PDA

View Full Version : "POLITICAL LANDSCAPE: Obama stops short in Turkey" - Burbank Leader (04/10/09)


ZY123
04-12-2009, 07:22 PM
I'm just not sure how Obama is going to keep his promise of recognizing the Armenian genocide without damaging relations with Turkey....this is an big and important choice he needs to make. I think he should do the RIGHT thing with is to recognize the genocide of millions of people.

http://www.burbankleader.com/articles/2009/04/11/politics/gnp-pollandscape10.txt

President Obama stopped short of officially acknowledging the Armenian Genocide during his recent trip to Turkey, telling the press corps Monday that he did not want to “preempt any possible arrangements or announcements that might be made in the near future.”

As a presidential candidate, Obama made it clear that the death of roughly 1.5 million Armenians at the hands of Ottoman Turks in 1915 was genocide, “not an ‘allegation,’ a ‘personal opinion’ or a ‘point of view,’” as he wrote in a 2006 letter to then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

On Monday, Obama told reporters at a joint press conference with Turkish President Abdullah Gul that he had not changed his views, but was encouraged by “a series of negotiations, a process in place between Armenia and Turkey to resolve a whole host of long-standing issues, including this one.”

Turkey has so far refused to acknowledge the genocide, despite findings to the contrary from scores of historical scholars and human rights leaders the world over. The European Parliament, 20 national governments and 42 state governments have already passed resolutions recognizing the genocide.

Past attempts in Congress to pass a similar resolution have stalled repeatedly amid political pressure to avoid harming relations with a key NATO ally, but given Obama’s popularity abroad, supporters of the genocide resolution have held out hope that this time will be different.

Rep. Adam Schiff, who reintroduced a bipartisan resolution in March calling on the U.S. to formally recognize the Armenian Genocide, said he was disappointed that Obama did not take a firmer position on the matter, but hoped that he prepared Gul in private for an official statement later this month, when Armenians commemorate the mass killings.

“We’re trying to do everything we can to get him to make a statement for April 24,” Schiff said.

He warned against the Obama administration buying into Turkey’s “old, failed concept” of a historical commission to mediate the issue.

Gul pushed for the commission Monday, arguing that while his country was “ready to face the realities,” the matter of genocide should not be left to “the politicians and legal experts.”

“It is not a parliamentarian, a politician, who can make a decision on this without knowing the circumstances to the situation,” Gul told reporters.

It is that position that has angered Armenians, who say the issue of genocide has long been settled, so advocating for a historical commission “is just a delay tactic by the Turkish government,” said Zanku Armenian, chairman of the Armenian National Committee Glendale chapter.

“President Obama missed an opportunity to speak truthfully about the Armenian Genocide when he was in Turkey and help them face their past,” he said. “However, we believe President Obama is a man of his word, and hope that he will stick by his past words, as he said he would in Turkey, when it comes to April 24 in a White House statement.”

ZY123
04-12-2009, 07:24 PM
If Obama is going to do this he needs to do it on April 24th which is the day the genocide is mourned.

matiah
04-12-2009, 07:45 PM
If Obama is going to do this he needs to do it on April 24th which is the day the genocide is mourned.

He is not going to do it.

Jester
04-12-2009, 07:48 PM
I'm just not sure how Obama is going to keep his promise of recognizing the Armenian genocide without damaging relations with Turkey

Although my Armenian friends would not agree with me and I accept that, I don't have a problem with Obama not debating something that happened basically a century ago at the expense of relationships today. If asked directly, he shouldn't back away, but I don't think he should shove it in Turkey's face.

That was my view when this came up a few years ago, and it remains today.

ZY123
04-12-2009, 07:52 PM
Not recognizing genocide is condoning it....there will be riots (I'm hopefully exaggerating) here (where I live) if it's not done, it's not going to be pretty.

matiah
04-12-2009, 08:00 PM
Although my Armenian friends would not agree with me and I accept that, I don't have a problem with Obama not debating something that happened basically a century ago at the expense of relationships today. If asked directly, he shouldn't back away, but I don't think he should shove it in Turkey's face.

That was my view when this came up a few years ago, and it remains today.

But he talked to the Turks about how horrible America was, about slavery, and about the plight native Americans. He cannot have it both ways.

Jester
04-12-2009, 08:03 PM
But he talked to the Turks about how horrible America was, about slavery, and about the plight native Americans. He cannot have it both ways.

When all is said and done, he can only speak for our nation. I don't agree with Obama running around telling the world "America is a mean place", but that is a different story.

Would you like it if Turkey told us to apologize for slavery? Of course, not. That would probably lead with us pointing out their faults.

ZY123
04-12-2009, 08:17 PM
Here is the actual resolution (the current version may have changed but is essentially the same).

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:hr106ih.txt.pdf

The Armenian Genocide was conceived and carried out by the Ottoman Empire from 1915 to 1923, resulting in the deportation of nearly 2,000,000 Armenians, of whom 1,500,000 men, women, and children were killed, 500,000 survivors were expelled from their homes, and which succeeded in the elimination of the over 2,500-year presence of Armenians in their historic homeland.

Jester
04-12-2009, 08:18 PM
Not recognizing genocide is condoning it....there will be riots (I'm hopefully exaggerating) here (where I live) if it's not done, it's not going to be pretty.

But why now? This issue has been brought up before.

BTW, I don't even feel comfortable taking this position. I'm just trying to figure out what good would come from stirring up a century old issue. I don't think we should deny the genocide by any means, including while in Turkey if asked. Did Obama do this?

matiah
04-12-2009, 08:21 PM
Would you like it if Turkey told us to apologize for slavery? Of course, not. That would probably lead with us pointing out their faults.

Of course not. That is why he should not have yapped about it in Turkey of all places, when he should have known Turkey has its own issues with the past.

This is going to come back to haunt him. The issue of Armenian genocide is very sensitive.

ZY123
04-12-2009, 08:23 PM
This issue is not dead and has been well and alive for as long as there have been Armenian communities in the United States...the United States has the second largest Armenian population in the WORLD. They (and others in their communities) have been working diligently for YEARS on this resolution and every year on April 24th the community shuts down to recognize this atrocity; they want the same consideration as any other genocide survivors, recognition that the event actually took place. If Obama does NOT do this he will lose their support but the fight will continue.

Jester
04-12-2009, 08:25 PM
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:hr106ih.txt.pdf

17 (8) The United States National Archives and
18 Record Administration holds extensive and thorough
19 documentation on the Armenian Genocide, especially
20 in its holdings under Record Group 59 of the United
21 States Department of State, files 867.00 and
22 867.40, which are open and widely available to the
23 public and interested institutions.

The resolution is stating that it is hardly ignored right there. I just think if we start telling Turks to hang their head in shame, it could get ugly quick.

Also, I'm not so sure that this resolution won't be *unwrapped* now. If we already acknowledge the genocide, I really don't know what this accomplishes. Should we break off relations with Turkey?

Jester
04-12-2009, 08:26 PM
I'm wondering why the Dem voices on this forum are so quiet about this. This was not the case just a few years ago.

matiah
04-12-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm wondering why the Dem voices on this forum are so quiet about this. This was not the case just a few years ago.

I will go on a limb here and say hypocrisy.

Jester
04-12-2009, 08:36 PM
I will go on a limb here and say hypocrisy.

Yeah. Those shifts sometimes confuse me when I'm talking about a subject. I'm not sure if on this one I am an angry liberal or nutcase Rethug.


Got to have a subplot
When i sell them my life story
Maybe i should write it first
And do the living later
'cause life is so much cleaner on the page


YouTube - Perspectives of Profundity Vol.1 Track 7

ZY123
04-12-2009, 08:37 PM
The bottom line is this: I support the Armenian community on this issue - there is a lot of information out there and no way I could post it all in one thread on a message board. So if people want to find all the facts and the history they should look into it. I'm not looking for a debate (especially a Republican/Democrat one) so I'm out...anyone interested please look up the info.

matiah
04-12-2009, 08:40 PM
Yeah. Those shifts sometimes confuse me when I'm talking about a subject. I'm not sure if on this one I am an angry liberal or nutcase Rethug.



Who knows? Maybe both :)

Jester
04-12-2009, 08:46 PM
The bottom line is this: I support the Armenian community on this issue - there is a lot of information out there and no way I could post it all in one thread on a message board. So if people want to find all the facts and the history they should look into it. I'm not looking for a debate (especially a Republican/Democrat one) so I'm out...anyone interested please look up the info.

I'll admit I don't follow every twist and turn on this. I understand your frustration on the issue. I am not in serious opposition of the resolution passing, but I would definitely like to hear your side of the story. This is not an easy issue.

OzDemocrat
04-12-2009, 08:47 PM
I'm wondering why the Dem voices on this forum are so quiet about this. This was not the case just a few years ago.
Conclusion 1. Obama chose Turkey to make a speech on the transgressions of his nations previous generations to promote that nations introspective discussion without resorting to accusations that would compromise what, after regional events of the last half dozen years, has become an important yet tenuous relationship.

Conclusion 2: Obama hates America and wanted to tell some muslims about it.

matiah
04-12-2009, 08:52 PM
Conclusion 1. Obama chose Turkey to make a speech on the transgressions of his nations previous generations to promote that nations introspective discussion without resorting to accusations that would compromise what, after regional events of the last half dozen years, has become an important yet tenuous relationship.

Conclusion 2: Obama hates America and wanted to tell some muslims about it.

Huh?

Jester
04-12-2009, 09:04 PM
Conclusion 1. Obama chose Turkey to make a speech on the transgressions of his nations previous generations to promote that nations introspective discussion without resorting to accusations that would compromise what, after regional events of the last half dozen years, has become an important yet tenuous relationship.

Conclusion 2: Obama hates America and wanted to tell some muslims about it.

Quite productive. Shall I put this down as the only Dem contribution to this thread?