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View Full Version : (9/20/09) The CIA did its job (Miami Herald - John Yoo) Interesting comparison regarding Obama and Carter


VotingHillary
09-20-2009, 08:07 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1241201.html

A young, fresh face campaigns for the presidency by attacking the CIA: "Our government should justify the character and moral principles of the American people, and our foreign policy should not short-circuit that for temporary advantage,'' he says. He promises to never "do anything as president that would be a contravention of the moral and ethical standards that I would exemplify in my own life as an individual.''

He wins the election and begins to decimate the intelligence agencies. Barack Obama? No. Jimmy Carter.

The Carter administration's national-security record should not serve as a model for any president. But unless Obama changes course, he risks duplicating the intelligence disasters of the '70s, and endangering the nation.

Last month, the president and Attorney General Eric Holder Jr. launched a destructive investigation into the CIA's detention and interrogation of al Qaeda leaders. Several detainees were directly involved with the planning and execution of the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. They were captured at a time when our government feared a second wave of attacks.

Our nation's leaders made the difficult decision to use coercive interrogation methods to learn as quickly as possible what these hardened al Qaeda operatives knew. As one of many government lawyers who worked on these counterterrorism programs, I know the terrible pressure of time and events in the months after 9/11.

Knowledgeable officials expected that al Qaeda would try again -- soon -- and in a more devastating fashion. But fair-minded people should take heart that there has been no follow-up attack in the United States. Several plots have been foiled, and the terrorists are on the run. This was not the result of luck -- it is because of the hard work of members of the military and our intelligence agencies.

Their reward is an open-ended investigation, and in some instances the disturbing reopening of cases closed by career prosecutors. Others have written about the financial ruin in store for agents and analysts whose focus will shift from the enemy to their legal bills. What has gone less well understood is what the investigation will do to the CIA as an institution at a time when it serves as the nation's eyes and ears and, sometimes, the sword and shield, during war against a shadowy, covert enemy.

The Carter presidency serves as a warning. Carter came to office determined to clean house. He and his CIA director, Adm. Stansfield Turner, fell in love with technical means of intelligence-gathering, such as the real-time photos sent by reconnaissance satellites. They saw little need for information gathered by spies and informants. Turner promptly took a buzz saw to the division in charge of covert operations, eliminating 820 positions out of 4,730.

The message was clear, and as a result CIA agents became risk-averse. America's ability to gather human intelligence and conduct covert operations swiftly fell apart. The CIA failed to predict the fall of the shah. Iranian students -- one of them now the president of Iran -- took U.S. Embassy officials hostage. A covert operation to rescue them failed miserably, killing eight Americans.

The effects of this decimation of our intelligence capabilities continue. The intelligence agencies failed to stop the 9/11 attacks and do not appear to have penetrated al Qaeda's leadership. As the Silberman-Robb Commission reported in 2005, the intelligence community's estimates on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were almost totally mistaken. The cause was not political pressure, according to the commission, but the CIA's lack of spies in Iraq, its inability to analyze what little information it collected and Saddam Hussein's intent to deceive his own generals and Iran as to his arsenal.

Even the most fervent antiwar activists should welcome an effective intelligence service. If the CIA had accurately judged Iraq's lack of WMD in 2003, the war might not have occurred. If the CIA had decapitated al Qaeda's leadership in the 1990s (the plans were vetoed by President Bill Clinton), the 9/11 attacks may have been headed off.

All intelligence involves probabilities and educated guesses, but effective intelligence can actually provide the information needed to avoid costly wars.

Henry L. Stimson, secretary of state under President Herbert Hoover, once explained the shuttering of the United States' only code-breaking unit with these words: "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail.'' Unfortunately, we do not live in a world of gentlemen. Stimson realized this in his next cabinet post, as FDR's secretary of war on the day of Japan's surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.

Persecuting the CIA risks another surprise attack or major intelligence failure.

John Yoo is a columnist for The Philadelphia Inquirer and a former Bush administration Justice Department official; he teaches law at the University of California, Berkeley.

We kept warning....Obama is going to be Carter, Part 2. Those that don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

foxyladi
09-21-2009, 01:04 PM
our enemy.s are no gentleman.[-X[-X

TheTaoOfBill
09-21-2009, 01:08 PM
our enemy.s are no gentleman.[-X[-X

Being civil does not mean being nice. It simply means treating enemies like human beings. Being civil can win wars. Being savage can unite entire regions against us.

By using civil interrogation techniques we've often been able to get captors to completely turn on their militant friends because they realized we treat them better than their own kind. We cannot win guerrilla warfare without the help of civilians. And if word spreads that we are torturing their people they aren't going to be helping us.

Just like we wouldn't help any nation that tortures our citizens. Even if those American citizens are international criminals. They are still our people.

NoFear
09-21-2009, 01:22 PM
Too bad John Yoo is an idiot

tracker
09-21-2009, 01:37 PM
Leave the CIA alone as far as persecuting or prosecuting goes. Hold appropriate hearings to find out what may have gone wrong so it can be corrected.

Ikasu
09-21-2009, 01:40 PM
Consider the source. John Yoo is trying to save his own reputation.

TheTaoOfBill
09-21-2009, 01:45 PM
Leave the CIA alone as far as persecuting or prosecuting goes. Hold appropriate hearings to find out what may have gone wrong so it can be corrected.

We know what went wrong. People tortured. Torture is against the law. They knew this so they destroyed evidence.

Correcting it would be to find the people responsible and give them fire them and charge them with a federal crime.

tracker
09-21-2009, 02:39 PM
We know what went wrong. People tortured. Torture is against the law. They knew this so they destroyed evidence.

Correcting it would be to find the people responsible and give them fire them and charge them with a federal crime.

Oh, yes and this will certainly give the CIA credibility for the future. And agents will be reluctant to eagerly and proactively pursue intelligence. Fear of being prosecuted is a big deterrent to effective activity. How were people tortured and what evidence was destroyed? Link?

cindyb
09-21-2009, 02:57 PM
Even John McCain says Waterboarding is torture. I take his word for it.

Kbentleyis
09-21-2009, 03:01 PM
Not worth the counter argument.

TheTaoOfBill
09-21-2009, 03:30 PM
Oh, yes and this will certainly give the CIA credibility for the future. And agents will be reluctant to eagerly and proactively pursue intelligence. Fear of being prosecuted is a big deterrent to effective activity. How were people tortured and what evidence was destroyed? Link?

You mean agents will be reluctant to break the law? Sounds like a good thing to me.

And have you been under a rock during all this torture talk? The CIA has water-boarded hundreds of times during the war on terror and they destroyed tapes of the interrogations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/us/03inquire.html

sojourner
09-21-2009, 04:24 PM
Too bad John Yoo is an idiot

Thanks for raising the level of the debate.

tracker
09-21-2009, 04:39 PM
You mean agents will be reluctant to break the law? Sounds like a good thing to me.

And have you been under a rock during all this torture talk? The CIA has water-boarded hundreds of times during the war on terror and they destroyed tapes of the interrogations.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/us/03inquire.html

I have mixed emotions about actually trying people for this. Most likely the underlings will take the fall. Who knows what orders they may have been given.

I think a prudent way to handle this would be to tell the military, CIA and other possible interrogators that waterboarding will not be tolerated from now on and it could result in criminal prosecution.

The times after 9/11 were unique and anxiety-ridden. The people who flew those planes into the Twin Towers at the behest of Bin Laden had no concern for what is legal or illegal obviously. Sometimes in extreme circumstances such as this, certain things might be considered reasonable.

I'm not defending waterboarding. Just saying that we should move forward and let it be known it won't be tolerated anymore!