(Aug 6, 2009): "Pelosi Claims Swastikas at Healthcare Protests and Godwin's Law" (The Jawa Report)

[CGP]

READ IN FULL @ THE JAWA REPORT (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/198351.php)


Kevin Aylward debunks Pelosi's claim. However, scroll down to the very bottom screencap he posts and you will see what appear to be Nazi type SS lightning bolts.

The problem with Pelosi's claim is not that it might not be true. It might, in fact, be true. I've received dozens of emails regarding Obama's health care plans which use Nazi analogies.

The problem is that Pelosi is trying to infer that those protesting Obama's version of health care reform are far right wing radicals: ie, neo-Nazis.

Look, a Swastika, see they must be white supremacists.

It's part of the Democratic narrative: any who oppose Obama are racist, any who oppose his policies are extremists -- organized extremists.

However, look at the pic posted by Kevin carefully. You'll see that the Nazi lightning bolt is used as an "S" and that the last S -- the one that I can see -- is the first letter of "Socialism".

In other words, if protesters are bringing signs with Nazi symbology on them it is likely that they are comparing Pelosi and Obama to Nazis for their socialistic tendencies. For instance, one of the photoshops sent to me by reader Corky.

What we have here is a perfect example of Godwin's law -- also called Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies: As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

If Pelosi saw a sign with a Swastika on it and didn't realize the protester was calling her a Nazi, then she is indeed more stupid and out of touch than I previously thought.

As Gd. Lt and Mongol remind us in the comments, though, the Bush-Nazi analogies came practically every day for 8 years.

Which I think goes to the point of Godwin's law: people make stupid analogies all the time and as arguments become heated they inevitably lead to comparisons with Hitler.

Bush was no Hitler.

Just like Obama is no Hitler. A Jimmy Carter? Yes. And worse. But not a Hitler.

And Allahpundit asks this important question: If it's all an astroturfing campaign, then why send out your operatives with swastika posters?

Of course, the answer is obvious: it isn't an astroturfing campaign.

However, given the number of emails I've been getting over the past two weeks using Nazi analogies and symbology, I wouldn't discount the claim altogether.


Go to link to view the images discussed.

[hobbitt]

This tactic is a popular one. Neither honorable nor laudable, but popular.





Washington Post, Nov 11, 2003
Overnight, Soros, 74, has become the major financial player of the left. He has elicited cries of foul play from the right. And with a tight nod, he pledged: “If necessary, I would give more money.”
“America, under Bush, is a danger to the world,” Soros said. Then he smiled: “And I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is.”
Soros believes a “supremacist ideology” guides this White House. He hears echoes in its rhetoric of his childhood in occupied Hungary. “When I hear Bush say, ‘You’re either with us or against us,’ it reminds me of the Germans.” It conjures up memories, he said, of Nazi slogans on the walls, Der Feind Hort mit (“The enemy is listening”): “My experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule have sensitized me,” he said in a soft Hungarian accent.

[karate kid x]

This tactic is a popular one. Neither honorable nor laudable, but popular.





Washington Post, Nov 11, 2003

Soros is the man! I don't know what he really does, but all the crazy people hate him, he can't be that bad.

[foxyladi]

Nancy :e3:

[TheTaoOfBill]

Aparently pointing out the truth is wrong.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/pelosi-swastikas/

Earlier this week, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) came under heavy criticism from the right wing for her dismissal of the town hall tea parties as nothing but “Astroturf.” She also noted the disturbing fact that participants have been “carrying swastikas and symbols like that.”

The conservative site Wizbang called her claim a “crock.” Rush Limbaugh said that Pelosi was “deranged” and accused her of calling conservatives “Nazis.” He then, however, went on to note the similarities between Democrats and Nazis:

The Speaker of the House accusing people showing up at these town hall meetings of wearing Swastikas — that is not insignificant folks. This woman is deranged. They are unraveling. But that is not insignificant. You have the Democrat Speaker of the House saying that people — citizens — who are concerned about health care are now wearing Swastikas. She’s basically saying that we are Nazis. She is saying that the people who oppose this are Nazis. [...]

This party, the Democrat Party, and where it’s taken this country — the radical left leadership of this party — bears much more resemblance to Nazi policies than anything we on the right believe in at all.

Pelosi did not seem to be calling conservative protesters Nazis, but rather calling attention to the disturbing number of Nazi references at these tea party protests. A few examples:

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/swastikas.jpg

The intent of these displays is to portray Obama as Hitler and his proposals as fascist, and they seem to be following the lead of many right-wing pundits. Just yesterday, Limbaugh said, “Adolf Hitler, like Barack Obama, also ruled by dictate.” Fox News host Glenn Beck — an inspiration for many of these town hall attendees — has said “fascism is on the rise.” Even Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) has talked about the increasing danger in America of “true fascism.”

This August recess isn’t the first time we’ve seen these displays at tea parties either. Signs comparing Obama to Hitler or other global dictators were prominent at the tea parties a few months ago as well.
Update Anti-Defamation League National Director and Holocaust survivor Abraham Foxman put out a statement today criticizing "attempts by some opponents of health care reform to bring Nazi imagery into the debate":

Regardless of the political differences and the substantive differences in the debate over health care, the use of Nazi symbolism is outrageous, offensive and inappropriate. Americans should be able to disagree on the issues without coloring it with Nazi imagery and comparisons to Hitler. This is not where the debate should be at all.

Foxman also criticized Limbaugh's comparison of Democrats to Nazis, saying, "Comparisons to the Nazis are deeply offensive and only serve to diminish and trivialize the extent of the Nazi regime’s crimes against humanity and the murder of six million Jews and millions of others in the Holocaust. I don’t see any comparison here. It’s off-center, off-issue and completely inappropriate.
Update An anti-health reform speaker compared health care reform to Hitler's "Final Solution" at an Americans for Prosperity "Patients First bus tour" event in Colorado earlier this week. After repeating the debunked claim that the health care reform bill would mandate euthanasia, the speaker declared, "Adolf Hitler issued six million end of life orders--he called his program the final solution. I kind of wonder what we're going to call ours."

It's only okay for right wingers to bring up hitler. And pointing out that the right is bringing up hitler way too much is all the sudden Godwin's law. That's not Godwin's law. That's pointing out other people are guilty of Godwin's law.

[Ikasu]

I'm liking Pelosi more and more lately. She's finally showing some spine, something most Democrats don't have.

[CGP]

Aparently pointing out the truth is wrong.


Yes, in politics this is true!

[TheTaoOfBill]

I'm liking Pelosi more and more lately. She's finally showing some spine, something most Democrats don't have.

Yeah. I think all the hate on her lately has really toughened her up!

[CGP]

Yeah. I think all the hate on her lately has really toughened her up!

I don't think she ever wasn't tough!

She's always been tough.

[TheTaoOfBill]

I don't think she ever wasn't tough!

She's always been tough.

I dunno.... to me her decision not to impeach Bush was pretty spineless to me and one of the reasons I decided not to like her very much.

But that matters a lot less to me now that Bush is gone.

[greenleaf]

The problem is that Pelosi is trying to infer that those protesting Obama's version of health care reform are far right wing radicals: ie, neo-Nazis.

This is my problem with Pelosi's statement. She didn't say that a few protesters were using swastikas in anti-nazi signage. She inferred that generally the protesters were carrying swastikas and were, by inference, supportive of facism.
I came here from DU, let's not pretend the left didn't compare Bush to Hitler on a daily basis.
I don't find the comparison appropriate to either Obama or Bush. It's way too extreme a comparison, but both sides of the political debate resort to it anyway. I do, however, find it more offensive for elected leaders to falsely accuse their own constituents of facist extremism. If Speaker Pelosi did not mean to make the inference she should explain herself.

[cindyb]

This is my problem with Pelosi's statement. She didn't say that a few protesters were using swastikas in anti-nazi signage. She inferred that generally the protesters were carrying swastikas and were, by inference, supportive of facism.
I came here from DU, let's not pretend the left didn't compare Bush to Hitler on a daily basis.
I don't find the comparison appropriate to either Obama or Bush. It's way too extreme a comparison, but both sides of the political debate resort to it anyway. I do, however, find it more offensive for elected leaders to falsely accuse their own constituents of facist extremism. If Speaker Pelosi did not mean to make the inference she should explain herself.

I heard President Bush called "Hitler" for years while he was in office.

No one is doing that to Barack, they are just carrying swastika signs with lines slashed through the swastika. They aren't calling him "Hitler" they are expressing disapproval of his policies which they deem facist. I can see the difference.

The hypocrisy is astonishing, maybe it is just human nature to be a hypocrite.

[TheTaoOfBill]

I heard President Bush called "Hitler" for years while he was in office.

No one is doing that to Barack, they are just carrying swastika signs with lines slashed through the swastika. They aren't calling him "Hitler" they are expressing disapproval of his policies which they deem facist. I can see the difference.

The hypocrisy is astonishing, maybe it is just human nature to be a hypocrite.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/swastikas.jpg

[CGP]

No one is doing that to Barack, they are just carrying swastika signs with lines slashed through the swastika. They aren't calling him "Hitler" they are expressing disapproval of his policies which they deem facist. I can see the difference.

The hypocrisy is astonishing, maybe it is just human nature to be a hypocrite.

Cindy, I see some hypocrisy in your quoted comments above.