View Full Version : (5/13/09) Obama reverses on releasing detainee photos (Politico)
VotingHillary
05-13-2009, 09:23 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22470.html
In a dramatic, high-profile reversal for his young administration, President Barack Obama is seeking to block the release of 44 photographs depicting abuse of detainees in U.S. military custody in Iraq and Afghanistan.
“The publication of these photos would not add any additional benefit to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by small number of individuals,” the president told reporters Wednesday as he left the White House on a two-day trip to the Southwest.
“In fact,' he said, "the most direct consequence of releasing them, I believe, would be to further inflame anti-American opinion and to put our troops in greater danger.”
More:
Obama’s reversal is sure to set off an outcry on the left, which has pushed the Obama administration to come clean about interrogation policies and other actions carried out by the Bush administration.
Obama endorsed such openness during the campaign – and even released memos detailing interrogation practices critics call torture.
But those “torture memos” gave Republicans fodder for attacks on Obama for weakening U.S. national security – and touched off a series of questions about what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi knew about waterboarding and other practices, and when. Obama’s move seems designed at least in part to avoid giving Republican critics new fodder for attacks – even if that means angering those on the left.
More at the link.
cinnamongirl
05-13-2009, 09:39 PM
Disappointing. I can see the politics behind it, but I really think the photos should be released in the interests of transparency and fixing the problem, instead of burying it.
mavfin
05-13-2009, 09:40 PM
Doesn't look the same to him from the President's chair, eh?
Doesn't look the same to him from the President's chair, eh?
Nothing is as clear when you're not in that chair. Remember... you can still hope for change!=D>
mavfin
05-13-2009, 11:07 PM
Nothing is as clear when you're not in that chair. Remember... you can still hope for change!=D>
Well, I had hoped that he would start to understand that it's not quite as simple once you're in the chair as it looks out on the campaign. I just wasn't holding my breath.
WASTRIC
05-13-2009, 11:09 PM
stay away from my change, its all I have left. ;-)
Well, I had hoped that he would start to understand that it's not quite as simple once you're in the chair as it looks out on the campaign. I just wasn't holding my breath.
Remember that joke Hillary made on the campaign trail, about the clouds opening up and the lights coming down? Yeah this is the kinda stuff she was talking about. You can't always paint a lovely picture just because that's the popular thing to do. ;)
Spang
05-13-2009, 11:12 PM
You can't always paint a lovely picture just because that's the popular thing to do. ;)
Bob Ross always could.
WASTRIC
05-13-2009, 11:13 PM
he was amazing
Bob Ross always could.
But he wasn't running for president! :rotfl:
Horizon
05-13-2009, 11:21 PM
I'm torn on this one. Not sure what to make of it at all. I can see good and bad in releasing them and not releasing them.
I know that I for one, do not want to see them. It just makes me ill that humans treat other humans this way.
I'm torn on this one. Not sure what to make of it at all. I can see good and bad in releasing them and not releasing them.
I know that I for one, do not want to see them. It just makes me ill that humans treat other humans this way.
What's worse is the justification afterwards. [-X
cindyb
05-13-2009, 11:31 PM
Disappointing. I can see the politics behind it, but I really think the photos should be released in the interests of transparency and fixing the problem, instead of burying it.
For sure, let's release the photo's and give the nutcases of the world something to hate our military for. :rolleyes:
Spang
05-13-2009, 11:36 PM
For sure, let's release the photo's and give the nutcases of the world something to hate our military for. :rolleyes:
The nutcases will hate us and/or our military regardless.
Ikasu
05-13-2009, 11:38 PM
The nutcases will hate us and/or our military regardless.
Agreed.
cinnamongirl
05-13-2009, 11:51 PM
For sure, let's release the photo's and give the nutcases of the world something to hate our military for. :rolleyes:
Everyone else already covered the "they already hate us" angle. But I will point out that the people in the alleged pictures weren't so concerned about the safety of the military when they abused prisoners in the first place (and took pictures so they could laugh about it later).
Lealy
05-14-2009, 12:35 AM
This is the very first thing that my current POTUS has done that I can agree with.:thumbsup:
Lealy
05-14-2009, 12:37 AM
The nutcases will hate us and/or our military regardless.
Which is why we should never have paid any attention to them to begin with.
Which is why we should never have paid any attention to them to begin with.
It's a tad bit late now!:eek:
Suzan
05-14-2009, 01:07 AM
So, what's going on? Is this just political cover or is he really concerned about enflaming anti-American opinion? I could go with him on that. But if he's concerned about this now, why wasn't he before?
Hm, I think I just answered my own question. It's political cover.
mavfin
05-14-2009, 01:09 AM
Hm, I think I just answered my own question. It's political cover.
Talking to yourself again? :D
Could be political cover. Could be he's actually found out he doesn't know everything. One can hope.
Laura Cereta
05-14-2009, 01:10 AM
Disappointing. I can see the politics behind it, but I really think the photos should be released in the interests of transparency and fixing the problem, instead of burying it.
Agreed and *stamped*. This is a disappointment. He can't stop the photos from being released, though. Only the Supreme Court can stop it now.
cindyb
05-14-2009, 01:27 PM
This is the very first thing that my current POTUS has done that I can agree with.:thumbsup:
Me too.
Spang
05-14-2009, 04:59 PM
"If we need to keep evidence of torture, like photographs, secret, to protect our troops, doesn't that suggest that torture isn't a great way to keep them or us safe?" - Josh Marshall (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/05/following_the_logic.php)
Spang
05-15-2009, 10:56 AM
Great Daily Show last night:
Moral Kombat (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=227351&title=moral-kombat)
Dan Choi Is Gay (http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=227352&title=dan-choi-is-gay)
Brooke
05-15-2009, 11:50 AM
Well the truth is, he's being a realist with this whole thing. Somebody on MSNBC made a great point. He's not trying to win over the far left, he's trying to help the Afghan people. Releasing these photos won't help us in fighting the Taliban or getting the Afghan people behind us. He's trying to do right over there. Plus, given the people he's surrounded himself with; Gates, Petraeus, Jones, Clinton, etc, it's not surprising they advised him to block this.
It's different when you're campaigning and then governing.
The far left will be disappointed. Who cares? These are the people who want to give civil rights to the people who want to kill us. I could care less if they're disappointed, to be perfectly honest. They have no interests in protecting this country at all costs, they just want to cater to everyone else and act like pansies. I'm convinced those people WANT Al Qaeda to win. Because so far, in the past 8 years, they've done nothing to prove they feel otherwise. I'm not talking about all the Democrats, I'm talking about the far far left wing radical liberals like Pelosi, et al who bitch and moan about leaving troops in Iraq. They are completely out of touch with reality. Completely. Even after 9-11, they still just DO NOT GET IT.
hobbitt
05-15-2009, 10:29 PM
Obama reverses
Shut down Gitmo.
Send the prisoners to our friends in Europe.
What? We have no friends in Europe?
Don't shut down Gitmo.
Release the prisoners.
No, send them to the US.
No, keep them at Gitmo.
Send them through the Federal Court system.
No, re-establish those military tribunals.
Prosecute the Bush lawyers.
No, don't prosecute the Bush lawyers.
Prosecute the CIA personnel. Nope. Don't.
Release the photos. Nope. don't.
Take some spiffy pix of my new Air Force One over Manhattan.
Oh God. Who decided to take some spiffy pix of my new Air Force One over Manhattan.??
Keep those pictures locked up.
OK, release one picture.
No, don't.
OK, somebody resign.
No lobbyists in my administration.
OK, many lobbyists in my administration.
Full and thorough vetting of all appointees.
Oops. Ok, somebody resign over that one.
Full support of Tim Geithner.
Rahm, get over there and take charge.
No signing statements in my administration.
Here I am, signing my first bill, and here is my first signing statement.
No off-shore drilling.
OK, some off-shore drilling.
No nuclear plants.
Well, let's get some nuclear plants in here.
Troops home by October.
Send more troops.
Yes on school vouchers.
No on school vouchers.
No on FISA. Yes on FISA. No on FISA. Yes on FISA.
Path to citizenship immigration policy.
Nah - Enforcement-first immigration policy.
Open the books at GM.
Hide the books at SEIU.
No nationalization of banks.
We own the banks.
No bailouts for GM.
We own the auto industry.
No Mexican trucks.
Bienvenido!
Swine flu? Not a problem.
Swine flu -- close the schools!
We love General David McKiernan.
David who?
Invade Pakistan.
Send Pakistan more big bucks instead.
Appoint an IT CIO.
IT CIO takes extended leave.
Support Gay Rights.
Fire gay translator.
Yes on Clean Coal.
No clean coal plants to be built.
Pay freeze for White House staff.
Lets have a dress-up cocktail party every week.
There are probably more, but my mind is wandering. I keep thinking of those hard-hitting investigative reporters who are all on top of these things. You know, the guys who ask the President what is it about the office which enchants him.
Ikasu
05-15-2009, 10:35 PM
hobbitt, you are brilliant!
There are probably more, but my mind is wandering. I keep thinking of those hard-hitting investigative reporters who are all on top of these things. You know, the guys who ask the President what is it about the office which enchants him.
LMAO! I just read through all of them! Perfect!!!!:rotfl:
The_Basseteer
05-15-2009, 11:04 PM
The far left will be disappointed. Who cares? These are the people who want to give civil rights to the people who want to kill us. I could care less if they're disappointed, to be perfectly honest. They have no interests in protecting this country at all costs, they just want to cater to everyone else and act like pansies. I'm convinced those people WANT Al Qaeda to win. Because so far, in the past 8 years, they've done nothing to prove they feel otherwise. I'm not talking about all the Democrats, I'm talking about the far far left wing radical liberals like Pelosi, et al who bitch and moan about leaving troops in Iraq. They are completely out of touch with reality. Completely. Even after 9-11, they still just DO NOT GET IT.
The fourth sign of the Apocalypse...My agreeing with you on a subject....damn Common Ground Politics
The_Basseteer
05-15-2009, 11:08 PM
There are probably more, but my mind is wandering. I keep thinking of those hard-hitting investigative reporters who are all on top of these things. You know, the guys who ask the President what is it about the office which enchants him.
Where were those hard hitting investigative reporters during the Presidential Campaign....Oh yeah..hard hitting, investigating Gov. Palin.
Suzan
05-16-2009, 12:11 AM
A smart thread with entertainment value!
Hobbit should win an award for that list. Damn, that was so good I'm scrolling up to read it again.
And Basseetter, loved your response to CF: The fourth sign of the Apocalypse...My agreeing with you on a subject....damn Common Ground Politics
I am starting to get very confused about Obama's various reverses or flip-flops! I can't keep track.
I am starting to get very confused about Obama's various reverses or flip-flops! I can't keep track.
No worries. Hobbit's got it under control! :thumbsup:
The_Basseteer
05-16-2009, 12:54 AM
I am starting to get very confused about Obama's various reverses or flip-flops! I can't keep track.
Can we chalk that up as inexperience? He's never been in a position where he has to make hard decisions that affect people's lives. He's finding that you can't always decide by "how you feel" and the the people on your side don't always have your best interests at heart.
Can we chalk that up as inexperience? He's never been in a position where he has to make hard decisions that affect people's lives. He's finding that you can't always decide by "how you feel" and the the people on your side don't always have your best interests at heart.
I think so.
But what he is doing is no surprise...unfortunately.
Spang
05-16-2009, 12:59 AM
He's finding that you can't always decide by "how you feel" and the the people on your side don't always have your best interests at heart.
Liberals don't have a problem criticizing their own.
Liberals don't have a problem criticizing their own.
Unless their last name is OBAMA!
Spang
05-16-2009, 01:06 AM
Unless their last name is OBAMA!
Liberals have criticized Obama plenty. It started when he chose that gay-bashing religious dude to say religious stuff at the Inauguration.
Brooke
05-16-2009, 10:31 AM
The fourth sign of the Apocalypse...My agreeing with you on a subject....damn Common Ground Politics
Hahaha!! I'm sure there are many more things we agree on. :)
Hobbit, that was freaking hysterical. And brilliant! :laughing:
foxyladi
05-16-2009, 11:10 AM
Doesn't look the same to him from the President's chair, eh?
totally different:rotfl:
Brooke
05-16-2009, 11:31 AM
Liberals don't have a problem criticizing their own.
Neither do Conservatives. Look at how John McCain's been treated by his own party.
devildog
05-16-2009, 12:03 PM
I actually agree with the President on this one. It will put our troops in greater danger.
The_Basseteer
05-16-2009, 01:25 PM
Neither do Conservatives. Look at how John McCain's been treated by his own party.
His Own Party...heck look how those of us in his own state criticize him.
Laura Cereta
05-16-2009, 01:59 PM
Everyone else already covered the "they already hate us" angle. But I will point out that the people in the alleged pictures weren't so concerned about the safety of the military when they abused prisoners in the first place (and took pictures so they could laugh about it later).
Very good point. Let's leave the responsibility where it should be-- with the perpetrators, and I'm sorry, but I believe with their supervisors, and their supervisors... all the way up. That's part of being the boss. Showing clearly what happened will help to prevent it from happening in the future.
On a purely legal angle, ACLU is right that the Freedom of Information Act legally entitles them to the pictures. I don't know that the government will be able to make a strong enough argument to the SCOTUS (if they even agree to hear arguments) to keep the pix from being released.
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