Political Labeling - Is anyone else just sick of labeling themselves an "ideology"?

[ZY123]

Political labels: an incessant waste of time and space. I’m over it.

The whole: “All conservatives are evil bastards and all liberals and socialists” thing. Or the “I hate all ‘blank’ supporters” (substitute Obama or Palin no matter). I mean if you really think about it these political decisions are often based on personal experiences and situations, so how can one possibly judge the other without knowing where they are coming from? I see all these political boards (including my own) where a little posse develops and anyone who doesn’t see it exactly the group’s way is a raging blank (insert some evil word like conservative or liberal). The bottom line is actual people stand behind all these labels and if we would all take the time to know the people behind the “other” label perhaps the label wouldn’t be so important anymore.

My point? Eh…not much, just reacting to a few threads I’m reading….it’s just that in the end of things we all sit in the same house so what does the political affiliation behind where we got there really matter?

[Suzan]

I agree. Labels make it convenient to organize our world, but they also make it convenient to do damage. Us versus them--and all of them are evil. No one looks any further than the label.

It would be an interesting experiment to go without all labels and see if people could figure out our political affiliation and/or belief system just based on our posts.

That said, I don't mind the Independent label at all. We haven't pledged allegiance to either side, which leaves us free to be open to valid arguments on any issue from both sides. Also, we haven't been stereotyped or pidgeon-holed yet. Not a bad place to be.

[ZY123]

I agree. Labels make it convenient to organize our world, but they also make it convenient to do damage. Us versus them--and all of them are evil. No one looks any further than the label.

It would be an interesting experiment to go without all labels and see if people could figure out our political affiliation and/or belief system just based on our posts.

That said, I don't mind the Independent label at all. We haven't pledged allegiance to either side, which leaves us free to be open to valid arguments on any issue from both sides. Also, we haven't been stereotyped or pidgeon-holed yet. Not a bad place to be.

hehe...like my label? =P

The truth of it is humans naturally organize the world by object categories and then assign attributes and behaviors to those general categories of objects. What we forget is each "instance" of an object categories as different specifics of each attribute. (This is a Computer Science Analogy...LOL...but it holds)

[Suzan]

hehe...like my label? =P

The truth of it is humans naturally organize the world by object categories and then assign attributes and behaviors to those general categories of objects. What we forget is each "instance" of an object categories as different specifics of each attribute. (This is a Computer Science Analogy...LOL...but it holds)

:thumbsup: on the label!

The analogy too. Sounds exactly like what I learned in Learning Theory (psychology).

[Spang]

Can I still be an elitist liberal?

[Suzan]

Sure, but you'll have to gargle lattes, cruise around in limos and grow arugala in your backyard garden. You don't have to eat it, just grow it and maybe give it away to the local food bank.

Also, you will have to go totally green and ride a bicycle to power your toaster.

Are you up to all that, Big Boy? ;)

[Spang]

Are you up to all that, Big Boy? ;)

I shall do my best.

[ZY123]

Can I still be an elitist liberal?

ELITIST! :mad::mad:

[Jester]

Can I still be an elitist liberal?

Thankfully you don't have to be rich and/or successful to be an elitist, so your label is not in question. You aren't a liberal however.

[Spang]

You aren't a liberal however.

What am I?

[Jester]

What am I?

If people that know you personally can't answer that question for you, how can I?

[ZY123]

What am I?

A left leaner.

[Spang]

A left leaner.

Really? What do I have to do to become a liberal?

[ZY123]

Really? What do I have to do to become a liberal?

Ask Jester, I think it has something to do with Ron Paul. (I'd explain it myself but I'm not sure. ;))

[Spang]

Ask Jester, I think it has something to do with Ron Paul. (I'd explain it myself but I'm not sure. ;))

Isn't Ron Paul a conservative?

[ZY123]

Isn't Ron Paul a conservative?

haha....maybe we need to look up the labels and figure them all out....I'm not sure on the exact technical meaning of liberal and conservative when it comes right down to it.

here's liberal from wiki (looks like the definition may have morphed throughout time):

Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that considers individual liberty and equality to be the most important political goals.[1]

Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Within liberalism, there are various streams of thought which compete over the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for constitutional liberalism, which encompasses support for: freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private property,[2] and a transparent system of government.[3][4][5] All liberals, as well as some adherents of other political ideologies, support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.[6]

According to author and philosophy professor Peter Vallentyne, "Liberalism comes in two broad forms. Classical liberalism emphasizes the importance of individual liberty and contemporary (or welfare) liberalism tends to emphasize some kind of material equality."[7] In Europe, the term "liberalism" is closer to the economic outlook of American economic conservatives. According to Harry Girvetz and Minoque Kenneth "contemporary liberalism has come to represent different things to Americans and Europeans: In the United States it is associated with the welfare-state policies of the New Deal program of Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt, whereas in Europe liberals are more commonly conservative in their political and economic outlook".[8] In the United States, "liberalism" is most often used in the sense of social liberalism, which supports some regulation of business and other economic interventionism which they believe to be in the public interest. A philosophy holding a position in accordance with Adam Smith, that laissez-faire economics will bring about a spontaneous order or an invisible hand that benefits the society, is referred to as "classical liberalism."[9].

[Jester]

haha....maybe we need to look up the labels and figure them all out....I'm not sure on the exact technical meaning of liberal and conservative when it comes right down to it.

here's liberal from wiki (looks like the definition may have morphed throughout time):

You rock.

[ZY123]

You rock.

So do I win a prize?:D

Just for fun here's the "conservatism" one. It's much longer and even more vague....and below there's a definition for a "liberal conservative"...eeek.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

Conservatism is a political and social term from the Latin verb conservare meaning to save or preserve.[1] As the name suggests it usually indicates support for tradition and traditional values though the meaning has changed in different countries and time periods. The modern political term conservative was used by French politician Chateaubriand in 1819.[2] In Western politics, the term conservatism often refers to the school of thought started by Edmund Burke and similar thinkers.[3] Scholar R. J. White wrote: "To put conservatism in a bottle with a label is like trying to liquify the atmosphere […] The difficulty arises from the nature of the thing. For conservatism is less a political doctrine than a habit of mind, a mode of feeling, a way of living."[4] Russell Kirk considered conservatism "the negation of ideology".[5]

Conservative political parties have diverse views; the Liberal Democratic Party in Japan, the Republican Party in the United States, the Conservative Party in Britain, the Liberal Party of Australia, and the Bharatiya Janata Party in India are all considered major conservative parties with varying positions.

From the beginning, some political thought could be labelled "conservative" but it was not until the Age of Enlightenment, and the reaction to events surrounding the French Revolution of 1789, that conservatism rose as a distinct political attitude or train of thought. Many point to the rise of a conservative disposition in the wake of the Protestant Reformation, specifically to the works of influential Anglican theologian, Richard Hooker, emphasizing moderation in the political balancing of interests towards the goals of social harmony and common good. Edmund Burke’s polemic Reflections on the Revolution in France helped conservatism gain prominence.

Edmund Burke supported the American Revolution, but opposed the French Revolution, which he saw as violent and chaotic. He pressed for parliamentary control of royal patronage and expenditure.[6]

His classical conservative position insisted that conservatism has no ideology, in the sense of a utopian program, with some form of master plan. Burke developed his ideas in response to the enlightened idea of a society guided by abstract reason.

.....more at link



Liberal Conservatism

Liberal conservatism is a variant of conservatism that combines conservative values and policies with liberal stances. As these latter two terms have had different meanings over time and across countries, liberal conservatism also has a wide variety of meanings. Historically, the term often referred to the combination of economic liberalism, which champions laissez-faire markets, with the classical conservatism concern for established tradition, respect for authority and religious values. It contrasted itself with classical liberalism, which supported freedom for the individual in both the economic and social spheres.

Over time, the general conservative ideology in many countries adopted economic liberal arguments, and the term liberal conservatism was replaced with conservatism. This is also the case in countries where liberal economic ideas have been the tradition, such as the United States, and are thus considered conservative. In other countries where liberal conservative movements have entered the political mainstream, such as Italy and Spain, the terms liberal and conservative may be synonymous. The liberal conservative tradition in the United States combines the economic individualism of the classical liberals with a Burkean form of conservatism (which has also become part of the American conservative tradition, such as in the writings of Russell Kirk).

A secondary meaning for the term liberal conservatism that has developed in Europe is a combination of more modern conservative (less traditionalist) views with those of social liberalism. This has developed as an opposition to the more collectivist views of socialism. Often this involves stressing what are now conservative views of free-market economics and belief in individual responsibility, with social liberal views on defence of civil rights, environmentalism and support for a limited welfare state. This philosophy is that of Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt. In continental Europe, this is sometimes also translated into English as social conservatism.

[Meg]

Political labels: an incessant waste of time and space. I’m over it.

The whole: “All conservatives are evil bastards and all liberals and socialists” thing. Or the “I hate all ‘blank’ supporters” (substitute Obama or Palin no matter). I mean if you really think about it these political decisions are often based on personal experiences and situations, so how can one possibly judge the other without knowing where they are coming from? I see all these political boards (including my own) where a little posse develops and anyone who doesn’t see it exactly the group’s way is a raging blank (insert some evil word like conservative or liberal). The bottom line is actual people stand behind all these labels and if we would all take the time to know the people behind the “other” label perhaps the label wouldn’t be so important anymore.

My point? Eh…not much, just reacting to a few threads I’m reading….it’s just that in the end of things we all sit in the same house so what does the political affiliation behind where we got there really matter?

LOL Which is I went with just Ninja! :laughing:

[Jester]

So do I win a prize?:D

Do you want one?

Just for fun here's the "conservatism" one.

I never cared for much of either liberal/conservative. I like giant douche and turd sandwich. I align myself with the turd sandwich wing because you get the turd and the sandwich, whereas giant douche is just, well, a giant douche.

[Jester]

LOL Which is I went with just Ninja! :laughing:

I think I can take you.

[Meg]

I never cared for much of either liberal/conservative. I like giant douche and turd sandwich. I align myself with the turd sandwich wing because you get the turd and the sandwich, whereas giant douche is just, well, a giant douche.

HEY! That's from south park! :laughing:

I think I can take you.

Eh... I doubt it! >:/

[Jester]

Eh... I doubt it! >:/

I'm not afraid to sweep the leg.

[Meg]

I'm not afraid to sweep the leg.

And I aim low.

[Jester]

And I aim low.

Are you coming on to me ?

[Meg]

Are you coming on to me ?

I meant hitting people... not my standards. :laughing:

[Jester]

I meant hitting people... not my standards. :laughing:

Elitist.

[Meg]

Elitist.

Sorry, I don't drink lattes. [-X

[Jester]

Sorry, I don't drink lattes. [-X

You would, but you are a cash only customer. When they say your cash is no good here, they are being literal.

[Meg]

You would, but you are a cash only customer. When they say your cash is no good here, they are being literal.

LOL! But I don't like any coffee like drinks. [-X

[Jester]

LOL! But I don't like any coffee like drinks. [-X

Show no mercy. Body blow.

[Meg]

Show no mercy. Body blow.

WTF was this thread about again? :laughing:

[Jester]

WTF was this thread about again? :laughing:

Ninjas.

[hillary4change]

Can I still be an elitist liberal?

Of course Spang! We wouldn't want you any other way!

Nor would we be able to recognize you! ;););)

As long as I can be a snobby hypocritical bible thumper, we are good to go!!**==

[Horizon]

Of course Spang! We wouldn't want you any other way!

Nor would we be able to recognize you! ;););)

As long as I can be a snobby hypocritical bible thumper, we are good to go!!**==

I will be the Latte Liberal. I AM a Lib, and I LOVE Lattes. Make sense to me!
Oh, and my car is not a hybrid, but it gets 30-35 mpg. I think that almost qualifies as Lib transportation!

[hillary4change]

I will be the Latte Liberal. I AM a Lib, and I LOVE Lattes. Make sense to me!
Oh, and my car is not a hybrid, but it gets 30-35 mpg. I think that almost qualifies as Lib transportation!

Hey I love Lattes and am liberal on social issues, but I still love my bible. I guess I am ok as long as I don't knock my Latte over with my Bible!!!:laughing:;) My car gets thirty miles to the gallon too.

[VotingHillary]

Is "sick of the whole *ucking lot of them" a political label? Or just good sense? :rotfl:

[ZY123]

Is "sick of the whole *ucking lot of them" a political label? Or just good sense? :rotfl:

yep...that sums it up...sick of the ******* bullshit lot of them. :D

[Spang]

Of course Spang! We wouldn't want you any other way!

Nor would we be able to recognize you! ;););)

As long as I can be a snobby hypocritical bible thumper, we are good to go!!**==

So, does this mean I am a liberal?

[ZY123]

So, does this mean I am a liberal?

hahahahhaha....I like the new label "I don't know"

[ZY123]

Do you want one?



I never cared for much of either liberal/conservative. I like giant douche and turd sandwich. I align myself with the turd sandwich wing because you get the turd and the sandwich, whereas giant douche is just, well, a giant douche.

Well...I'd put you with the giant douches before the turds...you know because of your views and all.

[eyedoc333]

I just changed mine to "Hillicratic" :)

[mavfin]

Is "sick of the whole *ucking lot of them" a political label? Or just good sense? :rotfl:

Good sense and you seem to go together well. :rockon:

[sojourner]

Political labels: an incessant waste of time and space. I’m over it.

The whole: “All conservatives are evil bastards and all liberals and socialists” thing. Or the “I hate all ‘blank’ supporters” (substitute Obama or Palin no matter). I mean if you really think about it these political decisions are often based on personal experiences and situations, so how can one possibly judge the other without knowing where they are coming from? I see all these political boards (including my own) where a little posse develops and anyone who doesn’t see it exactly the group’s way is a raging blank (insert some evil word like conservative or liberal). The bottom line is actual people stand behind all these labels and if we would all take the time to know the people behind the “other” label perhaps the label wouldn’t be so important anymore.


I few months ago I started a thread titled “You might be a conservative if…” to see how individual members defined “conservative.” The definitions varied widely and conservatives defined themselves much differently than non-conservative, so one problem with using ideological labels is that we all have difference definitions.

Another is that most of us, although we identify with one political philosophy, have views that spread across the political spectrum.

As with many issues, I am ambivalent on this one. If you post your political ideology, many readers will interpret your comments differently than if you did not declare an ideology. On the other hand it gives you the opportunity to better define you ideology in the minds of others and to demonstrate that we all have more in common than we had previously thought.

A lot of what I am thinking is summed up better and more succinctly by zhaan in post #3.
The truth of it is humans naturally organize the world by object categories and then assign attributes and behaviors to those general categories of objects. What we forget is each "instance" of an object categories as different specifics of each attribute. (This is a Computer Science Analogy...LOL...but it holds)


My point? Eh…not much, just reacting to a few threads I’m reading….it’s just that in the end of things we all sit in the same house so what does the political affiliation behind where we got there really matter?

I have had the same reaction. Although I am registered in CA as decline-to-state, I consider myself a conservative with all the disclaimers listed above. It is more a definition of how I approach issues that it is on my position on issues. When I first visited this site it was right after Obama won the primary. Many of the members were, I assumed, moderate democrats with some left-leaning democrats. There was a thread on member’s positions on various issues and to my surprise I found myself in agreement with the majority of them. Also there were some heated discussions on hot button issues. There were a lot of rants but also a number of posts with relevant information and thoughtful presentations of various positions. I learned a lot and modified my position on some issues.

Later when there was talk about changing the direction of the thread to a search for common ground I thought it could work. Now I am not so sure. In a number of recent threads that showed promise a poster from one side could not resist taking a gratuitous shot at the other side. The other side retaliated and all hope of a reasonable discussion dissolve. This tread seems to be increasing. Many of the posters who were willing to fight their way through the cheap shot, insults, jokes, sarcasm, etc. seem to have lost their energy or have left the forum.

This site is a little schizophrenic anyway. Maybe it should be the old Hillary Clinton Forum – allowing posts from all points of view or not.

[Laura Cereta]

Yes, the political ideology labeling makes me very sad because I don't actually fit in anywhere anymore. The 2008 election season left me homeless!! :(

[mavfin]

Yes, the political ideology labeling makes me very sad because I don't actually fit in anywhere anymore. The 2008 election season left me homeless!! :(

There are people on the forum whose threads I avoid, because they mainly post them to take cheap shots at others. I don't have time for that crap. I also will call people out who like to take cheap shots at the other side, but then object if someone gives them the same back. If you can't take it, don't dish it.

I'm hard to label, simple as that, so Independent is good enough for me. I don't trust the parties, anyway.

[Jester]

My band is like nothing you have heard before. It has the raw energy of ego, the athleticism of that chick Bruce Jenner, the balls of Hillary Clinton, the caring of Katie Couric, the in your face douchery of Giant Douche and the duality of Turd Sandwich. You just can't define it. It is going to set the world afire. Ask my mom.

[Suzan]

My band is like nothing you have heard before. It has the raw energy of ego, the athleticism of that chick Bruce Jenner, the balls of Hillary Clinton, the caring of Katie Couric, the in your face douchery of Giant Douche and the duality of Turd Sandwich. You just can't define it. It is going to set the world afire. Ask my mom.
You have a band?

[sojourner]

You have a band?

Don't know about his band but judging from his posted ideology I figure he is off the charts on the right side of the political spectrum.

[Jester]

Don't know about his band but judging from his posted ideology I figure he is off the charts on the right side of the political spectrum.

:thumbsup:

[Alessandro Machi]

I have writing about this very topic lately on both http://www.dailypuma.com and on http://daily-protest.com

I am no longer a democrat or a republican. I am in fear of the credit card companies for they are the fulcrum point that is making the economy crumble.