(Apr 7, 2009): "The big lurch towards Canadian-style health care" (CBC, Canada)

[CGP]

Full Article @ CBC, Canada (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/04/07/f-rfa-champ.html)


If you are a Canadian living in the United States, there is one lesson you learn very early on: avoid at all costs any discussion that involves health care. It's unwinnable.

Most Americans have this picture in their heads of the Canadian health-care system. It involves horse-drawn wagons moving through the early dawn, hauling bodies to the local cemetery of those who died while waiting in long lineups for treatment.

Also unwinnable would be any suggestion that health-care standards in the U.S. can be matched anywhere else in the world.

This view is overwhelmingly held here despite statistics that show Canada's life expectancy is now 80 years compared to the U.S. figure of 77.5 and that the infant mortality rate in Canada is 5.08 deaths (per 1,000 births) while the U.S. figure is 6.89.

Life expectancy and infant mortality rates are considered by most international agencies to be the best measure of a national health-care program. But they are not the kinds of facts that Americans like to focus on.




Wait times.

Despite my own advice, I have disregarded it on occasion and found myself in a fruitless discussion with my American friends that usually centred around wait times.

In a 2001 survey, the policy journal Health Affairs here found that 27 per cent of Canadians reported waiting four months or more for elective surgery, while only five per cent of U.S. residents reported such waits. No statistic has been beaten into the minds of Americans more than this one.

The health-care industry here has made it the mantra of any discussion on medicare both on Capitol Hill and at the kitchen table.

The problem with the statistic is that it is pure hokum.

To start with, almost 50 million Americans have no health insurance at all. If you can't afford to see a doctor, there is no wait time.

Read the Health Affairs survey closely and you will find that it also reported 24 per cent of all Americans did not receive medical care because of cost; that 26 per cent did not fill a prescription, again because of cost; and 22 per cent said they did not get a test or treatment that had been recommended because they couldn't afford it.

Now, I am aware of problems with the Canadian system and the national debates that surround it. But when arguing with my American friends, I have always accepted the Canadian view that despite sometimes lengthy wait times no one goes without care, instead of the American view that, if you can't afford it, you go without.

It's not been a winning argument, at least not until recently.




In 1994, when Bill and Hillary Clinton attempted to introduce a new health plan, they were sandbagged by a Congress that was interested primarily in satisfying the health insurance and medical industries.

So badly beaten were the Clintons — the first big political defeat of the Bill Clinton presidency — that they never again tried to reform the system, despite the huge number of Americans with no health care as a basic right.

[Horizon]

I would dearly love the opportunity to even BE on a wait list, as opposed to having NO medical insurance! I have had none since spring 2006.

Anything is better than nothing for me at this point.

[carmaken]

Or how about those of us who have coverage, but are insurance poor? We are afraid to go to the doctor in case he might find something wrong and want to run tests, which we cannot afford our share of the co-pay for! This is a hot-button topic for someone my age that will probably be shot down if I were to elaborate my biggest fears.

[CGP]

This is a hot-button topic for someone my age that will probably be shot down if I were to elaborate my biggest fears.

Please elaborate. That will make the topic & discussion more engaging!

[carmaken]

It's no secret that I'm 52. My Dad had a massive heart attack at age 53, which he nearly died from, but lived another 20 yrs. to talk about before he died of cancer in 2001. I've had a cholesterol test 18 mos. ago, which indicated my bad cholesterol was very high, even though I have a generally good diet and I run/walk 3 to 5 times per week. I am currently on no maintenance drugs. I am terrified to go to the Dr. My theory is "If is ain't broke, don't fix it." But, genetically, I'm probably a walking time bomb. I'm so worried about "pre-existing conditions" that I haven't had a regular doctor for years. But I do practice preventive measures.

Also, I'm past the age where people go in for colonoscopy, which is about $2K. My co-pay would be half that. So, I'm putting off a whole slew of tests, some I haven't even mentioned, mostly due to our health care industry. Some day, I will just die-- that's it!

I am a non-smoker, living a generally healthy life style, drinking alcohol only occasionally. For vacations, we go to places where we can hike 3 to 5 miles several times. I bet many of us baby boomers feel as I do; that I won't have the entitlements my parents have had. Nor do I think it's right. I have only used medical insurance for having my children, my dental care, and eye care. I have been blessed enough with good health to not need to go to the doctor.

[CGP]

It's no secret that I'm 52. My Dad had a massive heart attack at age 53, which he nearly died from, but lived another 20 yrs. to talk about before he died of cancer in 2001. I've had a cholesterol test 18 mos. ago, which indicated my bad cholesterol was very high, even though I have a generally good diet and I run/walk 3 to 5 times per week. I am currently on no maintenance drugs. I am terrified to go to the Dr. My theory is "If is ain't broke, don't fix it." But, genetically, I'm probably a walking time bomb. I'm so worried about "pre-existing conditions" that I haven't had a regular doctor for years. But I do practice preventive measures.

Also, I'm past the age where people go in for colonoscopy, which is about $2K. My co-pay would be half that. So, I'm putting off a whole slew of tests, some I haven't even mentioned, mostly due to our health care industry. Some day, I will just die-- that's it!

I am a non-smoker, living a generally healthy life style, drinking alcohol only occasionally. For vacations, we go to places where we can hike 3 to 5 miles several times. I bet many of us baby boomers feel as I do; that I won't have the entitlements my parents have had. Nor do I think it's right. I have only used medical insurance for having my children, my dental care, and eye care. I have been blessed enough with good health to not need to go to the doctor.

Thanks for sharing this.

Do you have insurance through work or did your purchase coverage on the private/independent market?

[carmaken]

It's considered to be very good insurance, through Toyota Manufacturing!

But, I think many Americans have these same considerations about their health as they age. What it comes down to is the quality of life a person lives, no matter what their circumstance.

But I just shared to keep the thread going. If it sparks something in someone else's experience, I hope they will share. I would much rather discuss other people's situations.

[Jester]

It's no secret that I'm 52. My Dad had a massive heart attack at age 53, which he nearly died from, but lived another 20 yrs. to talk about before he died of cancer in 2001.

Are you on some medications to regulate your blood pressure / cholesterol? Make sure you make that happen and I'm sure everything else will be just fine. Every person I've known with this problem take medication and I don't know anybody that didn't achieve success with that.

I know how you feel about not wanting to trigger something with the insurance. If you have none, you don't want to get diagnosed with anything before securing coverage. If you have insurance, you are still afraid that you will be diagnosed with something that *isn't quite covered* under your plan.

Which reminds me that a single payer plan will most likely bring down some of what makes our system so great (we had a great reassurance of that today with SoCal4Hillary). I am afraid that Obama is not the person to carry this out properly. The fact that he doesn't even really have a plan should be the first clue.

[Wyoming Dem]

Whatever the Canadian Health care System is or isn't, thousands of those living in the border states (Montana & Washington) that I am personally aware of, travel routinely into Canada to have surgeries, etc. One friend needed her gall bladder out and it cost 3100.00 in Canada as opposed to the 18,000 it was going to cost her here. We personally know 9 people here in Wyoming that traveled there for their more expensive medical needs.

I have had Systemic Lupus Erythematosus for 21 years and fortunately, I have good insurance (some years, when the Lupus goes into over-drive, I have between 50,000 and 75,000 in hospital/lab procedures and medications)
However, my premiums have steadily risen to a point where one is tempted to just say "forget it" but doesn't dare. I once added up my medical bills for 15 years and it was well over 1 million dollars.:eek:)

I never for one minute minded paying my fair share but it seems my fair share has become decidedly unfair. I would be better off going on Medicaid/Medicare but feel that would be wrong of me as I can afford to pay (but hate doing so...)

We do need comprehensive health care in this country that covers all BUT...I cannot see bankrupting an already nearly bankrupt nation to do so. And I don't want to hear anything about "tax credits". That is NOT real money...that is more of that "ephemeral" money that only exists in the government's mind. If a person is spending 15,000 a year and has to wait for a "tax Credit" more than 12 months away, they will be paying out of pocket and that takes away from all their other "less-important" needs like food, utilities, housing and transportation.

The lowest income folks generally do have health care provided at no cost or very low cost (although I realize using the emergency room is not cost effective nor is it sound medically as it leaves out preventitive care.) It is the lower middle-class and those above that are paying for most of that coverage. There simply just has to be a better way but I am no expert and certainly could not solve the existing problem very easily. Hard choices are going to have to be made and I doubt that this Administration can make them without bankrupting the country further.

[carmaken]

I'm on no maintenance meds, trying to control that bad cholesterol with diet and exercise. My job is a physical one. And it could just be a bad test, some of the other indicators were within the "healthy" range. The blood sugar test was really healthy, which I was relieved about since type 2 diabetes runs in my family.

Comprehensive studies really need to be done on the entitlements generations, and the run up of costs.

[Jester]

I'm on no maintenance meds, trying to control that bad cholesterol with diet and exercise.

Care to share on some of the diet tips related to cholesterol. I started eating oatmeal every morning. And I take the Bayer 80mg aspirin tablet. I like vegetables, so I'm lucky in that regard (not even close to being vegetarian though).

[carmaken]

We don't eat fried foods often, use the omega 3 fatty acids kind of margarine, eat alot of fish and skinless chicken breasts, whole wheat bread, multi-grain cereals (like granola or shredded wheat), eliminate too much cheese and lunch meat or hotdogs, instead eat tuna sandwiches, and peanut butter. I eat a piece of fruit for lunch each day and have a cooked vegetable and salad for dinner along with entree. We dont' have as much beef as we used to and when I make meat loaf, chili and spaghetti, I substitute 1/2 with ground turkey. We only have eggs once a week. My drink of choice is water. I like the summertime better because you can grill the fresh vegies, barbecue or grill the chicken or fish.

[Jester]

I love all that stuff. I just wish I was a better cook. I won't pretend my eating habits are great. The strange thing is I actually prefer chicken/fish to beef ... vegetables to french fries etc. But put some Chinese food in front of me and forget about it. My biggest vice is soda. As I get older, I will have to give it up ... but it definitely feels like an addiction.

[Wyoming Dem]

I love all that stuff. I just wish I was a better cook. I won't pretend my eating habits are great. The strange thing is I actually prefer chicken/fish to beef ... vegetables to french fries etc. But put some Chinese food in front of me and forget about it. My biggest vice is soda. As I get older, I will have to give it up ... but it definitely feels like an addiction.
I finally decided that it was not the soda but the fact that I am a "Carbonation Junkie".
I switched to sodium free seltzer from Wamart and I don't miss the sodas any more.
And Chinese food...OMG extra MSG, Soy Sauce and extra salt please! I don't eat meat (I do eat fish) but I would eat Chinese 7 days a week if I could. It sucks to get older...

[Jester]

And Chinese food...OMG extra MSG, Soy Sauce and extra salt please!

Oh man, salt. I am not a salt person (I don't hate it, I just don't add extra), but when when an east coast college roommate and I went out to eat, he got me hooked on it. Took me about 2 years to get back to not reaching for the salt. What is wrong with east coasters and food? Crazy habits. I don't know how that coast (and Louisiana) live past 23.

[Wyoming Dem]

Oh man, salt. I am not a salt person (I don't hate it, I just don't add extra), but when when an east coast college roommate and I went out to eat, he got me hooked on it. Took me about 2 years to get back to not reaching for the salt. What is wrong with east coasters and food? Crazy habits. I don't know how that coast (and Louisiana) live past 23.
Louisiana...if it ain't fried, salted and dipped in something it aint food! They should have a picture of a can of lard on the State flag! Luckily, I have really low blood pressure, so I can eat as much salt as I want. Not good for me but we all got to die from something...New Orleans is like my second home and the food is a fantasy come true. I work my way through the Quarter eating...just love it.

[foxyladi]

ginger root tea is good for lowering colesterol.
also ruby red grapefruit juice,,peanut butter is high in colesterol

[carmaken]

Dr. Oz from Oprah says that the healthy kind of peanut butter that you need to stir is good for the GOOD kind of cholersterol (I can never remember if its the LDL or HDL). And it's better for you than eating a lunch meat and cheese sandwich w/mayo. Nuts, in general, are good for lowering cholesterol, but they are high in calories. I can only have like 15-18 almonds or cashews to make a serving.

[Jester]

Dr. Oz from Oprah says that the healthy kind of peanut butter that you need to stir is good for the GOOD kind of cholersterol (I can never remember if its the LDL or HDL). And it's better for you than eating a lunch meat and cheese sandwich w/mayo. Nuts, in general, are good for lowering cholesterol, but they are high in calories. I can only have like 15-18 almonds or cashews to make a serving.

Lunch meat is that bad for you? I figured eating a lunch meat sandwich is infinitely better than a Big Mac. What is it, the sodium?

[carmaken]

Lunch meat has high concentrations of salt (equivalent to the amount of a whole day's supply of salt in one sandwich), and is loaded with nitrates, which has a link to cancer. It doesn't mean you can never have it, just keep it down. If you can go to a health food store, the deli meat there is supposed to be better for you. Also, hotdogs too.

Also, cooking with olive oil, like in stir fry, lowers your cholesterol.

[Jester]

Also, cooking with olive oil, like in stir fry, lowers your cholesterol.

But I eat a bunch of lunch meats because I'm a terrible cook. :rotfl: Why can't I be rich enough to just have my own personal cook. I love correctly prepared healthy food. I just can't prepare it.

[carmaken]

I still eat lunch meat maybe 2 times per week. But it helps if you are doing a mix of alot of other things to offset the eating lunch meat. It's not the only culprit. If you are exercising about 4 times per week, throwing in lots of lettuce, tomatoes, and veggies in those sandwiches, and maybe eating an apple or orange, having a nice big chef salad at night, etc. For breakfast, maybe you could have whole grain cereal, (the Kashi brands are good). So, I'm not picking on the lunch meat. But I know that for me, it's moderation.

I sometimes spend a couple of hours with the food channel on watching Rachael Ray--she has some good ideas for making healthy food (30 minute meals). If you are single it is hard to cook (don't know if you are) for yourself. If my husband were left to cook for himself, he would have pizza, spaghetti, hamburgers and canned soups on a constant rotation. But he's lucky. The heart disease doesn't run in his family like it does mine. (And he has me! lol!)

[Jester]

I
The heart disease doesn't run in his family like it does mine. (And he has me! lol!)

Doesn't really run in my family either. I don't know anybody in my family that has even had a heart attack, much less died from one (I'll be the first, just watch). I can't even find a pattern in my family tree of what kills us. Cancer, old age immune system, kidney, aneurysm and .... It's all over the map. I just am interested because I like to be healthy.

Is there any problem with eating a bunch of egg whites? As far as I can tell, egg whites are great for me.