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View Full Version : (06.28.09) "Where Iran's Regime Learned its Tricks" (Daily Beast) pix of torture victim included


Laura Cereta
06-28-2009, 09:02 AM
Iran's torture practices are even worse than the beatings on YouTube. Daily Beast contributor and human rights lawyer Scott Horton on the nation's most notorious torturer.

Since June 14, Iran has witnessed a mass popular uprising against a fraudulent election, which bears some close comparisons with the one that toppled the shah in 1979. But the enthusiasm and resolve of the Green Revolution has been held in check by the brutal tools of a sophisticated police state that learned from the shah’s equivocation. The tools used so far and those now in planning allow us to sketch the outlines of the Khamenei police state. They also allow us better to understand what the opposition means when it calls for the restoration of the rule of law in Iran.



The Basij are controlled by the Iranian Republican Guard and are under the authority and control of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei—with personal loyalty to Khamenei a principal criterion for recruitment of members. Before the uprising, the Basij’s major function consisted of enforcing rules of public morality—requiring women, for instance, to wear the hijab in public, collecting and destroying pornography, and monitoring for and destroying satellite dishes. The use of truncheons and physical brutality are Basij signatures.



“The man, who has come from a small town in the eastern province of Khorasan and has never been in Tehran before, says he is being paid 2m rial ($200) to assault protesters with a heavy wooden stave. He says the money is the main incentive as it will enable him to get married and may even enable him to afford more than one wife. Leadership of the volunteers has been provided by a man known only as ‘Hajji,’ who has instructed his men to ‘beat the counter-revolutionaries so hard that they won’t be able to stand up.’



Police suppression techniques include use of tear gas and helicopters dumping burning liquid on protesters (likely tear gas compounds suspended in water). Police also use cameras and other imaging devices to make images of the protesters for use in their later identification and arrest. The regime also uses torture.



What happens to the thousands of protesters who are being carted away by the police and militia? The Iranian state has long had a predilection for torture; the overthrow of the shah and arrival of the Islamic republic produced only a slight modulation of the techniques.

Salon.com has recently published a detailed account of a 17-year-old who was seized last week by Basij militiamen and tortured:

“One of them asked me if [the former reformist president] Khatami would come save us, while they were breaking my fingers and cutting the finger webs. Although I swore a thousand times that I had not voted and had never participated in any demonstration, they didn’t care and just kept beating me hard. I fainted once or twice but there were 20 some of us who fainted every time their bones were broken, and as soon as they gained their consciousness, the riot police started beating them again. I was trying to contract my muscles to avoid further bone fracture. This continued till around 1 p.m., when they took us to another place, where security guards were in charge. We were then interrogated by the militia. Again, they kept beating me although I told them that I have never participated in any demonstration. In general, they were less harsh than the previous ones. In the evening, we were transferred to a police station where normal police with green uniforms hung us by our hands (you can see the signs of the string around my wrists on the pictures), they hung some of us upside down and started beating us again.”


http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu212/2059911/story1.jpg http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu212/2059911/story2.jpg http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu212/2059911/story3.jpg http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu212/2059911/story4.jpg


Torture is generally being applied with two primary objectives—to force prisoners to identify others involved in the demonstrations and coerce false confessions. The protesters are compelled to state that they went to demonstrations against the government because they fell under the influence of foreign media...



As usual, torture is used to develop false information that works as domestic propaganda. The claim that foreign news services are the principal instigators serves several goals. First, it will provide a basis for criminal charges against protest leaders like Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi. Under Iran’s Law of Discretionary Punishment (Qanon-e Ta’zir), “consorting with foreign powers” is a crime subject to severe punishment. It can and frequently is elevated to a more formal criminal charge of “espionage,” in which case the death penalty can be sought. But in the Iranian system, insulting government leaders, convening unlawful meetings, and making false statements to the government are also punishable crimes. Second, it can provide a basis to prosecute not only the protester who made the confession, but also those who were identified by him or her as participants. But most important, it is used to fuel the Khamenei regime’s propaganda that the opposition is controlled by evil foreign powers, especially the United States and Great Britain.


http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu212/2059911/dblogo.png (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-06-26/inside-khameneis-police-state/)

kyforhillary
06-28-2009, 09:14 AM
That's torture, waterboarding or putting a bug in someones cell is not torture.

Spang
06-28-2009, 11:21 AM
That's torture, waterboarding ... is not torture.

Waterboarding is torture.

Laura Cereta
06-28-2009, 02:11 PM
Waterboarding is torture.

genericstamp!hillarystamp!obamastamp!

kyforhillary
06-28-2009, 07:45 PM
Sorry, but to each his own. I personally don't think it is. You have the right to think otherwise also.

Reagan Coalition
06-28-2009, 08:17 PM
Sorry, but to each his own. I personally don't think it is. You have the right to think otherwise also.

I would rather be warterboarded than physically harmed like in those pics.. maybe waterboarding is more like torture lite but there is a difference between the processes. One is both psychological and physical whereas waterboarding is is just psychological.

While I don't think these tactics are very likely to often produce good results, I am against taking any option, save for the most of egregious, off the table. And I have no moral problem with letting some high ranking terrorists, who can be counted on one hand, feel as if they are drowning in order to try to get intelligence.

Considering the acts they have done and the people they train for their perverse and nefarious acts, they should be lucky Hammurabi's Code is an ancient relic.

Spang
06-28-2009, 08:19 PM
Not only is waterboarding torture, it's also highly ineffective.

kyforhillary
06-29-2009, 09:09 AM
Well, I personally think scaring someone with something like waterboarding vs. actual physical pain, is like apples and oranges. I don't know, and you don't know, what information was garnered from waterboarding. Of course the media tells the part it wants you to know, for example, the guy lied about being a part of something big. But, I'll also bet dollars to donuts they got reliable information also. He probably lied the first go around, but, he or they, also told the truth on some things.
I just can't for the life of me, understand how someone could uphold people like these terrorists. It's not like they are just going to go around and kill conservative Republicans, guess what, they are going to kill us all. It is unimaginable that people want them set free among us again. I have no sympathy whatsoever for people like this. However, real torture against innocent people like the ones in Iran, who want to live like we do and have the right to speak out without fear of being tortured is a whole other thing. Personally, I don't want to live in fear, nor do I want my children and grandchildren to live in fear of being blown up by some whacko religious nut who wants to die and go to paradise, so he can get his seven virgins. You know, if you think about the seven virgin things, it's about nothing more than sex, now is it? These are men, who actually think they could handle seven women, woohoo, don't just water board them, drown their asses!

Laura Cereta
06-29-2009, 09:16 AM
Well, I personally think scaring someone with something like waterboarding vs. actual physical pain, is like apples and oranges. I don't know, and you don't know, what information was garnered from waterboarding. Of course the media tells the part it wants you to know, for example, the guy lied about being a part of something big. But, I'll also bet dollars to donuts they got reliable information also. He probably lied the first go around, but, he or they, also told the truth on some things.
I just can't for the life of me, understand how someone could uphold people like these terrorists. It's not like they are just going to go around and kill conservative Republicans, guess what, they are going to kill us all. It is unimaginable that people want them set free among us again. I have no sympathy whatsoever for people like this. However, real torture against innocent people like the ones in Iran, who want to live like we do and have the right to speak out without fear of being tortured is a whole other thing. Personally, I don't want to live in fear, nor do I want my children and grandchildren to live in fear of being blown up by some whacko religious nut who wants to die and go to paradise, so he can get his seven virgins. You know, if you think about the seven virgin things, it's about nothing more than sex, now is it? These are men, who actually think they could handle seven women, woohoo, don't just water board them, drown their asses!

I agree that physical beatings are a more obvious form of torture, but I'm hesitant to say that physical pain is worse then psychological pain. Various studies would contradict this.

It's now thought that abandonment is the worst form of child abuse in terms of the percentage of people who experience it and have long term consequences. It's also a form of abuse that doesn't involve making a single mark on a person.

Being held captive by a foreign nation as a war criminal and led to believe that you are being drowned is not an appropriate investigative technique for the United States of America to employ under any circumstances, IMO.

kyforhillary
06-29-2009, 12:27 PM
Well, let's see abandonment has what to do with terrorists? They are isolated, maybe? What are they supposed to have, tea parties everyday? They are not children being abandoned, they are blood thirsty men who either want to blow us up, cut our heads off, stone us to death, drag us through the streets or burn us in public displays, not to mention take over our country. I, as a woman, do not want to wear a burkha, have to have a man with me when I go out in public, get stoned to death in public if these men percieve I have done something wrong, if I want to screw around I can, my husband may kill me, but not some raving lunatic who thinks he owns me. I have no sympathy for these thugs and that is what they are. These are not the peace loving people who embrace Islam, these are nut case radicals, who like I said want their seven virgins and martrydom. Think about this, really think. Seven virgins, now as a woman, to me that pretty much says it all. If they just wanted martyrdom, I maybe could understand, but when you throw the seven virgins in there that makes it a whole new ballgame. I don't want to die, nor my children or grandchildren to die because we mollycoddled these people. I live close to a place that stores bad shit, and I don't want these people coming in and blowing it up and it is possible because it is basically a rural area. Nah, like I said drown em.

Laura Cereta
06-29-2009, 01:01 PM
Well, let's see abandonment has what to do with terrorists? They are isolated, maybe? What are they supposed to have, tea parties everyday? They are not children being abandoned, they are blood thirsty men who either want to blow us up, cut our heads off, stone us to death, drag us through the streets or burn us in public displays, not to mention take over our country. I, as a woman, do not want to wear a burkha, have to have a man with me when I go out in public, get stoned to death in public if these men percieve I have done something wrong, if I want to screw around I can, my husband may kill me, but not some raving lunatic who thinks he owns me. I have no sympathy for these thugs and that is what they are. These are not the peace loving people who embrace Islam, these are nut case radicals, who like I said want their seven virgins and martrydom. Think about this, really think. Seven virgins, now as a woman, to me that pretty much says it all. If they just wanted martyrdom, I maybe could understand, but when you throw the seven virgins in there that makes it a whole new ballgame. I don't want to die, nor my children or grandchildren to die because we mollycoddled these people. I live close to a place that stores bad shit, and I don't want these people coming in and blowing it up and it is possible because it is basically a rural area. Nah, like I said drown em.

I'm certainly not debating that these are sick people of terribly warped character who appear insane and want to harm us (and have harmed us!).

I don't believe in torture by the U.S. because I do not believe it fits with the principles we were founded on. It's not that they're not bad; it's that we're not them.

Spang
06-29-2009, 01:02 PM
Torture is a cowardly thing to do.

kyforhillary
06-29-2009, 03:16 PM
I still stand my original opinion. Waterboarding is not torture to me. Unfortunately, some people don't agree and that is their right. I think if we tortured people, it would look like the pictures you posted above. If you don't use some form of coercion, then how do you get any kind of information. All countried have interrogation methods when someone is captured. I don't think our country has slipped into barbaric forms of interrogation.
As a former EMT, I understood perfectly, what the firefighters and rescuers did during 911. They never once thought of their own safety in order to try to save people. Fire and rescue is not glamorous like it is portrayed on t.v., it is real. These people that want to kill us are real, and I don't think one life that was lost during whatever it is politically correct to call it nowadays was worth one second for those people being held in detention to be given any of our rights under OUR Constitution. Just my humble opinion. And once again, I am not a Republican, just a proud mother, sister, niece and aunt of some brave men who served our country.