(08/08/09) "Weekly Address: Necessary Reform, Absurd Attacks" (by Barack Obama, White House Blog & YouTube)

[Spang]

The President of the United States of America

[Wyoming Dem]

"Absurd" attacks..."That's not fair" "They are being mean to me...how old is he? The blah, blah, blah train keeps on rolling and if Barack wants us to believe him, he needs to READ THE DAMN BILL...the entire bill, not Cliff Notes from his staff. And then he needs to look at himself in a mirror and see if he can keep a straight face while peddling this load of crap to the country. And in this photo at the beginning of the video, he sets like he has hemmoirroids or like he took a class on "presidential poise and posture" . He looks ludicrous. That's what happens when a guy who is NOT presidential tries to pretend he is...looks like a store mannekin. Bush was even worse...he had that "deer in the headlights" look that made you know he was sure he was going to say something stupid...again.

[NoFear]

That's what happens when a guy who is NOT presidential tries to pretend he is...looks like a store mannekin.

so...what does being "presidential" look like? Last I checked, he was president.

[cinnamongirl]

"Absurd" attacks..."That's not fair" "They are being mean to me...how old is he? The blah, blah, blah train keeps on rolling and if Barack wants us to believe him, he needs to READ THE DAMN BILL...the entire bill, not Cliff Notes from his staff. And then he needs to look at himself in a mirror and see if he can keep a straight face while peddling this load of crap to the country. And in this photo at the beginning of the video, he sets like he has hemmoirroids or like he took a class on "presidential poise and posture" . He looks ludicrous. That's what happens when a guy who is NOT presidential tries to pretend he is...looks like a store mannekin. Bush was even worse...he had that "deer in the headlights" look that made you know he was sure he was going to say something stupid...again.

You realize it undercuts your point when you start with petty personal attacks, right? That's like if I said "Palin is wrong about X because she doesn't LOOK like someone who could be vice president." But shouting about how Obama looks drowns out your criticism of his reaction to the bill.

Also, what makes someone "look" presidential?

[TheTaoOfBill]

"Absurd" attacks..."That's not fair" "They are being mean to me...how old is he? The blah, blah, blah train keeps on rolling and if Barack wants us to believe him, he needs to READ THE DAMN BILL...the entire bill, not Cliff Notes from his staff. And then he needs to look at himself in a mirror and see if he can keep a straight face while peddling this load of crap to the country. And in this photo at the beginning of the video, he sets like he has hemmoirroids or like he took a class on "presidential poise and posture" . He looks ludicrous. That's what happens when a guy who is NOT presidential tries to pretend he is...looks like a store mannekin. Bush was even worse...he had that "deer in the headlights" look that made you know he was sure he was going to say something stupid...again.

Can you point to something specifically that he lied about?

[foxyladi]

imho anyone should read and understand what they are trying to sell.

[Wyoming Dem]

so...what does being "presidential" look like? Last I checked, he was president.
And that's a damn shame...and IMHO whatever looking Presidential is, Obama makes it look like a stickman with a broom handle up his butt... It just slays me that he reprsents this country..."Howdy Doody" Bush was bad enough but now we have a GUY who looks like he's playing dress-up. He looks so totally "posed"...it really cracks me up.

[Wyoming Dem]

Here is a "list" with comments...PLEASE...if you feel I am biased and being unfair, go read the pages annotated decide for yourself. There are so many instances in this lousy bill and and assurances by this Administration and this Congress they they will not be insinuating themselves in our lives and our health care is a crock of shit and there is NO WAY Obama can pay for this without raising taxes...cannot be done.



Can you point to something specifically that he lied about?


[PG 203 Line 14-15 “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that/QUOTE]...



[QUOTE]PG 22 MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!‎‏
PG 24 Line 116 Government effectively sets prices for ALL private health plans.‎‏
PG 30 Line 123 THERE WILL BE A Government COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.‎‏
PG 37 Line 132 The Government will be reviewing grievances about themselves and will decide on appeals for rejected claims.‎‏
PG 29 Line 4-16 YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!! Additionally you can reference ‎‏
PG 15 Line 19-25.‎‏
PG 42 The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your Health Care Benefits for you. You have no choice!‎‏
PG 50 Line 152 Health Care will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.‎‏
PG 58 Government will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID Health Care Card will be issued!‎‏
PG 59 Line 21-24 Government will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer!‎‏
PG 61 Line 22-24 Congress has no clue what Electronic Medical Records will cost. Asks for estimate.‎‏
PG 62 Protection of Data, Government shows they will have database of your personal & financial info.
‎‏
PG64 L 21-25, ‎‏
PG65 L 1-5
which refers to processing payment transactions by financial institutions‎‏
PG 65 Line 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).‎‏
PG 72 Line 8-14 Government is creating an HealthCare Exchange to bring private HealthCare plans under Government control.‎‏
PG 84 Line 203 Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private. HealthCare plans in the Exchange.‎‏
PG 85 Line 7 Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your HealthCare! #AARP members – your Health care Will be rationed.‎‏
PG 89 Line 6-10 The FAR is not applicable. Government can write contracts any way they want.‎‏
PG 95 Line 8-18
The Gov. will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HealthCare plan.
‎‏
PG 98 Line 8 Americans - You will be paying for others HealthCare while paying for your own.‎‏
PG 100 Line 15-19 The Government Will be using ACORN and other community groups to promoThe & enroll.‎‏
PG 102 Line 12-18 Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.‎‏
PG 109 Line 207 Health Trust Fund. The Government will raise taxes on EVERYONE to fund HealthCare as they see ft. ‎‏
PG 110 Line 7-12 Employment taxes on ALL employers NOT offering Government HealthCare. No choice.‎‏
PG 110 Line 13-18 An excise tax on ALL goods from companies not offering Government HealthCare. ALL Americans pay.‎‏
PG 110 Line 19-24 the Treasury can take $$ from Soc Line to pay HealthCare.‎‏
PG 111 Line 208 The Federal Government will usurp all State powers in State Based HealthCare Exchange. Violation of 10th Amendment.‎‏
PG 119 Line 1-3 establish geographically-adjusted premium rates for public option Can you say ACORN census?‎‏
PG 121 Line 223 PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES. Can you say Government price fixing & monopoly?‎‏
PG 124 Line 24-25 No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.‎‏
PG 126 Line 10-15 The Government can make up prices for anything at anytime for any reason.‎‏
PG 126 Line 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HealthCare for part time employees AND their families.‎‏
PG 127 Line 1-16 Doctors: The Government will tell YOU what you can make.‎‏
PG 129 The public option will be subsidized. Credits = your tax dollars. Redistribution of wealth.‎‏
PG 130 Line 10-23 Federal Government will subsidize State Medicaid = Even Higher State & Federal taxes for ALL.‎‏
PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.‎‏
PG 149 Line 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.‎‏
PG 150 Line 9-13 Biz with payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.‎‏
PG 151 Line 1-3 Aggregate Rules-tax on employers payroll not on public option include payroll of other biz.‎‏
PG 167 Line 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HealthCare according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of inc.‎‏
PG 170 Line 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)‎‏
PG 195 officers & employees of HealthCare Administration (Government) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records.‎‏
PG 198 Line 1-3 1.5% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of 500k to 1mil. Redistribution of Wealth.‎‏
PG 198 Line 4-6 5.4% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of 1mil+. Redistribution of Wealth‎‏
PG 199 Line 1-4 Surtax rates on raised AGAIN on Americans in 2012.‎‏
PG 201 Line 12-19 Government will ignore whatever costs they see ft to show savings. (Cooking the books)‎‏
PG 203 Line 14-15 “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.‎‏
PG 202-215 is a Government rewrite of the tax code ensuring more taxes for EVERYONE, Everywhere.‎‏
PG 239 Line 14-24 Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.‎‏
PG 241 Line 6-8 Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.
‎‏
PG236 L22-25, 237 L1-3 National rate of uninsured defined by Census. Can you say ACORN corruption?‎‏
PG 239 Line 10-12 Medicare DSH payments will be increased. Can you say even higher taxes for all?‎‏
PG 238-249 Line 1121 Doctors-Government mandates your growth, costs, value, services, & income. Welcome to rationing‎‏
PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Dr’s time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans. We’re next.‎‏
PG 260 Line 1125 Fed Government will adjust Medicare Payment Localities for California based on Census. ACORN?‎‏
PG 265 Line 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HealthCare industries.‎‏
PG 268 Line 1141 Fed Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.‎‏
PG 270 Line 1144 Government Mandates that all private ambulatory surgical centers submit cost data & other data‎‏
PG 272 Line 1145 TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!‎‏
PG 276 Line 3-20 Oxygen Equipment & Supply Companies - Government MANDATES you will provide supplies NO MATTER where individual is.‎‏
PG 287 Line 14-25 PROOF that Government will ration HealthCare by mandating waiting periods for readmission.‎‏
PG 298 Line 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission - Government will penalize you.‎‏
PG 303 Line 12-25 Post Acute Care Services Data – Government will collect data including personal information as they see ft.‎‏
PG 304 Line 17-19 BIG ONE HERE: Expedited Data Collection – Chapter 35 o… Read More: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/c5bcfdae ... 6be70918ac‎‏
PG 304 Line 17-19 Government does NOT have to protect your private information, share with anyone, & is not resp Expedited Data Collection - Chapter 35 of Title 44 of USC SHALL NOT APPLY. Folks this gives the govt the right to access your data any way the see ft. Here is link to the chapter: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html Look at number 8 THE GOVT IS SAYING THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO DO THIS!!! (8) ensure that the creation, collection, maintenance, use, dissemination, and disposition of information by or for the Federal Government is consistent with applicable laws, including laws relating to— (A) privacy and confidentiality, including section 552a of title 5; (B) security of information, including section 11332 of title 40 [1] ; and (C) access to information, including section 552 of title 5; ‎‏
PG 306 Line 3-6 The Government can expand the scope & size of Post Acute Program Services anytime & as they see ft.‎‏
PG 313 Line 9-14 Government MANDATES Health Services providers will state ownership, invest, & compensation arrangements. ‎‏
PG 317 Line 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Drs. what/how much they can own.
‎‏
PG 317-318 L 21-25,1-3
PROHIBITION on expansion- Government is mandating hospitals cannot expand.‎‏
PG 318-319 Government is mandating how hospitals & physicians conduct business & investments. We’re next!‎‏
PG 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required.
Can you say ACORN?!!
‎‏
PG 328 Line 1157 Government study disguised. It’s a HealthCare workforce study mandated by law for unionization.
‎‏
PG335 L16-25,‎‏
PG 336-339 Government mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HealthCare the way they want. Rationing. ‎‏
PG 341 Line 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing into Government plan.‎‏
PG 354 Line 1177 Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!‎‏
PG 355-369 Line 1181 Government disguises tax on Drug Companies as rebate to Government to subsidize Drugs. We pay in the end.
‎‏
PG 379 Line 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HealthCare by phone?‎‏
PG 399 If your a subsidy eligible individual under Medicare part D and you don’t enroll, the Government will auto enroll you.‎‏
PG 401 Section 1221 Americans will fund Medicare Language & Translation Services Program.
Can you say MORE taxes?
‎‏
PG 404 Lines 12-16 Government exempts itself again from - Chap 35 of title 44, USC including privacy of Americans.‎‏
PG 404 Lines 17-19 Government doesn’t know the cost of Language services but states that money is there.‎‏
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult.
Tink Senior Citizens end of life.
‎‏
PG 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty.
Mandatory!
‎‏
PG425 L22-25, 426 L1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.‎‏
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.‎‏
PG 429 Lines 1-9 An “advance care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.‎‏
PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government.‎‏
PG 429 Lines 13-25 The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
Logan’s Run anyone?
‎‏
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.‎‏
PG 432 Lines 18-21 The Government will publish “quality measures” for individual’s end of life in Federal Register.‎‏
PG 434 Section 1234 Military Active, Reservists, Families - If you’re not enrolled in Tricare it is mandated.‎‏
PG 434 Section 1234 Military Active, Reservists, Families - Once HealthCare bill is passed your premiums will go up.‎‏
PG 438 Section 1236 The Government will develop a patient decision making aid program that you & Dr. WILL use.‎‏
PG 443 Lines 7-24
Government at taxpayers expense test out an “Accountable Care Org” program (Government doesn’t have plan.)
‎‏
PG 444 Lines 1-6 Government’s Accountable Care Program will mandate services & infrastructure thru reward/penalty system.‎‏
PG 448 Lines 4-17 Government will set performance targets for ALL Accountable Care Organizations including private.‎‏
PG 455 Lines 3-4 Government exempts itself from Chapter 35, Title 44 Paperwork Reduction & Citizens Privacy Protection Act‎‏
PG 460 Section 1302 Knock Knock - It’s the Government and I’m here with the Medical Home Program - YOUR home.‎‏
PG 460 Section 1302 The Government WILL provide medical services in your home.
Paging Nurse Pelosi!!
‎‏
PG 464 Lines 17-22
Independent Patient Center Home Medical Services - Drs. don’t have to be at your home just some directed by D
‎‏
PG 469 Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!? Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED Organization - 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization Like ACORN?‎‏
PG 476 19-20 Chapter 35/ title 44, (Privacy of personal records) shall not apply Home Medical Services. ACORN ACCESS‎‏
PG 489 Section 1308 Government will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.‎‏
PG 494-498 Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.‎‏
PG 502 Section 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research Established. -
Hello Big Brother - Literally.
‎‏
PG 502 Line 5-18 Government builds the “Center” to conduct, support, & synthesize research to define our HealthCare Services.‎‏
PG 503 Line 13-19 Government will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic medical records.‎‏
PG 503 Line 21-25 Government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the US including your data.‎‏
PG 504 Line 6-10 The “Center” will collect data both published & unpublished (that means public & your privaThe info)‎‏
PG 506 Line 19-21 The Center will recommend policies that would allow for public access of data‎‏
PG 518 Line 21-25 The Commission will have input from HealthCare consumer reps -
Can you say unions & ACORN?
‎‏
PG 524 18-22 Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund set up. More taxes for ALL.
‎‏
PG 525-620 deals with the Government basically taking over nursing homes, ‎‏
PGs 525-620 deals with the Govt basically taking over nursing homes, long-term care facilities (think assisted living) through regulations of the facilities, the owners of sd facilities, the employees of sd facilities and even the land owners of that sd facilities reside on. Additionally as you read these 90+ pages you can come to the conclusion that any Health related services will be determined and rationed by the Govt for our senior citizens and others in nursing homes. This one post should do enough to raise awareness of the control the Govt is exerting over the older population of American citizens.
‎‏
PG 620 Line 1-9 The Government will define, prioritize, and nationalize your Health Care Services.‎‏
PG 621 Lines 20-25
Government will define what Quality means in HealthCare.
Since when does Government know about quality?
‎‏
PG 622 Lines 2-9 To pay for the quality Standards Government will transfer $$ from to other Government Trust Funds. More Taxes.
‎‏
PG 624 “Quality” measures shall be designed to assess outcomes & functional status of patients.‎‏
PG 628 Section 1443 Government will give “Multi-Stake Holders” Pre-Rule Making input into Selection of “Quality” Measures.‎‏
PG 630 9-24/631 1-9 Those Multi-stake holder groups including Unions & groups like ACORN deciding HealthCare quality.‎‏
PG 632 Lines 14-25 The Government may implement any “Quality measure” of HealthCare Services as they see ft.
‎‏
PG 633 14-25/ 634 1-9
The Secretary may issue non-endorsed “Quality Measures” for Physician Services & Dialysis Services.‎‏
PG 635 - 653 Physicians Payments Sunshine Provision - Government wants to shine sunlight on Docs but not Government.‎‏
PG 654-659 Public Reporting on Health Care-Associated Infections - Looks okay.‎‏
PG 660-671 Doctors in Residency - Government will tell you where your residency will be, thus where you’ll live.‎‏
PG 676-686 Government will regulate hospitals in EVERY aspect of residency programs, including teaching hospitals.‎‏
PG 686-700 Increased Funding to Fight Waste, Fraud, and Abuse.
You mean the Government with an $18 mil website?
‎‏
PGs 701-704 Section 1619 If your part of HealthCare plan that isn’t in Government HealthCare Exchange but you qualify for Federal aid, no payment.‎‏
PG 705-709 SEC. 1128 If Secretary gets complaints (ACORN) on HealthCare provider or supplier, Government can do background check.
‎‏
PG 711 Lines 8-14 The Secretary has broad powers to deny HealthCare providers/suppliers admittance into HealthCare Exchange.
‎‏
PG 719-720 Section 1637
ANY Doctor who orders durable medical equipment or home medical services MUST be enrolled in Medicare.‎‏
PG 722 Section 1639
Government Mandates Doctors must have face-to-face with patient to certify patient for Home Health Services.
‎‏
PG 724 Lines 16-22 Government reserves right to apply face-to-face certification for patient to ANY other HealthCare service.
‎‏
PG 724 23-25 ‎‏
PG 725 1-5
The same Government certifications will apply to Medicaid & CHIP (your kids)‎‏
PG 735 lines 16-25 For law enforcement purposes, the Secretary of Health & Human Services will give Attorney General access to ALL data.‎‏
PG 740-757 Government sets guidelines for subsidizing the uninsured
(That’s your tax dollars peeps)
‎‏
PG 757-762 Fed Government will shift burden of payments to Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) to States. (Taxes)Page 763 1-8 No DS/EA hospitals will be paid unless they provide services without regard to national origin‎‏
PG 765 Section 1711 Government will require Preventative Services including vaccines. (Choice?)‎‏
PG 768 Section 1713 Government - Nurse Home Visitation Services (Hello union paybacks)‎‏
PG 769 3-5 Nurse Home Visit Services - “increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.”
Government Abortions anyone?
‎‏
PG 769 11-14 Nurse Home Visit Services include-economic self-sufficiency, employment advancement, school-readiness.‎‏
PG 769 3-5
Nurse Home Visit Services - “increasing birth intervals between pregnancies.”
Government ABORTIONS anyone?
‎‏
PG 770 SEC 1714 Federal Government mandates eligibility for State Family Planning Services. Say abortion & State Sovereign.‎‏
PG 789-797 Government will set & mandate drug prices, controlling which drugs will brought to market.
Bye innovation
‎‏
PGs 797-800 SEC. 1744
PAYMENTS for grad medical education. The government will now control Drs education.‎‏
PG 801 Sec 1751 The Government will decide which Health care conditions will be paid. Say RATION!‎‏
PG 810 SEC. 1759. Billing Agents, clearinghouses, etc. required to register. Government takes over privaThe payment system. Page 820-824 Sec 1801 Government will identify individuals ineligible for subsidies. Will access all personal finances.‎‏
PG 824-829 SEC. 1802. Government Sets up Comparative Effectiveness Research Trust Fund. Another tax black hole.‎‏
PG 829-833
Government will impose a fee on ALL private health insurance plans including self insured to pay for Trust Fund!
‎‏
PG 835 11-13 fees imposed by Government for Trust Fund shall be treated as if they were taxes.‎‏
PG 838-840 Government will design & implement Home Visitation Program for families with young kids & families expecting kids.‎‏
PG 844-845 This Home Visitation Program includes Government coming into your house & telling you how to parent!!!‎‏
PG 859 Government will establish a Public Health Fund at a cost of $88,800,000,000. Yes that’s Billion.‎‏
PG 865 The Government will MANDATHE the establishment of a National Health Service Corps.‎‏
PG 865 to 876 The NHS Corps is a program where Drs. perform mandatory HealthCare for 2 years for part loan repayment.‎‏
PG 876-892 The Government takes over the education of our Medical students and Drs.‎‏
PG 898 The Government will establish a Public Health Workforce Corps. to ensure supply of public health professionals.‎‏
PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of offers of Regular & Reserve Corps of Service.‎‏
PG 898 The Public health workforce corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.‎‏
PG 900 The Public Health Workforce Corps includes veterinarians.‎‏
PG 901
The Public Health Workforce Corps WILL include commissioned Regular & Reserve Officers. HealthCare Draft?
‎‏
PG 910 The Government will develop, build & run Public Health Training Centers.‎‏
PG 913-914 Government starts a HealthCare affirmative action program thru guise of diversity scholarships.‎‏
PG 915 SEC. 2251. Government MANDATES Cultural & linguistic competency training for HealthCare professionals.‎‏
PG 932 The Government will establish Preventative & Wellness Trust fund - intial cost of $30,800,000,000-Billion.‎‏
PG 935 21-22 Government will identify specific goals & objectives for prevention & wellness activities.
Control You!!
‎‏
PG 936
Government will develop “Healthy People & National Public Health Performance Standards”
Tell me what to eat?
‎‏
PG 942 Lines 22-25 More Government? Offices of Surgeon General -Public Health Services, Minority Health, Women’s Health‎‏
PG 950- 980 BIG Government core public health infrastructure includes workforce capacity, lab systems; health information systems, etc‎‏
PG 993 Government will establish school based health clinics.
Your kids won’t have a chance.
‎‏
PG 994 School Based Health Clinic will be integrated into the school environment.
Say Government Brainwash!
‎‏
PG 1001 The Government will establish a National Medical Device Registry.
Will you be tracked?
‎‏
PG 1003 9-11 National Medical Dev Reg ‘‘(iii) other postmarked device surveillance activities” you WILL be tracked.‎‏
PG 1018 States give up some of their State Sovereignty.

[Spang]

Here is a "list" with comments...

This "list" has already been debunked.

[Wyoming Dem]

This "list" has already been debunked.
Well as I read it...and I re-read the proposed legislation, I believe most of it to be true...Why do you think it isn't? Who debunked it? Obama or the Congress? Why is their word more important than anyone else? The page numbers are given..go look yourself. And see...that's the problem with the whole thing...too much left open to interpetation, too much speculation and no details. I just can't waste any more of my time getting people to try to read it who have made up their minds because "Obama says so". SPang, do you think I would waste this much time if I truly did not believe it was crap? OF COURSE I want healthcare for everyone and I would like to think we could do that rationally and without bankrupting the country or raising taxes
which by the by, I still have to pay whether I live in this country or not... but it is not possible. And for Obama and this COngress to try to sell the AMerican people that load of fertilizer is reprehensible.
You believe what you want and I will believe what my own eyes read and that is just the way it's going to have to be. But I will continue to alert every single person I speak to that for their own damn sake, they better go read it.

[karate kid x]

PG 22 MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!‎‏


page 22 MANDATES nothing, if you took a look at page 21, page 22 specifies the details of a study that will be done regarding employer health insurance plans.


PG 24 Line 116 Government effectively sets prices for ALL private health plans.‎‏


That's Section 116, and a "qualified health benefits plan" does not necessarily mean all private health plans, but it does include the public option
a) IN GENERAL.—A qualified health benefits plan
19 shall meet a medical loss ratio as defined by the Commis20
sioner. For any plan year in which the qualified health
21 benefits plan does not meet such medical loss ratio, QHBP
22 offering entity shall provide in a manner specified by the
23 Commissioner for rebates to enrollees of payment suffi24
cient to meet such loss ratio.



PG 30 Line 123 THERE WILL BE A Government COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.‎‏


It is clear that SECTION 123 outlines what the government will pay for, which is only common sense.


PG 37 Line 132 The Government will be reviewing grievances about themselves and will decide on appeals for rejected claims.‎‏


who ever said that decisions would not be made on appeals for rejected claims?


PG 29 Line 4-16 YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!! Additionally you can reference ‎‏
PG 15 Line 19-25.‎‏


be sure to check between pages 8 and 9 for Cost sharing. The section you point to sets MINIMUM coverage(starts before page 29) and sets a maximum on PREMIUMS AND COPAYS


PG 42 The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your Health Care Benefits for you. You have no choice!‎‏



what kind of choice do you mean? do you mean you want to have the choice to be able to get benefits for cosmetic plastic surgery?
DUTIES.—The Commissioner is responsible for
5 carrying out the following functions under this division:
6 (1) QUALIFIED PLAN STANDARDS.—The estab7
lishment of qualified health benefits plan standards
8 under this title, including the enforcement of such
9 standards in coordination with State insurance regu10
lators and the Secretaries of Labor and the Treas11
ury.

[Wyoming Dem]

And there is the problem...you read one thing and I read another and because this proposed legislation is so ambiguous it could end up as something neither of us recognizes. When it takes 1018 pages to "outline"" a bill, it is not succinct enough, does not provide enough details and leaves everything to the discretion of the government. All I have said from day one is give us a bill that EVERYONE can understand, that clearly defines the rules, costs and eligibilty and lays it out in something besides government-speak and then let the people decide and so help me...if Obama and Congress does that, and the public thinks it's a great plan,. I will shut my big fat mouth and never bitch about the subject of health care again, especially here on this forum. But the current proposed legislation does not do that and most people are NEVER going to read 1018 pages and without sounding snobbish, most people will not be able to understand the legal terms used (and I will include myself in that group, at least on some of it which I read 5 times and still don't understand.)

I want people in this country to have first rate health care at a cost they can afford and I want the Government to be efficient (:eek:) and unobtrusive and not bankrupt this country providing it and the plain truth>>> maybe that is just impossible. All I know is this proposed legislation as written is terrible...terrible for patients, terrible for physicians & terrible for this countries budget and I hope that, if we are finally going to do this, we do it right. That is all I want. DO IT RIGHT. ANd I am about through debating this issue...Need to get my mind in a fine place for traveling to Egypt and let the chips fall where they may...Thanks for not calling me a Right Wing Bastard-ette Karate Kid!:laughing:

[karate kid x]

And there is the problem...you read one thing and I read another and because this proposed legislation is so ambiguous it could end up as something neither of us recognizes. When it takes 1018 pages to "outline"" a bill, it is not succinct enough, does not provide enough details and leaves everything to the discretion of the government. All I have said from day one is give us a bill that EVERYONE can understand, that clearly defines the rules, costs and eligibilty and lays it out in something besides government-speak and then let the people decide and so help me...if Obama and Congress does that, and the public thinks it's a great plan,. I will shut my big fat mouth and never bitch about the subject of health care again, especially here on this forum. But the current proposed legislation does not do that and most people are NEVER going to read 1018 pages and without sounding snobbish, most people will not be able to understand the legal terms used (and I will include myself in that group, at least on some of it which I read 5 times and still don't understand.)

I want people in this country to have first rate health care at a cost they can afford and I want the Government to be efficient (:eek:) and unobtrusive and not bankrupt this country providing it and the plain truth>>> maybe that is just impossible. All I know is this proposed legislation as written is terrible...terrible for patients, terrible for physicians & terrible for this countries budget and I hope that, if we are finally going to do this, we do it right. That is all I want. DO IT RIGHT. ANd I am about through debating this issue...Need to get my mind in a fine place for traveling to Egypt and let the chips fall where they may...Thanks for not calling me a Right Wing Bastard-ette Karate Kid!:laughing:

with the exception of the part with section 116, every part of the health care bill i pointed out there seemed quite explicit to me.

[foxyladi]

i can't understand the big legal words either.

[PA_Voter]

The biggest flaw is anyone who has insurance through their employer WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE ABLE TO KEEP THEIR DOCTOR (that they like). The reason is the government has no responsibility to be competitive with Private insurers and will UNDERCUT the rates. YOUR EMPLOYER, NOT YOU gets to decide which plan they will pay for. So let's just say the Public Option costs $300/month per employee and Insurance Co X costs $400/month per employee. Your Employer may just choose to change the insurance to the Public Option and you're stuck with whatever the government decides that coverage is! If their goal is to have a single-payer system, my fear is that this scheme will work within a few years; and, then the government will have their hand in all aspects of your healthcare. If our government had a great performance record that would be one thing, but unfortunately I'm not buying into that they can run anything effectively. So everyone will pay for all of this through your taxes; and, you will give up the freedom of choice when it comes to your health.

[TheTaoOfBill]

And there is the problem...you read one thing and I read another and because this proposed legislation is so ambiguous it could end up as something neither of us recognizes. When it takes 1018 pages to "outline"" a bill, it is not succinct enough, does not provide enough details and leaves everything to the discretion of the government. All I have said from day one is give us a bill that EVERYONE can understand, that clearly defines the rules, costs and eligibilty and lays it out in something besides government-speak and then let the people decide and so help me...if Obama and Congress does that, and the public thinks it's a great plan,. I will shut my big fat mouth and never bitch about the subject of health care again, especially here on this forum. But the current proposed legislation does not do that and most people are NEVER going to read 1018 pages and without sounding snobbish, most people will not be able to understand the legal terms used (and I will include myself in that group, at least on some of it which I read 5 times and still don't understand.)

I want people in this country to have first rate health care at a cost they can afford and I want the Government to be efficient (:eek:) and unobtrusive and not bankrupt this country providing it and the plain truth>>> maybe that is just impossible. All I know is this proposed legislation as written is terrible...terrible for patients, terrible for physicians & terrible for this countries budget and I hope that, if we are finally going to do this, we do it right. That is all I want. DO IT RIGHT. ANd I am about through debating this issue...Need to get my mind in a fine place for traveling to Egypt and let the chips fall where they may...Thanks for not calling me a Right Wing Bastard-ette Karate Kid!:laughing:

It's written that way so there can be no way of mistaking what the law says. The only people who would mistake what it says are the people who aren't qualified to read and interpret these laws.

[foxyladi]

reading them is ok interpenetrating them..nother story

[TheTaoOfBill]

What would be nice is if the government had a program that not only released the bill to the public but also released a bullet-point summary of what the bill is intended to do. And the bullet points would be organized in the same way the actual bill is and there would be reference marks pointing to where the bill states what is bulleted.

[foxyladi]

thats a good idea.:thumbsup: