(6/1/09) Obama Aides Still Leery of Hillary Sneak Attack (The Daily Intel/New York Magazine online)

[VotingHillary]

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/06/obama_aides_still_leery_of_hil.html

An excerpt from Richard Wolffe's forthcoming book on Barack Obama's presidential campaign — which Obama personally requested Wolffe write — reveals that Obama had made the decision to offer secretary of State to Hillary Clinton "surprisingly early," even before the primaries ended (and therefore easily predating much of that Hillary-as-VP speculation that the Obama campaign let foment). He knew that, despite the hard feelings in both camps, Hillary "possessed the qualities to carry his diplomacy to the rest of the world," and he didn't worry much about her and her husband's famous ambition. But others on Team Obama are still waiting for the moment when Hillary tries to bring down the entire administration, or something. "There are plenty who don't trust her and think she still harbors something," a senior adviser says. "It's still potentially problematic down the road." Sigh. That was one tough primary.

I am soooooooooooooooo sick of this. What more does she have to do? She campaigned for him when she could have kicked back her heels after the primary...and did more than any losing candidate I have seen in my lifetime. BTW, Kennedy went home and pouted instead of supporting Carter which helped bring us Reagan...thanks alot Ted. :mad: She accepted the SOS position and has made sure the limelight is the President's.

So what these "others" (more strawmen) on Team Obama are saying is that their boss must be stupid since he chose her? They think they are smarter than him?

This nonsense just has to stop.

[sojourner]

Ever notice how the people that worry the most about others potential less than honest and open dealings are the ones that practice them themselves?

[Amy Dugan]

they sound like they know of dirt under the rug. maybe they are worried for a reason

[Suzan]

Well, I gotta say it. I sure hope she's still harboring some presidential ambitions.

[Horizon]

they sound like they know of dirt under the rug. maybe they are worried for a reason

We know that she has the dirt. If she was gonna let it out, she would have done so long before now. She has kept it under hat like the class act she is. Kudos to her for not letting it rip, and then not becoming SoS, a position I think she was greatly needed in.

They should be scared. They should be VERY scared.

[Amy Dugan]

We know that she has the dirt. If she was gonna let it out, she would have done so long before now. She has kept it under hat like the class act she is. Kudos to her for not letting it rip, and then not becoming SoS, a position I think she was greatly needed in.

They should be scared. They should be VERY scared.

i was not referring to campaign dirt but new dirt only those inside the administration know of.
i dont know of any, but their comments lead me to think there is dirt

[Horizon]

i was not referring to campaign dirt but new dirt only those inside the administration know of.
i dont know of any, but their comments lead me to think there is dirt

Oh, I see now. I bet there is, I think there is in most administrations. Given the amount they had before the GE, I would bet there is quite a large pile by now.

[TheTaoOfBill]

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/06/obama_aides_still_leery_of_hil.html



I am soooooooooooooooo sick of this. What more does she have to do? She campaigned for him when she could have kicked back her heels after the primary...and did more than any losing candidate I have seen in my lifetime. BTW, Kennedy went home and pouted instead of supporting Carter which helped bring us Reagan...thanks alot Ted. :mad: She accepted the SOS position and has made sure the limelight is the President's.

So what these "others" (more strawmen) on Team Obama are saying is that their boss must be stupid since he chose her? They think they are smarter than him?

This nonsense just has to stop.

You're just not understanding it from the other side because you never experienced it from the other side. From our side of the coin Hillary appeared extremely manipulative and willing to attack from any angle to get what she wants. Some people were just unwilling to let go of that image.

It's like the Hillary supporters who were just unable to let go of the Image of Obama being too inexperienced to answer a phone at 3AM.

You will never convince some people to work together.

That said I think Hillary and Obama have done great things together and I think the contributions of both have made this a good administration thus far.

[VotingHillary]

You're just not understanding it from the other side because you never experienced it from the other side.

No, Tao, you will never understand it. Hillary worked her butt off after she conceded at a length no other losing candidate ever did for the winner. She knew the party was so divided and did all she could to unite it. Obama showed his respect for that by asking her to be SOS. And I do give him credit for that. Kennedy absolutely killed off a second term for Carter with his FU attitude towards him. Kennedy led the most devisive convention with far fewer delegates, but was granted a full roll-call vote. But, Kennedy is such a great Democrat...so great that he helped to get Reagan elected. Yet a woman who went above and beyond is considered "dangerous." This is just sexism to the max. Plain and simple....and I am am SICK of it.

[TheTaoOfBill]

No, Tao, you will never understand it. Hillary worked her butt off after she conceded at a length no other losing candidate ever did for the winner. She knew the party was so divided and did all she could to unite it. Obama showed his respect for that by asking her to be SOS. And I do give him credit for that. Kennedy absolutely killed off a second term for Carter with his FU attitude towards him. Kennedy led the most devisive convention with far fewer delegates, but was granted a full roll-call vote. But, Kennedy is such a great Democrat...so great that he helped to get Reagan elected. Yet a woman who went above and beyond is considered "dangerous." This is just sexism to the max. Plain and simple....and I am am SICK of it.

It's not sexism. It's Clintonism.

[VotingHillary]

It's not sexism. It's Clintonism.

No, it is sexism at its finest...she is a Rodham, she is Clinton only by marriage and by saying it is Clintonism, you have reduced this woman's own political idealogy, her own individuality to that of her husband..that a wife must espouse her husband's views....and that, Tao, is SEXISM.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[TheTaoOfBill]

No, it is sexism at its finest...she is a Rodham, she is Clinton only by marriage and by saying it is Clintonism, you have reduced this woman's own political idealogy, her own individuality to that of her husband..that a wife must espouse her husband's views....and that, Tao, is SEXISM.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

How is it sexist to assume a husband and wife have similar points of view?

[Kaylin]

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/06/obama_aides_still_leery_of_hil.html



I am soooooooooooooooo sick of this. What more does she have to do? She campaigned for him when she could have kicked back her heels after the primary...and did more than any losing candidate I have seen in my lifetime. BTW, Kennedy went home and pouted instead of supporting Carter which helped bring us Reagan...thanks alot Ted. :mad: She accepted the SOS position and has made sure the limelight is the President's.

So what these "others" (more strawmen) on Team Obama are saying is that their boss must be stupid since he chose her? They think they are smarter than him?

This nonsense just has to stop.



I take this to mean it's either accurate or Wolffe is writing whatever the President is telling him--not necessarily Wolffe's book but the President's story of the campaign as told to Wolffe. So I'm not sure whether I believe Obama had decided on Hillary for SOS early. But either way, there's a down side to the story. Everyone is already saying Hill was his best appointment so he makes himself look smart and magnanimous by saying he had her in mind all along. But at the same time I bet John Kerry and Bill Richardson aren't thrilled to hear they never really had a chance...LOL.

As far as the mistrust is concerned, it works both ways. As a Hill supporter I've tried to keep an open mind to the Obama presidency and I think I have, but if he or his staff ever screws her over after all she's done for him, at the end of the day I'm still a Hillary person and I bet it's the same for a lot of her supporters. There were 18 million of us to begin with, so maybe President Obama's paranoid staff members should give some thought to that.

[Horizon]

I take this to mean it's either accurate or Wolffe is writing whatever the President is telling him--not necessarily Wolffe's book but the President's story of the campaign as told to Wolffe. So I'm not sure whether I believe Obama had decided on Hillary for SOS early. But either way, there's a down side to the story. Everyone is already saying Hill was his best appointment so he makes himself look smart and magnanimous by saying he had her in mind all along. But at the same time I bet John Kerry and Bill Richardson aren't thrilled to hear they never really had a chance...LOL.

As far as the mistrust is concerned, it works both ways. As a Hill supporter I've tried to keep an open mind to the Obama presidency and I think I have, but if he or his staff ever screws her over after all she's done for him, at the end of the day I'm still a Hillary person and I bet it's the same for a lot of her supporters. There were 18 million of us to begin with, so maybe President Obama's paranoid staff members should give some thought to that.

hillarystamp!:thumbsup:

[Brooke]

I take this to mean it's either accurate or Wolffe is writing whatever the President is telling him--not necessarily Wolffe's book but the President's story of the campaign as told to Wolffe. So I'm not sure whether I believe Obama had decided on Hillary for SOS early. But either way, there's a down side to the story. Everyone is already saying Hill was his best appointment so he makes himself look smart and magnanimous by saying he had her in mind all along. But at the same time I bet John Kerry and Bill Richardson aren't thrilled to hear they never really had a chance...LOL.

As far as the mistrust is concerned, it works both ways. As a Hill supporter I've tried to keep an open mind to the Obama presidency and I think I have, but if he or his staff ever screws her over after all she's done for him, at the end of the day I'm still a Hillary person and I bet it's the same for a lot of her supporters. There were 18 million of us to begin with, so maybe President Obama's paranoid staff members should give some thought to that.

I'd like to put a hillarystamp! on this as well.

You're just not understanding it from the other side because you never experienced it from the other side.

I know this was directed at VH, but I just want to say ARE YOU FLIPPING KIDDING ME? A good portion of us on this board have been Clinton supporters for nearly two decades and saw this type of thing from the other side for 8 freaking years. We've never seen it from the other side? Honey, we LIVED IT! And whatever intimidation or what not that the Obama folks say came from the Clinton side, that's NOTHING compared to what was thrown at Hillary (and Bill) for years. Years. Has Obama been called a murderer? A rapist? No. Now, I really don't have any anger issues left from the campaign, but a statement like yours, sets me off. Because I can almost guarantee with 100% certainty that if the Obama supporters and "die hards" have had to live with what us Clinton people have dealt with for nearly 2 decades, most of them wouldn't be able to handle it.

You think the 3 AM phone call was bad? Talk to me after Obama gets hit with a huge scandal of some sort and the Republican killing machine starts spending years and millions of dollars to try to bring him down. Then tell me we don't understand it from the other side. Not to mention, it was the Obama supporters who called US racists. I never called any Obama supporter a sexist, but I was called a racist to my face, more than once. I'm not bitter about it like I was anymore, but let's just put that out there.

That's bullcrap. And anybody who can say that to a bunch of Clinton supporters, really, has stuck his foot in his mouth.

[devildog]

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/foot%20in%20mouth.gif

[TheTaoOfBill]

Has Obama been called a murderer? A rapist? No.

Murderer? Yes. Obama was accused of murdering Donald Young by a large group of people who believed Larry Sinclair. Rape? No. But he was accused of having homosexual relations with Larry Sinclair while married.

[Brooke]

Murderer? Yes. Obama was accused of murdering Donald Young by a large group of people who believed Larry Sinclair. Rape? No. But he was accused of having homosexual relations with Larry Sinclair while married.

And that's comparable to raping someone? How?

[TheTaoOfBill]

And that's comparable to raping someone? How?

I'm kinda confused. When Was Hillary accused of Raping someone?

[Brooke]

I'm kinda confused. When Was Hillary accused of Raping someone?

Hillary wasn't. Her husband was. But Hillary was accused of having an affair with Vince Foster and having him murdered.

But you wouldn't know about that, it was before your time.

I stood outside the White House on January 19, 2001, in the cold rain as a group of right wing protesters yelled "Check the silverware, check the china. Hey hey, whaddya say, how many women have you raped today?" over and over. Bill Clinton was leaving office, finally, and a group of right wing nutjobs had nothing better to do on a Friday night. I had only gone down there to say my last goodbye. So I've put up with a lot of crap.

(Btw, that was the only time I ever opened my mouth and got into it with them. I had just come back from Israel, I had a bad cold and I was tired of their shit so I went and got in their face and started yelling "HE'S LEAVING OFFICE TOMORROW, WILL YOU PEOPLE SHUT THE F***K UP?" Wasn't my best moment but it was kinda badass..lol)

[TheTaoOfBill]

Hillary wasn't. Her husband was. But Hillary was accused of having an affair with Vince Foster and having him murdered.

But you wouldn't know about that, it was before your time.

I stood outside the White House on January 19, 2001, in the cold rain as a group of right wing protesters yelled "Check the silverware, check the china. Hey hey, whaddya say, how many women have you raped today?" over and over. Bill Clinton was leaving office, finally, and a group of right wing nutjobs had nothing better to do on a Friday night. I had only gone down there to say my last goodbye. So I've put up with a lot of crap.

(Btw, that was the only time I ever opened my mouth and got into it with them. I had just come back from Israel, I had a bad cold and I was tired of their shit so I went and got in their face and started yelling "HE'S LEAVING OFFICE TOMORROW, WILL YOU PEOPLE SHUT THE F***K UP?" Wasn't my best moment but it was kinda badass..lol)

I'm only talking about what happened in the primaries. I wasn't politically aware during Bill Clinton's time. And I don't think what happened to Bill should be counted as mistreatment of Hillary. (though I'm sure she was affected).

I actually do think Bill went through worse shit than Obama. But Hillary? I think it was fairly even. There were certainly a LOT of crazy attacks on Obama though.

[Ikasu]

The Obama people ran a sleazy campaign, got 100% support from the DNC, and received unthinking adulation from the press. What the f*** are they complaining about? Clinton ran a reasonable campaign (imo she held back). Their problem is that their hero was criticized and they couldn't stand to see it. Kind of like if someone badmouths your crush or gf/bf in high school, you get very upset and irrational. That's how these Obama lackeys feel about their messiah.

[Brooke]

I'm only talking about what happened in the primaries. I wasn't politically aware during Bill Clinton's time. And I don't think what happened to Bill should be counted as mistreatment of Hillary. (though I'm sure she was affected).

I actually do think Bill went through worse shit than Obama. But Hillary? I think it was fairly even. There were certainly a LOT of crazy attacks on Obama though.

I know that. But the thing is, it's hard for us Clinton supporters (at least me) to separate the two at times. So when I read "You haven't seen it from the other side" I interpret that as an ignorant statement.

Hillary may have had it a bit easier at times during the campaign, but not by the media. I do think she was treated worse by the MSM than by the Obama people themselves. That itself wasn't fair, and I really don't see how any Obama supporter can even argue that it was. Am I still upset over it? Not really. I don't go out of my way to watch Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, or whoever else though. But I watch MSNBC in the mornings, I've come around with Andrea Mitchell (even though she was very nasty towards Hillary), and CNN.

But I argued with a lot of people last year that I don't know if many Obama supporters would be so supportive if they dealt with the same types of battles the Clintonites dealt with. It's hardened us, made us stronger. It's emotionally exhausting to be a Clintonite. But it's also the most rewarding experience of my entire life. I realized that during the 8 weeks of the PA primary last year. But it hasn't been easy. It's been pretty easy in comparison for the Obama-ites. So far anyway. I'll get a status check in 17 years to find out.

Kind of like if someone badmouths your crush or gf/bf in high school, you get very upset and irrational.

I'll plead guilty on that one. I wasn't a very rational person back in the 90's..lol.

[Folamix]

I take this to mean it's either accurate or Wolffe is writing whatever the President is telling him--not necessarily Wolffe's book but the President's story of the campaign as told to Wolffe. So I'm not sure whether I believe Obama had decided on Hillary for SOS early. But either way, there's a down side to the story. Everyone is already saying Hill was his best appointment so he makes himself look smart and magnanimous by saying he had her in mind all along. But at the same time I bet John Kerry and Bill Richardson aren't thrilled to hear they never really had a chance...LOL.

As far as the mistrust is concerned, it works both ways. As a Hill supporter I've tried to keep an open mind to the Obama presidency and I think I have, but if he or his staff ever screws her over after all she's done for him, at the end of the day I'm still a Hillary person and I bet it's the same for a lot of her supporters. There were 18 million of us to begin with, so maybe President Obama's paranoid staff members should give some thought to that.


another Hillary STAMP!!

[Brooke]

I forgot to add the old "Hillary is a lesbian" mantra to the list. That one's been around for quite some time too. Funny stuff. Some even accused her of having an affair with Huma.

[CGP]

Well, from that quote, looks as though Obama has more faith in Hillary than some of his aides. And ultimately what matters is what he thinks, not the sidekicks. He rightly is comfortable with her in a position of power.

[CGP]

I forgot to add the old "Hillary is a lesbian" mantra to the list. That one's been around for quite some time too. Funny stuff. Some even accused her of having an affair with Huma.

Yes, Hillary and the personal assistant! :rolleyes:

Doesn't Obama have a male PA?! I guess they will be accused of being "on" at some point as well I guess...Only fair!

[Spang]

Doesn't Obama have a male PA?! I guess they will be accused of being "on" at some point as well I guess...Only fair!

Obama has already been accused of being a "homosexual".

[CGP]

Obama has already been accused of being a "homosexual".

Yes, that's an old story. But not with the PA!

[Spang]

Yes, that's an old story. But not with the PA!

Give it time.

[musgrrl]

I don't understand what Hillary said during the campaign that wasn't considered anything but political competiveness. She never attacked Obama on anything other than his politics and his lack experience.

Also, I've never heard Obama himself ever attack Hillary on personal issues. Now his wife did. She mentioned that Hillary couldn't run the White house because she didn't know what was going on in her house (referring to Bill's infidelity). I thought that was a low blow, but Obama never said it.

Obama diminished Hillary's experience as a first lady by referring to it as tea parties, but at least he wasn't attacking her about her marriage or her parenting or other personal stuff. Hillary also attacked Obama on his inexperience. It's what they do in politics and as far as I'm concerned, I haven't heard anything that has come out of their mouths that attacked each other personally.

However there were people close to the campaigns that said horrible things about the candidates. But do you hold the candidate responsible for someone opening their mouth, especially if they got rid of them?

Tao, I just don't understand your point. Hillary and Obama are equal as far as I'm concerned. They were in a race and had to fight. I don't blame them for anything that they said. Too bad that people surrounding their campaigns couldn't keep it professional.

[TheTaoOfBill]

I don't understand what Hillary said during the campaign that wasn't considered anything but political competiveness. She never attacked Obama on anything other than his politics and his lack experience.

Also, I've never heard Obama himself ever attack Hillary on personal issues. Now his wife did. She mentioned that Hillary couldn't run the White house because she didn't know what was going on in her house (referring to Bill's infidelity). I thought that was a low blow, but Obama never said it.

Obama diminished Hillary's experience as a first lady by referring to it as tea parties, but at least he wasn't attacking her about her marriage or her parenting or other personal stuff. Hillary also attacked Obama on his inexperience. It's what they do in politics and as far as I'm concerned, I haven't heard anything that has come out of their mouths that attacked each other personally.

However there were people close to the campaigns that said horrible things about the candidates. But do you hold the candidate responsible for someone opening their mouth, especially if they got rid of them?

Tao, I just don't understand your point. Hillary and Obama are equal as far as I'm concerned. They were in a race and had to fight. I don't blame them for anything that they said. Too bad that people surrounding their campaigns couldn't keep it professional.

To me most of the worst came from Hillary's supporters and surrogates. But there was one comment which in my opinion "broke the rules" and "the spirit" of the primaries and that was when she essentially said McCain has more to bring to the table than Obama. I blame that single quote for the entire creation of PUMA.

I know she probably meant more as a "You want to pick someone who can compete with the republicans" but it was very poorly worded and I know plenty of Hillary supporters who took it as a signal to not support Obama in the GE.

[Kaylin]

To me most of the worst came from Hillary's supporters and surrogates. But there was one comment which in my opinion "broke the rules" and "the spirit" of the primaries and that was when she essentially said McCain has more to bring to the table than Obama. I blame that single quote for the entire creation of PUMA.


If that quote was to blame for the creation of PUMA, then it would have followed that PUMA would have gone pffft when Hillary endorsed Obama. PUMAs may have agreed with Hillary's assessment of Obama's experience, but they didn't follow her into the voting booth. It's also important to remember that PUMA is a diverse group, many of whom did not vote for McCain. One of the most admirable qualities of PUMA has been the respect for one another's voting decisions.

PUMAs have issues with the Democratic Party primary and nominating process that extend beyond Hillary's presidential candidacy. I'd be curious to know if the President thinks any "individual/s" responsible for the emergence of the PUMA movement. I personally think PUMAs are too diverse to pinpoint any one person, but Howard Dean, Donna Brazile, and their clumsy handling of the rules meeting last May probably played a significant role. While Hillary has gone on to become Obama's much acclaimed choice as SOS, neither Dean nor Brazile has been let anywhere near the WH, let alone its inner circle.

[Brooke]

To me most of the worst came from Hillary's supporters and surrogates. But there was one comment which in my opinion "broke the rules" and "the spirit" of the primaries and that was when she essentially said McCain has more to bring to the table than Obama.

Maybe that shouldn't have been said, but was she being dishonest? No. She said she brought a "world of experience" and so did McCain. She was only referencing the amount of political experience each had and that Obama didn't. She maybe shouldn't have brought it up but she didn't say anything in that statement that was untrue.

I mean, people get on politicians for not being honest. When they are, people still don't like it. Guess what? Tough noogies, folks. If you can't handle it when a politician is being honest, then you're in the wrong business.

No, Obama never attacked Hillary personally, but he did dredge up a statement she made 16 years earlier to go after her in the Philadelphia debate. When he brought up the "baking cookies and having teas" comment in April. I remember watching that at a bar/restaurant with Hillary people and I started banging my head on the table. And I'll never forget the look on Hillary's face when he said that. She was all "WTF??" LOL.

[mack20]

To me most of the worst came from Hillary's supporters and surrogates. But there was one comment which in my opinion "broke the rules" and "the spirit" of the primaries and that was when she essentially said McCain has more to bring to the table than Obama. I blame that single quote for the entire creation of PUMA.

I know she probably meant more as a "You want to pick someone who can compete with the republicans" but it was very poorly worded and I know plenty of Hillary supporters who took it as a signal to not support Obama in the GE.

I don't have a problem with Hillary having said that. That's politics and I don't think her comment was meant in any kind of sincerely derogatory way. Both candidates said things that the other side was probably offended by, but I personally don't feel that any of their comments were overly out of line. I mean, the attacks that came Obama's way during the general election (and the ones that undoubtably would have come Hillary's way had she been the Democratic nominee), THOSE were the attacks that I felt were out of line.

[TheTaoOfBill]

I don't have a problem with Hillary having said that. That's politics and I don't think her comment was meant in any kind of sincerely derogatory way. Both candidates said things that the other side was probably offended by, but I personally don't feel that any of their comments were overly out of line. I mean, the attacks that came Obama's way during the general election (and the ones that undoubtably would have come Hillary's way had she been the Democratic nominee), THOSE were the attacks that I felt were out of line.

At this time as of now I don't think it was meant in any way other than "You want the guy (or gal) who can go up against a guy with a lifetime of experience"

However at that time it seemed to me and many other Obama supporters that Hillary was intentionally trying to sabotage Obama in the general election. And when you paint that kind of image you really can't blame certain people for being extremely suspect of you.

The statement should have either been worded better or just avoided all together. Because it wasn't just Obama supporters who took it that way. In my many arguments with PUMA members that quote was cited most often as evidence that although publicly Hillary was "forced" to support Obama, privately she wanted her supporters to do everything they can to keep him out of office.

I'm not saying I agree with the image painted by these aides. I'm just saying I see where they are coming from.