The "B" Word - Positive, Negative? What do you think?

[CGP]

I was just chatting with someone about the B word - bitch.

My take on its use is this:

I initially had some hesitation about using the "bitches get stuff done" phrase because I don't believe Hillary is a B in the negative sense of the word. But my interpretation from the SNL skit was that this was an attempt to reclaim a negative word, to empower women with the same word others have used to degrade them. Much the same way some gays/lesbians have reclaimed the word "queer". And if Hillary is a B, then evidently I like bitches! For me a positive intepretation of B is someone who doesn't take crap, who fights for what she believes in, and who will do battle for me when the stakes are high! And personally, with this latter definition in mind, I'd rather be known as a bitch that a weak piece of S*IT !

What do others think about using "bitch" in a positive way? Is it possible?

Disclosure: My vantage point is that of a gay male, and "bitch" is often jokenly thrown around in the LGBT community in both a positive and a negative way, depending on who's using the term, what the circumstances are, and what their intentions for using the word are. In using the phrase "bitches get stuff done", my intention is to reclaim a historically negative word and to stimulate some fire in those who understand what it means to fight back and to not accept oppression! Women and gays/lesbians know all about oppression!

We discussed this same topic in the thread below:

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=455

[SoCal4Hillary]

How odd...*I* was just discussing this with someone, too! ;)

My take on it is very much like yours. From hanging around my gay friends I got into the habit of calling them fags without even blinking, because they accepted me [as an honorary lesbian, no less!] and knew I wasn't being derogatory. But I would never go up to someone I don't know and call them a fag. Now, the infamous "N word"...I can't even make myself utter. So even though I have black relatives, and even though THEY throw the "N word" around at each other, I just can't make myself say it...I find it too repulsive. So what about "bitch" as it applies to Hillary?

Personally, I don't see her as a bitch at all. I see her as a capable, intelligent person, unafraid to stand up for herself--who happens to be a woman. But BECAUSE she's female, she gets accused of whining and/or bitching...yet a male saying the exact same things to stand up for himself would be given an "atta boy!" and a slap on the back.

I've refrained from using the various "bitch" slogans on my merchandise because, as I said, I don't think Clinton is a bitch, but also because I'm afraid they'll be misinterpreted. I wouldn't want it to look like the products are ANTI-Hillary. But I suppose if it's done right, so the message is very clear that they're actually PRO-Hillary, it might be okay. I'm going to think on this a little more...

[CGP]

I've refrained from using the various "bitch" slogans on my merchandise because, as I said, I don't think Clinton is a bitch, but also because I'm afraid they'll be misinterpreted.

That is my concern - that not all people will necessarily understand the empowerment component. It's fine for those of us who understand the concept of "reclaiming" negative language, but not everyone gets that! If it is was negatively interpreted on a widespread basis, that would be bad. On the other hand, if it re-engages some who have felt disengaged and fires them up, that would be good.

It's a useful discussion though and I am still open to the possibility of dropping my avatar and slogan for something else!

[BloodDAnna]

My dad and I were talking about this on the phone last night. He did not see the SNL skit but I told him about the "Bitches get things done" and he said "Well thats not very nice". I explained that no it isn't but if people are going to use that as their reason for not voting for her ie: "I don't like her, she's a bitch" then I'm all for owning the word for her.

I've been called a bitch since puberty, I've heard it enough in my career to take it as a compliment in my job performance. I'm appalled that a dignified mature woman like Hillary has to still hear it in reference to herself and I'm sure in her career she's heard worse.

[RAFREE]

When someone is using any word to humiliate you then it's not okay. If they are using that same word to create bonds of acceptance, to make a negative a positive, to reclaim power then it's a totally different thing!!

In college my two room mates that I shared an apartment with were both gay men. One African American the other White. We used that b word day and night talking to each other but, you better not let a ex boyfriend say it me to hurt me in anyway because those bitches had my back!

LOL, this is how I feel about it. ;)

[Shelley]

The only thing that bothers me about it is that its literal meaning of a female dog sort of bothers me. Too bad it doesn't mean female cat. That would be more appropriate, because you really don't want to mess with a mother cat. I remember this little tiny cat we had chasing off a cat twice her size when she had kittens. But unfortunately pussy cat has a total opposite connotation.

[ourhouse]

How odd...*I* was just discussing this with someone, too! ;)

My take on it is very much like yours. From hanging around my gay friends I got into the habit of calling them fags without even blinking, because they accepted me [as an honorary lesbian, no less!] and knew I wasn't being derogatory. But I would never go up to someone I don't know and call them a fag. Now, the infamous "N word"...I can't even make myself utter. So even though I have black relatives, and even though THEY throw the "N word" around at each other, I just can't make myself say it...I find it too repulsive. So what about "bitch" as it applies to Hillary?

Personally, I don't see her as a bitch at all. I see her as a capable, intelligent person, unafraid to stand up for herself--who happens to be a woman. But BECAUSE she's female, she gets accused of whining and/or bitching...yet a male saying the exact same things to stand up for himself would be given an "atta boy!" and a slap on the back.

I've refrained from using the various "bitch" slogans on my merchandise because, as I said, I don't think Clinton is a bitch, but also because I'm afraid they'll be misinterpreted. I wouldn't want it to look like the products are ANTI-Hillary. But I suppose if it's done right, so the message is very clear that they're actually PRO-Hillary, it might be okay. I'm going to think on this a little more...

socaL LA? maybe? 'im from west LA/Culver city hope youre not a ucla fan
anyway you guys teachers complain students don'twrite much anymore!
well I beg to differ every election especially this one we write our hearts out.
and one more thing may I HAND IN YOUR BLOG WORK TO LAND ME AN easy "A" IN ENGLISH COMP?
HIHI!!!
Joking I'm older than your mother
This election is begging to sound like ACD EFG HIJK LMNOP
the "H" word obama the "N" word OJ the "B" for Hillary
so folks if you don't know your ABCs you cannot vote! I say anyone with me?
cause this election is definitily about words and letters or haven't U noticed?
No "I" allowed (issues) punishable by media redicule and scaffolding in public renaissance markets. attended by VIP elite voters only(pick up your VIP pass in my toilet.) This is taratata THE one and only "F"Election
à bientot

[ourhouse]

AND one more thing can you p le a se! find a way for me to email a note to Jack Nicholson
jusst get on that computer thingy and dig it. I have an idia for him to help hillary Im not kidding. just get me that address on my email thank you
peace

[ourhouse]

[QUOTE=ourhouse;2731]socaL LA? maybe? 'im from west LA/Culver city hope youre not a ucla fan
anyway you guys teachers complain students don'twrite much anymore!
well I beg to differ every election especially this one we write our hearts out.
and one more thing may I HAND IN YOUR BLOG WORK TO LAND ME AN easy "A" IN ENGLISH COMP?
HIHI!!!
Joking I'm older than your mother
This election is begging to sound like ACD EFG HIJK LMNOP
the "H" word obama the "N" word OJ the "B" for Hillary
so folks if you don't know your ABCs you cannot vote! I say anyone with me?
cause this election is definitily about words and letters or haven't U noticed?
No "I" allowed (issues) punishable by media redicule and scaffolding in public renaissance markets. attended by VIP elite voters only(pick up your VIP pass in my toilet.) This is taratata THE one and only "F"Election
à bientot

[BooskerD]

I saw the B word as a positive thing in Murray's avatar. My feelings run something along these lines... "Yeah, you think women with brains are bitches? O.K., watch as this "bitch" becomes president of the United States, maybe the best one we've ever had!" Still, if I heard some threatened republican dude refer to her as a bitch, my hackles would be up. Maybe it's one of those terms we can use for ourselves without feeling insulted- like my friends and I can refer to ourselves as "dykes" but if an outsider did it, there'd be trouble.

[joeysky18]

my apology to all the women in this group if my following comment offend anyone.

in my book, the bitch is divided into two sub-categories.

A bitch with principle and without principle.

Hillary and my dear boss are good examples of a bitch with principle. They always speak their minds, and tell people off when they are wrong. They are vocal, fighter, never gives up, never gives in, but their actions are based on solid principle. They fight for what is right. Men respect them and fear them.

Maureen Dowd is the best example of a bitch without principle. She always speak her mind, tell people off, very vocal, but her actions are pure evil. She doesn't have any principle. She just says it because she feels like it. She is a kind of bitch that fight for herself benefit.

So I love the first kind of bitch. I want to have them in my team. The second kind I'll shoot them down than having them on my side. They can turn enemy any day.

[CGP]

Still, if I heard some threatened republican dude refer to her as a bitch, my hackles would be up. Maybe it's one of those terms we can use for ourselves without feeling insulted- like my friends and I can refer to ourselves as "dykes" but if an outsider did it, there'd be trouble.

Exactly. It's an "in-group" thing - ok from within when used to self-empower, but not ok when used disparaginly (spelling?) by those in the dominant group. I'll let my drag queen friend call me a "fag" and laugh about it but if a straight man who I don't know called me the same thing, I'd be appalled!

[Valencia]

Depends to who you are going to talk about it. The generation. Both of my parents are 63, but if I use that word while talking to my mother (who is a bitch), would be offensive for her but for my dad will be fun. Actually my SIL is 29 & Republican, but voted for Hillary, because she believe she is the only one who can handle the economic crisis that is going on in the USA right now.... But what is funny is that she had never liked Hillary, because she said she is "bitchy".
And then she told me " Well, wait a minute, I am bitch too. With my kids to get up in the morning for school, to make my 8 years old take a shower, with your brother (my brother , her husband) to fix stuff around the house,etc.)

So at first could be offensive, but when you get into it like Tina Fey did, you realize, that is the way wives get their husband to get things done.

[SantaCruzen]

I have noticed and stated for years that the English Language is Bi-Polar. Really, one can state that the language is really complicated for several reasons. Take a look at the dict.org and you can look at words from a variety of dictionaries. As I recall, Webster was fluent in umpteen languages. He preserved those languages and their meanings for the New World - American.

From what I studied about the Druids, the Druids preserved cultural traditions with their lore which seemed to me to be poetic and logic word playful and prayerful prose. I have often felt that those Celts were embedding information bytes because they lived on the edge of the Roman Empire while information needed to be somewhat hidden or passed along untethered to meaning. I have thought that the English language itself has that sense of meaning more than one intention at a time, a kind of multiple personalities, bi-polarities.

Based on my concept of the English Language, it is easy to transfer information by inference, directly or indirectly. And, it is easy to infer either a positive or a negative meaning. And, we all get a funny bone when words trigger both the positive and negative at the same moment.

Thus, the B-word like the N-word or the L-word or the G-word can really shift our perceptions of positive and negative by doing the Celtic thing--playing with words.

[CGP]

Thus, the B-word like the N-word or the L-word or the G-word can really shift our perceptions of positive and negative by doing the Celtic thing--playing with words.

Indeed !

[EH]

If used the way Tina Fey used it, as in meaning a gutsy, ballsy woman who won't let anything knock her down, then it's now become one of my favorite words - hence my sig!

[Smart cookie]

In a heated discussion with a McCain supporter I suddenly remembered my #1 rule- never enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man! After he found himself unable to offer an intelligent rebuttle he threw out the B word. I said thanks for the compliment regarding Hillary because the qualities that she posesses-a fighter, tough, tenacious, brilliant, successful, a leader..... are the same qualities that are admired in MEN. When insecure men face such a women they can't win the discussion so they revert to calling her a bitch.

Real men admire strong women, smart men marry them!

Hillary will get stuff done, hey Obama, ain't that a bitch?

[debbrad]

In a heated discussion with a McCain supporter I suddenly remembered my #1 rule- never enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man! After he found himself unable to offer an intelligent rebuttle he threw out the B word. I said thanks for the compliment regarding Hillary because the qualities that she posesses-a fighter, tough, tenacious, brilliant, successful, a leader..... are the same qualities that are admired in MEN. When insecure men face such a women they can't win the discussion so they revert to calling her a bitch.

Real men admire strong women, smart men marry them!

Hillary will get stuff done, hey Obama, ain't that a bitch?

Very well said!