(06-19-09)"U.S. Fortifies Hawaii to Meet Threat From Korea " (Wall Street Journal)

[Wyoming Dem]

I guess that means it is more than a rumor. And look what we have as a POTUS...Serious stuff and whatever anyone says...Obama is not equipped to handle this kind of threat and has NO EXPERIENCE...and that is undeniable.

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. is moving ground-to-air missile defenses to Hawaii as tensions escalate between Washington and Pyongyang over North Korea's recent moves to restart its nuclear-weapon program and resume test-firing long-range missiles.

View Full Image

Associated Press

In anticipation of a North Korean missile test, the U.S. is positioning off Hawaii a floating radar, like this one shown in a 2005 Boeing photo.
.Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Thursday that the U.S. is concerned that Pyongyang might soon fire a missile toward Hawaii. Some senior U.S. officials expect a North Korean test by midsummer, even though most don't believe the missile would be capable of crossing the Pacific and reaching Hawaii.

Mr. Gates told reporters that the U.S. is positioning a sophisticated floating radar array in the ocean around Hawaii to track an incoming missile. The U.S. is also deploying missile-defense weapons to Hawaii that would theoretically be capable of shooting down a North Korean missile, should such an order be given, he said.

"We do have some concerns if they were to launch a missile...in the direction of Hawaii," Mr. Gates said. "We are in a good position, should it become necessary, to protect American territory."

In another sign of America's mounting concern about North Korea, a senior defense official said the U.S. is tracking a North Korean vessel, the Kang Nam, suspected of carrying weapons banned by a recent United Nations resolution.


SOURCE (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124535285705228571.html)

[Spang]

I guess that means it is more than a rumor. And look what we have as a POTUS...Serious stuff and whatever anyone says...Obama is not equipped to handle this kind of threat and has NO EXPERIENCE...and that is undeniable.

In relation to this situation, what is Obama doing wrong or not doing that he should be doing?

[Wyoming Dem]

In relation to this situation, what is Obama doing wrong or not doing that he should be doing?
He has CONSISTENTLY apologized and in every damn foreign policy speech he has made has given the impression to everyone that the US "sorry" and we are no longer willing to combat viable threats. He has used "kiss ass" diplomacy and I gotta say, so far, it appears to be NOT working. What can he do? How about "grow a pair" and at least leave open the possibility that the US will not tolerate threats of any kind? He has NOT done that and has been so damn sure that all he has to do is open his mouth and make yet another damn speech and the sea's shall part and all of our enemies, once they hear him speak will decide that everything is okay and now we can all be friends. Give me a break...diplomacy WILL NOT WORK when one party is out of their ever-lovin mind (and the others are on a religeous quest to rid the world of Jews and Infidels.) Obama is stupidly, arrogantly, unapolgetically and hopelessy naive. And just as an aside, since he decided to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, and we are NOT out of Iraq, where in the hell are we going to find more troops? Although if North Korea uses a nuke, what does it matter? I am sorry but I feel not even one shred of safety with this amatuer in charge of my protection and, IMO, nobody else should be feeling very damn safe either.

[Spang]

He has CONSISTENTLY ...

I know you hate Obama but Jesus Jones. In relation to this one specific situation, the situation with North Korea, what is Obama doing wrong or what is he not doing that he should be doing? According to the article ground-to-air missile defenses are being moved to Hawaii, among other precautionary measures. What's wrong with that?

[Alces95]

He has CONSISTENTLY apologized and in every damn foreign policy speech he has made has given the impression to everyone that the US "sorry" and we are no longer willing to combat viable threats. He has used "kiss ass" diplomacy and I gotta say, so far, it appears to be NOT working. What can he do? How about "grow a pair" and at least leave open the possibility that the US will not tolerate threats of any kind? He has NOT done that and has been so damn sure that all he has to do is open his mouth and make yet another damn speech and the sea's shall part and all of our enemies, once they hear him speak will decide that everything is okay and now we can all be friends. Give me a break...diplomacy WILL NOT WORK when one party is out of their ever-lovin mind (and the others are on a religeous quest to rid the world of Jews and Infidels.) Obama is stupidly, arrogantly, unapolgetically and hopelessy naive. And just as an aside, since he decided to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, and we are NOT out of Iraq, where in the hell are we going to find more troops? Although if North Korea uses a nuke, what does it matter? I am sorry but I feel not even one shred of safety with this amatuer in charge of my protection and, IMO, nobody else should be feeling very damn safe either.

Good points. I hope he preemptive strikes both North Korea Iran. Diplomacy does not work (see your post above) so we should go open two more war fronts. Even better, he could "grow a pair" (is this harder for women to do?) and just nuke the whole place into glass! Hoorah!

Preemptive strike has worked so well in the past, I hope he stops talking and starts blowing shit up! Thats the America that I'll feel safe in.

I hate to be so sarcastic to you but I simply can't believe your post. What is happening in the Middle East is what we want to happen. People are rising up on their own. Its how we became a country and I hope the best for them as well.

Murray - if this is out of line, just delete this and I'll back off for a while.

[Spang]

America! <CENSORED> yeah!

[Wyoming Dem]

It is the message he has sent to both our enemies and our allies that we are now "The Apologists" and don't tell me that our enemies don't see that as weakness...George Bush was an idiotic moron but, by God, I do believe our enemies were never too anxious to piss him and old Blood and Guts Cheney off and regardless of my views, the Troops applauded that stance by Bush and Cheney. Have your read any of the reports about the troops and the commanding officers and there views on Obama and his "kiss Ass Diplomacy"? They are appalled...they lay their lives on the line and now they have to do it for an inexperienced, narcissistic dumb ass who hasn't a clue. And I would feel a lot better if Obama chose good people and listened to them but he doesn't...it's all Obama all the time and he really thinks his "opinion" counts more than anyone else's. I still say, using our favorite word from the last two years here on the forum, we are "SCREWN". I do not, nor will I ever trust this GUY to do anything right or to protect me and my family and country. He is incapable. And when it's all over, and he is "sorry", what then? Sorry does not protect us.

I had to add this..Do you REALLY trust this GUY to protect you, your family and your country? A guy with NO EXPERIENCE, a GUY who weighs every single thought, nuance, word, gesture, facial expression by the yardstick of what's in in for him, how does it make him look, how it will it effect his legacy, can it hurt his polling position and how can he make himself look better? Because that's exactly how Obama operates...That is the "essence" of who Obama is. Obama cares about Obama first, last and always and I don't think I, or my family or my country should have to come second to anything and especially come second to anything this GUY decides or decrees (and the noise coming out of the executive office is sounding more like decrees every day...as he is busy stuffing his healthcare down the collective gullets of the American public.) Obama has garnered NO respect from our enemies and there will be a piper to pay eventually.

[sojourner]

Good points. I hope he preemptive strikes both North Korea Iran. Diplomacy does not work (see your post above) so we should go open two more war fronts. Even better, he could "grow a pair" (is this harder for women to do?) and just nuke the whole place into glass! Hoorah!

Preemptive strike has worked so well in the past, I hope he stops talking and starts blowing shit up! Thats the America that I'll feel safe in.

I hate to be so sarcastic to you but I simply can't believe your post. What is happening in the Middle East is what we want to happen. People are rising up on their own. Its how we became a country and I hope the best for them as well.

Murray - if this is out of line, just delete this and I'll back off for a while.

I don’t think your post was any farther out of line than many other posts from both sides of the fence. It may have been therapeutic but I doubt it was very production.

Like proving a negative, it is hard to ascertain how well preemptive strikes work. Kosovo, and the six day war were preemptive strikes – you be the judge.

One function of diplomacy is to set boundaries and make sure other countries understand what they are. I don’t think Obama has done a very good job of that, so I expect countries like N. Korea to test Obama/America to see what those boundaries are.

[NoFear]

WyoD, you're totally contradicting yourself.

You said it yourself that Obama is sending 30,000 troops into Afghanistan. I don't understand the logic behind calling him a pansy and also condemning him for trying to do something about the terrorists that actually did something to us.

Doesn't this show that he is willing to put some action behind his words?

[Wyoming Dem]

WyoD, you're totally contradicting yourself.

You said it yourself that Obama is sending 30,000 troops into Afghanistan. I don't understand the logic behind calling him a pansy and also condemning him for trying to do something about the terrorists that actually did something to us.

Doesn't this show that he is willing to put some action behind his words?
Do you think Obama sent them there because he really cares? He has to make himself look like he's doing something (And now apparently, getting "Osama" is no longer a priority) But I will give you that...Obama does nothing or does something only because he cares how it effects his image. I have no problem with the 30,000 troops in Afghanistan (I always thought his followers might but apparently not.) but data shows it's not working out very well. And I actually applaud him not pulling troops out of Iraq "willy nilly" which he wanted to do. I just don't think Obama kissing everyone's ass is any kind of National Foreign Policy. And the apologizing REALLY fries my ass. Bottom line, deep down, way inside, I don't trust THIS GUY one iota...not one and how anyone as inexperienced as he is can be expected to keep this country safe defies logic. Just does. No arguement to it. Kim Jon II meets the clinical assessment of "leagally insane" and it is impossible to have a rational "conversation" with a full-blown whack-O-rooney-O". But enough of his followers have doomed the rest of us to having to live with an astoundingley bizarro choice of a complete and utter incompetant and sadly, there is nothing I can do or say that is going to change that. Unfortunately, you don't have to take a competancy test to be POTUS and the "string" of "winners" this country has elected more than illustrates that fact.

[Wyoming Dem]

Good points. I hope he preemptive strikes both North Korea Iran. Diplomacy does not work (see your post above) so we should go open two more war fronts. Even better, he could "grow a pair" (is this harder for women to do?) and just nuke the whole place into glass! Hoorah!

Preemptive strike has worked so well in the past, I hope he stops talking and starts blowing shit up! Thats the America that I'll feel safe in.

I hate to be so sarcastic to you but I simply can't believe your post. What is happening in the Middle East is what we want to happen. People are rising up on their own. Its how we became a country and I hope the best for them as well.

Murray - if this is out of line, just delete this and I'll back off for a while.
Hey Alces...did not offend me a bit. I see no problem with your post and I am sure you feel as strongly about your position as I do about mine.

[NoFear]

Do you think Obama sent them there because he really cares? He has to make himself look like he's doing something (And now apparently, getting "Osama" is no longer a priority) But I will give you that...Obama does nothing or does something only because he cares how it effects his image. I have no problem with the 30,000 troops in Afghanistan (I always thought his followers might but apparently not.) And I actually applaud him not pulling troops out of Iraq "willy nilly" which he wanted to do.

If anything, him not bringing all the troops home is something many of his more left wing supporters disagree with.

I don't see how sending more troops in battle is helping his image. Maybe with the some of conservatives but definitely not with his anti-war base.
I would think that this would make him seem like he's not doing it to make himself look good.

[Wyoming Dem]

If anything, him not bringing all the troops home is something many of his more left wing supporters disagree with.

I don't see how sending more troops in battle is helping his image. Maybe with the some of conservatives but definitely not with his anti-war base.
I would think that this would make him seem like he's not doing it to make himself look good.
And maybe you are right and I am totally wrong but Obama has never done one thing that he did not give consideration to as too how it will affect his image. And doesn't the flip flopping drive his followers nuts? Because the guy who is Prez is not the same guy they voted for as he has flip flopped more times than Jimmy Buffets own.
I also think that once he got your vote, he ceased to care what you thought (figurative "your" and "you".) Apparently he has little fear that his followers will turn their backs on him because so far, nothing has dimmed the adoration of the true believers. I still believe that all of the apologist rhetoric and kow-towing to the Muslims and others (and I don't mean having normal talks or meetings or using regular diplomatic tactics) has led Kim Jon II (and probably others) to see this country as vulnerable and very less likely to defend herself. I am in favor "iron fist in the velvet glove" and "The Art Of The Implied Threat".

[TheTaoOfBill]

I guess that means it is more than a rumor. And look what we have as a POTUS...Serious stuff and whatever anyone says...Obama is not equipped to handle this kind of threat and has NO EXPERIENCE...and that is undeniable.



SOURCE (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124535285705228571.html)

Luckily most presidents do not rely on their experience because a lot of presidents do not have any experience in military stradegy or leading an army. They rely on their advisers. Obama knows better than to micromanage the military. He knows we need to beef up defense on the Hawaiian islands so that's what he told the generals and the generals are getting it done.

Obama just tells the military what he wants them to get done. It's the generals who tell the military how to get it done. That's how it works with most presidents. And Hillary would have no more experience with military strategy than Obama. Hillary knows just as well from Bill that strategy is for the generals. Policy is for the president. Even McCain has little experience with military stradegy as most of his military experience is in low level air force pilot work. Not in leading a platoon, much less an entire army.

[NoFear]

And maybe you are right and I am totally wrong but Obama has never done one thing that he did not give consideration to as too how it will affect his image. And doesn't the flip flopping drive his followers nuts? Because the guy who is Prez is not the same guy they voted for as he has flip flopped more times than Jimmy Buffets own.
I also think that once he got your vote, he ceased to care what you thought (figurative "your" and "you".) Apparently he has little fear that his followers will turn their backs on him because so far, nothing has dimmed the adoration of the true believers. I still believe that all of the apologist rhetoric and kow-towing to the Muslims and others (and I don't mean having normal talks or meetings or using regular diplomatic tactics) has led Kim Jon II (and probably others) to see this country as vulnerable and very less likely to defend herself. I am in favor "iron fist in the velvet glove" and "The Art Of The Implied Threat".


Fair enough. You have your opinion.

To me, it seems as though he's trying to govern from the middle which can seem like flip flopping but thats how a good president is supposed to behave. If I had it my way, I wish he wouldn't cater so much to the conservative elements and just straight up ignore most of the noise they throw out.

Examples:

1. With health care, i'd wish he went straight for the single payer option for full universal care rather than going at it partially which is what is going on
2. Stimulus package, if anything was too small
3. He should have pulled out all the troops and brought them all home.

The only thing he didn't try to compromise with was gay marriage and that was a huge disappointment.

[Wyoming Dem]

Luckily most presidents do not rely on their experience because a lot of presidents do not have any experience in military exercises. They rely on their advisors. Obama knows better than to micromanage the military. He knows we need to beef up defense on the Hawaiian islands so that's what he told the generals and the generals are getting it done.

Obama just tells the military what he wants them to get done. It's the generals who tell the military how to do it.
You are a bigger optomist regarding Obama's skills or lack there of than I am apparently.
Personally, I feel that every POTUS should have served in the military as you cannot govern a country and keep her safe without being aware personally, of what that entails. Obama is just the latest in a very long line of incompetent and inefectual leaders. The Presidency has become a "popularity contest" and we citizens have no one to blame but ourselves.

[Wyoming Dem]

The only thing he didn't try to compromise with was gay marriage and that was a huge disappointment.

Double Ditto.

[TheTaoOfBill]

You are a bigger optomist regarding Obama's skills or lack there of than I am apparently.
Personally, I feel that every POTUS should have served in the military as you cannot govern a country and keep her safe without being aware personally, of what that entails. Obama is just the latest in a very long line of incompetent and inefectual leaders. The Presidency has become a "popularity contest" and we citizens have no one to blame but ourselves.

Military experience is definitely a bonus but at the same time you still want a president that will listen to advisers. Because regardless of what military experience you have it's the generals who have the direct line to the soldiers. Not you.

And there have been plenty of successful presidents without military experience.

[Spang]

Personally, I feel that every POTUS should have served in the military as you cannot govern a country and keep her safe without being aware personally, of what that entails.

George W. Bush served in the military and look how swimmingly he did.

[Wyoming Dem]

George W. Bush served in the military and look how swimmingly he did.
You have me there as he was a total "Maroon" but I still think genuine experience in the military is priceless, And the Troops loved George for reasons that escape me. The Troops DID NOT love Clinton or Carter. I think maybe the reasoning is a "Guy who served" won't place us needlessly in harms way, which we know to be fiction but nonetheless, it is the rationale. I really believe that an understanding of combat and chain of command etc. is a very necessary requirement before sending troops into combat. And if a POTUS relies too heavily on his Commanders/Joint Chiefs, etc...how does he know they are "pulling the wool over his eyes" if he has no military background?

Again..."Iron fist in the velvet glove" is for me, the stance we must take.

[Spang]

And the Troops loved George...

I didn't.

[INDY4PUMAS]

I didn't.

You were in the small minority.

[Spang]

You were in the small minority.

I didn't hate him, either. That happened after. I didn't give a <CENSORED> about politics. I was a soldier.

[INDY4PUMAS]

And the Troops loved George for reasons that escape me.

Overall, as commander-in-chief, Bush sent clear signals to the troops and he backed up his words with action. He never quit on the military in Iraq when the media and Democrats wanted to bail. He saw the mission through.

Had Hillary been elected president, she would have had a real uphill struggle winning over the troops. Remember, many troops ignored her when she visited in Iraq a few years ago. She voted for the war and then, during the dark days, said she was fooled by Bush. To the troops, a MAJOR sign of weakness. On military bases, her picture would have been photoshopped, just as Bill's pics were in the '90s.

[Spang]

On military bases, her picture would have been photoshopped, just as Bill's pics were in the '90s.

556th PSB didn't have any photoshopped photographs of Bill Clinton.

[Wyoming Dem]

Overall, as commander-in-chief, Bush sent clear signals to the troops and he backed up his words with action. He never quit on the military in Iraq when the media and Democrats wanted to bail. He saw the mission through.

Had Hillary been elected president, she would have had a real uphill struggle winning over the troops. Remember, many troops ignored her when she visited in Iraq a few years ago. She voted for the war and then, during the dark days, said she was fooled by Bush. To the troops, a MAJOR sign of weakness. On military bases, her picture would have been photoshopped, just as Bill's pics were in the '90s.
And I agree absolutely with that assessment. She gave very mixed signals which came back to bite her in the butt (allthough the constant Obama litany of "I never voted for the war" went unchallenged and everyone failed to point out he was not in office to vote for the war but nonetheless voted for every funding bill and troop increase, right along with Clinton and all the others.) And I also agree tht Bush knew how to relate to the Troops in a way that anyone who had never served would be hard pressed to emulate (even 'tho Bush's "service" was ephemeral...) My Brother, who is a photo journalist and travels all over wherever there is shooting says the Troops have zero respect for Obama, justified or not.

[INDY4PUMAS]

556th PSB didn't have any photoshopped photographs of Bill Clinton.

That was probably a good thing.

[VotingHillary]

The U.S. is also deploying missile-defense weapons to Hawaii that would theoretically :surprise: be capable of shooting down a North Korean missile

Am I the only one that caught that word? Hawaii is being protected "theoretically"? OMG, I am so worried for Hawaii.

[Ikasu]

Am I the only one that caught that word? Hawaii is being protected "theoretically"? OMG, I am so worried for Hawaii.

Autonomous missile defense is not a perfect technology.

[Spang]

Am I the only one that caught that word? Hawaii is being protected "theoretically"? OMG, I am so worried for Hawaii.

Perhaps the author of the article isn't very confident in our military.

[VotingHillary]

Perhaps the author of the article isn't very confident in our military.

It is not the military being questioned, but the device itself is in question.

[sojourner]

WASHINGTON (AP) — A new anti-missile system ordered for Hawaii is partly a strategy to deter North Korea from test-firing a long-range missile across the Pacific and partly a precaution against the unpredictable regime, military officials said Friday.

The United States has no indication that North Korean missile technology has improved markedly since past failed launches, and military and other assessments suggest the communist nation probably could not hit the westernmost U.S. state if it tried, officials said.

The North's Taepodong-2 could travel that far in theory, if it works as designed. But three test launches have either failed or do not demonstrate anything close to that range.Source (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hYphBjQpSQaF-1iOItH4PhHufOGwD98U2BSO0)