Change My Mind - An Ohio Voter [Archive]

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kitchlady

03-01-2008, 11:27 AM

Tesstown

03-01-2008, 03:09 PM

I'm glad you asked! We all have so many reasons for supporting Hillary over Obama it's hard to name them all.

Re: The economy - I can empathize with your partner because during the 1st recession of the Bush administration I was downsized and spent 18 months agressively job hunting. And I have an excellent resume too. I'm still recovering from that. I think we are all tired of the Bush economy. As president, Hillary will work to lower taxes for the middle class, work very hard (as she always has) to reduce the huge burden of healthcare costs and make it available to everyone, address the housing market crisis by helping homeowners facing foreclosure and not just bailing out the banks, and introducing a Strategic Energy Fund to research alternative energy sources. She will reinstate sound, disciplined fiscal policy to balance the budget and ensure we aren't spending more than we can afford.

Re: Gay/Lesbian issues, Hillary voted against the ridiculous Federal Marriage Amendment defining marriage as between a woman and man only (oh sure, let's just write hate into our constitution!), supports the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell for gays in the military, and will work to outlaw employment discrimination. The Human Rights Campaign rates her an 89 out of 100 on G/L issues, same as Obama but read on for why I still think she's the better choice.

Re: Iraq War - This is a VERY important issue to me. I marched my feet off in the 10 months leading up to the attack, traveling to DC and NY. I have not stopped being angry about all the lives being lost as we speak, both American and Iraqi. I think the architects of this horrendous crime should be held responsible, but first we must get our troops home. Hillary has a 3-step plan for Iraq. First, redeployment of our troops beginning within the first 60 days of taking office. Second, stability in Iraq. And third, engage our allies in ongoing diplomacy in Iraq. These are all too detailed to get into here, but they are very full plans.

The main reason I believe Hillary has the advantage over Obama in these and the other issues is this: she has the experience and strength to get these things done. Hillary has served on the Armed Services Committee, improved healthcare throughout her entire career, and has worked for civil rights and equality since she was about 13 years old, going around neighborhoods knocking on doors supporting civil rights candidates (believe me, that's not what I was doing at 13!). And she has the track record to work in a bipartisan way to ensure her plans get through Congress and take effect. Great ideas and rhetoric are nothing if you can't be effective in implementing your plans. And though Obama has ideas too, I honestly believe he does not have the strength, experience or ability to be effective. Senator Clinton has these in abundance, and that's why she has my support.

I hope this has helped you make your decision, and that you will cast your vote for Hillary on Tuesday! Feel free to email me if you have more questions.

-Tess

Judy Acosta Smith

03-01-2008, 03:58 PM

Read, "Women, where are you?"

GoHillary

03-01-2008, 04:11 PM

I think my biggest issue with Obama is his voting record. If you want someone who can talk a good game, but doesn't actually do anything, then Obama is your man. If you want someone who actually does what she sets out to do, then Hillary is your woman. Since taking office in 2005, Obama has not voted 67% of the time on abortion issues, 75% of the time on agriculture issues, 50% of the time on Civil Liberties/Civil Rights, 50% of the time on Education, 50% of the time on Family and Children Issues, all of the time or 100% on Federal, State and Local relations, 50% of the time on Foreign Aid & Policy Issues, 60% of the time on Health issues, all of the time or 100% on Housing and Property Issues, all of the time, or 100% on Reproductive Issues, 50% of the time on Technology Issues, 63% of the time on Transportation issues, 80% of the time on Welfare and Poverty Issues, all of the time or 100% on Indigenous People issues, and all of the time or 100% of the time on Women's Issues.

With that said, I will not say that Hillary has voted 100% of the time on everything, but her record of voting, is by far higher than Obamas; Hillary has only not voted around 20% of the time. This also doesn't take into account the time that Obama was in the Illinois legislature that he voted Present. I just think that rather than have a voting record on the tough stuff, he just opts for the easy route, and then comes back later with the whole, "I didn't vote for it" routine. I want someone in office who is willing to actually put themselves out there, to show what they stand for, and not just talk.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Vote4Freedom

03-01-2008, 04:16 PM

I think my biggest issue with Obama is his voting record. If you want someone who can talk a good game, but doesn't actually do anything, then Obama is your man.

Your right! He is too new to the seen.. His voting record is terrible and I see a lot of the time he does not even vote. Whats up with that?

CGP

03-01-2008, 04:23 PM

Thanks for your question.

For a general overview , please see this topic which lists 11 reasons why I cannot and will not ever support Obama.
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=421

In relation to the questions you ask, see below for my reponses. I have added a few links for additional information you may wish to look at.

1. ECONOMY

Clinton has the superior economic policy. She has a more detailed understanding of how the economy works and what needs to happen in order to re-establish this country’s financial power in an increasingly globalized marketplace. She is particularly concerned about housing foreclosures and if elected will place a temporary moratorium on any future foreclosures to allow time for the government to get to the bottom of what is really going on. Please also not that Obama’s economic policy received a “failing” grade from a respected economist basically because Obama copied his economic policy from Clinton (see link below). Need I say anymore? His ideas are not original, and like the majority of his campaign, he relies on the ideas of others and does not believe in crediting his sources it seems! A final point, in relation to NAFTA see the media report below which document Obama’s flip-flop on this issue – stating in the Ohio debate that he would exit NAFTA if Canada didn’t agree to certain changes but at the same time having one of his aides tell Canada “don’t wory, that won’t happen”. Hypocrisy.

Mad Money Perspective - Clinton's policy superior
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=465

Plagiarized Economic Policy
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=149&highlight=political+plagiarism

NAFTA & Obama's flip flop
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=445

2. LGBT ISSUES

As a gay man myself, this is an easy one. Refer to the list of articles below and that should be enough to convince why I would NEVER vote for this man. In 2004 he refused to be photographed with the Mayor of San Francisco who at that time was authorizing gay marriages – does that make you feel supported??? And then in 2007 (Oct) Obama invited a well-known gay-hating homophobe Donnie McClurkin to his campaign events. Now Obama is placing ads to gay publications trying to win votes! This would have been like Hillary inviting a member of the KKK to her campaign events and then placing "vote for me" ads in BET or Vibe magazine!. Obama's actions on this issue are disgraceful! Also bear in mind that Obama attends a church which is highly against homosexuality. Obama's recent “support” of the LGBT community is motivated by ONE factor – a desire to con you into voting for him. Please don’t fall for it. He is a complete opportunist!

Obama's Anti-Gay Politics
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=105

3. IRAQ WAR & INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

Firstly, Obama has ZERO moral authority on this issue. He was not in the US Senate when this issue was voted on way back and therefore he is not in any position to reasonably critique the decisions of those who were required to take RESPONSIBILITY and make a choice one way or the other. Since his time in the senate Obama has not expressed any real opposition to the Iraq War and has voted in the same manner as Hillary has in terms of authorizing war funding. As such, his “anti-war” stance is completely lacking in substance. In terms of ending the war and getting out of Iraq, Clinton has more measured and informed approach to doing this. With Obama’s plan the risk of post-departure DISASTERS in Iraq is significantly greater. In terms of international relations and working with other leaders again Clinton is the superior candidate. During her time as First Lady she visited more than 80 countries, worked on major international activities such as the peace process in Northern Ireland, the conflicts in the Balkans and advocated for women’s rights around the world. So in both ending the Iraq War and engaging in diplomacy with international leaders I think that Clinton is by far the stronger candidate.

Obama anti-war?!
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=366
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kkGGqufu2c&feature=related

VoteSmart

03-01-2008, 04:58 PM

....should be key point one, Kitchlady, when evaluating these candidates. I'm very excited to see you questioning the decision ahead vs following opinions of others/slanted media coverage/over-rated endorsements, etc. We are counting on Ohio and I hope to be influential in your vote for Hillary.

Most LGBT folks realize this is "not our year", specific to former agendas or where we'd like to head as a community. However, Tesstown does point out Hillary's stance, which overall is universal with the Democratic choices now.

In thinking about the war, we need to 1)address the challenges the nation faces TODAY, not pull the voters mindset into October-2002, as "Mr.Change" continues to do. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say and Hillary concedes, if she could change one decision from her 35 years, it would have been the war vote. Keep in mind, there are 76 other "Yea" votes from that Senate roll call. Keep in mind, Obama was still in state legislature when he chose to speak out against the war - FINALLY, the Clinton campaign has reminded voters that Many people were against the war decision. 2) As more & more is uncovered about the current state of conditions, and the complex challenges for troop evacuation, I'd much rather have the broad depth of knowledge & strategy that Clinton offers any day. Someone who opposed the war, without the benefit of ALL critical military & political facts, could easily make judgments based on idealistic visions over reality.

The Economy: have you heard ONE solid idea from Obama Yet? My guess is not or you wouldn't have posed the question. I too am a survivor, RIF can hit very unexpectedly; I was fortunate however and resumed employment shortly thereafter. Cobra, separation packages, lack of savings, etc are all factors for the Unemployed - when we hear of similar struggles for the EMPLOYED, we've got to take action. The people of this country, all walks of life, feel a relative "pinch". Not surprisingly, those same people WANT POSITIVE CHANGE and have offered what they can to the campaign, an amazing $35M in February alone! The same financial commitment is on the Obama side, and unless those are celebrity funds, the idea is the same - Middle Class needs Maximum Change. We find the money or the time to support our next leader and I commend those on the road who live & breathe this mission.

Did you know: a popular pitch by Obama is the $4K tuition kick-back in exchange for national service. Hmmmmmm.....Ring a bell?? Say Bill Clinton, 1992! Yes, once again....Obama borrows ideas, words, phrases to lull the voters into his camp.

Did you know: During the last debate, Clinton's claim of always receiving the First question(of All events, not just that evening as the media quickly misconstrued) was fact-checked to be true. I had noticed this inconsistency for weeks but didn't know how to put a voice to it, so Hillary did that for us. Facts are, Clinton did receive the first question in 5 of the 6 2008 debates; in the final debate, Clinton spoke first more than twice as often as Obama. Without a prepared speech, I often see Obama struggle for words as well as unique ideas. With his whirlwind inquiries to Warren Buffet and other successful business/political figures, his candidacy will play out in his CliffNotes attempt to deliver what Hillary can do already, on Day One.

I'd love to know your take on this ..... best of luck with your vote decision!!

::Stepping off soapbox::

~karen~

CGP

03-01-2008, 05:11 PM

Kitchlady - I trust by this point that you can see it's obvious that Hillary is the more qualified and suitable candidate to represent the Democratic party?

Thanks everyone for your contributions - it's great to read well-articulated and compelling response which document Hillary's superior presidential candidacy!

CGP

03-01-2008, 05:14 PM

Your right! He is too new to the seen.. His voting record is terrible and I see a lot of the time he does not even vote. Whats up with that?

To me it demonstrates a difficulty taking responsibility and a difficulty in standing up and showing what he really believes in! To me Obama seems far to keen to please all parties which makes me doubt his motives! The real world of politics is tough and decisions need to be made. Choosing to opt out of making a decision and taking a hard line is a sign of weakness. That's what I like about Hillary - she is capable of making the tough calls and then is capable of enduring any attacks which follow. Those who say just what people want to hear are not to be trusted!

Tesstown

03-02-2008, 03:40 PM

Kitchlady,

Someone posted a great side by side comparison of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama elsewhere on this forum. Here it is:

http://www.diversityj.com/HillaryObamaComparison.html

Pretty interesting...

Valencia

03-03-2008, 12:40 AM

2. LGBT ISSUES[/B]

As a gay man myself, this is an easy one. Refer to the list of articles below and that should be enough to convince why I would NEVER vote for this man. In 2004 he refused to be photographed with the Mayor of San Francisco who at that time was authorizing gay marriages – does that make you feel supported??? And then in 2007 (Oct) Obama invited a well-known gay-hating homophobe Donnie McClurkin to his campaign events. Now Obama is placing ads to gay publications trying to win votes! This would have been like Hillary inviting a member of the KKK to her campaign events and then placing "vote for me" ads in BET or Vibe magazine!. Obama's actions on this issue are disgraceful! Also bear in mind that Obama attends a church which is highly against homosexuality. Obama's recent “support” of the LGBT community is motivated by ONE factor – a desire to con you into voting for him. Please don’t fall for it. He is a complete opportunist!

Obama's Anti-Gay Politics
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=105

I want to mention this, because it is the same case that happened in Puerto Rico. The Puerto Rico Governor, Anival Acevedo Vila endorsed BO. Endorsement that BO accepted. And actually BO went to PR, but refused any media coverage &/or pic's with the P R governor while he visited "La Fortaleza"( like the White House)

It is true that there is non-popular vote in PR for the USA primaries, but there are delegates in PR that vote on the USA primaries.

Remember what HRC mentioned on the last debate??? There is a difference b/t denannounce & reject. Is like BO will accept an endorsment because will bring delegates votes & money to the table, but, will refused to make it public in the USA because he knows that there are a lot of Puertoricans in the USA that vote in here & do not support The P.R. Governor Anibal Acevedo Vila, who is under FBI investigation for suspicious campaign finances. This had happen since he was "Comisionado Residente" Resident Commissioner in Washinton 8 years ago, & now as a Governor for the last 4 years.

So,BO is a complete opportunist.

Another good reason not to vote for BO.

CGP

03-03-2008, 01:27 AM

BO is a complete opportunist.

I've been saying it for a long time now it seems! He is indeed a complete opporunist! Say anything, do anything, to get your vote. And then when he's got your vote, say anything, do anything, to wipe out what he did to get your vote!

Obama's views change like the wind...He stands for change indeed - an ever changing viewpoint that seemingly has no foundation or ethical core!

Valencia

03-03-2008, 02:13 AM

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/26/irs_investigating_obamas_churc_2.html

Sorry that I am posting this twice. But I want you to have all the facts accessible before you make your desicion.

LChris

03-03-2008, 03:52 AM

Greetings,

For me - the difference is that Hillary has the courage of her convictions. She has effected change for over 35 years.

Senator Clinton was the first First Lady to march in a Gay pride parade, and has marched multiple times as Senator. I know of at least 3 other times Clinton has attended (2000, 2005, & 2006 in New York). She was supporting gays before Ellen or Rosie were gay <lol>. She has never avoided having her photo taken with gays.

My sister (staunch Republican) worked with her at AID - about 4 years while she was First Lady. She says that Hillary impressed EVERYONE so much - she was so smart, and such an effective, tireless worker. They got a lot done. this was during the early days of AIDS and it was so controversial. The Agency for International Development (AID) - (part of the State Department ) was so impressed that they had a plaque in her honor installed near the entrance of the building. George Bush had it taken down.

Here is an article about that...

-------------------------

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissa-muscatine-and-melanne-verveer/why-hillary-clinton-will-_b_83037.html

January 24, 2008

Henri Barkey and Tara Sonenshine are right in observing in this space ("Global View of Democrats") that the next US president will have the critical task of raising America's credibility around the world from the depths to which it has sunk.

The authors argue that Senator Obama is the best candidate to restore America's standing and authority based on his "transformative personality, personal history and appeal."

Here's why they are wrong.

While personal appeal and oratorical skill are certainly helpful in building diplomatic ties and conveying goodwill, they aren't a substitute for strong relationships and demonstrated leadership on the international stage. And as valuable as Senator Obama's Kenyan rootsand childhood in Indonesia are, these experiences are not, in fact,indicators of diplomatic skill or the knowledge of global affairsneeded to navigate international relations in our treacherous world.

By contrast, Hillary Clinton has been practicing public diplomacy for years and is widely respected around the world for her longtime commitment to international development, human rights and America's global leadership.

During the years that Hillary Clinton served as first lady, she became a symbol of America's human face and the values we cherish as a people. In an unprecedented role, she traveled to more than eighty countries to highlight the importance of investing in people. She gave voice to those living on the margins of society, particularly women and children, but also the poor. She put a spotlight on US development programs that offered solutions to pressing problems like infectious diseases, illiteracy, and economic marginalization. She advanced important causes -- from microcredit to global health initiatives -- with an array of foreign leaders, international organizations, and grass roots activists. And she also talked to Americans about why these investments were critical to expanding our influence and enhancing our own security.

Hillary Clinton traveled to places no first lady had ever gone, and where presidents can't go. Visits to some of the most troubled places around the world certainly offered her a measure of exposure and acculturation that she would carry with her to the presidency.

While her oratory may not be as soaring as Senator Obama's, herwords helped galvanize a global women's rights movement. Her now famousspeech in Beijing at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in 1995 --which declared that "human rights are women's rights and women's rightsare human rights" -- became a call to action to millions of women whojoined together in a common purpose - the struggle for women's rightsand human rights on a global scale.

Given her status as one of the world's most visible champions of these causes, it's not surprising that thousands waited through the night to hear her speak in the Philippines; that men and women stood ten deep along the streets in Mongolia to salute her when she traveled there; that the residents of Soweto danced in the streets awaiting her visit to their township.

Indeed, Hillary is today a familiar and beloved presence in many parts of the world. A street in a housing project where she helped squatters in South Africa was named after her. So was a clinic in Eritrea, a village in Bangladesh, and a school in Romania. When she arrived in Nicaragua after a devastating hurricane had hit, women held up a banner in Spanish that said: "Welcome to Hillary, the ambassador to the poor."

Perhaps as relevant today is her stature in the Muslim world. Having traveled extensively in the Middle East, North Africa, and Southeast Asia, she conducted vigorous outreach to diverse religious groups and convened leaders of different faiths to work together on religious tolerance and ways to combat extremism.

In 1999, a plaque was dedicated at the US Agency for International Development to recognize Hillary's leadership on global issues.

It said, "May all who pass through these portals recognize the invaluable contributions to worldwide development made by the First Lady of the US, Hillary Clinton."

The Bush Administration had the plaque removed. Plaque or not, her legacy around the world endures in the hearts and minds of millions of people for whom she was an embodiment of America at its very best. That is what Hillary Clinton would bring to the presidency.

-------------------------

Good luck with your decision!

PS : My sister and her former colleagues at AID - though mostly Republican are ALL voting enthusiastically for her.

kitchlady

03-03-2008, 12:14 PM

CGP

03-03-2008, 02:44 PM

I do want to say one thing that frustrates me about this forum is how difficult it is to find on Hillary's site. I finally gave up and went to my email to find it. You think they could make it more prominent on the site as it's a useful tool to sway voters....

Kitchlady - this forum is not listed at Hillary's site as the forum is an independent project which I funded and set up myself. I have no affiliation with the official website or Hillary's campaign. But you're right, forums such as this one can play a role in providing information and discussion to undecided voters such as yourself. Thank you for accessing the forum and I hope we have been able to argue the case well as to why Hillary is the much stronger candidate.

CGP

03-03-2008, 02:52 PM

Wow - lots of information. Thank you all. I didn't know some of the stuff about Barack. For instance the fact he refused to be photographed with Mayor Newsom. That's disappointing. I've discussed this issue in length with my partner who is leaning toward Hillary. After reading all this I think I'm leaning toward her as well.

I just want a president that will get us out of the hole Bush has dug. I'm starting to think that Hillary has more experience and therefore more things to draw on in order to get us out of it.

There is indeed a lot of information contained in the answers to your questions - much of which the mainstream media has refused to share with the public. Obama's refusal to be photographed with Mayor Newsom was a very damaging act and expressed very strongly how he really feels about advocating for LGBT rights. He does not show genuine commitment in fighting for our cause and I don't make that statement lightly.

In regards to cleaning up the mess of the current administration, doing that will require hard work and political skill. Hillary Clinton has infinitely more political knowledge, skill and experience than Obama. I trust wholeheartedly in her capacity/ability to bring about REAL CHANGES in the next 4 years on a practical level which affects everyday people. I have no such hope that Obama could achieve the same thing.

I encourage you to vote wisely and consider the information we have presented to you. The media has tried to force a candidate on the public but I encourage you to step away from the TV and newspapers and think independently. Your visit to this forum showed you have an open-mind and that's a good thing in the present media and cultural climate!

Jayling

03-03-2008, 03:09 PM

Kitchlady, welcome :)

I'm also from Ohio, northeast portion of the state, an area that is devastated from plant closings of steel mills and the auto industry.

A little background story, hope you don't mind. GLBT links at the bottom if you'd like to skip the story.

~~~~

It was Hillary's Voice that gave me Hope:

NAFTA is more than a sore spot around these parts. We'd be at work and had to watch them unbolt our equipment and ship it down to Mexico - one plant closed, move us to another plant. But believe it or not, our work was being shipped down to Mexico even before NAFTA was ever borne.

Back then, over two decades ago, the Mexican laborers were horribly used by our corporations (auto industry), paying them pesos a day, approximately 17 cents if I recall correctly. Then the plant that we had been moved to after losing the previous plant, it ended up being selected to go next. So again we watched them unbolt our machines and ship them south. Rinse and repeat over the years, layoffs aplenty, employees numbers dwindled.

But it wasn't until years later that some other trade deals were brokered, those that stretched all the way to Indonesia and China, and many other eastern countries - literally destroying us. Those other trade deals were much much worse than NAFTA, in my opinion.

The largest manufacturing bankruptcy in the history of the U.S. took place back in 2005 -- my company, Delphi (used to be a division of GM). They brought in the bankruptcy-wizard CEO, Steve Miller, and dismantled us to the bare core.

We were threatened with a 63% cut in pay, but that was only for those who had enough seniority to stay, along with a myriad of other devastating cuts, but the majority of factories in the U.S. were closed. There we stood again, trying to make our parts as we watched them strip the plants to bare nothingness. Oh god, it was so devastating. I think 50,000 high paying automotive jobs were lost in 2006 from this bankruptcy. If it wasn't for GM, we'd be in dire straits, but they helped us with buyouts or early retirements.

Thing is, it was Hillary's voice I recall the most from those stressful times. She was over in New York championing for us (the Rochester plant was out her way). Hillary went to George Bush and demanded an 'Auto Industry Summit', before we lost the very last of our manufacturing base. She also co-founded the 'Senate Manufacturing Caucus' with Rep. Senator Lindsay Graham. And she also had communications with the CEO that took our once thriving company into bankruptcy.

I appreciate her so much for trying to help us as our dignity was being stripped away.

Sorry for going on and on.

~~~~

Anyway, here's a few links for you about Hillary and the Gay Community.

Video - Hillary at the Human Rights Campaign, Part 1 & 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMhPfG40VFs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY3hh-pAGJ4&feature=related

An interview she had:
http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=16508

Jayling
(Joyce C.)

SwiftFox

03-03-2008, 05:58 PM

Jayling,
Your story is very moving. I hope some other undecided voters come over here and read it (and other info) and will come to the conclusion that Hillary is the best candidate.

Thank you for sharing that.

RAFREE

03-03-2008, 06:06 PM

Also why isn't the media covering those Maytag workers in Illinois! The plant was shut down laying off 1600 people who went to Obama for help and he did nothing for them at all! They posted on our blogs and were still some mad. They say he didn't care about them.

Then there are the Treehouse Foods workers. The Obama's ran that plant in Colorado and they shut it down laying off hundreds of latino workers, it was the main industry in the town!! Michelle Obama walked away with millions and the town has all but, gone bust completely.

Why? Can we not get news about this to Texas and Ohio!!

On medical insurance??? Michelle Obama is C.E.O. of University of Chicago Hospital and Barrack owns a stake in it. THEY turned away minority uninsured people and one 61 year old man died. The records are there. They also over charged the uninsured there. Again, the Obama's took millions in salary.

He cares sooo much about health care then wouldn't you think that this would make the news NOW?? Not later when people have not had a chance to see his real back ground????

I looked up facts and didn't take the MSM at face value before deciding my vote completely. This man has some serious explaining to do, to workers and people interested in caring about health care issues! His health care plan is basically a reworking of the current HMO"s and will leave HUGE gaps that the insurance companies can use to rise costs. :S :S :S

I am stunned that people do not go and find out who they are voting for...it's been rare to see independents really question hard.

The news keeps repeating "Well, their policies are the same."

John McCain blasted Obama for stealing Hillary's economic plan...which he has....and he's taken her stance on almost everything else. He asked her to campaign for him to gain his senate seat, took most all her agenda as his own except for the parts he has messed up. That's what I saw when I looked into him deeper.

What is so scary is that the media is not vetting him on these things and the voters are the losers.

CGP

03-03-2008, 06:40 PM

CGP

03-03-2008, 06:41 PM

Rafree - I think the campaign needs you at the top somewhere pushing some barriers!!

I like your attitude!

BloodDAnna

03-03-2008, 11:01 PM

Just a quick line in regards to the war in Iraq. There are former admirals, generals, and senior defense officials supporting Hillary (hear testimonials below), quite a few are former Joint Chiefs of Staff members.They are among nearly 30 general and flag officers who have endorsed her and to me that says she has a pretty sound idea on how to rectify the mess Bush has created and work with our military. Even astronaut John Glenn has also endorsed her. To me that speaks so much louder then celebrities like Oprah and Halle Berry endorsing a candidate.

Here is just one of the quotes from the link below:

Major General Paul Eaton

“On a personal note, I have a Special Forces Captain son and a Sergeant Paratrooper both in Afghanistan and I find Senator Clinton the perfect choice to be their Commander-in-Chief and to display the loyalty to command our armed forces and to rebuild them after the conflicts in which we are engaged right now.”
http://static.hillaryclinton.com/files/audio/20080302_call.mp3
You can hear some of their endorsements here

RAFREE

03-03-2008, 11:39 PM

Rafree - I think the campaign needs you at the top somewhere pushing some barriers!!

I like your attitude!

Ohhhh, but, I wish I could. I have followed Hillary's on the ground actual WORK for a long, long time. When Obama ran against her I wanted to know what's so great or not about him. Well, after about a month of research?? He's just not telling the truth about who he is and what he really represents.

I think voters need to KNOW the FACTS and I've been hopping upset that they won't if all they do is watch t.v. Then when google contributed to his campaign they filtered the search results in his favor! I was shocked! It's a lot harder to find the negatives on him than it is on her for that reason. Google admitted it saying that they didn't want anyone to be able to be racist...fine...but, you dont' take out nearly ALL the factual negative history on his political work or lack of it.

To me the media really does need to be held accountable here. What is so scary is that they are selling us Obama the same way they sold us GWB.

When are dems going to wake up and see what is happening here and stop it!

She can win, America needs her elbow grease, strength and sincerity to make real change happen.

I wish I was on the ground in Texas because it's just too close there for my liking. We need to make dems understand that Obama cannot win the G.E. and therefore we ARE going to end up with another republican White House if we do something crazy like nominate Obama right now.

I think she will win but, we have to work five times as hard because she doesn't have Oprah, Rupert Murdoch, Time Warner, and every other republican backed media spinning this for her and giving her money like he does.

JamieKuuipo

03-04-2008, 04:02 AM

CGP

03-04-2008, 04:10 AM

GOOD MORNING,

I JUST READ ALL RESPONSES. LET US KNOW HOW WE DID. JUST ONE THOUGHT FOR YOU

stick with someone who has proven she cares and will actully do somthing to help !1

vote for hillary you can;t go wrong

Good morning & I hear ya!

Take a look at the Texas Town Hall topic below where people talked a lot about Hillary's caring qualities:

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=615

GoHillary

03-04-2008, 12:38 PM

What is so scary is that the media is not vetting him on these things and the voters are the losers.

The reason the media is pushing Obama so hard, and giving him a free ride for now, is that if he is the candidate, they know that he has "new" dirt that they can surface. Anything they have on Hillary is old news, and they know it won't sell. Obama has stuff that people haven't heard yet, lots and lots of stuff, and it will sell their newspapers, and broaden their media outlets. They want a story, and they know at this time that Hillary is a non-story.

skc1976

03-04-2008, 02:05 PM

The reason the media is pushing Obama so hard, and giving him a free ride for now, is that if he is the candidate, they know that he has "new" dirt that they can surface. Anything they have on Hillary is old news, and they know it won't sell. Obama has stuff that people haven't heard yet, lots and lots of stuff, and it will sell their newspapers, and broaden their media outlets. They want a story, and they know at this time that Hillary is a non-story.

Maybe I was dreaming it last night or maybe I didn't hear it correctly, but I think that Anderson Cooper alluded to the fact that Obama sells when it comes to the media. I know he had a topic on the show last night called "Obama Bias?" But it sounded as a cop out at times saying the media wasn't biased but going with the stories that sell.

CGP

03-04-2008, 03:25 PM

The reason the media is pushing Obama so hard, and giving him a free ride for now, is that if he is the candidate, they know that he has "new" dirt that they can surface. Anything they have on Hillary is old news, and they know it won't sell. Obama has stuff that people haven't heard yet, lots and lots of stuff, and it will sell their newspapers, and broaden their media outlets. They want a story, and they know at this time that Hillary is a non-story.

I am with you on this. Media is a business. Making money is their goal. What better way to make money then be able to attract a huge viewership through "airing the dirty laundry" of the "next great political hope". Well Obama certainly isn't the latter but he has lots of the former! And some of these media outlets are just itching to start sharing it. It's all a game, a story, something to sell. And all so exceptionally IRRESPONSIBLE.

CGP

03-07-2008, 05:51 PM

Bump.

emmyCA

03-07-2008, 06:03 PM

As an Ohio voter through this whole primary I have been leaning toward Obama for president. I've read parts of both his and Hillary's website (they are too massive to read everything). I'm still on the fence. My brother is for Hillary but only says it's because he thinks she'd be better at foreign policy.

These are the three biggest issues I'm concerned about:

1. Economy - my partner has been unemployed for two years. You can't tell me the economy is getting better because all I see is it getting worse. No job openings for well qualified individuals. Cost of everything is going up at a pace much faster than my paycheck can handle.

2. LGBT Issues - I want equality in all aspects of my life including marriage

3. Iraq War/Foreign Policy - the war needs to end and we need better relationships with other countries.

So, tell me why I should vote for Hillary instead of Obama? I'll check back before the primary. I do intend on voting March 4th. As of right now I'm not sure who for. Please let me know why you are voting for Hillary.

Kitchlady , I changed my mind too and luckily I changed ontime, not too late. I also was able to change my family members and some friends' minds to switch to Hillary. Now they all love her and even willing to donate moeny. They see my passion, faith and belive in Hillary that they say they appreciate my support and hope that every single citizen in this country would take responsibility for the sake of the country. I infact at first like O-bore-ma but after a while I started to realize he is just O-blah-ma with word word and word but no sustance. I am now actually a very rock Hillary supporters. I work day and night blogging, and donating...I am proud to be on her company...She is the best candidate for this job and she should be chosen to have this job offer. I cannot wait till Fall to see a Woman to be a President, I cannot wait to the moment that Hillary is in the Whitehouse

RayinAR

03-07-2008, 06:09 PM

1. Hillary and Bill before her have always been for Gay rights.
2. Only Hillary has a clear plan to bring the economy under control. Obama talks but says the same thing over and over and over and doesn't even tell you what he is going to do.
3. Hillary will bring the troops home starting within 60 days and will bring a brigade or two a month home.

4. Hillary has great relations with almost all the world leaders already. They like and respect her. America's approval rating would improve drastically on Day one. What more will it take to convice you. Let me know