(08/06/09) "Healthcare reform sparks meeting mayhem" (WTSP)

[Spang]

Tampa, Florida-- Fireworks were expected, but organizers of a town hall meeting on health care reform were caught off guard Thursday night by just how explosive the issue became.

Hundreds showed up for the 6:00 forum held at the Children's Board of Hillsborough County on Palm Avenue in Tampa. The auditorium which holds around 250 people, filled up so quickly eventually Tampa Police were ordered to begin turning people away.

Inside, U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor of Tampa and State Rep. Betty Reed barely made it through opening remarks before angry protestors began shouting and interrupting their remarks.

Moments later, violence broke out just outside the main auditorium doors, prompting police to close off the meeting room. A freelance photojournalist was among those roughed up suffering damage to both his glasses and camera equipment.

"That's the most violent anyone has been towards me," said Mark Bishop, who drove from Orlando to video tape the event. "It was surprising to say the least."

At least one person was treated for minor injuries following the altercation and could be seen on video with a shirt partially torn off his body.

Outside, both those for and against President Obama's health care reform ideas chanted and yelled, at times banging on the outside of the auditorium windows. Some argued face to face in the parking lot, shouting and screaming at each other as police officers looked on.

"We walk a fine line between freedom of speech and public safety," said one of the commanding Tampa Police officers on scene who indicated no arrests were made.

Not long into the meeting, Rep. Castor was escorted out of the building after being encouraged by an event organizer to leave. It appeared the congresswoman gave up on trying to get her points across after the crowd inside grew unruly.

Those on all sides of the issue say people were so passionate and outspoken about healthcare reform, it was hard for any one person to speak.

"They think they're exercising their right to free speech, but they're only exercising their right to disrupt civil discourse," said George Guthrie, who drove from Largo to attend Thursday night's meeting.

Andrew Reder, a recent college graduate against Obama's ideas for health care reform, was among those yelling during the meeting.

"There were clearly people who were very, very upset," said Reder, who feels some people were shut out of the meeting. "People are concerned about the direction of the county right now."

But Reder, who eventually made his way inside, admits very little was accomplished in discussing the actual issue.

"Somewhere in all the screaming, no one got heard."

Tampa Police eventually began ordering anyone not inside the meeting, to leave the Children's Board property. Journalists covering the protests outside were among those told they could not stay.

Event organizers say they grossly underestimated the turnout, but plan on rescheduling the event for a bigger venue in the future, in hopes of a more civil discussion where everyone can have their opinion heard.

Anticipating problems at health care forums, Florida Democratic Party Chair Karen Thurman released the following statement today:

"Throughout the summer, we have been reaching out to Floridians to engage in an important debate on the future our health care system. We have heard story after story from people who are struggling to get the care they need. "Recently, their thoughtful discussions are being interrupted by angry mobs - well funded and organized by Washington special interests - attempting to drown out the voices of the hard-working Floridians who are desperate for health insurance reform. These groups are not concerned about Americans' access to quality heath care, but are extreme ideologues, only interested in 'breaking' the President and thwarting the change Americans voted for last November."

The Source (http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=111086&catid=8)

[foxyladi]

debates are always a good thing.however violence is not.

[Spang]

Another source:

Protesters in Ybor City drown out health care summit on Obama's proposal

TAMPA — Bitter divisions over reforming America's health care system exploded Thursday night in Tampa amid cat calls, jeering and shoving at a town hall meeting.

"Tyranny! Tyranny! Tyranny!" dozens of people shouted as U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor, D-Tampa, struggled to talk about health insurance reforms under consideration in Washington, D.C.

"There is more consensus than there is disagreement when you get right down to it,'' Castor offered, immediately drowned out by groans and boos.

She pressed on, mostly unheard among screams from the audience estimated by Tampa police to be about 1,500.

"Tell the truth! Tell the truth!" "Read the bill!" "Forty-million illegals! Forty million illegals!"

The spectacle at the Children's Board in Ybor City sounded more like a wrestling cage match than a panel discussion on national policy, and it was just the latest example of a health care meeting disrupted by livid protesters. Similar scenes are likely to be repeated across the country as lawmakers head to their home districts for the summer recess.

Thursday's forum/near riot was sponsored by state Rep. Betty Reed, D-Tampa, and the Service Employees International Union, who apparently had hoped to hold something of a pep rally for President Barack Obama's health care reform proposal.

Instead, hundreds of vocal critics turned out, many of them saying they had been spurred on through the Tampa 912 activist group promoted by conservative radio and television personality Glenn Beck. Others had received e-mails from the Hillsborough Republican Party that urged people to speak out against the plan and offered talking points.

An overflow crowd of critics was left waiting outside the building — and in some cases pounding on the meeting room doors — while health care reform activists complained that Democrats and union members were guided into the room for prime seats. Tampa police officers maintained control the entire night.

"They can't even run a meeting, and they want to run health care?'' scoffed Kevin Grant, a Tampa printing business owner, standing near someone wielding a "Shame on you America. You sold your soul to the Devil" sign.

The nationally televised images of protesters lashing out at politicians sympathetic to Obama's health care proposal certainly drive home the health care plans' keen opposition. Some Democrats, though, argue that engaged, disruptive protesters only serve to depict the GOP as unwilling to work on solutions.

"These groups are not concerned about Americans' access to quality heath care, but are extreme ideologues, only interested in 'breaking' the president and thwarting the change Americans voted for last November," said state Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman.

Polls show mounting public concern about the nation's debt and deficit, and a CNN poll released this week found 50 percent of those surveyed support the president's plan and 45 percent oppose.

Castor said a strong debate is healthy but suggested that many of the protesters who have shown up at town hall meetings in recent weeks would have staunchly opposed the creation of Medicare and Social Security a few decades ago.

"The insurance industry and … Republican activists are manufacturing a lot of these phony protests,'' said Castor, who has been closely involved in the health care debate and said she won't support any bill lacking a government-run insurance option.

She left before the forum ended, which drew more boos. State Rep. Reed said she encouraged Castor to leave because nobody could hear her anyway.

Protesters said there was nothing phony about their strong showing, just a bubbling of grass roots anger.

"It's the backlash to the arrogance of our government that you're seeing here,'' said Brad Grabill of Temple Terrace.

The Source (http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/article1025529.ece)

[NativeSun]

I'm waiting for the "Don't taser me bro" moment at one of these events. At least people are taking a stand, one side or the other, and not being uninvolved or uninformed with what's going on in Washington. It's stuff like this that keeps members of Congress in line with what their duties are. No PAC money or corporate contribution can get them out of this mess. They have no choice but to answer to their constituents.

[Tybee]

Obama To Supporters: "Argue With Friend and Neighbors Get In Their Face!"



YouTube - Obama To Supporters: "Argue With Friend and Neighbors Get In Their Face!"

[Spang]

Jerr-ry! Jerr-ry! Jerr-ry! Jerr-ry!

[NativeSun]

Obama To Supporters: "Argue With Friend and Neighbors Get In Their Face!"



YouTube - Obama To Supporters: "Argue With Friend and Neighbors Get In Their Face!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eszcEC4sk0o)

Ha! I almost forgot about that one. Maybe you should be a little naughty and forward that to the WH and tell them that someone is wanting the public to be combative with those who oppose their views.

[smiledr]

Inside, U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor of Tampa and State Rep. Betty Reed barely made it through opening remarks before angry protestors began shouting and interrupting their remarks.

Moments later, violence broke out just outside the main auditorium doors,

There are accuasations that Castor called in union supporters to be at the meeting and that people who showed up with signs that were anti-obama or anti- health care were not let in the room. That would make me mad too!

[NativeSun]

There are accuasations that Castor called in union supporters to be at the meeting and that people who showed up with signs that were anti-obama or anti- health care were not let in the room. That would make me mad too!

Why??? No one loves public discourse better than union members. Isn't this the reason they support "Card Check"? :cool:

[smiledr]

Why??? No one loves public discourse better than union members. Isn't this the reason they support "Card Check"? :cool:

They let the union folks in the room but if they suspected that you were not a union guy then they didn't let you in the room.

[NativeSun]

They let the union folks in the room but if they suspected that you were not a union guy then they didn't let you in the room.

What was their barometer? Did they ask the entrants how they felt about being overpaid and underworked?

[Spang]

Castor: Tumult at town hall ‘has strengthened my resolve’ to push for health care reform.

Last night, a town hall hosted by Rep. Kathy Castor (D-FL) was disrupted by an angry mob of protesters, which led to at least one fist fight. But the fracas isn’t deterring Castor’s desire for health care reform:

U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor, the focus of tumultuous reaction at a town hall meeting Thursday night, said in an interview this morning that the event has strengthened her conviction to support health care reform.

“It has strengthened my resolve to stand up for families and seniors,” Castor said. “Floridians are bearing a great burden in health care costs, more than almost any other state.”

“A healthy debate is good, but the rude behavior is not helpful,” she said. “I think it backfires. The response we’re receiving today is pretty overwhelming to speak up for families and bring down the cost of health care.”

Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) had a similar reaction after he was targeted at a town hall by the right. “I am more committed than ever to win approval of legislation to offer more individual choice to access affordable health care,” said Doggett in a statement. “An effective public plan is essential to achieve that goal.”

The Source (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/castor-strengthened/)

[hobbitt]

Why??? No one loves public discourse better than union members. Isn't this the reason they support "Card Check"? :cool:

:thumbsup:

You mean the "Employee Free Choice Act" ??

The one that says - you have the free choice to declare your allegiance to a union by signing a card while the union organizer hands you the card and a pen, and four beefy union officials watch to make sure that you spell your name correctly??

[Spang]

FreedomWorks VP Refuses To Try To ‘Calm Down’ Angry Protesters At Health Care Town Hall Meetings

FreedomWorks, an industry-backed right-wing group led by former GOP congressman Dick Armey, has been heavily engaged in organizing conservatives to ambush Democratic members of Congress supporting health care reform at town halls across the country during the August recess. Its “astroturf” campaign is designed to present the appearance of wide-spread public discontent with health care reform, but the reality is that the town halls have become forums for disruption, extremism and even violence.

Last night on MSNBC, FreedomWorks Vice President Max Pappas boasted about flooding congresspeople’s town hall meetings and “blowing them apart.” “We have about 400,000 on-line members who we can contact with an e-mail database that we have, send them information about when the town halls are, give them briefings on the health care reform plans,” he said.

Pappas was on C-SPAN this morning, and a Republican veteran called in and asked Pappas to “to tell these people to wrap it down.” “We Republicans already have the image of being owned by corporate America. Now we’re getting the image of being owned by wild red-neck America,” the caller complained. But Pappas refused his request, claiming he doesn’t “have the power” to calm down his troops:

PAPPAS: We don’t have the power to control how many people turn out or how they behave there. All we really do is facilitate their participation by letting people know when these town halls are and giving them information about the issues that are going to be discussed The passions are so deep about this issue that we can’t send out an email that says “calm down.”

Another caller who claimed to be from the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) — a group that claims the U.S. is a European country and was founded by a “longtime white-power activist” — praised Pappas. “I want to salute you, you’re a true patriot,” he told Pappas, who later urged the CCC member to join FreedomWorks. “[I]f the caller wants to join FreedomWorks, it’s free. You can sign up on our website and we’ll keep you up to dated on what’s going on on Capitol Hill,” he said.

The Source (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/freedomworks-cspan/)

[Spang]

(No Nudity)

The above video is a recording of a telephone call that the SEIU received from a St. Louis lady today. She’s awfully sweet and polite, until the part where she threatens to shoot and kill members of the SEIU. Her comical last words after this gun-mob threat are, “Stop the violence.” C’mon, selfish mean lady, pick an ethos!

The Source (http://wonkette.com/410382/actual-war-to-happen-in-st-louis-tomorrow)

[Spang]

Anti-Health Care Reform Protester Encourages Physical Violence, Use Of Firearms

Based on the news that health care events are edging into violence, an anti-health care reform protester in New Mexico named Scott Oskay is calling on his hundreds of online followers to bring firearms to town halls, and to 'badly hurt' SEIU and ACORN counter protesters.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/SEIUTweet.png

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/SEIUTweet2.png

Popularized in part by conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, the hashtag symbol he's using, #iamthemob, has gone viral on twitter, appearing several times a minute according to a recent search.

Anti-reform activists have scheduled a protest outside SEIU Missouri offices tomorrow, and officials there are taking these threats seriously.

The Source (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/anti-health-care-reform-protester-encourages-physical-violence-use-of-firearms.php)

[jlynne]

The people protesting a union that is supposed to exist to protect the rights of the people but instead is protecting a political party?

I suppose it is true that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[foxyladi]

The people protesting a union that is supposed to exist to protect the rights of the people but instead is protecting a political party?

I suppose it is true that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

so true

[karate kid x]

According to the gallup poll, most americans are in favor of health care

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/dzku334mt0yniv7cjbdicg.gif

source (http://www.gallup.com/poll/121883/Most-U.S.-Want-Healthcare-Reform-Vary-Urgency.aspx)

[smiledr]

July 23, 2009


Do you have any more recent polling data? I believe that since July the more people learn about the current proposed legislation the more they are against it.

Again, not against health care reform just against this lousy piece of legislation!

[Wyoming Dem]

Just not "This" health Care Reform Legislation . And the wrong questions are being asked...

Have you READ the proposed Health Care Reform Legislation?
Did you understand the proposed Health Care Reform Legislation?
Do you know how the proposed Health Care Reform Legislation will effect you and those you give a crap about?

So asking whether or not people want health care reform is a long way from a blanket endorsement of this lousy proposed legislation.