(07/15/09) "‘Give it to me!’ Obama takes charge of economy" (by Jim Kuhnhenn, MSNBC in association with the Associated Press)

[Spang]

“I love these folks who helped get us in this mess and then suddenly say, ‘Well, this is Obama’s economy,’” President Barack Obama said Tuesday in Warren, Mich. “That’s fine. Give it to me!”

WASHINGTON - With four simple words — "Give it to me!" — President Barack Obama took possession of the economy.

For months, the White House and Obama's economic team have laid the economic crisis at the feet of President George W. Bush. But there comes a point in a presidency when inheritance becomes ownership. Obama made that pivot Tuesday in Michigan, the state suffering the worst unemployment in the nation.

"I love these folks who helped get us in this mess and then suddenly say, 'Well, this is Obama's economy,'" the president said in a pointed deviation from his prepared text. "That's fine. Give it to me!"

It was a defiant moment, reminiscent of Bush's own "Bring 'em on!" taunt in 2003 to militants in Iraq.

Like Bush's brash challenge, Obama's could haunt him, too. It's a calculated risk that confronts his critics head-on and casts him as an activist, on-the-job president.

"My job is to solve problems, not to stand on the sidelines and harp and gripe," he said Tuesday, his sleeves rolled up, barely disguising his targets as congressional Republicans.

Still, most economists and Obama's own advisers foresee a slow economic recovery. The president himself conceded Tuesday that unemployment, already at a 26-year high, will likely "tick up for several months." Republicans see the economy as Obama's Achilles' heel come next year's elections, and they have found a political vulnerability in the continued rise in unemployment despite a $787 billion economic stimulus that Obama pushed through Congress in February.

Unemployment at 9.5 percent
In choosing Michigan to attach his name to the economy, Obama picked a state whose 14.1 percent unemployment rate could linger as evidence of policy failure. As home to the U.S. auto industry, it could also stand as a symbol of one of his first economic successes. Both General Motors and Chrysler have emerged in surprisingly swift fashion from bankruptcy protection proceedings that were imposed by the Obama administration.

"Remember, folks said there was no way they could do it?" Obama told his audience in hard-hit Warren, Mich. "They've gotten it done already, in record time, far faster than anybody thought possible."

After a week spent overseas, the feisty, confrontational approach aims to regain the agenda from his critics. In one bold step this week, the Obama administration singled out Sen. Jon Kyl, a member of the Senate Republican leadership, for calling for an end to economic stimulus spending. Using Obama's Cabinet members as muscle, the White House on Tuesday made public letters from four department secretaries listing transportation, housing, Indian education and other projects in Kyl's home state that they said would be eliminated if the senator had his way. The letter was addressed to Arizona's Republican governor, Jan Brewer.

At the same time, Obama is appealing for patience. In his weekly radio and Internet address Saturday and in a newspaper opinion piece, Obama argued that the stimulus program was designed as a two-year plan and that it had already halted the economic free fall. It hasn't helped Obama, however, that the jobless rate now stands at 9.5 percent, even though his economic team initially predicted that the stimulus would prevent unemployment from going higher than 8 percent.

‘Where's the jobs?’
Obama and his advisers say the recession turned out to be worse than anticipated when they made that forecast in January. Still, 2 million jobs have been lost since Congress passed the stimulus package.

"I want the president's economic stimulus to work, but guess what? It's not happening right now," Rep. Candice Miller, R-Mich., said Tuesday, voicing a common GOP refrain. "I don't even think we have Wendy's jobs anymore. Where's the beef? Where's the jobs?"

Obama's unflinching embrace of his economic policies means he now is responsible for their consequences. If the free fall is now in check, as he claims, then the economy can no longer be Bush's legacy alone.

What's more, even amid indicators that show the economic plunge is slowing, unemployment in recent recessions has been slow to recover as quickly as the rest of the economy. And jobs are the clearest yardstick by which the public measures success. For Obama and his fellow Democrats, the danger lies in unemployment rates that remain high in time for next year's congressional elections, or in a slow recovery that peters out and leads back into a recession.

Obama has already taken ownership of the nation's foreign policy. In March, he announced a new approach in Afghanistan that included sending an additional 17,000 combat troops. Marines have just kicked off an offensive in Taliban strongholds in the south of the country. And two weeks ago, American troops in Iraq handed over security urban areas to Iraqi security forces, the first step toward meeting Obama's pledge to end an unpopular war.

Now, just days shy of the symbolic six-month anniversary of his presidency, Obama has laid claim to the full measure of the job. When it comes to the economy, no one — certainly not his Republican critics — is going to keep him from taking it.

The Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31924749/ns/business-economy_in_turmoil/)

[CGP]

"I love these folks who helped get us in this mess and then suddenly say, 'Well, this is Obama's economy,'" the president said in a pointed deviation from his prepared text. "That's fine. Give it to me!"


Very true. Perhaps the Republicans are glad they actually lost in 2008 so that they can now redirect all the blame for the economy to Obama.

[matiah]

Very true. Perhaps the Republicans are glad they actually lost in 2008 so that they can now redirect all the blame for the economy to Obama.

But he got the job to fix the economy. He should stop whining and do some useful work.

And, yes, the Republicans should take advantage of his miserable failure so far and blame him for everything.

[CGP]

But he got the job to fix the economy. He should stop whining and do some useful work.

And, yes, the Republicans should take advantage of his miserable failure so far and blame him for everything.

Doesn't sound like he is "whining"...Actually, it sounds like he is responding to some "whining" by Republicans.

"Miserable failure" - 6 months hardly seems like a long enough time to draw such a catashropic conclusion.

[mack20]

Doesn't sound like he is "whining"...Actually, it sounds like he is responding to some "whining" by Republicans.

"Miserable failure" - 6 months hardly seems like a long enough time to draw such a catashropic conclusion.


I've seen plenty of people online who believed that 6 DAYS was enough time to give him. I swear, if I actually believed in half the things I saw people post online I would have ventured down into an underground bunker to wait for the complete and utter destruction of America months ago!

[Tybee]

Doesn't sound like he is "whining"...Actually, it sounds like he is responding to some "whining" by Republicans.

"Miserable failure" - 6 months hardly seems like a long enough time to draw such a catashropic conclusion.

People ranted and called Bush every name in the book about the debt. Guess that was partisan rants.

[Tybee]

I've seen plenty of people online who believed that 6 DAYS was enough time to give him. I swear, if I actually believed in half the things I saw people post online I would have ventured down into an underground bunker to wait for the complete and utter destruction of America months ago!

Was it different than Bush? How long was it before people lied about Palin? 6 hours?

[matiah]

Doesn't sound like he is "whining"...Actually, it sounds like he is responding to some "whining" by Republicans.

"Miserable failure" - 6 months hardly seems like a long enough time to draw such a catashropic conclusion.

Well, he promised the stimulus package will start working almost immediately. Millions of jobs will be created or saved. So far millions of jobs have been lost. And, just yesterday, Obama said the job losses would continue for months. Wait and watch when he will change months to years.

[mack20]

Was it different than Bush? How long was it before people lied about Palin? 6 hours?

Other than people believing Bush was not legitimately elected, the man had a pretty easy first 9 months or so. I don't recall people thinking the world was coming to an end because of his presidency until quite a bit after 9/11. But somehow Obama is supposed to wave a magic wand and right everything that is currently wrong with the US economy the second he was sworn in or he becomes a "massive failure".

And what does anyone lying about Palin have to do with this? Or did you just want to throw her on there to once again play up her victim role?

[CGP]

How long was it before people lied about Palin? 6 hours?

Palin is not the president.

All politicians are subjected to misrepresentation by critics/detractors. It's not exatly a new thing.

[mack20]

Well, he promised the stimulus package will start working almost immediately. Millions of jobs will be created or saved. So far millions of jobs have been lost. And, just yesterday, Obama said the job losses would continue for months. Wait and watch when he will change months to years.

The stimulus package IS working. It probably wasn't actually big enough, and the administration is trying to be very careful about how the money is spent, but even those "shovel ready projects" need some time to get under way. But the stimulus has significantly slowed the rate of job loss and were it not for it we might have already spiraled into a depression. It wasn't a magic fix-all, but it was necessary and it is working. As the shovel ready projects over the next few months really gear up and are ready to be implemented and contractors are chosen, etc, we'll start to see more stimulus funds going out the door and we'll see them have a greater impact on the economy.

I love how I constantly see people say that fiscal policies take YEARS to take effect (like how people like to discredit Clinton's surplus by saying it was the result of Reagan's policies), but Obama's policy is supposed to work in a month to fix one of the largest economies in the world or he's an abject failure.

[Kbentleyis]

I guess 1.1 trillion dollars in 6 months are just an extension from Bush's spending? What a winer! For the first time BHO, grow a set, and take responsibility! “I love these folks who helped get us in this mess and then suddenly say, ‘Well, this is Obama’s economy,’” President Barack Obama said Tuesday in Warren, Mich. “That’s fine. Give it to me!” To me, it's tlike telling someone with a broken arm--"I can make it better by making it a compound fracture!"

I hope people aren't falling for this bull. 1.1 trillion in 6 months? Buying and spending is out of control. Cap and Trade? Obamacare? I'm fed up with his socialist plans. Small businesses are going down the tubes, and the only ones surviving... Goldman Sachs, GE, unions? Big political fund donors.

I'm sick of the lies from his mouth.

[mack20]

I guess 1.1 trillion dollars in 6 months are just an extension from Bush's spending? What a winer! For the first time BHO, grow a set, and take responsibility!

Uh, I do believe the part you quoted IS him taking responsibility, even though the financial crisis was well under way before he ever became president.

[matiah]

Sometimes you can tell the ending of a book from the first six pages. If Obama was thinking like your post implies, he should not have made so many promise he knew he couldn't keep.

Yes, everyone knows fixing the economy takes a long time. The problem is Obama did not say that. He set many grand goals with no clear vision of what it entails to revive the economy. In short, he set himself up for failure. He gave the first hint when he said he did not expect the economy to be that bad. Where was he living?



The stimulus package IS working. It probably wasn't actually big enough, and the administration is trying to be very careful about how the money is spent, but even those "shovel ready projects" need some time to get under way. But the stimulus has significantly slowed the rate of job loss and were it not for it we might have already spiraled into a depression. It wasn't a magic fix-all, but it was necessary and it is working. As the shovel ready projects over the next few months really gear up and are ready to be implemented and contractors are chosen, etc, we'll start to see more stimulus funds going out the door and we'll see them have a greater impact on the economy.

I love how I constantly see people say that fiscal policies take YEARS to take effect (like how people like to discredit Clinton's surplus by saying it was the result of Reagan's policies), but Obama's policy is supposed to work in a month to fix one of the largest economies in the world or he's an abject failure.

[Kbentleyis]

You are sorely deceiving yourself if you think for one minute that this joker is not responsible for what is going on right now.

Stimulus? If you, or anyone else that supports this clown would actually READ what is being proposed by the dems and BHO... maybe, just maybe common sense would kick in.

I guess none of you, who support him, care. That's fine. You'll all suffer just like the rest of us, and that will be my only compensation.

How many "buyers remorse" have you read? Maybe from those that are getting hit hard right now by inaction from our government.

I know there aren't stupid people on this forum. If anyone has read where this "stimulus" and TARP money has gone so far, surely there must be some objections from everyone.

This administration is a "cash and grab". They're taxing us to death and grabing what they can to pad their pockets. GE, Goldman Sachs, and Pelosi, Mackey, Reid, and several other representatives have big "green" initiative investments.

Even Pickens is cowarding out of this Cap & TAX. Is anyone but me really ticked off what's happening in our government?

[Spang]

Sarah Palin is a clown and a joker.

[Kbentleyis]

Sarah Palin is a clown and a joker.

And... you would know! Your keen perceptions have overwhelmed us with the forum.

[Spang]

And... you would know!

Yes, 'cause I'm a clown and a joker, too. I'll just add that to the lengthy list of horrible things I am. :thumbsup:

[matiah]

Sarah Palin is a clown and a joker.

What does she have to do with the topic?

[Spang]

What does she have to do with the topic?

Nothing at all. In the previous post, Obama is called a clown and a joker, so I wanted to see what kind of reactions there'd be if Palin was also called a clown and a joker. It's a social experiment.

[mack20]

You are sorely deceiving yourself if you think for one minute that this joker is not responsible for what is going on right now.

Stimulus? If you, or anyone else that supports this clown would actually READ what is being proposed by the dems and BHO... maybe, just maybe common sense would kick in.

I guess none of you, who support him, care. That's fine. You'll all suffer just like the rest of us, and that will be my only compensation.

How many "buyers remorse" have you read? Maybe from those that are getting hit hard right now by inaction from our government.

I know there aren't stupid people on this forum. If anyone has read where this "stimulus" and TARP money has gone so far, surely there must be some objections from everyone.

This administration is a "cash and grab". They're taxing us to death and grabing what they can to pad their pockets. GE, Goldman Sachs, and Pelosi, Mackey, Reid, and several other representatives have big "green" initiative investments.

Even Pickens is cowarding out of this Cap & TAX. Is anyone but me really ticked off what's happening in our government?

You're totally right, how could I have been so stupid?! Obama is responsible for the September crashes of the stock and housing markets. It's entirely his faults that banks, insurance companies and mortgage lenders failed before he was even elected, let alone inaugurated. He is solely responsible for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler, even though Dick Cheney has publicly said that George W. Bush knew that GM would need to declare Chapter 11 but decided to leave that issue to Obama. He's also responsible for all the TARP issues (including its passage), even though TARP was a GWB program.

I feel so liberated!

[mack20]

What does she have to do with the topic?

Who knows, ask Hali. She's the one who bought Palin's name up.

[matiah]

Hopefully, no participants.

Nothing at all. In the previous post, Obama is called a clown and a joker, so I wanted to see what kind of reactions there'd be if Palin was also called a clown and a joker. It's a social experiment.

[Suzan]

Like Bush's brash challenge, Obama's could haunt him, too. It's a calculated risk that confronts his critics head-on and casts him as an activist, on-the-job president.

I think this is exactly what he needs to be. I could respect him a whole lot more in this mode.

[Suzan]

Yes, 'cause I'm a clown and a joker, too. I'll just add that to the lengthy list of horrible things I am. :thumbsup:
Who is keeping this list? Can anyone add to it? ;)

[The_Basseteer]

Does Obama Have a different copy of the Constitution than the rest of us? (http://www.pjtv.com/video/Trifecta/Whittle|Ott|Green%3A_Does_Obama_Have_a_Different_C opy_of_the_Constitution_than_the_Rest_of_Us%3F/2163/)


If Obama is God...does talking about him is school violate seperation of church and state?

[Tybee]

Other than people believing Bush was not legitimately elected, the man had a pretty easy first 9 months or so. I don't recall people thinking the world was coming to an end because of his presidency until quite a bit after 9/11. But somehow Obama is supposed to wave a magic wand and right everything that is currently wrong with the US economy the second he was sworn in or he becomes a "massive failure".

And what does anyone lying about Palin have to do with this? Or did you just want to throw her on there to once again play up her victim role?

What I said about Palin was an example that she did nothing to invoke the hatred she got immediately after being nominated, but we're supposed to give Obama a pass when he PUSHED a stimulus bill that was FILLED with things that would do NOTHING for jobs or the economy. He didn't want anyone to actually read it, why?? We were basically told IT HAD TO BE PASSED NOW! At this moment, 10% or less has been given out. Some seem to defend with their eyes and ears closed.

You said:
You're totally right, how could I have been so stupid?! Obama is responsible for the September crashes of the stock and housing markets. It's entirely his faults that banks, insurance companies and mortgage lenders failed before he was even elected, let alone inaugurated. He is solely responsible for the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler, even though Dick Cheney has publicly said that George W. Bush knew that GM would need to declare Chapter 11 but decided to leave that issue to Obama. He's also responsible for all the TARP issues (including its passage), even though TARP was a GWB program.


No, not solely responsible, but he was a Senator. Plus, he was a part of the 'making sure anyone and everyone has the right to own a home even if they couldn't afford one' mentality.

[Alces95]

What I said about Palin was an example that she did nothing to invoke the hatred she got immediately after being nominated, but we're supposed to give Obama a pass when he PUSHED a stimulus bill that was FILLED with things that would do NOTHING for jobs or the economy. He didn't want anyone to actually read it, why?? We were basically told IT HAD TO BE PASSED NOW! At this moment, 10% or less has been given out. Some seem to defend with their eyes and ears closed.

You said:

No, not solely responsible, but he was a Senator. Plus, he was a part of the 'making sure anyone and everyone has the right to own a home even if they couldn't afford one' mentality.

I don't think you truly understand how bad our economy was. If we didn't pass tarp (GWB) or the stimulous, we would be in such dire straights now. My thought is that we would be describing the employment number because it would be lower.

The arguements against this are laughable. It spent too much but only 10% of has been spent and he hasn't spent it all and its not working but we bail out people ect.... Its all rhetoric! There are parts of it that were not allocated appropriately. You find and organization that doesn't have some issues with this. Good Companies hire efficiency experts more than once!

A 2nd stim would be a bad idea IMO. The 1st was sorely needed. With all do respect, don't be a pawn in the repubs/conservative political machine. Make them earn it too.

[cinnamongirl]

No, not solely responsible, but he was a Senator. Plus, he was a part of the 'making sure anyone and everyone has the right to own a home even if they couldn't afford one' mentality.

Oh, you mean the mentality fostered by Bush's "ownership society"? I don't recall him mentioning Obama in that speech, but maybe you can let me know where he credits Obama with helping that movement grow.

[Tybee]

Oh, you mean the mentality fostered by Bush's "ownership society"? I don't recall him mentioning Obama in that speech, but maybe you can let me know where he credits Obama with helping that movement grow.


An ownership society values responsibility, liberty, and property. Individuals are empowered by freeing them from dependence on government handouts and making them owners instead, in control of their own lives and destinies. In the ownership society, patients control their own health care, parents control their own children's education, and workers control their retirement savings.

Aristotle wrote, "What belongs in common to the most people is accorded the least care: they take thought for their own things above all, and less about things common, or only so much as falls to each individually."

[cinnamongirl]

An ownership society values responsibility, liberty, and property. Individuals are empowered by freeing them from dependence on government handouts and making them owners instead, in control of their own lives and destinies. In the ownership society, patients control their own health care, parents control their own children's education, and workers control their retirement savings.

Aristotle wrote, "What belongs in common to the most people is accorded the least care: they take thought for their own things above all, and less about things common, or only so much as falls to each individually."

That's all true, but it's incomplete. The Bush admin tied it also to concrete property ownership.

"We're creating... an ownership society in this country, where more Americans than ever will be able to open up their door where they live and say, welcome to my house, welcome to my piece of property. - President George W. Bush, October 2004

[jlynne]

This is a thread that had some merit so I will see if I can redirect it or whether the sniping continues.

Obama may have taken office in January but he was an active part of the economic discussions at least from November 2008 forward and was heavily involved in developing economic policies throughout the campaign which begin as early as 2006, well before the recession started. That is why I give little credence to the "timing" arguments. Obama had an opportunity to oppose every one of Bush's spending measures over his second term and to do so in a very public forum. So I do believe he has "owned" the economy from day one. In fact, I think Bush happily handed it over to Obama's transitition team a few weeks early.

What did Obama say the stimulus bill would do? Keep us from going into a depression? If that is the measure, he is right about the result (not necessarily the causation). We are in a deep and prolonged recession rather than a depression. Of course, we weren't teetering on the brink of a depression when he made that dire prediction, either. Economically things weren't even as bad as they were during the Jimmy Carter administration. In fact, economically things were very similar to the late 80s and the Savings and Loans crisis.

What did Obama's supporters say the stimulus bill would do? Everything from pay their car payment, save their house, keep Catepillar jobs in OH, save the US auto industry, and put US astronauts on Mars. Some of those things were said with Obama's approval and some weren't. What did Obama's opponents say it would do? Bankrupt the country, cause huge job losses, direct money toward mice rather than men, mortgage our children's future without providing anyone but politicians with any benefits. Obama and his supporters, of course, denied this would happen.

So far, the only expectations the stimulus bill have lived up to are Obama's (stopped a depression) and some of Obama's opponents (caused massive debt, resulted in higher unemployment).

If you look at my prior postings, I said the stimulus bill would lead to double digit unemployment and that it could lower the US credit rating. We are almost six months down the road and when I look at the economic situation I see unemployment rising, the national debt rising at an extremely high pace, and productivity down so much that the US will be hard pressed to make its debt payments without using short term debt financing. That reinforces my belief that you can't spend your way out of a recession and that Keynesian economics do not work. And it makes me even more hesitant about Obamanomics.

[Suzan]

Thanks, jlynne, for the redirection! :thumbsup:

Name-calling and personal attacks will always derail a thread. They put everyone on the defensive, nothing gets heard or understood and the one making the attacks automatically loses the argument because no one hears what they have to say. They're too busy defending themselves against the attacks.

[Alex01]

This is a thread that had some merit so I will see if I can redirect it or whether the sniping continues.

Obama may have taken office in January but he was an active part of the economic discussions at least from November 2008 forward and was heavily involved in developing economic policies throughout the campaign which begin as early as 2006, well before the recession started. That is why I give little credence to the "timing" arguments. Obama had an opportunity to oppose every one of Bush's spending measures over his second term and to do so in a very public forum. So I do believe he has "owned" the economy from day one. In fact, I think Bush happily handed it over to Obama's transitition team a few weeks early.

What did Obama say the stimulus bill would do? Keep us from going into a depression? If that is the measure, he is right about the result (not necessarily the causation). We are in a deep and prolonged recession rather than a depression. Of course, we weren't teetering on the brink of a depression when he made that dire prediction, either. Economically things weren't even as bad as they were during the Jimmy Carter administration. In fact, economically things were very similar to the late 80s and the Savings and Loans crisis.

What did Obama's supporters say the stimulus bill would do? Everything from pay their car payment, save their house, keep Catepillar jobs in OH, save the US auto industry, and put US astronauts on Mars. Some of those things were said with Obama's approval and some weren't. What did Obama's opponents say it would do? Bankrupt the country, cause huge job losses, direct money toward mice rather than men, mortgage our children's future without providing anyone but politicians with any benefits. Obama and his supporters, of course, denied this would happen.

So far, the only expectations the stimulus bill have lived up to are Obama's (stopped a depression) and some of Obama's opponents (caused massive debt, resulted in higher unemployment).

If you look at my prior postings, I said the stimulus bill would lead to double digit unemployment and that it could lower the US credit rating. We are almost six months down the road and when I look at the economic situation I see unemployment rising, the national debt rising at an extremely high pace, and productivity down so much that the US will be hard pressed to make its debt payments without using short term debt financing. That reinforces my belief that you can't spend your way out of a recession and that Keynesian economics do not work. And it makes me even more hesitant about Obamanomics.

This!