VIDEO: "Obama Refuses to Admit US Won Cold War"

[Tybee]

YouTube - Radical Obama Refuses to Admit US Won Cold War

[Tybee]

YouTube - Major Interview

[CGP]

Obama's answer was very appropriate. It's called being diplomatic and respectful. More people should try it!

I am so sick of "humility" being interpreted as unpatriotic.

Part of the reason so many people around the world have an issue with America is because of the ARROGANCE it has displayed at different times in modern history, courtesy of some loose-cannon leaders (eg. GWB). Obama is trying a new approach - and perhaps that may just work.

I cannot bare to listen to Sean Hannity - seriously can't bare it! %-( There is nobody more arrogant on American TV than Sean Hannity.

[Spang]

Obama's answer was very appropriate. It's called being diplomatic and respectful. More people should try it!

I am so sick of "humility" being interpreted as unpatriotic.

Part of the reason so many people around the world have an issue with America is because of the ARROGANCE it has displayed at different times in modern history, courtesy of some loose-cannon leaders (eg. GWB). Obama is trying a new approach - and perhaps that may just work.

And the award for best answer goes to...

[Tybee]

Obama's answer was very appropriate. It's called being diplomatic and respectful. More people should try it!

I am so sick of "humility" being interpreted as unpatriotic.

Part of the reason so many people around the world have an issue with America is because of the ARROGANCE it has displayed at different times in modern history, courtesy of some loose-cannon leaders (eg. GWB). Obama is trying a new approach - and perhaps that may just work.

I cannot bare to listen to Sean Hannity - seriously can't bare it! %-( There is nobody more arrogant on American TV than Sean Hannity.


My posting the video had zero to do with Hannity, it was just the only one I found.

But, part of the reason some have issues with the US is jealousy. Humility is ok IF it's justified, in this instance I don't think it is. IMO If he showed humility for himself, I might be inclined to agree to a point.
Obama has real issues with what the US has done that is good.

[Alces95]

My posting the video had zero to do with Hannity, it was just the only one I found.

But, part of the reason some have issues with the US is jealousy. Humility is ok IF it's justified, in this instance I don't think it is. IMO If he showed humility for himself, I might be inclined to agree to a point.
Obama has real issues with what the US has done that is good.

IMO this is Obama's biggest problem. He is trying to be as objective as possible and some Americans do not want that. They want someone who is not objective in their anaylsis and starts from a position that if we did it its right.

I think he is doing the right thing. There comes a time where you move on from the past (which is his point of the trip; a reset.) Otherwise, a bunch of us from the north should go down south and remind them who won.

[Ikasu]

Ronald Reagan (:|

[Laura Cereta]

Diplomacy is hard and I understand all points made so far in this thread. Some thoughts: humility is certainly not a bad thing. It is also not the same thing as humiliation. Foreign policy has all the elements of a personal relationship with much higher stakes. When should humility be used? When should arrogance be used? Should arrogance ever be used? Is there such a thing as too much apologizing, even if your country was in the wrong?

We will never all agree on the answers to these questions and there's probably more then one right answer. It's a tightrope walk. I've found Obama to be (including his response on the Cold War) a little bit too "humble" in his overall approach for my taste. The irony of this is that I don't think Obama the man is humble at all. In foreign policy matters, I wish he'd move more towards the center of that fine invisible line.

[Tybee]

YouTube - OBAMA APOLOGIZES FOR AMERICA!





YouTube - America's Shame: Obama Calls U.S. "Arrogant" & "Dismissive" in Speech in France

[Alces95]

YouTube - OBAMA APOLOGIZES FOR AMERICA! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3uIB67hZJg)





YouTube - America's Shame: Obama Calls U.S. "Arrogant" & "Dismissive" in Speech in France (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLZer0P9l1M&feature=related)


Pretty heavy charges levied in the video you posted. Do you feel that Obama is a traitor? That comes with a stiff penalty. Do you feel half of the country also then hates America since the video says that is what we need to apologize for?

You are making the same mistake as some of us did with Bush. Just because Obama does something you disagree with it is not because he is evil or hates America. You may disagree with his policies or ideas of what government looks like but it is not something that makes us evil or wrong.

When are you going to be ready to discuss real issues other than why Obama is bad? Or is this all I can expect from you? I have never seen you post about an issue and not have to say why its Obama's fault and why he is unamerican or a traitor or....

[Ikasu]

When are you going to be ready to discuss real issues other than why Obama is bad? Or is this all I can expect from you? I have never seen you post about an issue and not have to say why its Obama's fault and why he is unamerican or a traitor or....

Hali is here looking for a fight. All her posts have the same tone.

[Brooke]

Hey Ikasu, is this a new name?

[Spang]

Hey Ikasu, is this a new name?

I know who it is...

[Ikasu]

Hey Ikasu, is this a new name?

HillFan86, went for a lil change!

[Tybee]

Alrighty...

There were shovel ready jobs.
The stimulus is working.
Businesses are hiring.
Unemployment is going down.
Cap and Trade will create new businesses and new jobs.
Our government isn't in the banking industry.
ACORN isn't partisan and works for us all.
We are arrogant, and our President should apologize for us.


Feel free to add and other happy thoughts.

[Brooke]

HillFan86, went for a lil change!

Ahh cool! Okay, the new name thing is going to confuse me..lol.

[Ikasu]

Ahh cool! Okay, the new name thing is going to confuse me..lol.

It's like when the cable company changes the channels for no reason.

[Brooke]

It's like when the cable company changes the channels for no reason.

Oh Comcast only seems to do that to the Philadelphia Park Racing channel around these parts. :laughing:

[Alces95]

Alrighty...

There were shovel ready jobs.
The stimulus is working.
Businesses are hiring.
Unemployment is going down.
Cap and Trade will create new businesses and new jobs.
Our government isn't in the banking industry.
ACORN isn't partisan and works for us all.
We are arrogant, and our President should apologize for us.


Feel free to add and other happy thoughts.

:-bd
One of the names that was discussed for here implied a place for moderates. It is a shame we aren't there. Politics is not binary. There are better answers in the middle. Children can't understand middle ground. I would hope that we could do better.

[NativeSun]

Obama's answer was very appropriate. It's called being diplomatic and respectful. More people should try it!

I am so sick of "humility" being interpreted as unpatriotic.

Part of the reason so many people around the world have an issue with America is because of the ARROGANCE it has displayed at different times in modern history, courtesy of some loose-cannon leaders (eg. GWB). Obama is trying a new approach - and perhaps that may just work.

I cannot bare to listen to Sean Hannity - seriously can't bare it! %-( There is nobody more arrogant on American TV than Sean Hannity.

I have yet to encounter anybody from Eastern Europe who wants to go back to the pre-Cold War era. They know that democracy is not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than what they had before. And Obama has absolutely no sense of historical relevance whatsoever, so I can't really blame him for his comment. He gets a pass by default.

[Laura Cereta]

Well, let's look at the original question being debated... if Obama's answer is not to your liking, how would you have answered? Did we "win" the Cold War? Did we win the war of ideas when the Soviet Union collapsed?

[NativeSun]

Well, let's look at the original question being debated... if Obama's answer is not to your liking, how would you have answered? Did we "win" the Cold War? Did we win the war of ideas when the Soviet Union collapsed?

It really isn't a U.S. vs Soviet Union victory but rather a democray vs a totalitarian system, and we were very much the ones advocating the democracy one.

[Spang]

Did we "win" the Cold War? Did we win the war of ideas when the Soviet Union collapsed?

Yes but...

"Let me go back to a comfortable analogy for me - sports... basketball."

How do you think the Oralndo Magic would feel if tomorrow the Lakers visited them and told them that they [the Lakers] won the championship?

[Tybee]

:-bd
One of the names that was discussed for here implied a place for moderates. It is a shame we aren't there. Politics is not binary. There are better answers in the middle. Children can't understand middle ground. I would hope that we could do better.

I don't see any middle ground on making apologies for our 'perceived' arrogance. Some people are arrogant, some aren't, in every country on earth. Do you think honestly that we should apologized to France for this perceived arrogance? I also don't see any middle ground on a stimulus bill that was rushed and signed, barely any given out, and not working.
You have the floor, feel free to list things that are working under Obama. Personally, I know 5 people out of work. I'd like to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

[Tybee]

I have yet to encounter anybody from Eastern Europe who wants to go back to the pre-Cold War era. They know that democracy is not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than what they had before. And Obama has absolutely no sense of historical relevance whatsoever, so I can't really blame him for his comment. He gets a pass by default.


There's also some info where Putin lectured (yep lectured) Obama on the cold war for almost a hour.

[NativeSun]

There's also some info where Putin lectured (yep lectured) Obama on the cold war for almost a hour.

First Hugo Chavez, now Vladimir Putin? Poor Obama...he thought everyone liked him.:(

[mack20]

Here's what I find so irritating about people claiming the Obama is on some sort of "apology tour" and that doing so would be distinctly un-American/traitorous. These claims seem to rely almost entirely on very specific short sections of his speeches. But nearly every time he follows his apology with a pointed criticism of the opposing side. For instance, in Strasbourg he said:

In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

And that's the part that people love to jump on, with total disregard for the sentences that directly followed it, where he stated:
But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad.

On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common. They are not wise. They do not represent the truth. They threaten to widen the divide across the Atlantic and leave us both more isolated. They fail to acknowledge the fundamental truth that America cannot confront the challenges of this century alone, but that Europe cannot confront them without America.

And in fact, he expressed a very similar sentiment in Berlin:
In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common. In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future. Both views miss the truth -- that Europeans today are bearing new burdens and taking more responsibility in critical parts of the world; and that just as American bases built in the last century still help to defend the security of this continent, so does our country still sacrifice greatly for freedom around the globe.

[Spang]

Hannity again crops Obama's comments abroad in order to smear him (http://mediamatters.org/research/200907080007)

GARRETT: In your speech this morning, you said the Cold War reached its conclusion because of the actions of many nations over many years. Mr. President, are the Russian sensitivities so fragile that you can't say the Cold War was won? The West won it? And it was led by a combination of Democratic and Republican American presidents?

OBAMA: Well, listen, the -- I think that you just cut out Lech Walesa and the Poles. You just cut out Havel and the Czechs. There were a whole bunch of people throughout Eastern Europe who showed enormous courage.

And I think that it is very important in this part of the world to acknowledge the degree to which people struggled for their own freedom. I'm very proud of the traditions of Democratic and Republican presidents to lift the Iron Curtain.

But, you know, we don't have to diminish other people in order to recognize our role in that history.

[Meg]

So what would have been the point had Obama stated what's already been established in history? To stroke the US's ego? Last time I checked we don't make trips to Japan and constantly remind them we nuked them... Twice!


My guess is that type of approach won't help get us anywhere!

[Suzan]

Actually, the current talks with Russia ARE that sensitive. Check out this thread:

(7-7-09): ""With Russia, it's handle with care" (LAT) Russia is potential spoiler for ALL Obama's foreign policy priorities...

http://www.cgpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=46994

[Lealy]

Yes but...

"Let me go back to a comfortable analogy for me - sports... basketball."

How do you think the Oralndo Magic would feel if tomorrow the Lakers visited them and told them that they [the Lakers] won the championship?

Did they win? If so reality and the knowledge that they need to work harder the next time.

[Spang]

Did they win? If so reality and the knowledge that they need to work harder the next time.

Yes, the Lakers won and in my basketball analogy, a la Sarah Palin, scenario they went to Orlando, the team the Lakers beat to win the championship, and with much arrogance, told them how badly they beat them.

Some people want Obama to do the same to Russia.

[Laura Cereta]

It really isn't a U.S. vs Soviet Union victory but rather a democray vs a totalitarian system, and we were very much the ones advocating the democracy one.

Absolutely. But did democracy win? In some ways yes. But there are still plenty of countries that are not democracies and they don't want to be.

The Soviet Union might have collapsed but totalitarianism did not.

[Laura Cereta]

Here's what I find so irritating about people claiming the Obama is on some sort of "apology tour" and that doing so would be distinctly un-American/traitorous. These claims seem to rely almost entirely on very specific short sections of his speeches. But nearly every time he follows his apology with a pointed criticism of the opposing side. For instance, in Strasbourg he said:

In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.

And that's the part that people love to jump on, with total disregard for the sentences that directly followed it, where he stated:


But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad.

On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common. They are not wise. They do not represent the truth. They threaten to widen the divide across the Atlantic and leave us both more isolated. They fail to acknowledge the fundamental truth that America cannot confront the challenges of this century alone, but that Europe cannot confront them without America.


And in fact, he expressed a very similar sentiment in Berlin:


In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common. In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future. Both views miss the truth -- that Europeans today are bearing new burdens and taking more responsibility in critical parts of the world; and that just as American bases built in the last century still help to defend the security of this continent, so does our country still sacrifice greatly for freedom around the globe.



First off, I think a certain amount of apologizing was in order after the Bush years, and the soft glove approach was probably needed with some countries.

However, Obama bringing up the short-comings of both sides (very eloquently) would be great if he was a divorce mediator. I think.... I THINK he's the President of the United States.

[cinnamongirl]

I don't really understand this urge to scream, "America is the best at everything!!!!!!!" from the international rooftops. We helped Russia throw off the shackles of an oppressive regime--but it's not like everything's been wine and roses in that region ever since. Rubbing everyone's noses in it about "winning" is counterproductive.

And Ikasu, I thought you sounded familiar. :)

[CGP]

I don't really understand this urge to scream, "America is the best at everything!!!!!!!" from the international rooftops.

Some people seem to think arrogance is attractive and endearing.

Other people realize that arrogance, especially at a national level, can be very problematic and troublesome.

[Spang]

Some people seem to think arrogance is attractive and endearing.

The irony is that these people criticized Obama for allegedly being arrogant during the election. Now they're criticizing him for not being arrogant.

[CGP]

The irony is that these people criticized Obama for allegedly being arrogant during the election. Now they're criticizing him for not being arrogant.

The common theme is they don't like him. So it doesn't matter what he does.

[Tybee]

So you guys agree that rubbing a victory in the face of a party you are trying to bridge a gap with is a "childish thing". Well, the Cold War ended nearly two decades ago. WW2 ended over six decades ago. The election ended less than 1 year ago. And yet when the Republicans reached out in a bipartisan effort to join Obama for discussion, he literally did rub that "victory" in their face. So we can all finally agree that the lack of bipartisanship rests solely in the lap of Barack Obama. Well, if we don't want to be hypocrites now.

[Tybee]

Yes but...

"Let me go back to a comfortable analogy for me - sports... basketball."

How do you think the Oralndo Magic would feel if tomorrow the Lakers visited them and told them that they [the Lakers] won the championship?


Spang, you are equating the highest stakes end game war ever, the Cold War, with a sports rivalry. Nice comparison that contains absolutely no validity.

[matiah]

The irony is that these people criticized Obama for allegedly being arrogant during the election. Now they're criticizing him for not being arrogant.


He was and still arrogant when he is in the U.S. I wish he would display the same level of alleged humility when talking to Americans. He is a wanna be lion here and a weak pussy cat craving attention when he is abroad.

The problem is all of this chummying up to dictators and U.S. enemies will blow up in his face and eventually ours.

By the way, the ordinary Russians were not listening to him. They had better things to do.

Obama's Speech Not Widely Seen on TV in Russia (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/07/obamas-speech-widely-seen-tv-russia/)

[Alces95]

Did they win? If so reality and the knowledge that they need to work harder the next time.

I think I finally see the light.

Let me try out that stretegy here. I post here to seek common ground.

Obama won. Defeated Clinton! Trounced! Learn from that and get over it!

Yes we can!!! USA! USA! :rockon:


Does anyone feel like negotiating now?


I want peace between Russia and US. The cold war was exactly what some of you are asking Obama to do - arrogance on both sides, less talking and more threats.

[Laura Cereta]

I think I finally see the light.

Let me try out that stretegy here. I post here to seek common ground.

Obama won. Defeated Clinton! Trounced! Learn from that and get over it!

Yes we can!!! USA! USA! :rockon:


Does anyone feel like negotiating now?


I want peace between Russia and US. The cold war was exactly what some of you are asking Obama to do - arrogance on both sides, less talking and more threats.

Sure, I'll attempt a negotiation. What are the issues? What are you asking for? What's your first offer? (Better make it outrageous and let me "compromise" and give you want you really want.) ;) What are you offering? What's the topic?!

Yes, the Cold War was arrogance on both sides. It was also an arms race, a space race, and much more. The U.S. supports the principles of democracy. There is nothing wrong with being proud of that.

[cinnamongirl]

So you guys agree that rubbing a victory in the face of a party you are trying to bridge a gap with is a "childish thing". Well, the Cold War ended nearly two decades ago. WW2 ended over six decades ago. The election ended less than 1 year ago. And yet when the Republicans reached out in a bipartisan effort to join Obama for discussion, he literally did rub that "victory" in their face. So we can all finally agree that the lack of bipartisanship rests solely in the lap of Barack Obama. Well, if we don't want to be hypocrites now.

And the last time the Republicans tried sincerely to achieve bipartisanship was...? The Bush admin was one big "screw you guys" to the Democrats.

At least Russia makes an effort at friendly relations (Putin issues aside), so we should respond in kind.

[Spang]

Spang, you are equating the highest stakes end game war ever, the Cold War, with a sports rivalry. Nice comparison that contains absolutely no validity.

That was my Sarah Palin impersonation.

[cinnamongirl]

Yes, the Cold War was arrogance on both sides. It was also an arms race, a space race, and much more. The U.S. supports the principles of democracy. There is nothing wrong with being proud of that.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of that. But bringing it up so many years later just for the sake of crowing about it is highly counterproductive at this point.

[Spang]

(No Nudity)

[Laura Cereta]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being proud of that. But bringing it up so many years later just for the sake of crowing about it is highly counterproductive at this point.

True.