(April 12, 2009) "Tea Parties Forever" (NYT OpEd - Paul Krugman)

[Tim4Hillary]

Couldn't have said it better myself. OPED here (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/opinion/13krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion).

Today’s G.O.P. is, after all, very much a minority party. It retains some limited ability to obstruct the Democrats, but has no ability to make or even significantly shape policy.

Beyond that, Republicans have become embarrassing to watch. And it doesn’t feel right to make fun of crazy people. Better, perhaps, to focus on the real policy debates, which are all among Democrats.

But here’s the thing: the G.O.P. looked as crazy 10 or 15 years ago as it does now. That didn’t stop Republicans from taking control of both Congress and the White House. And they could return to power if the Democrats stumble.

One way to get a good sense of the current state of the G.O.P., and also to see how little has really changed, is to look at the “tea parties” that have been held in a number of places already, and will be held across the country on Wednesday. These parties — antitaxation demonstrations that are supposed to evoke the memory of the Boston Tea Party and the American Revolution — have been the subject of considerable mockery, and rightly so.

Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre.

But the charge of socialism is being thrown around only because “liberal” doesn’t seem to carry the punch it used to. And if you go back just a few years, you find top Republican figures making equally bizarre claims about what liberals were up to. Remember when Karl Rove declared that liberals wanted to offer “therapy and understanding” to the 9/11 terrorists?

Then there are the claims made at some recent tea-party events that Mr. Obama wasn’t born in America, which follow on earlier claims that he is a secret Muslim. Crazy stuff — but nowhere near as crazy as the claims, during the last Democratic administration, that the Clintons were murderers, claims that were supported by a campaign of innuendo on the part of big-league conservative media outlets and figures, especially Rush Limbaugh.

Speaking of Mr. Limbaugh: the most impressive thing about his role right now is the fealty he is able to demand from the rest of the right. The abject apologies he has extracted from Republican politicians who briefly dared to criticize him have been right out of Stalinist show trials.....ferocious party discipline has been the norm since the 1990s, when Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, became known as “The Hammer” in part because of the way he took political retribution on opponents.

Going back to those tea parties, Mr. DeLay, a fierce opponent of the theory of evolution — he famously suggested that the teaching of evolution led to the Columbine school massacre — also foreshadowed the denunciations of evolution that have emerged at some of the parties.

Last but not least: it turns out that the tea parties don’t represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, and supported by the usual group of right-wing billionaires. And the parties are, of course, being promoted heavily by Fox News.

But that’s nothing new, and AstroTurf has worked well for Republicans in the past. The most notable example was the “spontaneous” riot back in 2000 — actually orchestrated by G.O.P. strategists — that shut down the presidential vote recount in Florida’s Miami-Dade County.

So what’s the implication of the fact that Republicans are refusing to grow up, the fact that they are still behaving the same way they did when history seemed to be on their side? I’d say that it’s good for Democrats, at least in the short run — but it’s bad for the country.

For now, the Obama administration gains a substantial advantage from the fact that it has no credible opposition, especially on economic policy, where the Republicans seem particularly clueless.

But as I said, the G.O.P. remains one of America’s great parties, and events could still put that party back in power. We can only hope that Republicans have moved on by the time that happens.

[Ikasu]

Krugman takes the Republican party to school.

I guess he's now cool with Obama liberals, until he criticizes their hero again?

[Laura Cereta]

Well, if I was trying to characterize behavior I don't understand, minimize a group of people I disagree with, and throw in some name calling and vague charges of "crazy," then I "couldn't have said it better myself."

This article is the usual NYT style smear.

Thus, President Obama is being called a “socialist” who seeks to destroy capitalism. Why? Because he wants to raise the tax rate on the highest-income Americans back to, um, about 10 percentage points less than it was for most of the Reagan administration. Bizarre.


No, *Obama is being called a socialist because for one, he IS a former member of the Democratic Socialist Party in the US. Secondly, he is making serious attempts to nationalize private entities. Thirdly, he is opening engaging in mass wealth redistribution. Fourthly, by the time it's all over, EVERYONE'S taxes will be raised to fund things like socialized medicine. Think not? What about the welfare Mom who smokes a pack of Kool's a day? Her taxes have just been raised. This will go on. The federal income tax is only one of many ways to tax a person.



But the charge of socialism is being thrown around only because “liberal” doesn’t seem to carry the punch it used to. And if you go back just a few years, you find top Republican figures making equally bizarre claims about what liberals were up to. Remember when Karl Rove declared that liberals wanted to offer “therapy and understanding” to the 9/11 terrorists?
Then there are the claims made at some recent tea-party events that Mr. Obama wasn’t born in America, which follow on earlier claims that he is a secret Muslim. Crazy stuff — but nowhere near as crazy as the claims, during the last Democratic administration, that the Clintons were murderers, claims that were supported by a campaign of innuendo on the part of big-league conservative media outlets and figures, especially Rush Limbaugh.

Rove was being sarcastic. In terms of where "Mr. Obama" was born, all he needs to do is produce a vault birth certificate and there will be no more "crazy" talk about it.

Back to the tea parties. Notice the *Obama campaign was considered genuinely grassroots even though MoveOn.org, Soros, ACORN, and others had their hands all up in every move. But if top Repubs get involved in a protest of citizens then it's "fake grass roots"? I don't think so and making fun of others' political activism doesn't serve any real purpose except to sale papers.

In closing, I'd like to politely ask Mr. Krugman to f*** off. Thank you.

[Jobu86]

Good article. Sums it all up pretty nicely.

[hobbitt]

the Obama administration gains a substantial advantage from the fact that it has no credible opposition,

Republicans are refusing to grow up,

We can only hope that Republicans have moved on by the time that happens.


And only Limbaugh, Delay, Rove as examples of Republicans ? (he forgot Wide Stance Larry, David Vitter and Mark Foley).

Mr. Krugman sounds remarkably Bot-Like.

[Ikasu]

And only Limbaugh, Delay, Rove as examples of Republicans ? (he forgot Wide Stance Larry, David Vitter and Mark Foley).

Mr. Krugman sounds remarkably Bot-Like.

What plans do the real Republicans have? His point is valid.

And the "bots" do not like Krugman much since he criticized Obama's economic plans (and the primary campaign last year).

[Alces95]

Well, if I was trying to characterize behavior I don't understand, minimize a group of people I disagree with, and throw in some name calling and vague charges of "crazy," then I "couldn't have said it better myself."


In closing, I'd like to politely ask Mr. Krugman to f*** off. Thank you.



Laura. Your killing me.

I was thinking I was agreeing with you with the above and then you continue your thought....

You did exactly what Krugman did except it was simply just anti-Obama.

Think of your sources! The same folks that gave you the "He's a member of the Socialist Party!!! Panic!!!" also gave you this gem:
"Folks this is Scary. Barack Obama is not an extreme Liberal. Hillary Clinton is an Extreme liberal. Barack Obama is a Socialist." (http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2008/10/senator-obama-signed-contract-with.html)

Think they are right about HRC too?

They were helpful and gave us a list of socialists in congress, including Tubbs Jones. (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/10/obama-socialist.html) Think they are right about that one as well?

Then the BC thing...=D>

You said in another thread that you did want extreme left or right wing sites but I have to point out where your info is coming from.

On point however, I think Obama is a left leaning leader. I do not think he is acting like a socialist.
I don't agree with his economic policy to a T (which I have come to learn stands for Tao:)) but I also have not seen an alternative. I truly think the Republican alternative is similar to what they accused the Dems of doing during Bush Iraq war plans. They don't offer solutions just critiques and hope that the economy fails. Rush is right; they are hoping his failure because they have not been part of a solution. (If you hear a Repub say, "But we haven't been invited," ask them how long they would sit on the sideline hoping to dance. Didn't work in middle school either.)
If is flourishes, they are in trouble.

Let's make the debate honest! Be honest with ourselves if nothing else.

[matiah]

Smear article and street language. Long gone are the days when the NYT was a forum for civil debate. I stopped reading this rag a long time ago.

[Laura Cereta]

Laura. Your killing me.

I was thinking I was agreeing with you with the above and then you continue your thought....

You did exactly what Krugman did except it was simply just anti-Obama.

Think of your sources! The same folks that gave you the "He's a member of the Socialist Party!!! Panic!!!" also gave you this gem:
"Folks this is Scary. Barack Obama is not an extreme Liberal. Hillary Clinton is an Extreme liberal. Barack Obama is a Socialist." (http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2008/10/senator-obama-signed-contract-with.html)

Think they are right about HRC too?

They were helpful and gave us a list of socialists in congress, including Tubbs Jones. (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/10/obama-socialist.html) Think they are right about that one as well?

Then the BC thing...=D>

You said in another thread that you did want extreme left or right wing sites but I have to point out where your info is coming from.

On point however, I think Obama is a left leaning leader. I do not think he is acting like a socialist.
I don't agree with his economic policy to a T (which I have come to learn stands for Tao:)) but I also have not seen an alternative. I truly think the Republican alternative is similar to what they accused the Dems of doing during Bush Iraq war plans. They don't offer solutions just critiques and hope that the economy fails. Rush is right; they are hoping his failure because they have not been part of a solution. (If you hear a Repub say, "But we haven't been invited," ask them how long they would sit on the sideline hoping to dance. Didn't work in middle school either.)
If is flourishes, they are in trouble.

Let's make the debate honest! Be honest with ourselves if nothing else.

I AM thinking of my sources. Somewhere in these archives is an actual scan of a document put out by the Democratic Socialist Party and it clearly had the name Barack Hussein Obama on it. This was from back in his state legislature days.

The Republicans HAVE put out other ideas. Just because Bush messed a lot of things up doesn't change the principle that cutting taxes increases revenue. The best idea I've heard so far is giving workers a tax holiday. This would let everyone who goes to work at a legal profession keep 100% of what they make. This would certainly help stimulate the economy.

Krugman's article was a biased, unenlightened, opinion piece. This isn't a surprise to me but let's not pretend it's competent journalism. Calling people you disagree with "crazy" is as juvenile as me telling him to f' off. I felt the need to speak down at his level, though. ;)

[Tim4Hillary]

I'm no fan of the NYT but Krugman makes some good points. The truth hurts I'm sure. And to think I was "this" close to supporting a Republican for President because the Democratic Party had pis*ed me off so bad. Then I only needed a couple weeks of the budget stuff in California, the anti-gay continuing saga, and the "let's say no to everything but not have any real ideas of our own" to quickly snap me back to reality. Again, a Jerry Ford Repub party I could deal with but I'll fight with every fiber in my body to ensure that the neocon/fundamentalist wing of the party never takes over again. The Republican Party has no one but themselves to blame for their current state of affairs (image problem?). Hopefully, they have grown up enough to learn from it instead of playing victim or demonstrating some kind of persecution complex.

[Jester]

This guy Krugman embarrasses himself more by the day. Why does the O crew like to pick and choose Krugman's editorials?

[agatha]

Why is that when Democrats protested the war in Iraq, it was touted as "the highest form of patriotism" but when Republicans (and technically it isn't just Republicans) protest unsustainable spending and generational theft of our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren... without their representation, they are "refusing to grow up," told to "move on" and mocked. :thinking:


This article is not journalism. This is crap.

From my daily Tea Party email...

The Tea Party movement is a genuine bottom-up. grassroots protest. It’s fueled by angst and rage arising from a feeling of helplessness at the realization that the people have lost control of their government.

What many people don’t recognize yet is the proper target of their rage: a self-serving, self perpetuating, inbred and bipartisan political class.




And anyone who says the Republicans have not offered anything hasn't looked at the Republican's budget.

Power corrupts. This country NEEDS a strong two party system. **==



You might like this (http://www.gaypatriot.net/2009/04/09/tea-party-movement-phenomenon-based-on-an-idea/)blog from the Gay Patriot.

[Jester]

Power corrupts. This country NEEDS a strong two party system. **==

I agree. Let's start by not inviting the Dems or Repubs to this dual party. Joe Biden is cool though. He can bring his 12 part plan.

[OzDemocrat]

And anyone who says the Republicans have not offered anything hasn't looked at the Republican's budget. The one that 1 in 3 republican members in congress actually voted against despite surely being 100% confident it would never have passed, or the second (less conservative) attempt that 1 in 5 republicans still voted against?

[Tim4Hillary]

The one that 1 in 3 republican members in congress actually voted against despite surely being 100% confident it would never have passed, or the second (less conservative) attempt that 1 in 5 republicans still voted against?

Or was it the budget without any numbers?? :rotfl:

[devildog]

Why is it considered immature to protest higher taxes, wasteful government spending, or for politicians to read the damn bills first before they vote for them? Was it immature to protest the war? Was it immature to protest Prop 8?

I could go on and on.........

[Jester]

Or was it the budget without any numbers?? :rotfl:

You might want to keep up on that story. The minority party is not supposed to write a competing budget. They are supposed to present their ideas and those ideas are supposed to be considered. Obama changed the rules in a prime time address and they responded to prove he was lying.

[agatha]

I agree. Let's start by not inviting the Dems or Repubs to this dual party. Joe Biden is cool though. He can bring his 12 part plan.



I'm fine with ditching both the donkeys and the elephants. :laughing: I don't get the Biden 12 part plan comment though. Must have missed something...

[Jester]

I'm fine with ditching both the donkeys and the elephants. :laughing: I don't get the Biden 12 part plan comment though. Must have missed something...

It was a cartoon I posted elsewhere. Think 6 pack x 2.

[Mangolynn]

Well, if I was trying to characterize behavior I don't understand, minimize a group of people I disagree with, and throw in some name calling and vague charges of "crazy," then I "couldn't have said it better myself."

This article is the usual NYT style smear.




No, *Obama is being called a socialist because for one, he IS a former member of the Democratic Socialist Party in the US. Secondly, he is making serious attempts to nationalize private entities. Thirdly, he is opening engaging in mass wealth redistribution. Fourthly, by the time it's all over, EVERYONE'S taxes will be raised to fund things like socialized medicine. Think not? What about the welfare Mom who smokes a pack of Kool's a day? Her taxes have just been raised. This will go on. The federal income tax is only one of many ways to tax a person.





Rove was being sarcastic. In terms of where "Mr. Obama" was born, all he needs to do is produce a vault birth certificate and there will be no more "crazy" talk about it.

Back to the tea parties. Notice the *Obama campaign was considered genuinely grassroots even though MoveOn.org, Soros, ACORN, and others had their hands all up in every move. But if top Repubs get involved in a protest of citizens then it's "fake grass roots"? I don't think so and making fun of others' political activism doesn't serve any real purpose except to sale papers.

In closing, I'd like to politely ask Mr. Krugman to f*** off. Thank you.

Wow~ Ms Laura, you DO tell it like it IS. I am in awe of you! And I am taking part in tomorrow's Tea Party with a group of friends who are Democrats and Republicans. This really is a grass-roots movement of the people, not any party. I'm already aware of the fact (it's been on the news here all day) that the tea party in St. Paul WILL be infiltrated by liberals holding disgusting signs trying to denigrate the entire movement. ACORN will be out if full force, but we're still going to show up!

[Jester]

ACORN will be out if full force, but we're still going to show up!

Stimulus dollars at work. Paid protesters.

[CGP]

Stimulus dollars at work. Paid protesters.

:rolleyes: