An Incovenient Truth For Some... [Archive]

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CGP

01-30-2009, 12:19 AM

timepassages

01-30-2009, 12:27 AM

Understood.

eyedoc333

01-30-2009, 12:30 AM

Closure/forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean condoning what was done, but rather coming to terms with it in a way that we can move on with our lives in a healthy way.

CGP

01-30-2009, 12:30 AM

Closure/forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean condoning what was done, but rather coming to terms with it in a way that we can move on with our lives in a healthy way.

Exactly.

Den2006

01-30-2009, 12:40 AM

I don't think anyone wants Obama to fail, some of his idea's and policies need to fail but for him to be a complete failure would not be good for the country. I hope he can grow in the office and learn to balance ideals with their consequences.

VotingHillary

01-30-2009, 12:42 AM

Closure/forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean condoning what was done, but rather coming to terms with it in a way that we can move on with our lives in a healthy way.

No, you don't forget what you learned in the past, but you move forward and use that knowledge to improve the situation and do your best to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Think about this for a minute...if Obama "held a grudge," Hillary would currently be the junior Senator from NY with no position on the healtcare committee because Uncle Ted, who does hold a grudge, let her know she wouldn't be on it.

Am I now in the "happy Obama supporter" category....no. But things are just too critical right now to continue this "war" when so many of our people are suffering. But by the same token, I will do what the media won't. I will hold him accountable as I would any other president.

I know many are not happy that Hillary accepted SOS in this administration.
But there are a whole lot of folks in the State Department that are damn glad she did.

After 8 years of the Bush administration, would you really have wanted to deny the State Department employees this moment?

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1705667530?bctid=8794088001

hillary4change

01-30-2009, 12:44 AM

I agree.

It is hard to not get angry or upset when certain memories comeback. I will never forget, but I also, will never wish harm on my country.

I do want my country to succeed. However there are certain things obama is trying to accomplish that I dont agree with. Those things, I dont want him to succeed in, but not his presidency as a whole.

I certainly do not want him to fail as a president, because that is failure for my country.

I think sometimes, in the heat of the moment, it is hard to differentiate between the two.

VotingHillary

01-30-2009, 01:37 AM

CGP

01-30-2009, 01:42 AM

I know I am asking the near-impossible, but can we just go to the sites that we feel support our political take rather than ragging on one another?

That would be the ideal outcome.

foxyladi

01-30-2009, 10:46 AM

Understood.

and agree..........

Aria

01-30-2009, 01:34 PM

Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of State in an Obama administration. Wanting Obama's presidency to be a failure is akin to wanting Hillary's time as SoS to be a failure. His presidency and her role as SoS are now inextricably linked. As times goes on, and as I become more distanced from the past, I am finding it increasingly difficult to understand how ardent supporters of Hillary Clinton can claim to want Hillary to succeed as SoS but Obama to fail as President. Unfortunately for such people, if Obama fails, so too will Hillary. If you want Hillary to be a success as SoS, that requires a degree of support for Obama's presidency, or at least a willingness to not trash him 24/7! Think about it. I haven't forgotten the past (how could I?!), but I am not going to allow that to interfere with my willingness and desire to support Hillary Clinton in her work as SoS. Opposing Obama's presidency will in no way help Hillary be the success she deserves to be on the world stage.

I think that if Obama fails as President, it will be of his own doing, much as with GWB. Bush had help in his undoing, but he really didn't need it - that, he was capable of doing himself!:D (I can't believe that I'm actually feeling a little sorry for him nowadays. He did do some good which hasn't received much attention - but unfortunately, the bad far outweighed the good, I think because it offended some long-held core principles of Americans. Had to say that, though it doesn't belong on this thread and not really on this forum).

But seriously, I think that the most we can expect from Hillary's most ardent supporters at this point is a "wait and see" attitude - hopeful but cautious, where Obama is concerned. The support for Hillary runs deep, for what people feel are the right reasons. It's the reasons that are at the core of it - to do with belief and trust. To many Hillary supporters, Obama represents the opposite and therefore has not earned their trust. He has to earn it the old-fashioned way - through work and deeds, listening to the people. He needs to prove that he is not the person they know/perceive him to be. This will take time and his policies will tell the tale one way or the other. Certainly he shouldn't be trashed unnecessarily, and we should have open minds and give credit when credit is due - but a certain amount of skepticism and questioning is necessary and healthy because blind acceptance won't lead us to the right place. The will of the people needs to be known, listened to, and acted upon. I think that's all we ask. And then we need a media which will report objectively, not propagandize and create the news (big order in itself).

After the last eight years, and the vulnerable "state of the union" at present, it wouldn't be smart to wish failure on the new administration, and I doubt that many do. Perhaps they wish certain policies to fail, but not at the expense of the country. Nor do they want policies imposed that are opposed to their dream and expectations of what America can be. Part of what they are saying is that there is no desire to have "everything Obama" glossed over as in the campaigns - that no president should be given full power and no accountability. To some extent, it's a continuing struggle against the powers-that-be. People want to have a voice in restoring the values that our country once stood for, and there is concern for losing our democracy.

All that said, I believe that Hillary will represent us well around the world. I hope that she is allowed to do her job and given credit when due. We know that she not only listens, but hears, and a lot of listening has to be done. She's also an extremely capable communicator with the breadth and depth of knowledge to do the job effectively. She may need Obama's success to ride on, to a certain extent, but my guess is that she will play a substantial role in that success - and that it will not be missed by the public this time around! :)

joeysky18

01-30-2009, 03:53 PM

ZY123

01-30-2009, 04:14 PM

I am going to have to say this...I am so sick of the "wars" between HV, HCF and PSP. The internet is big enough for all to exist and allow for all opinions. I truly doubt Hillary would be pleased to see all the "cracks" that have occurred between her 18 million since the primary.

I know I am asking the near-impossible, but can we just go to the sites that we feel support our political take rather than ragging on one another?

You know I'm really tired of seeing my board talked about on other boards and especially in ways that are unfair. To start it is PP, not PSP. But that's not really the important part. (And VotingHillary this is not directed at you personally at all, it's just in general a response to all the talk I've heard about and seen about my board...so please don't take offense.)

When HCF went down the second time: me, RE, Mary, and Meg worked hard to create our own space. It wasn't meant to be big (in fact it's bigger than originally intended) but people seemed to want the place with HCF down...so we put HOURS and HOURS of our hard work in...our PERSONAL time. So when I see it accused of things on another board that just aren't fair or true (like being a part of some war) I get a bit put off.

YES we had a bit of a conflict with HV at first but it is no longer. I think they have a COMPLETELY different site than we do and I wish them the best on it...and this HAS been expressed in a THREAD on our board at Pantsuit. There is no HV vs. PP rivalry...there is just not. So claiming there is a "war" kind of angers me. Of course other boards get mentioned in passing but it is FAR from the topic of conversations...we have other things to discuss.

Pantsuit Politics is for liberal leaning Hillary supporters. We are making our own map to document Hillary's travels and we have our own unique Traveling Pantsuit to document her job as SoS. We have put our sweat and tears into it and quite frankly I'm proud of it. If people don't want to visit hey that's fine with me...and if HV is their cup of tea that's fine by me too. And if they want to visit both that's also fine. THERE IS NOT A WAR....there is just not.

So people can come try it or not but if you try it you will see no war, trust me, and I'm guessing HV feels the same.

Thanks for listening. If someone has some suggestions or concerns about our site feel free to visit the board and ask us directly.

http://www.****************.net/index.php

Suzan

01-30-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Den2006
I don't think anyone wants Obama to fail

Oh, plenty do:

Fail? As in outright fail and take the country down with him? A global implosion?

Okay, maybe some Rush followers want that, but I don't think most moderates do. Or, if so, then they don't understand the consequences. I don't think Rush understands either--or cares. He's a blowhard, IMO. He just likes to hear himself rant.

Having said that, I don't think wishing Obama's stimulus package would not pass is the same as wishing him failure overall. I want more balance in the package and wish he would have considered tax cuts and incentives for private business. Business needs to be in on this turnaround too. It shouldn't be 100% government-subsidized. So, if the package didn't pass, perhaps he would feel some pressure to balance the economic scales.

This comes from my limited understanding of what's going on, as always. :confused:

Suzan

01-30-2009, 05:51 PM

I think that if Obama fails as President, it will be of his own doing, much as with GWB. Bush had help in his undoing, but he really didn't need it - that, he was capable of doing himself!:D (I can't believe that I'm actually feeling a little sorry for him nowadays. He did do some good which hasn't received much attention - but unfortunately, the bad far outweighed the good, I think because it offended some long-held core principles of Americans. Had to say that, though it doesn't belong on this thread and not really on this forum).

But seriously, I think that the most we can expect from Hillary's most ardent supporters at this point is a "wait and see" attitude - hopeful but cautious, where Obama is concerned. The support for Hillary runs deep, for what people feel are the right reasons. It's the reasons that are at the core of it - to do with belief and trust. To many Hillary supporters, Obama represents the opposite and therefore has not earned their trust. He has to earn it the old-fashioned way - through work and deeds, listening to the people. He needs to prove that he is not the person they know/perceive him to be. This will take time and his policies will tell the tale one way or the other. Certainly he shouldn't be trashed unnecessarily, and we should have open minds and give credit when credit is due - but a certain amount of skepticism and questioning is necessary and healthy because blind acceptance won't lead us to the right place. The will of the people needs to be known, listened to, and acted upon. I think that's all we ask. And then we need a media which will report objectively, not propagandize and create the news (big order in itself).

After the last eight years, and the vulnerable "state of the union" at present, it wouldn't be smart to wish failure on the new administration, and I doubt that many do. Perhaps they wish certain policies to fail, but not at the expense of the country. Nor do they want policies imposed that are opposed to their dream and expectations of what America can be. Part of what they are saying is that there is no desire to have "everything Obama" glossed over as in the campaigns - that no president should be given full power and no accountability. To some extent, it's a continuing struggle against the powers-that-be. People want to have a voice in restoring the values that our country once stood for, and there is concern for losing our democracy.

All that said, I believe that Hillary will represent us well around the world. I hope that she is allowed to do her job and given credit when due. We know that she not only listens, but hears, and a lot of listening has to be done. She's also an extremely capable communicator with the breadth and depth of knowledge to do the job effectively. She may need Obama's success to ride on, to a certain extent, but my guess is that she will play a substantial role in that success - and that it will not be missed by the public this time around! :)
Bravo! Beautifully said!

I do think Murray is talking about something else, though, i.e, outright hatred of everything Obama that can't be disguised as criticism.

EngCindy

01-30-2009, 07:10 PM

Hi All !
Haven't been here since Sept.; nice to see the site is still around.

I think Obama is gearing up to be another Carter. I think Hillary will be given some recognition in the Foreign Policy/Affairs area. She's tough and this should beef-up her credentials internationally.

Will 2012 be a democratic year, if Obama falls on his face ? That is doubtful, but, the republicans don't appear to be too strong; at least right now. But, this is very early.

I wanted a fiscally responsible Democrat; I believe Hillary was and still is, that person. I don't believe Obama is. Does that mean I hate Obama ? No. I do hate some of the events that unfolded during this last primary. I am beginning to hate some of the events unfolding in this new administration; pay-backs. I'll never forget or forgive the DNC over the Michigan-delegate-stealing. I will never forget the video's of the caucus and primary events. I want to spit nails, when I hear ACORN is going to get millions of dollars. My blood boils when I think of the "Rev. Wright"s getting millions of dollars for their "faith-based" programs ( which of course, GWB instituted).

Can someone tell me of ONE economist that says spending trillions of dollars is going to stop the recession ?

How do we stop the socialism ?

When I first read this post, my gut response was: If Obama fails, it will be Hillary's fault.
Can we have a failed President and a successful Sec. of State ? I believe so and I believe, we are about to embark upon that path. Trillions in debt and spending more, dollar losing value ( inflation), record unemployment and an enormous amount of citizens that believe their messiah is going to deliver them from the depths of despair;ie, Obama giving away free money, free college, free housing .
I believe Hillary would have lost respect and credability if she had been his vise, when he fails. This way, she is making him do something on his own. His failure will be his and his alone. There are many Americans that continue to have respect for Colin Powell, even if they dont respect GWB.

Just needed to air some thoughts.....

Aria

01-30-2009, 08:22 PM

Bravo! Beautifully said!........I do think Murray is talking about something else, though, i.e, outright hatred of everything Obama that can't be disguised as criticism.

Thank you, Suzan - and I feel, as Murray and others do, that continued expressions of hatred will not be productive, either for Hillary or for the country in general. In fact, I have "taken vacation" in the past because I can't tolerate it, whomever it's aimed at - BUT, unless I'm mistaken, there has been improvement recently. I don't get onto all the threads by any means, but I don't see many hate-filled posts lately - so that's all to the good. I think that most people desire, understand, and abide by the ground rules. We do need to accept - and move ahead.

As far as any ill will between Hillary sites is concerned, I don't see much of that either, so I wonder if a mountain is being made out of a molehill. We certainly don't need to create problems where there aren't any - 'nuf problems in the world, I'd say!

writerchick

01-30-2009, 09:48 PM

Hey all - I just saw the forum was back open. Glad to see it!

Personally, I find my lack of faith in Obama is similar to my lack of faith in George W. Bush.

When Al Gore won the 2000 election but it was handed to Bush by the media and political machine, I knew in my gut I would never be able to be enthusiastic about Bush. Everything he did and said made me cringe.

One could argue I'm a Democrat and Bush was a Republican so it was policy that made me dislike him.

In truth, much of Obama's policy I don't care for and wouldn't have voted for either which is why I preferred HRC. In 2000, I disagreed with Bush on:

His opposition to gay marriage
Economic strategy
Faith based programs
His opposition to a woman's right to choose
I questioned his leadership
Healthcare

Funny, I disagree with Obama on most of these same issues. He is more eloquent then Bush and is pro-choice which is good. But I am a gay woman and, in truth, it really has no direct impact on me personally. The rest of the issues do.

Then 9/11 happened. In the months that followed, I was glad that we had a POTUS, I didn't really care who it was. It was the only time I felt "okay" about Bush. But after a year or so, my distrust and frustration was back.

This is how I feel about Obama. Times are so scary that I am gritting my teeth and hoping for the best. I am trying to be "okay" with him. But for me, Obama's "win" will always be tainted, I am not crazy about much of his policy, I have little confidence in his leadership and wish it was someone else leading us through this horrible time - just like I wished it was Al Gore leading us through 9/11.

Just because I was stuck with George Bush doesn't mean I would go onto message boards, start posting pro-Bush articles, trying to argue why he's not so bad. Any one of us could come up with a laundry list of GOOD things Bush did during his presidency but we choose not to. Why? Because you either believe in your POTUS or you don't. Every action that POTUS takes tends to reaffirm your feelings about them.

As far as HRC, I don't believe her success as SoS is tied to Obama's domestic success or failure. I think she will do an amazing job and make historical changes in women's rights and hopefully bring peace to the middle east. I think she will do her best to keep us safe. I think she will help try to save the Global economy. Meanwhile, Obama is the one advocating printing another trillion dollars of money this country doesn't have, not HRC. Obama and this congress are the ones pushing yet another flawed bill through for political reasons - they should wait and get it right but they are too concerned about appearances. If the Domestic economy fails (and believe me, I REALLY DON'T WANT IT TO) HRC will be the least to blame. If she was still a NY Senator she would would have been forced to support the stimulus. As SoS, she's completely removed. Unless she gets in some serious disagreement with Obama, I see her acting extremely effectively on his behalf the way she always does - firmly, independently and tirelessly. Her successes are hers to make.

Anyway, sorry about the ramble... again, I'm glad HCF is back.

Oh, and I agree, there's no need to snark about HV or PP. People came here together under a common belief in HRC, then went in different directions after the election. People tend to post where they feel most comfortable, it doesn't make any of the forums better or worse then the others.

Suzan

01-30-2009, 10:29 PM

Thank you, Suzan - and I feel, as Murray and others do, that continued expressions of hatred will not be productive, either for Hillary or for the country in general. In fact, I have "taken vacation" in the past because I can't tolerate it, whomever it's aimed at - BUT, unless I'm mistaken, there has been improvement recently. I don't get onto all the threads by any means, but I don't see many hate-filled posts lately - so that's all to the good. I think that most people desire, understand, and abide by the ground rules. We do need to accept - and move ahead.

Definite improvement. There was blood in the streets here after the election, which was probably to be expected, given how raw feelings were. It's much better now.

As far as any ill will between Hillary sites is concerned, I don't see much of that either, so I wonder if a mountain is being made out of a molehill. We certainly don't need to create problems where there aren't any - 'nuf problems in the world, I'd say!

I'm on several Hillary sites and this is the first time I've seen it mentioned.

CGP

01-31-2009, 01:56 AM

Oh, and I agree, there's no need to snark about HV or PP. People came here together under a common belief in HRC, then went in different directions after the election. People tend to post where they feel most comfortable, it doesn't make any of the forums better or worse then the others.

Agreed.

CGP

01-31-2009, 02:03 AM

You know I'm really tired of seeing my board talked about on other boards and especially in ways that are unfair. To start it is PP, not PSP. But that's not really the important part. (And VotingHillary this is not directed at you personally at all, it's just in general a response to all the talk I've heard about and seen about my board...so please don't take offense.)

When HCF went down the second time: me, RE, Mary, and Meg worked hard to create our own space. It wasn't meant to be big (in fact it's bigger than originally intended) but people seemed to want the place with HCF down...so we put HOURS and HOURS of our hard work in...our PERSONAL time. So when I see it accused of things on another board that just aren't fair or true (like being a part of some war) I get a bit put off.

YES we had a bit of a conflict with HV at first but it is no longer. I think they have a COMPLETELY different site than we do and I wish them the best on it...and this HAS been expressed in a THREAD on our board at Pantsuit. There is no HV vs. PP rivalry...there is just not. So claiming there is a "war" kind of angers me. Of course other boards get mentioned in passing but it is FAR from the topic of conversations...we have other things to discuss.

Pantsuit Politics is for liberal leaning Hillary supporters. We are making our own map to document Hillary's travels and we have our own unique Traveling Pantsuit to document her job as SoS. We have put our sweat and tears into it and quite frankly I'm proud of it. If people don't want to visit hey that's fine with me...and if HV is their cup of tea that's fine by me too. And if they want to visit both that's also fine. THERE IS NOT A WAR....there is just not.

So people can come try it or not but if you try it you will see no war, trust me, and I'm guessing HV feels the same.

Thanks for listening. If someone has some suggestions or concerns about our site feel free to visit the board and ask us directly.

http://www.****************.net/index.php

Z - you can't operate a political forum and not expect to talk about you or the forum. It goes with the territory. I have given up getting angry when I read bizarre and inaccurate statements about HCF (and myself) - there isn't anything I can do about it other than just let it go. People will always have an opinion about a website, especially a political one, and you have to expect that people will make comments (both good/bad) about your forum and any others that they participate in. It's hard to stop that - well, that's been my experience anyway.

blueskygal

02-01-2009, 03:08 PM

"you either believe in your POTUS or you don't"

LOVE THAT LINE writerchick!

i have made my peace with the whole thing and have recognized that to move our country forward we have to move past partisanship towards a true bi-partisanship - one that used to exist in our country and that served it pretty well until it was eclipsed in the 80s.

having said that the problem i had with this board was that we were expected to be machines where in one hour you could flip a switch and be totally different. even hillary didn't do that. it took hillary time to process her loss and move on. she has given us a beautiful example. the site made a misstep when it tried to "force" the transition too soon. the evidence of that was the large number of people who left and will never return.

i'm sure HRC is not happy with everything in this admin - but she sees a potential to serve the country. she will go down as one of the greatest public servants in the history of America. and she is well-prepared for this next step in her ascent.

Hillary's star will keep rising no matter what - because you can't keep a good woman down! more than that her rewards are commensurate with her work. hillary has always been a worker bee - ready to roll up her sleeves and dig down into the minutia to find the truth and then use that to craft her responses/policies.

hence her rise from

first lady arkansas -> first lady US -> senator NY -> SOS

The Lord rewards the worker. She is getting her just rewards and in the process of the last year has had a total makeover of her image - where now even repubs and others who used to hate her respect and admire her.

What Obama does or does not do is neither here nor there for Hillary. What guarantees Hillary her success is her flexibility, desire to serve, and hard work.

May God continue to protect, guide, bless, and keep her with us.

CGP

02-01-2009, 03:18 PM

having said that the problem i had with this board was that we were expected to be machines where in one hour you could flip a switch and be totally different. even hillary didn't do that. it took hillary time to process her loss and move on. she has given us a beautiful example. the site made a misstep when it tried to "force" the transition too soon. the evidence of that was the large number of people who left and will never return.

I think, more accurately, the problem was that people THOUGHT or PERCEIVED that they were being asked to transition to a new approach overnight. It was never actually the case that people were asked (by me as admin) to "support Obama or else!" once he won the election. Anyone who has followed the forum closely since November 4 will know that there has continued to be much critical discussion/debate about Obama & his politics, with no request of anyone to "fall in line". Allowing people who support Obama to post at HCF doesn't make it the case that everyone has to automatically be an Obama fan to post here. That's simply not how it is and never has been.

It's been a rough 3 month period for this forum since Obama won, and the best pathway forward hasn't been obvious - hence 2 closures and 2 reopenings! Given the very pro-Hillary history of the forum, and the strong opposition to Obama during the primaries and prior to the November 4 election, I think many of the people who have left HCF (never to return I suspect) don't have much interest in a "common ground" focus to political discussion. So although the transition could definitely have been done more smoothly and more slowly, no amount of time heals permanent wounds & those who have left (permanently) have probably found more comfortable online homes elsewhere.

blueskygal

02-01-2009, 05:34 PM

"I think, more accurately, the problem was that people THOUGHT or PERCEIVED that they were being asked to transition to a new approach overnight. It was never actually the case that people were asked (by me as admin) to "support Obama or else!"

Murray, with all due respect I disagree. OBOTS were allowed on the board to gloat and you came down hard on people if you thought they weren't following your new rules instantly. There was no empathy for people's heartache just a demand that we "suck it up" and move on.

The point is this was pro-Hillary and overnight we were expected to go to "common ground" with no time to process the loss.

I'm not interested in rehashing the whole thing, but I stand by my experience and those of others.

I do think people go to where they are most comfortable and aligned.

For myself I do not think it is good to go on hating on someone because that ultimately comes back at you in your own life.

Obama has not earned my trust and may never. I am waiting to see what he does and how he does it. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves me otherwise.

For me, this pork package is his first test. Will he have the backbone to reject it and stand up to his own party or cave and pass something that is not good for the country.

CGP

02-01-2009, 05:46 PM

Murray, with all due respect I disagree. OBOTS were allowed on the board to gloat and you came down hard on people if you thought they weren't following your new rules instantly. There was no empathy for people's heartache just a demand that we "suck it up" and move on.

The point is this was pro-Hillary and overnight we were expected to go to "common ground" with no time to process the loss.

^Again, it's all about perception and one's point of view. I won't go into a detailed response to the above other than to say the situation was somewhat more complicated and multi-layered than you have described or which may have been apparent to people at the time. Things are not always as they seem or may appear to be. And change is not always easy, obviously!

I'm not interested in rehashing the whole thing, but I stand by my experience and those of others.

^I definitely agree about not "rehashing" the whole thing - it has become tiresome and draining. There has been so much discussion about "the past" already. I also agree that your experience is your own & you are entitled to express how you view and feel about events that have taken place here at HCF. Everyone always has a point of view which is unique to their own situation & sharing that with others makes for interesting discussions.

Aria

02-01-2009, 06:07 PM

i have made my peace with the whole thing and have recognized that to move our country forward we have to move past partisanship towards a true bi-partisanship - one that used to exist in our country and that served it pretty well until it was eclipsed in the 80s.

having said that the problem i had with this board was that we were expected to be machines where in one hour you could flip a switch and be totally different. even hillary didn't do that. it took hillary time to process her loss and move on. she has given us a beautiful example. the site made a misstep when it tried to "force" the transition too soon. the evidence of that was the large number of people who left and will never return.

I can appreciate much of what you said, but I do not understand the need that some people have to rehash, and rehash, what happened on the forum months ago. The points about the closing have been made over and over - sometimes accurately and sometimes not. Sure, it affects the forum, now, to some extent, but there's no point in continuing to "rub it in." I'd hope that we can simply appreciate those who are here, contribute positively, and move forward, just as we hope for the country to move forward.

CGP

02-01-2009, 06:17 PM

I'd hope that we can simply appreciate those who are here, contribute positively, and move forward, just as we hope for the country to move forward.

Right on! :cool:

Laura Cereta

02-01-2009, 08:11 PM

ZY123

02-01-2009, 08:26 PM

Z - you can't operate a political forum and not expect to talk about you or the forum. It goes with the territory. I have given up getting angry when I read bizarre and inaccurate statements about HCF (and myself) - there isn't anything I can do about it other than just let it go. People will always have an opinion about a website, especially a political one, and you have to expect that people will make comments (both good/bad) about your forum and any others that they participate in. It's hard to stop that - well, that's been my experience anyway.

You're right...HOWEVER...on this fake "conflict" that some members seem to be promoting on this board - I'm just beyond frustrated with it. To create and promote a board conflict that doesn't exist is ridiculous. What seems to have happened is people supposedly "neutral" on this non-existent conflict are the ones making mountains out of molehills and keeping the rumor alive. Thus the post clarifying the issue. Most talking about it are not aware of any of the personal dynamics and are reading things into statements (made off board) and off board things they know nothing about. So that's why I said something...yet even after I stated no conflict (both here and on my board - and I really felt silly doing it since it's a non-issue) I see another post today on it...there is NO CONFLICT between boards..the boards are DIFFERENT. There may be personal conflicts but such is life and they are resolved off boards and frankly not the members business.

So that was the point...I get yours also however...and realize people will criticize and make ridiculous statements...I just thought those statements would be on site content and things actually happening. Oh well...c'est la vie...let the non-existent conflict continue.

Good luck with the site.....it looks like other than this non-existent conflict the internal conflict here is gone which is good.

The bottom line is everyone's forum home is different and I have created one very comfortable to me - and I like it (of course),....so there's really no point in creating issues that don't exist!

Meg

02-01-2009, 09:03 PM

I am going to have to say this...I am so sick of the "wars" between HV, HCF and PSP. The internet is big enough for all.

Ok, I've refrained from commenting, but I've got to say this.

Yes after Nov 4 there were personal feuds, with specific people. I can say this because I was indeed a part of it. I still may not like those people but I haven't spent the past 2 months bitching about them. So this supposed "war" you're so upset about doesn't exist.

All three sites have their own focus, and quiet honestly, not everyone cares about who's doing what anymore.

For not wanting to keep this "war" you're sure doing a good job by bringing it up over and over again.

ZY123

02-01-2009, 09:56 PM

I also think that comment should have been removed since the post it was in response to was removed. The way it reads now with the edits, it could be taken as a personal insult to those of us running any of the "other" sites (or this site for that matter). And at this site we are members rather than admins of our own sites so the member rules should apply IMO. The comment probably wasn't intended that way but that's how it reads. JMO.

blueskygal

02-01-2009, 11:14 PM

i am not rehashing. i just signed in again a few days ago after being away for months since murray pulled the plug the first time. this is my only post on the subject. i'll be leaving again if i feel pummeled for speaking my point of view.

CGP

02-02-2009, 12:36 AM

Let's move on from this thread. It's going nowhere!

Closed!

:cool: