(06/02/09) "No-Choice: 87% Of U.S. Counties Have No Access To Abortion Clinic (VIDEO)" (The Huffington Post in association with MSNBC)

[Spang]

There are three states in the country that have only one abortion clinic, Rachel Maddow reported on MSNBC last night. Others heavily restrict abortion, ban abortions in clinics or any facility that receives public funds, or ban abortion counseling or clinic recommendations. The effect, she explained, is that in 87% of all U.S. counties it is not possible to get an abortion. "Why bother making it illegal if you can just make it impossible to get?"

The Source w/ Video (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/02/no-choice-87-of-us-counti_n_210194.html)

[Horizon]

We only ever had one Dr in my county that did abortions. His clinic was bombed in the 90's and he quit his practice altogether. He was also an MD, with a thriving practice.
Now, you have to drive to either Eugene, or Portland. For many years, it was Portland, as there was no one in Eugene either.
I took a friend to the Love Clinic in Portland once. We were instructed to bring paper bags to wear over our heads, as the M.O. of Right to Life at the time was to take pics as you were entering the clinic, and then post your picture all over the net, and on flyers with a tag that said " Baby Killer". They then resorted to egging those with the bags on their heads in order to get a response. With a bag on your head, you cant see where it came from. There was little police presence when we were their and the RTL people were basically running amok. We had to leave by the secret back entrance they had into a car, that then took is in a roundabout way to where we had been instructed to park, several blocks from the clinic.
It may be legal to obtain, but you play hell getting one.

[Tybee]

In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.


http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html


Doesn't seem to be a problem for millions.

[agatha]

You know, it would be interesting to see an overlay of the locations and the demographics of the area. I honestly couldn't begin to tell you where to find one in my area.

[mavfin]

<shrug> Supply and demand. Abortion is an elective procedure, so if you have to drive a few hours for one, that's not that big a problem. Any hospital can do it if it's an emergency health-of-the-mother issue.

[Suzan]

<shrug> Supply and demand. Abortion is an elective procedure, so if you have to drive a few hours for one, that's not that big a problem. Any hospital can do it if it's an emergency health-of-the-mother issue.
First, I had no idea that access to abortion was so limited.

Mavfin, for people with money and transportation it isn't any big deal, but that isn't the case for the majority of those seeking help. Teenage girls/couples in a predicament might not be old enough to drive. Not everyone can afford a car and gas prices are going up again. Here in socal they're verging on $3 gal. Also, the farther you drive the more likely you'll need somewhere to recover after the procedure or have to stay overnight. This puts it beyond the reach of many.

[Suzan]

In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million in 2000. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million legal abortions occurred.


http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html


Doesn't seem to be a problem for millions.
I don't have the stats, but the number of unwed pregnancies were supposed to have gone up during the Bush abstinence-only years. If that's the case, I'm surprised the number of abortions didn't go up as well.

[Brooke]

I used to have a friend years ago who had 2 of them, but I have no idea where she went. My brother's g/f had one last year (that we only found out about recently), he paid for it, they hid it from all of us for a while. I have no idea how much it cost or where they went.

(To those who heard me talk about this girl, it's the same girl I mentioned). And it was probably for the best, but it definitely threw me for a loop when I found out.

[mavfin]

First, I had no idea that access to abortion was so limited.

Mavfin, for people with money and transportation it isn't any big deal, but that isn't the case for the majority of those seeking help. Teenage girls/couples in a predicament might not be old enough to drive. Not everyone can afford a car and gas prices are going up again. Here in socal they're verging on $3 gal. Also, the farther you drive the more likely you'll need somewhere to recover after the procedure or have to stay overnight. This puts it beyond the reach of many.

Are you saying we should spend even more tax money to set up abortion clinics within some minimum distance of everywhere? I don't. It's an *elective procedure*, not emergency. If it's important enough, people find a way to get there, and the money to get it done. And don't tell me it's too expensive. It's a helluva lot cheaper than having the child, I know that.

[Spang]

Are you saying we should spend even more tax money to set up abortion clinics within some minimum distance of everywhere? I don't. It's an *elective procedure*, not emergency. If it's important enough, people find a way to get there, and the money to get it done. And don't tell me it's too expensive. It's a helluva lot cheaper than having the child, I know that.

Did you watch the video?

[Lealy]

I have 2 within a 15 min drive and 6 more within a 2 hour drive. No shortage here.

Teen pg rates have decreased except for 2 years 06 & 07 and this year it seems to be trending up. You must also take into account illegal immigrants where one of the increases occur in the Southwest. But there has never been an abstinence only even while Bush was in office Abstinence is always taught separate or with regular sex ed (in public schools) including in the study that was done. Abstinence only was taught here in the 7th grade, they start sex ed in the 5th grade and continue each year into high school.

[mavfin]

Did you watch the video?

Yes, I did.

[Spang]

Yes, I did.

So, you're aware that there are 3 states in this country with only 1 abortion clinic?

[mavfin]

So, you're aware that there are 3 states in this country with only 1 abortion clinic?

Yes. I covered that in a previous post. It's not an emergency procedure if they're going to the abortion clinic, rather than the hospital, so it doesn't matter if they have to drive a few hours. Obviously, in an emergency health-of-the-mother situation, any hospital can do what needs to be done. I had to drive two hours each time to get adenoids removed on three of my children, so I don't think it's a big deal.

[Spang]

Yes. I covered that in a previous post. It's not an emergency procedure if they're going to the abortion clinic, rather than the hospital, so it doesn't matter if they have to drive a few hours. Obviously, in an emergency health-of-the-mother situation, any hospital can do what needs to be done. I had to drive two hours each time to get adenoids removed on three of my children, so I don't think it's a big deal.

I'd hate to be a poor woman in one of those states and get raped by a man who didn't wear protection. And now I want an abortion since I can't even afford to support myself, let alone another human being. And the only way I can get there is in a vehicle I don't have or a bus ticket I can't afford. That would just suck. But I guess them's the breaks.

[mavfin]

I'd hate to be a poor woman in one of those states and get raped by a man who didn't wear protection. And now I want an abortion since I can't even afford to support myself, let alone another human being. And the only way I can get there is in a vehicle I don't have or a bus ticket I can't afford. That would just suck. But I guess them's the breaks.

You and I both know that there is help/funds available from private organizations for this kind of situation, and it doesn't require our tax dollars to put an abortion clinic every so many miles apart to solve this.

[Spang]

You and I both know that there is help/funds available from private organizations for this kind of situation, and it doesn't require our tax dollars to put an abortion clinic every so many miles apart to solve this.

That's just one scenario. Probably the most extreme, but still.

[Tybee]

I'd hate to be a poor woman in one of those states and get raped by a man who didn't wear protection. And now I want an abortion since I can't even afford to support myself, let alone another human being. And the only way I can get there is in a vehicle I don't have or a bus ticket I can't afford. That would just suck. But I guess them's the breaks.


Chances are we're already supporting the 'woman'. We're already paying for many abortions. Let's just put abortion clinics in every school... Get real and some common sense Spang.

[Spang]

Let's just put abortion clinics in every school...

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

[Suzan]

Are you saying we should spend even more tax money to set up abortion clinics within some minimum distance of everywhere? I don't. It's an *elective procedure*, not emergency. If it's important enough, people find a way to get there, and the money to get it done. And don't tell me it's too expensive. It's a helluva lot cheaper than having the child, I know that.

No, that's what you read into my statement in order counter it. IIRC, that's another version of the straw man argument. Caught ya! ;)

I'm just stunned at how little access there is and I don't agree that it's not a big problem. If it's YOUR problem it's a very big problem, especially if you're hours from a clinic, have no way to get there and can't confide in the people close to you.

[Suzan]

That's just one scenario. Probably the most extreme, but still.

Not so extreme and not so rare, actually.

In the U.S. a woman is raped every six minutes.

[CGP]

I watched Rachel Maddow's presentation last night about abortion in America. It was very interesting. It was the first time I have really sat down and watched her show. I have grown bored with CNN (too lame) and I am back to loathing Fox. She made a good point that although abortion is not illegal, in reality it almost seems as though it is illegal given how extremely difficult it is for many women to access abortion services - especially those who don't live in large metro cities.

[Spang]

Not so extreme and not so rare, actually.

In the U.S. a woman is raped every six minutes.

Thank you.

[Suzan]

But there has never been an abstinence only even while Bush was in office Abstinence is always taught separate or with regular sex ed (in public schools) including in the study that was done. Abstinence only was taught here in the 7th grade, they start sex ed in the 5th grade and continue each year into high school.

Lealy, I was talking about sex-ed. Under Bush the government would fund only abstinence-only sex-ed programs in classes. Several states opted out of the funding because while the abstinence-only programs were in effect the rate of teen pregnancies and STDs were on the rise.

There's lots of documentation on this.

[Suzan]

Thank you.
You're welcome.

I wish it wasn't true.

[Spang]

You're welcome.

I wish it wasn't true.

I knew rape wasn't rare but I thought my scenario might be.

[Suzan]

I knew rape wasn't rare but I thought my scenario might be.
Yes, I was only saying that given the incidence of reported rapes, your scenario might not be so extreme a case.

[mavfin]

No, that's what you read into my statement in order counter it. IIRC, that's another version of the straw man argument. Caught ya! ;)

I'm just stunned at how little access there is and I don't agree that it's not a big problem. If it's YOUR problem it's a very big problem, especially if you're hours from a clinic, have no way to get there and can't confide in the people close to you.


Sorry if that seemed a strawman. What would be your proposed solution? I was just generally saying that I didn't think it an issue that required tax dollars to solve. i.e. government didn't need to poke its nose into it anymore than it already has.

[Spang]

What would be your proposed solution?

Non-profit organizations raising funds with help from famous people might work. Of course, it would have to be low-key. If the wrong people find out about it, innocent people could get killed, construction and/or fund raising sights could be bombed or set ablaze. All kinds of horrible situations could ensue. It'd be very dangerous. I feel like I'm living in a Third World country sometimes.

[Lealy]

Lealy, I was talking about sex-ed. Under Bush the government would fund only abstinence-only sex-ed programs in classes. Several states opted out of the funding because while the abstinence-only programs were in effect the rate of teen pregnancies and STDs were on the rise.

There's lots of documentation on this.

Even in Bush's abstinence only sex-ed programs they took the regular courses of sex-ed with abstinence only as a supplement. I have looked this up there was no school that did strictly abstinence only without regular sex-ed. There is no way they would have gotten this through. My daughter had abstinence only course though our public school it was taught through a friend of mine who received federal grants. You may be able to point to specific programs where teen pg went up where this program was taught but it would not have been because they did not receive normal sex-ed. From what I understand it was more because the girls less likely to be ready because they believed they were not going to have sex. Personally I encourage don't do it, it's not worth it wait til your out of your teens at least but if you should think about it you better tell me so we can make sure there are no repercussions.

[Suzan]

Even in Bush's abstinence only sex-ed programs they took the regular courses of sex-ed with abstinence only as a supplement. I have looked this up there was no school that did strictly abstinence only without regular sex-ed. There is no way they would have gotten this through. My daughter had abstinence only course though our public school it was taught through a friend of mine who received federal grants. You may be able to point to specific programs where teen pg went up where this program was taught but it would not have been because they did not receive normal sex-ed. From what I understand it was more because the girls less likely to be ready because they believed they were not going to have sex. Personally I encourage don't do it, it's not worth it wait til your out of your teens at least but if you should think about it you better tell me so we can make sure there are no repercussions.
Sorry if I was confusing. I didn't mean to say that schools may not have offered more than abstinence-only sex-ed, just that if federal money was involved, the use of it was limited to abstinence-only. I don't know how local government money was affected, but perhaps if schools financed their own classes through other programs, they could have more latitude in terms of what they taught.

[Suzan]

Sorry if that seemed a strawman. What would be your proposed solution? I was just generally saying that I didn't think it an issue that required tax dollars to solve. i.e. government didn't need to poke its nose into it anymore than it already has.
The question of access could be easily resolved if more doctors felt free to perform legal abortions without all the threats and stigmatizing. The real problem is access for poor women and no, I wouldn't want more tax money going to that, although to be honest, I don't know what percentage of our tax dollar goes to that now.

Of course, the poor who are already on Medicaid would be covered. And I'm sure there are private groups and programs that would assist, but the real problem isn't financing, it's access. The doctors and clinics aren't there.

[devildog]

Are you saying we should spend even more tax money to set up abortion clinics within some minimum distance of everywhere? I don't. It's an *elective procedure*, not emergency. If it's important enough, people find a way to get there, and the money to get it done. And don't tell me it's too expensive. It's a helluva lot cheaper than having the child, I know that.

I agree. Good post. There is also the option of using the morning after pill (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morning-after-pill/AN00592) instead of getting an actual abortion, which I've heard is quite painful.

[NativeSun]

First, I had no idea that access to abortion was so limited.

Mavfin, for people with money and transportation it isn't any big deal, but that isn't the case for the majority of those seeking help. Teenage girls/couples in a predicament might not be old enough to drive. Not everyone can afford a car and gas prices are going up again. Here in socal they're verging on $3 gal. Also, the farther you drive the more likely you'll need somewhere to recover after the procedure or have to stay overnight. This puts it beyond the reach of many.

Understandably so. But are states and local jurisdictions suppose to start popping up abortion clinics just to accomodate this circumstance? I think more walk-in clinics are needed for the general public than abortion clinics. If you've only got so much tax-payer money, you have to prioritize.