]

Quoting myself. Again.


Sorry Muzza... you know sometimes there's a point where people really do need to stfu... some more than others. :o Yes, I know me included!

But, don't think this is just going to be swept under the rug, that's the reason for the passive agressive posts here.;)

[ZY123]

Sorry Muzza... you know sometimes there's a point where people really do need to stfu... some more than others. :o Yes, I know me included!

But, don't think this is just going to be swept under the rug, that's the reason for the passive agressive posts here.;)

Yes...and honestly based on this and the anti-gay post problem I almost think we should just close (Murray you know what I mean so no offense. :)). This rift will never be settled - I will never forget what they did to me (including people in this very thread) and if I did I would be disrespecting myself.

MEG - don't talk about me in PM with anyone. What I do or think is no one's business unless I make it their business.

[xfiles]

I don't know who "they" are or what they did to you (don't know your former name here either), but what would that have to do with closing? You could just leave. PM me if you like.

Yes...and honestly based on this and the anti-gay post problem I almost think we should just close (Murray you know what I mean so no offense. :)). This rift will never be settled - I will never forget what they did to me and if I did I would be disrespecting myself.

MEG - don't talk about me in PM with anyone. What I do or think is no one's business unless I make it their business.

[Meg]

Yes...and honestly based on this and the anti-gay post problem I almost think we should just close (Murray you know what I mean so no offense. :)). This rift will never be settled - I will never forget what they did to me (including people in this very thread) and if I did I would be disrespecting myself.

MEG - don't talk about me in PM with anyone. What I do or think is no one's business unless I make it their business.

LOL there's enough about me to talk about without dragging you into it! :p;)

[ZY123]

LOL there's enough about me to talk about without dragging you into it! :p;)

OK! PM away! lol. :p

(BTW...this thread has just proven my reasoning for not posting as much was solid.)

[Ikasu]

Not like she could read it anyway...at least not until you quoted it :rolleyes:

Sorry that I'm not keeping track of who has who on ignore.

[Horizon]

Sorry that I'm not keeping track of who has who on ignore.

****shrugs*****
I thought we all were!

[Meg]

****shrugs*****
I thought we all were!

I'm not... surprisingly. :confused:

[devildog]

Ok, I am doing the Brady Bunch intervention - quit it!! :cool:

There has been some back/forth bickering in the forum lately - not about issues, but about interpersonal dynamics.

It's mostly easier to not respond to posts which may be experienced as a personal attack. That then prevents a thread being hijacked by interpersonal conflicts.

Conflict about ISSUES is ok and to be expected.

Conflict about INTERPERSONAL DNYAMICS is best dealt with by silence or PM.

Thank GOD. Where's the friggin applause smiley?

[Meg]

Thank GOD. Where's the friggin applause smiley?

For you.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_55.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)
http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb096&pp=ZNxdm824YYUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb096_ZNxdm824YYUS&utm_id=7924)

[VotingHillary]

I have Mary on ignore and would have not even responded to your quote of hers but I wanted to make an example of it.

I've been a member of this forum almost since it's inception and I want to give it a chance to survive with dignity so don't criticize me for staying! :mad:

This is why I want Murray as the lone moderator/adminstrator. There is some real bad blood between Hillary/Palin supporters and Hillary/give Obama a chance supporters.

As far as banning anyone, I leave that to Murray and Murray alone.

[Horizon]

This is why I want Murray as the lone moderator/adminstrator. There is some real bad blood between Hillary/Palin supporters and Hillary/give Obama a chance supporters.

As far as banning anyone, I leave that to Murray and Murray alone.

I agree. He seems to be the lone voice of reason.

[ZY123]

Here's my question to everyone holding on to this forum.

I think we all agree HCF was a great forum and a part of history during primaries. It was a place of positive purpose and served its members well. The HCF of the primaries is something to remember always.

However, things have changed and the original group has split. Things happen and there were two differing opinions on direction..honestly there's nothing wrong with that.

However, if we continue HCF even under a different name do we preserve or reduce the positive role HCF played in the primaries?

In addition, with these two diametrically opposed groups as well as the Obama and Republican groups how do we move forward without just harping on and on about topics that have no resolution or direction since the differences are fundamental?

[CGP]

However, if we continue HCF even under a different name do we preserve or reduce the positive role HCF played in the primaries?

In addition, with these two diametrically opposed groups as well as the Obama and Republican groups how do we move forward without just harping on and on about topics that have no resolution or direction since the differences are fundamental?

Don't know the answers, but the questions are good ones.

[Spang]

I think if everyone would just support their person or persons and debate the issues, this place would be a lot better than it already is. If a person wants to be anti-anybody, they got forums for that stuff. In a forum that seeks common ground, I don't think hate helps. A picture of a dog pissing on an Obama campaign sign in a signature is not at all different than a person having a picture of that speechwriter groping a cardboard representation of Hillary Clinton in a signature.

[CGP]

A picture of a dog pissing on an Obama campaign sign in a signature .

That one is gone.

[ZY123]

I think if everyone would just support their person or persons and debate the issues, this place would be a lot better than it already is. If a person wants to be anti-anybody, they got forums for that stuff. In a forum that seeks common ground, I don't think hate helps. A picture of a dog pissing on an Obama campaign sign in a signature is not at all different than a person having a picture of that speechwriter groping a cardboard representation of Hillary Clinton in a signature.

That addresses the second question but what about this one:

However, if we continue HCF even under a different name do we preserve or reduce the positive role HCF played in the primaries?

[Spang]

That one is gone.

Outstanding! Thank you.

[Ikasu]

Outstanding! Thank you.

Had to tell the teacher. :rolleyes::p

[Spang]

That addresses the second question but what about this one:

However, if we continue HCF even under a different name do we preserve or reduce the positive role HCF played in the primaries?

The more positive the better, I'd say. Don't stop being positive. maintain or escalate the positivity.

[Meg]

I think once the level of hate both personally and politically has a little bit more time to cool. We'll be able to do more. Some more than others have gotten a pissed off at SOME members on this forum. But in due time it'll be pushed to the back burner.

NO that does not mean close down! :eek:

[VotingHillary]

Here's my question to everyone holding on to this forum.

I think we all agree HCF was a great forum and a part of history during primaries. It was a place of positive purpose and served its members well. The HCF of the primaries is something to remember always.

However, things have changed and the original group has split. Things happen and there were two differing opinions on direction..honestly there's nothing wrong with that.

However, if we continue HCF even under a different name do we preserve or reduce the positive role HCF played in the primaries?

In addition, with these two diametrically opposed groups as well as the Obama and Republican groups how do we move forward without just harping on and on about topics that have no resolution or direction since the differences are fundamental?

But that is exactly the point of CommonGround...and why I do still think this should be the name of this forum. No, it is no longer a soley Hillary forum by the choice of the adminstrator. This is his forum and his choice alone to determine. Does it reduce her role in the primary? History, not any internet forum, will decide what role Hillary played in the primaries and its true historical context.

My heart and my loyalty will always be with Hillary. I truly feel America blew it once again by electing the inexperienced, but much better Madison Avenue packaged candidate. But, the election is over, the people have spoken. With everything going wrong in this country, we better find common ground...or we will find ourselves come 2012 standing on Chinese soil because they played their trump card while we bickered the petty...China will call in our debt and the only thing we will have of value to repay it is our land...our money is worth no more right now than the paper it is printed on.

I am not nor will I ever move away from Hillary. But like her, I am moving on, I am moving forward...and I am moving on happily seated in the new bus she is driving as SOS.

[Horizon]

The more positive the better, I'd say. Don't stop being positive. maintain or escalate the positivity.

But can we maintain/escalate the positive and somehow downplay the negative tone,without pissing everyone off? I know that for myself, I have chosen to move on from the negative and so have a few others, but there are a lot that are still holding on to the very negative aspects and not letting go of them.
What do we do about that? Nicely?

[xfiles]

Moderators are treated differently (admins too) because they hold power. And vice versa. I am pretty fair and easy to get along with but I don't like disrespect and personal attacks/remarks. I don't think that is too unusual.

Also, the forum can be a good one if people will quit attacking others, making snide remarks about the PERSON posting and engage in professsional debate.

But there is not going to be agreement among some. It just isn't possible.

I think the forum name should remain as it is or with Hillary's name in the title because she was the reason the forum was founded, she is going to be SOS and have a great influence there, and she is one person among very few who really does try to be concilatory and find "common ground" as much as possible.



This is why I want Murray as the lone moderator/adminstrator. There is some real bad blood between Hillary/Palin supporters and Hillary/give Obama a chance supporters.

As far as banning anyone, I leave that to Murray and Murray alone.

[Spang]

But can we maintain/escalate the positive and somehow downplay the negative tone,without pissing everyone off? I know that for myself, I have chosen to move on from the negative and so have a few others, but there are a lot that are still holding on to the very negative aspects and not letting go of them.
What do we do about that? Nicely?

The atmosphere of any forum is set by the people who participate in it. The name won't change the atmosphere. It will help achieve the goal of common ground, however. People can still support Hillary or Obama or Palin or whoever. The positive support towards Hillary will be as strong as this community wants it to be.

[ZY123]

Don't know the answers, but the questions are good ones.


I think sometimes the hardest thing to do is realize when it's time to make something a memory. Being a memory is not a bad thing at all IMO...in fact it can be quite a positive thing - especially considering what we as a group did here during the primaries. I think with these things timing is everything and it's almost like finding the right time to say: "this is something I will always remember and cherish but no longer goes forward with the original purpose." Kind of like having a mental picture or feeling of what it was and talking about it years later: "I was on one of the biggest PUMA boards of that time..." I truly think Hillary will be written in history as the one that took the first difficult strides towards a woman being President - she will be seen as a pioneer as such IMO. I think to continue with her name takes away from the memory and positive place in the campaign...JMO.

I understand people want to stay together and I like the idea of it but sometimes I think things (personally) go so far beyond the point of no return that it's un-catchable. In terms of differences of direction and opinion I think that may be the case. I do think Common Ground would be very possible with a group of NEW people - but too much has happened with the current group for it to be even a remote possibility IMO.

I do like Common Ground and think it would work with the right group of people, I'm just not sure that's the group here right now. Perhaps if the Hillary stuff was archived and preserved and just the Common Ground stuff showed up as going forward I don't know.

(sorry for rambling)

[CGP]

I think sometimes the hardest thing to do is realize when it's time to make something a memory.

Yes, this idea was the motivation for this thread. It's kind of like knowing when to retire - when you are still on top of your game, or when the game is pretty much over, or when are your not sure which of these is the case!

I swing between thinking shutting down is for the best, and then thinking continuing on is for the best.

It's difficult to make a unilateral decision based on my own thoughts/feelings, so I open the topic up to others to hear what others have to say. And usually it doesn't help as I see the same mixed responses that are already going through my own mind anyway!

[RE:]

Perhaps if the Hillary stuff was archived and preserved and just the Common Ground stuff showed up as going forward I don't know.
STAMP

Sometimes you just need knew surroundings to have a different way of thinking, so (IMO) having all the HRC memorabilia around is like trying to hold on to something that may not be in the future. I used to think that we needed to keep HCF alive so we could plan for HRC in 2012, but I just don't see that happening now. If it does, I'll be the first in line to rejoin all of you here at HCF, but until then....I think you need new digs, with fresh paint and a new name, then and only then will you know if Common Ground can really be acheived.

[VotingHillary]

I think sometimes the hardest thing to do is realize when it's time to make something a memory. Being a memory is not a bad thing at all IMO...in fact it can be quite a positive thing - especially considering what we as a group did here during the primaries. I think with these things timing is everything and it's almost like finding the right time to say: "this is something I will always remember and cherish but no longer goes forward with the original purpose." Kind of like having a mental picture or feeling of what it was and talking about it years later: "I was on one of the biggest PUMA boards of that time..." I truly think Hillary will be written in history as the one that took the first difficult strides towards a woman being President - she will be seen as a pioneer as such IMO. I think to continue with her name takes away from the memory and positive place in the campaign...JMO.

I understand people want to stay together and I like the idea of it but sometimes I think things (personally) go so far beyond the point of no return that it's un-catchable. In terms of differences of direction and opinion I think that may be the case. I do think Common Ground would be very possible with a group of NEW people - but too much has happened with the current group for it to be even a remote possibility IMO.

I do like Common Ground and think it would work with the right group of people, I'm just not sure that's the group here right now. Perhaps if the Hillary stuff was archived and preserved and just the Common Ground stuff showed up as going forward I don't know.

(sorry for rambling)

as "rambles" go, you are quite the articulate rambler. ;)

[Spang]

I swing between thinking shutting down is for the best

I would ask that you don't shut down the forum, please.

[CGP]

STAMP

Sometimes you just need knew surroundings to have a different way of thinking, so (IMO) having all the HRC memorabilia around is like trying to hold on to something that may not be in the future. I used to think that we needed to keep HCF alive so we could plan for HRC in 2012, but I just don't see that happening now. If it does, I'll be the first in line to rejoin all of you here at HCF, but until then....I think you need new digs, with fresh paint and a new name, then and only then will you know if Common Ground can really be acheived.

It's very easy to do.

Simply make all the old subforums unviewable.

[ZY123]

Yes, this idea was the motivation for this thread. It's kind of like knowing when to retire - when you are still on top of your game, or when the game is pretty much over, or when are your not sure which of these is the case!

I swing between thinking shutting down is for the best, and then thinking continuing on is for the best.

It's difficult to make a unilateral decision based on my own thoughts/feelings, so I open the topic up to others to hear what others have to say. And usually it doesn't help as I see the same mixed responses that are already going through my own mind anyway!

I think it's always best to go when you're on top of your game (for us that was after Plan A but hey we're still pretty far up there. ;)). Honestly I think you should go with your gut feeling, that's usually the right one in these situations.

[VotingHillary]

Yes, this idea was the motivation for this thread. It's kind of like knowing when to retire - when you are still on top of your game, or when the game is pretty much over, or when are your not sure which of these is the case!

I swing between thinking shutting down is for the best, and then thinking continuing on is for the best.

It's difficult to make a unilateral decision based on my own thoughts/feelings, so I open the topic up to others to hear what others have to say. And usually it doesn't help as I see the same mixed responses that are already going through my own mind anyway!

As a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, may I offer the following advice..."When in doubt...PUNT!"

[Meg]

STAMP

Sometimes you just need knew surroundings to have a different way of thinking, so (IMO) having all the HRC memorabilia around is like trying to hold on to something that may not be in the future. I used to think that we needed to keep HCF alive so we could plan for HRC in 2012, but I just don't see that happening now. If it does, I'll be the first in line to rejoin all of you here at HCF, but until then....I think you need new digs, with fresh paint and a new name, then and only then will you know if Common Ground can really be acheived.

I'm Stamping you Stamp! We know who we supported and it certain hasn't waivered. I think if common ground is going to move forward the BO vs. Hillary/McCain/Palin stuff needs to go.

Fresh start to a unknown future. :o

[Horizon]

STAMP

Sometimes you just need knew surroundings to have a different way of thinking, so (IMO) having all the HRC memorabilia around is like trying to hold on to something that may not be in the future. I used to think that we needed to keep HCF alive so we could plan for HRC in 2012, but I just don't see that happening now. If it does, I'll be the first in line to rejoin all of you here at HCF, but until then....I think you need new digs, with fresh paint and a new name, then and only then will you know if Common Ground can really be acheived.

I agree with this. It does tend to make some lean towards an "us" against "them" attitude.

[RE:]

I would ask that you don't shut down the forum, please.Awww Spang...there are always other places we all can meet up. Really. It's ok.:)

[VotingHillary]

I would ask that you don't shut down the forum, please.

Spang, if you will allow me the honor, I would second that and ask for a floor vote...or at least a polling?

[Spang]

Awww Spang...there are always other places we all can meet up. Really. It's ok.:)

Where? This is all I know.

[ZY123]

Sometimes you just need knew surroundings to have a different way of thinking, so (IMO) having all the HRC memorabilia around is like trying to hold on to something that may not be in the future. I used to think that we needed to keep HCF alive so we could plan for HRC in 2012, but I just don't see that happening now. If it does, I'll be the first in line to rejoin all of you here at HCF, but until then....I think you need new digs, with fresh paint and a new name, then and only then will you know if Common Ground can really be acheived.

I think so....a fresh start with a new furnishings and fresh introductions may be the key. I think we had something beyond great here during the primaries, something I think should be archived and preserved as the great thing it was.

[Horizon]

I would ask that you don't shut down the forum, please.

****rubs spangs shoulders****

It's ok buddy, we'll all come together somewhere else if that happens.

We would actually miss you.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[CGP]

Where? This is all I know.

Thousands of forums around, if not millions!

Obviously some are more active and functional than others.

[Spang]

Thousands of forums around, if not millions!

Obviously some are more active and functional than others.

With the same people as this place?

[RE:]

It's very easy to do.

Simply make all the old subforums unviewable.I would add...all memory...our names, our ranks, when we joined...complete fresh start. All new registrants. Be rid of the 5777 members. Many of them aren't really 'members' anyway...thery're just part of the number.

[CGP]

With the same people as here?

No 2 forums are the same.

Of course there are people from here who post on others forums.

But every single forum, from small to massive, is unique in its own way.

[ZY123]

I would add...all memory...our names, our ranks, when we joined...complete fresh start. All new registrants. Be rid of the 5777 members. Many of them aren't really 'members' anyway...thery're just part of the number.

I 100% agree. New names everyone starts out fresh - no "status". We can even re-introduce ourselves.

[Ikasu]

You guys are depressing me. :(

[CGP]

I would add...all memory...our names, our ranks, when we joined...complete fresh start. All new registrants. Be rid of the 5777 members. Many of them aren't really 'members' anyway...thery're just part of the number.

That's not really possible, technically. And I wouldn't want to erase the past as though it didn't happen. The most I would do is place all past content in private/unviewable archives.

With your suggestions it would make more sense to completely close this forum and invite everyone to a new space that had no history. Which is possible, but I am not sure I want to do that.

[Meg]

I would add...all memory...our names, our ranks, when we joined...complete fresh start. All new registrants. Be rid of the 5777 members. Many of them aren't really 'members' anyway...thery're just part of the number.

That's true... be rid of the "newbies" and" longtime" There's reason those have gotten us into trouble.

Let's let others help make Common ground what HCF was during the primaries.

[Spang]

No 2 forums are the same.

Of course there are people from here who post on others forums.

But every single forum, from small to massive, is unique in its own way.

I'm aware of that, but I've grown accustomed to the people who regularly post here. I went to like 12 different schools growing up as a kid. If I ever get married and have kids, I'm never moving. If my wife (who I haven't met, yet) wants to move, she can do that. But me and the kids are staying put until they graduate. If I could stay with all of you fine folks, that would be kick ass.

[CGP]

You guys are depressing me. :(

The "are we breaking up discussion" ? ;)

[sadie]

But can we maintain/escalate the positive and somehow downplay the negative tone,without pissing everyone off? I know that for myself, I have chosen to move on from the negative and so have a few others, but there are a lot that are still holding on to the very negative aspects and not letting go of them.
What do we do about that? Nicely?

I'm a little confused by this. Are you talking about negativity in the anti-Obama sense or the interpersonal negativity? Or both?

Re: Obama, there needs to be at least an understanding that people are in different places. Personally, the reasons I didn't support him and did not vote for him did not disappear once he was elected. He still doesn't have my support and he largely doesn't speak for me or to the things that are important to me...but I'm over the extreme negativity. Will I still be critical? Sure. His myriad press conferences haven't done anything to change my mind. I am pleased with a couple of his cabinet appointments but am not impressed for the most part.

Also, and this really addresses the interpersonal negativity, the assumptions about where people stand ideologically need to stop. I happen to be a Hispanic who believes illegal immigrants shouldn't get a free pass in this country. I am a religious (and again, Hispanic) person who voted no on Prop 8. I am not a democrat or a republican and don't appreciate when my views and opinions are categorized by left or right, dem or repub. I am guilty of this too but I try to ask questions more than I make assumptions.

Whew. Needed to vent! I'm done now. Carry on :)

[Meg]

You guys are depressing me. :(

I'm depressed too. :( Thanks Zhaan! ;)

The "are we breaking up discussion" ? ;)

Majorly! :(

[Ikasu]

The "are we breaking up discussion" ? ;)

Yes! I've grown attached to this place.

[ZY123]

With your suggestions it would make more sense to completely close this forum and invite everyone to a new space that had no history.

Personally, I like this. This is how I see it - I see your HCF archive as still sitting here at this site as a place for people who want to research what happened during the primaries to be able to do so at. They can see the people behind the movement as well as the articles and facts of the movement itself. That's what I mean by making it a memory - not just to us in our minds but a living memory we can look at and revisit as well. :)

[Horizon]

I'm a little confused by this. Are you talking about negativity in the anti-Obama sense or the interpersonal negativity? Or both?

Re: Obama, there needs to be at least an understanding that people are in different places. Personally, the reasons I didn't support him and did not vote for him did not disappear once he was elected. He still doesn't have my support and he largely doesn't speak for me or to the things that are important to me...but I'm over the extreme negativity. Will I still be critical? Sure. His myriad press conferences haven't done anything to change my mind. I am pleased with a couple of his cabinet appointments but am not impressed for the most part.

Also, and this really addresses the interpersonal negativity, the assumptions about where people stand ideologically need to stop. I happen to be a Hispanic who believes illegal immigrants shouldn't get a free pass in this country. I am a religious (and again, Hispanic) person who voted no on Prop 8. I am not a democrat or a republican and don't appreciate when my views and opinions are categorized by left or right, dem or repub. I am guilty of this too but I try to ask questions more than I make assumptions.

Whew. Needed to vent! I'm done now. Carry on :)

Your good sadie!!! I meant both I guess, but more so the anti Obama crap, that leads to the HRC people attacking the Obama people PERSONALLY. That really gets my goat. I see it like shooting the messenger. Not fair at all and not at all what I want them to see Hillary supporters as being like.

[Meg]

Personally, I like this. This is how I see it - I see your HCF archive as still sitting here at this site as a place for people who want to research what happened during the primaries to be able to do so at. They can see the people behind the movement as well as the articles and facts of the movement itself. That's what I mean by making it a memory - not just to us in our minds but a living memory we can look at and revisit as well. :)

Ok you are like forbidden from posting anymore today! You guys are making me sad! :p:(

[CGP]

I'm a little confused by this. Are you talking about negativity in the anti-Obama sense or the interpersonal negativity? Or both?

Re: Obama, there needs to be at least an understanding that people are in different places. Personally, the reasons I didn't support him and did not vote for him did not disappear once he was elected. He still doesn't have my support and he largely doesn't speak for me or to the things that are important to me...but I'm over the extreme negativity. Will I still be critical? Sure. His myriad press conferences haven't done anything to change my mind. I am pleased with a couple of his cabinet appointments but am not impressed for the most part.

Also, and this really addresses the interpersonal negativity, the assumptions about where people stand ideologically need to stop. I happen to be a Hispanic who believes illegal immigrants shouldn't get a free pass in this country. I am a religious (and again, Hispanic) person who voted no on Prop 8. I am not a democrat or a republican and don't appreciate when my views and opinions are categorized by left or right, dem or repub. I am guilty of this too but I try to ask questions more than I make assumptions.

Whew. Needed to vent! I'm done now. Carry on :)

Yes, I think there are some key distinctions which you have alluded to.

Opposition to Obama has been mixed in and confused with interpersonal conflict. They are not and should not be one and the same thing.

People should feel free to criticize the president of the USA. If they can't do that, what is this place (USA), the land where thou shalt not criticize the latest dictator?

What I see as having been the most problematic issue is the interpersonal conflicts between members, not so much the differences in political opinion.

And on some rare occasions (mostly gay rights issues), there have been some fundemantal disagreements which have seemed impossible to resolve. Sometimes agreement and co-existence in the same space is impossible. That's why fences were invented! (well I made that last part up).

[ZY123]

The "are we breaking up discussion" ? ;)

I don't see it that way at all - I see it as the "What's best for the Hillary movement we created?" discussion.

(I think people just don't like change - and I feel that way too...part of me wants it to stay here just because but a bigger part of me thinks it's time to archive the positive things we did.)

[RE:]

That's not really possible, technically. And I wouldn't want to erase the past as though it didn't happen. The most I would do is place all past content in private/unviewable archives.

With your suggestions it would make more sense to completely close this forum and invite everyone to a new space that had no history. Which is possible, but I am not sure I want to do that.And I ABSOLUTELY would not want you to. I'm not a techie, but could you keep this viewable and accessable to people who want it for informational purposes? No more posting...maybe turning it into a blog? THEN, open up a new space/website to try out your Common Ground idea?

Just a thought...

[CGP]

Personally, I like this. This is how I see it - I see your HCF archive as still sitting here at this site as a place for people who want to research what happened during the primaries to be able to do so at. They can see the people behind the movement as well as the articles and facts of the movement itself. That's what I mean by making it a memory - not just to us in our minds but a living memory we can look at and revisit as well. :)

Would be like "HCF - R.I.P - February 9, 2008 to December 31, 2008" :(

[Meg]

Would be like "HCF - R.I.P - February 9, 2008 to December 31, 2008" :(

How about come January 20, 2009 we officially move on? Transition with transition? PLEASE! :(

[Horizon]

Would be like "HCF - R.I.P - February 9, 2008 to December 31, 2008" :(

Can't we just name change, do a purge and go from there? I mean purge as in, crap! You know what I mean!!!

[Spang]

Would be like "HCF - R.I.P - February 9, 2008 to December 31, 2008" :(

Hillary Clinton Forum Archives

[ZY123]

Would be like "HCF - R.I.P - February 9, 2008 to December 31, 2008" :(


LOL...no! More like: Feb 9, 2008 - August 26, 2008 - The historic candidacy of Hillary Clinton and the movement it inspired.

[CGP]

LOL...no! More like: Feb 9, 2008 - August 26, 2008 - The historic candidacy and movement of Hillary Clinton

The post August 26 stuff til now is also part of the HCF rollercoaster!! ;)

[RE:]

LOL...no! More like: Feb 9, 2008 - August 26, 2008 - The historic candidacy of Hillary Clinton and the movement it inspired. Yes:cool:

[MrSandMan]

Wait, I'm confused. Are you thinking about closing shop? If so, why?

[CGP]

Going to a completely new zone/space and starting afresh won't stop people from importing the same conflicts that are present here. It will be a new environment, yes, but many of the same people and dynamics.

[RE:]

Wait, I'm confused. Are you thinking about closing shop? If so, why?Sorry, but...LOL!

[ZY123]

The post August 26 stuff til now is also part of the HCF rollercoaster!! ;)

hahahaha...I was hoping I could slip that date by you. Perhaps divide the archive into three parts - Primaries, Plan B, and post mortum.

[ZY123]

Going to a completely new zone/space and starting afresh won't stop people from importing the same conflicts that are present here. It will be a new environment, yes, but many of the same people and dynamics.

I'm not so sure - I think many people are hanging onto the hope that this will remain HCF and stay only for that reason. I don't think those people will move to the new location. I also think getting rid of the "statues" will work wonders...put everyone on equal footing.

[CGP]

Wait, I'm confused. Are you thinking about closing shop? If so, why?

Well, speaking of "shop", revenue (lackthereof) is one major problem.

The Hillary supporters (& anti-Obama crowd) were very motivated to keep this forum going and the montly server bill was always paid with relative ease.

Now, not so. No-one is donating anything to cover costs - in the past 40 days only $10 was donated. >$300/month (dedicated server bill) is not something I can cover on an ongoing basis and yet I am never going to beg people for donations. I never had to with the former crowd. I would sooner close up shop than ask people to "help out".

[MrSandMan]

I nominate TheTaoOfBill to be Moderator. Who's with me?

[CGP]

Perhaps divide the archive into three parts - Primaries, Plan B, and post mortum.

Actually, I see merit in that.

But it would be very time consuming wading through all the threads sorting them into 3 categories.

[RE:]

Going to a completely new zone/space and starting afresh won't stop people from importing the same conflicts that are present here. It will be a new environment, yes, but many of the same people and dynamics.You don't know for sure unless you try.;)

If people follow you to a new zone, it will be because of the new direction and NOT because of the memory/addiction they have for HCF.

[CGP]

I nominate TheTaoOfBill to be Moderator. Who's with me?

Bill is a good forum contributor, but I am not looking to nominate new mods at this time.

[ZY123]

Well, speaking of "shop", revenue (lackthereof) is one major problem.

The Hillary supporters (& anti-Obama crowd) were very motivated to keep this forum going and the montly server bill was always paid with relative ease.

Now, not so. No-one is donating anything to cover costs - in the past 40 days only $10 was donated. >$300/month (dedicated server bill) is not something I can cover on an ongoing basis and yet I am never going to beg people for donations. I never had to with the former crowd. I would sooner close up shop than ask people to "help out".

Do you still need the expensive server? That's the other thing - I think smaller is a lot of times better - not teeny tiny but smaller.

I'll be honest - the interpersonal conflicts and the happenings of 11/04/08 are what have kept me from donating. :(

[ZY123]

You don't know for sure unless you try.;)

If people follow you to a new zone, it will be because of the new direction and NOT because of the memory/addiction they have for HCF.

Yes! You are on a roll tonight RE! And I'm liking all your ideas. :D

[Spang]

Yes! You are on a roll tonight RE! And I'm liking all your ideas. :D

I think it's the snow.

[MrSandMan]

Well, speaking of "shop", revenue (lackthereof) is one major problem.

The Hillary supporters (& anti-Obama crowd) were very motivated to keep this forum going and the montly server bill was always paid with relative ease.

Now, not so. No-one is donating anything to cover costs - in the past 40 days only $10 was donated. >$300/month (dedicated server bill) is not something I can cover on an ongoing basis and yet I am never going to beg people for donations. I never had to with the former crowd. I would sooner close up shop than ask people to "help out".

Do you really need a dedicated server? I have 8 of my websites on Hostgator, costs me $25 month to operate. Granted, my traffic is under 2,500 daily.

You should also have adwords on the site, it helps out a lot... Just a thought.

[CGP]

Do you still need the expensive server? That's the other thing - I think smaller is a lot of times better - not teeny tiny but smaller.

I'll be honest - the interpersonal conflicts and the happenings of 11/04/08 are what have kept me from donating. :(

It it becomes a viewing forum only, I will switch to something much much smaller and less expensive, and something which I can cover independently.

[xfiles]

If you do anything of all the ideas tossed out, I think making it a viewing forum only is a great idea. Others who want a new forum and direction can start one. That would probably be the best way to go.

[CGP]

Do you really need a dedicated server? I have 8 of my websites on Hostgator, costs me $25 month to operate. Granted, my traffic is under 2,500 daily.

You should also have adwords on the site, it helps out a lot... Just a thought.

Mmmm....ask the oldtimers, when we weren't on a dedicated server the forum speed (well, slowness) was agonizing with hourly "database errors" as the traffic exceeded what the shared server could cope with. And admid/monderation was hellish. If we couldn't move to a dedicated server I was giving up as the speed was unbearably slow for me as admin. At it's peak HCF had an excellent Alexa ranking and was getting heavy traffic. Now things are much slower in terms of traffic, but the dedicated server definitely helps make the actual technical experience reasonably pain free.

[RE:]

Yes! You are on a roll tonight RE! And I'm liking all your ideas. :DHA!! Everytime I scroll up after posting, you basically have already beat me to the punch...

Now I know it's a money issue.:( Thanks for being honest, Murray.

[ZY123]

Mmmm....ask the oldtimers, when we weren't on a dedicated server the forum speed (well, slowness) was agonizing with hourly "database errors" as the traffic exceeded what the shared server could cope with. And admid/monderation was hellish. If we couldn't move to a dedicated server I was giving up as the speed was unbearably slow for me as admin.

But traffic is less now....I think you could get something decent for about $50/month possibly. So let's say you start Common Ground at a new location - do what you did here...start small...then if traffic increases and necessity arises then get the good server.

[MrSandMan]

It it becomes a viewing forum only, I will switch to something much much smaller and less expensive, and something which I can cover independently.

VB also allows you, as admin, to set up special features for donating members. Such as PM bandwidth/space, avatar, signatures and etc... You can also make a "donating members only board" on the forum. That's great feature that I like about VB.

[RE:]

I think it's the snow.LOL...The snow was gone when I woke up this morning...what you saw on the news today was 24 hours old...stupid MSM. It was so much colder today without a single cloud in the sky. It was beautiful.

Sorry...RAGING COCONUTS!!:o

[CGP]

Now I know it's a money issue.:( Thanks for being honest, Murray.

Well, not entirely. That's just one of many reasons.

[Spang]

I'd like to support this endeavor financially, but I want to make sure it's not going to be place for people to hate on Obama and his supporters. I will not support that. Also, I want to make sure whatever it is, is going to be here in a week.

[CGP]

VB also lets you, as admin, to set up special features, such as PM bandwidth, avatar, signatures and etc... Many forums offer a donating members "extra benefits" and even their a "members only forum". That's great feature that I like about VB.

Yes, we resisted that in the past. People didn't like the concept of charging members a fee, and I didn't like it much either. So we just relied on donations from whoever wanted to make them. We never had a problem.

[CGP]

I'd like to support this endeavor financially, but I want to make sure it's not going to be place for people to hate on Obama and his supporters. I will not support that. Also, I want to make sure whatever it is, is going to be here in a week.

Don't do it now.

Not when things are in limbo.

If there is a definite future, I will make that clear.

Until then, hold your wallet tight!

[MrSandMan]

Yes, we resisted that in the past. People didn't like the concept of charging members a fee, and I didn't like it much either. So we just relied on donations from whoever wanted to make them. We never had a problem.

It's not a membership fee parse`. It's extra benefits for donating members.

Regular members still get the basics...

(I edited my above post to be more clear)

Check this out http://www.hostgator.com/resellers.shtml

[RE:]

I'd like to support this endeavor financially, but I want to make sure it's not going to be place for people to hate on Obama and his supporters. I will not support that. Also, I want to make sure whatever it is, is going to be here in a week.

Don't do it now.

Not when things are in limbo.

If there is a definite future, I will make that clear.

Until then, hold your wallet tight!

Take it from me, I donated the day or two before last months closure!:eek: I thought to myself, at the time, what the hell??...

[G'aal]

I didn't read through the entire thread, but for what it's worth, I think this forum has absolutely moved in the direction it had to go. It can still be what it's trying to be, if given time. I like the discussions and the debates, even with certain link-obsessed Obama haters ;).

I do think it's time to move on with respect to the name. Definitely keep the site pro-Hillary in deference to her and the forum's roots (i.e., no Hillary bashing allowed), but officially change to "Common Ground Politics" in every other regard. I only saw a little of the archives discussion, but that sounds like a good way to go as well.

Murray, nobody wants you to have to dip into your own pocket to keep this open. I'd help as well, if you decide to remain up and running. I think you'll find plenty of us willing to do so. I don't think you should feel like it's akin to begging or anything along those lines. Keeping this open costs money and we're all benefitting from it, so sharing the wealth (so to speak) will be viewed by quite a number of us as fair.

[ZY123]

Actually, I see merit in that.

But it would be very time consuming wading through all the threads sorting them into 3 categories.

I think it would be worth it. :)

[CGP]

I think it would be worth it. :)

It would make it clear this forum had 3 very distinct phases:

Phase 1 (Feb to June/July): Hillary active & active pro-hillary support period

Phase 2 (July/August to Election day): Hillary suspends...invasion by Republicans...growth of the anti-obama crew

Phase 3 (Nov to Dec): Post election meltdown and temporary resurrection!

[G'aal]

It's not a membership fee parse`. It's extra benefits for donating members.

Regular members still get the basics...

(I edited my above post to be more clear)

Check this out http://www.hostgator.com/resellers.shtml

Yes, another forum I belong to does this. It works well. I'd guess somewhere between 10-20% donate and get the extra benefits. Those benefits include priority connections during peak hours (when the server is otherwise overwhelmed), special titles/recognition, an email account, access to a games section that non-paying members do not get, some special fonts, etc. for username designs and a couple of real-life benefits as well.

[ZY123]

It would make it clear this forum had 3 very distinct phases:

Phase 1 (Feb to June/July): Hillary active & active pro-hillary support period

Phase 2 (July/August to Election day): Hillary suspends...invasion by Republicans...growth of the anti-obama crew

Phase 3 (Nov to Dec): Post election meltdown and temporary resurrection!


I really loved Phase 1! Best forum and election experience I ever had - truly.

[CGP]

I really loved Phase 1! Best forum and election experience I ever had - truly.

Phase 1 was a blast, for sure.

[RE:]

I really loved Phase 1! Best forum and election experience I ever had - truly.Me too!! There was always something to do to help HRC and always something to look forward to. There was always one turn after another...no boredom back then, that's for sure!!:D

[ZY123]

Phase 1 was a blast, for sure.

Puerto Rico! First time I got involved financially here other than to donate to Hillary personally - the results were beyond all expectations...it was a great experience having our forum there.

[CGP]

Me too!! There was always something to do to help HRC and always something to look forward to. There was always one turn after another...no boredom back then, that's for sure!!:D

All fueled by the HOPE that Hillary Clinton would become president!

So many were so extremely motivated to helping making that dream a reality.

Hence why so many were equally distressed by the horrid obstacles which were placed in our (and Hillary's) way.

[CGP]

Puerto Rico! First time I got involved financially here other than to donate to Hillary personally - the results were beyond all expectations...it was a great experience having our forum there.

Puerto Rico was a blast!

Driving around the streets of San Juan with Elena (lady with the Hillary mask) was indeed "interesting"! ;)

On more than one occasion Valencia had the virtually stop the car and tell Elena to "calm down", she was so excited!

And of course I got to meet Hillary in some unkown San Juan street and had my photo taken with her!

[Horizon]

Murray~

I have to say Thank You! Thank You for all you have done these last months, all the craziness you put up with, all the advice you gave, being the voice of reason when I was absolutely flipping out, but most of all, for bringing together a group of peeps I have been proud to call friend and adversary.

This was my very first forum experience and I was terrified when I was typing my first post. I was afraid I would not be welcome, or not fit in. This was my sanctuary after my mom died and I was looking for comfort and like minded people. Everyone welcomed me with open arms and I have met some AWSEOME people, that I hope to continue on with somewhere, somehow.

It's been great, and sometimes not so great. But it was always a learning experience that I will use throughout my life.

Thanks again, for everything. This would never have worked without your knowledge, guidance and patience. You have a lot to be proud of here!!

[ZY123]

All of this - the positive is why I feel it's time to archive. I will be sad to see it go and miss it greatly but in my heart I just feel it's time to archive this great place as what it was - A great movement created by the historic candidacy of Hillary Clinton.

[MrSandMan]

I just want to say that this is the only political forum that I have ever signed up to. And if it closes, I won't be signing up to another one. I might just talk politics on off topic sections of music forums, that'll be about it.

Murray, nice forum. I hope we can keep it open, if not, all the best brother!

[sadie]

Wow, I thought this thread was a totally different thing when I posted my rant. How sad with all of the ending talk :( I do hope that this forum will continue in some capacity but understand if that's not possible. I appreciate so much being allowed in with the "invasion of Republicans" in late August (well, early Sept.), and although many don't seem to fond of the time period leading up to the election, I really enjoyed it. I came here because this forum offered the most comprehensive research on the candidates and interesting discussion to boot. I ended up learning more than I thought I ever would. I echo your comments about never again being as invested in an election as I was this time around...but it was fun (most of the time) while it lasted. Murray, thank you so much for allowing me to "invade" HCF :D

Wahoo, 750 posts!! :D:D:D

[CGP]

Wow, I thought this thread was a totally different thing when I posted my rant. How sad with all of the ending talk :( I do hope that this forum will continue in some capacity but understand if that's not possible. I appreciate so much being allowed in with the "invasion of Republicans" in late August (well, early Sept.), and although many don't seem to fond of the time period leading up to the election, I really enjoyed it. I came here because this forum offered the most comprehensive research on the candidates and interesting discussion to boot. I ended up learning more than I thought I ever would. I echo your comments about never again being as invested in an election as I was this time around...but it was fun (most of the time) while it lasted. Murray, thank you so much for allowing me to "invade" HCF :D

Wahoo, 750 posts!! :D:D:D

Ah, you just hit platinum! :)

Unfortunately no prizes are forthcoming! :o