(5.24.10) Bill Clinton Rips Birthers During Yale Commencement Speech (VIDEO) (TalkingPointsMemo)

[Foggy]

Bill Clinton Rips Birthers During Yale Commencement Speech (VIDEO)


Former President Bill Clinton called out Birthers during his commencement speech to the Yale class of 2010 -- citing Birthers as an example of what happens when people are only exposed to viewpoints they agree with.

"The only place where we're bigoted now is we only want to be around people who agree with us," Clinton said.

"We go to the television stations, we go to the radio talk shows, we go to the blog sites that agree with us. And it can have very bizarre consequences."

The Birther movement is one of these consequences, Clinton said.

"Hawaii, the state were President Obama was born, has done everything they can to debunk this myth that he wasn't born in America. They've done everything but blow up his birth certificate, put it in neon lights and hang it on the dome of the capitol. But 45% of registered Republicans still believe that he is serving unconstitutionally. Why? Because they've been told that by the only place they go to get information."

Watch the entire speech (Birther comments come at 19:00):

No Nudity


Source (http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/bill-clinton-rips-birthers-during-yale-commencement-speech-video.php)

[Jim744]

Awww....love Bill but sometimes:surprise:. I don't think this is a subject for a college commencement. Obama's rant certainly wasn't!

[Foggy]

Whaddya mean, Obama's rant? At Yale? He wasn't there.

WTF are you yappin' about?

[Jim744]

Whaddya mean, Obama's rant? At Yale? He wasn't there.

WTF are you yappin' about?

No, Obama wasn't at Yale. Keep up with the news. He ranted about the AZ law at a different commencement!

[Foggy]

So are you hijacking my thread? Or just deflecting?

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/emoticons/daydreaming.gif

[Jim744]

So are you hijacking my thread? Or just deflecting?

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/emoticons/daydreaming.gif

No, I made a comment about Clinton and just compared the 2. Carry on.

[RE:]

I don't think this was really a 'ripping' at all. He was trying to point out the fact that echo chambers can have bizarre consequences. He was using the birth certificate as an example. In my opinion, (and I don't want this to turn into yet another BC Thread) when someone has the belief that Obama or anyone else is serving unconstitutionally, it doesn't automatically lump them into the 'Birther' category/group. I believe he was born in the United States, but I think there are other factors that may have caused him to be ineligable.

Like I said...I will not comment any further on those factors. I just don't like to be generalized.

[mack20]

You know, I just went back and read Obama's West Point, Hampton and University of Michigan commencement addresses....and did not see a single explicit reference to the new AZ law, let alone a "rant" about it. Jim, could you please source your assertion?

[Jim744]

I believe he was born in the United States, but I think there are other factors that may have caused him to be uneligable.



I agree and the reason I think he is ineligible I'll keep to myself so as to not derail this thread.

But I still think it wasn't a good topic for a commencement speech.

[Foggy]

Bullshit.

Either explain why you think he's ineligible, or STFU.

I mean, WTF, is this some primary skool sekrit?






I love how Jim744 dodged mack20's question. Were you the dodgeball champ of your elementary skool, Jim?

[Laura Cereta]

Mod Warning: xenophobia, inflammatory posts and personal insults, i.e. "STFU" are against forum policy. Please discuss the issues and not each other.

[Jim744]

Mod Warning: xenophobia, inflammatory posts and personal insults, i.e. "STFU" are against forum policy. Please discuss the issues and not each other.

Gee, I try not to derail the thread and then I'm egged on to discuss why I think Obama is ineligible and am called names because I don't (derail the thread). Wow! Have it both ways, will ya, Foggy?

[mack20]

I'm still waiting for a source for your claim that Obama went off on a rant about the AZ law during a commencemnt speech. Of course, you admitting you were wrong works for me too.

[Jim744]

I'm still waiting for a source for your claim that Obama went off on a rant about the AZ law during a commencemnt speech. Of course, you admitting you were wrong works for me too.

Give me time. I might accidentally post a right wing website that someone decides to pick a quote from page 2000 when I'm quoting page 10 to try to accuse me of xenophobia, racism, etc. Quite frankly I don't want to be mis-catagorized this way and am now reluctant to post links--just my own comments.

Since most of you guys who are on the left, don't bother to address issues but rather call names, etc. I'm not much inclined to engage with you or honor your requests any longer.

[mack20]

Well, there are plenty of reputable news sources that have full transcripts of all 3 of Obama's commencement speeches. Feel free to begin with those.

[Jim744]

Well, there are plenty of reputable news sources that have full transcripts of all 3 of Obama's commencement speeches. Feel free to begin with those.

You do it. I told you my reason for not doing it. Post away with sources.

[Spang]

You do it. I told you my reason for not doing it. Post away with sources.

I've probably posted more articles than anyone else on this forum. The only complaint I get is that the sources are left-wing. Do you know why that is? Because I don't post articles from right-wing nor racist sources, except for occasionally FOX News. You don't have to be a goddamn rocket scientist to post articles from sources that aren't racist. There are plenty of non-racist sources on the internet.

[mack20]

You do it. I told you my reason for not doing it. Post away with sources.

Hahahaha, god that's pathetic. I'm not at my computer right now but I'll post sources when I get home. Do you think you'll be able to manage to read them yourself or will you need your hand held for that too?

[Laura Cereta]

This is not productive. This thread is not even about a commencement speech from Obama. The personal attacks aren't necessary and neither is the defense of the source from the other thread. Like Spang, I have posted a lot of articles and unlike Spang, I post them across the entire political spectrum and yet I have managed not to ever use a racist source. There is no need for discussion of the source to go on in five different threads.

I would say something about the topic of the thread now but I honestly can't think of anything to say.

[Spang]

This is not productive. This thread is not even about a commencement speech from Obama. The personal attacks aren't necessary and neither is the defense of the source from the other thread. Like Spang, I have posted a lot of articles and unlike Spang, I post them across the entire political spectrum and yet I have managed not to ever use a racist source. There is no need for discussion of the source to go on in five different threads.

I would say something about the topic of the thread now but I honestly can't think of anything to say.

Then let's get rid of this *******, he's nothing but ******* trouble.

[Laura Cereta]

Then let's get rid of this *******, he's nothing but ******* trouble.

As are you. Call someone a name one more time tonight. Seriously. Try it.

[VotingHillary]

I would say something about the topic of the thread now but I honestly can't think of anything to say.

I can, Laura. I don't like politicians from either side using these "commencement addresses" as their political platforms. And I would have no problem if not a one of them gave one again.

[Jim744]

I've probably posted more articles than anyone else on this forum. The only complaint I get is that the sources are left-wing. Do you know why that is? Because I don't post articles from right-wing nor racist sources, except for occasionally FOX News. You don't have to be a goddamn rocket scientist to post articles from sources that aren't racist. There are plenty of non-racist sources on the internet.

Move on.

[Spang]

As are you. Call someone a name one more time tonight. Seriously. Try it.

I'll stop calling xenophobic and racist people names when they stop being xenophobic and racist.

[Jim744]

This is not productive. This thread is not even about a commencement speech from Obama. The personal attacks aren't necessary and neither is the defense of the source from the other thread. Like Spang, I have posted a lot of articles and unlike Spang, I post them across the entire political spectrum and yet I have managed not to ever use a racist source. There is no need for discussion of the source to go on in five different threads.

I would say something about the topic of the thread now but I honestly can't think of anything to say.

I already apologized on the other thread. I don't go sifting through others' links to see if there may be something racist or otherwise there. I only posted that one page which I happened to mostly agree with. Other things posted from that website were not done by me. Also, I will not be posting anymore links on this forum so as not to have things posted out of context attributed to me as agreeing with whatever it is. Those who want to can think I'm whatever it is you think but I'm not--I've posted over and over again the things I think are fair aid right regarding minorities but that stuff gets ignored. I'm out of this thread.

And the gall of Spang to constantly try to run everyone off when he is probably the most offensive poster here! [-X

[VotingHillary]

This is why "political" speeches masked as commencement addresses should cease. This isn't about the graduates, this is about an agenda.

Congrats, grads of 2010. Even your commencement isn't permitted to be a simple celebration.

YouTube- University of Arizona College of Social and Behavioral Sciences Commencement Speech

[Spang]

This is why "political" speeches masked as commencement addresses should cease. This isn't about the graduates, this is about an agenda.

Congrats, grads of 2010. Even your commencement isn't permitted to be a simple celebration.

YouTube- University of Arizona College of Social and Behavioral Sciences Commencement Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSppVDbEZkg&feature=player_embedded)

That was a great speech.

[VotingHillary]

That was a great speech.

Apparently not to many in the audience. There is a time and place for everything...this was neither for this speech.

BTW, how much are you being paid to keep up your "rants" in order to keep the post count up on this board to increase its financial viability?

Anyone else would have been banned for your behavior...as I am sure I will be for this post.

[Spang]

BTW, how much are you being paid to keep up your "rants" in order to keep the post count up on this board to increase its financial viability?

I won't accept a salary.

[VotingHillary]

I won't accept a salary.

paid by the hour?

[Spang]

paid by the hour?

I don't accept any wages.

[mack20]

Obama's 2010 commencement address transcripts:

West Point (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/22/national/main6509577.shtml)

Hampton University (http://www.wtkr.com/news/wtkr-obama-hampton-address-transcript,0,7478536.story)

University of Michigan (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-university-michigan-spring-commencement)

[Jim744]

Apparently not to many in the audience. There is a time and place for everything...this was neither for this speech.

BTW, how much are you being paid to keep up your "rants" in order to keep the post count up on this board to increase its financial viability?

Anyone else would have been banned for your behavior...as I am sure I will be for this post.

Notice he said he doesn't accept wages or a salary. What other things could receiving money, payment, compensation, etc. be called? Hmmmm....

[Foggy]

Mod Warning: xenophobia, inflammatory posts and personal insults, i.e. "STFU" are against forum policy. Please discuss the issues and not each other.You're right, and I apologize. I was just so shocked.

If the president really was ineligible for the office, I'd be furious. I'd consider it, as the Birthers say, "a constitutional crisis of Biblical proportions". I'd think the Constitution had been subverted, and I would never rest trying to do something about it. I, too, took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. I still take that oath seriously.

When the controversy first arose in June '08, I looked at it long and hard. In fact, as y'all know by now, I'm a political junkie and a weird lawsuit junkie, and I became so mesmerized with the issue that I got sucked into the vortex and never have quite got out again. I'm flying to Phoenix on Saturday to meet up with a dozen of my fellow Anti-Birthers, who have gallantly mocked and humiliated the Birthers for lo these many moons. Four star hotel, dinner at Cibos in a private room, funny speeches and twisted song lyrics, the whole nine yards. :thumbsup:

But if I honestly thought there was anything to the myriad claims that he's ineligible, I'd have fought even harder on the other side.

I guarantee you that if I hold any political belief at all, I'll be willing to discuss the reasons I hold that position. That's what political discourse is supposed to be about.

But I apologize for losing my temper.

[foxyladi]

You're right, and I apologize. I was just so shocked.

If the president really was ineligible for the office, I'd be furious. I'd consider it, as the Birthers say, "a constitutional crisis of Biblical proportions". I'd think the Constitution had been subverted, and I would never rest trying to do something about it. I, too, took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. I still take that oath seriously.

When the controversy first arose in June '08, I looked at it long and hard. In fact, as y'all know by now, I'm a political junkie and a weird lawsuit junkie, and I became so mesmerized with the issue that I got sucked into the vortex and never have quite got out again. I'm flying to Phoenix on Saturday to meet up with a dozen of my fellow Anti-Birthers, who have gallantly mocked and humiliated the Birthers for lo these many moons. Four star hotel, dinner at Cibos in a private room, funny speeches and twisted song lyrics, the whole nine yards. :thumbsup:

But if I honestly thought there was anything to the myriad claims that he's ineligible, I'd have fought even harder on the other side.

I guarantee you that if I hold any political belief at all, I'll be willing to discuss the reasons I hold that position. That's what political discourse is supposed to be about.

But I apologize for losing my temper.

nice thanks not every rooster is big enough to apologize:thumbsup:

[samurai007]

You're right, and I apologize. I was just so shocked.

If the president really was ineligible for the office, I'd be furious. I'd consider it, as the Birthers say, "a constitutional crisis of Biblical proportions". I'd think the Constitution had been subverted, and I would never rest trying to do something about it. I, too, took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. I still take that oath seriously.

When the controversy first arose in June '08, I looked at it long and hard. In fact, as y'all know by now, I'm a political junkie and a weird lawsuit junkie, and I became so mesmerized with the issue that I got sucked into the vortex and never have quite got out again. I'm flying to Phoenix on Saturday to meet up with a dozen of my fellow Anti-Birthers, who have gallantly mocked and humiliated the Birthers for lo these many moons. Four star hotel, dinner at Cibos in a private room, funny speeches and twisted song lyrics, the whole nine yards. :thumbsup:

But if I honestly thought there was anything to the myriad claims that he's ineligible, I'd have fought even harder on the other side.

I guarantee you that if I hold any political belief at all, I'll be willing to discuss the reasons I hold that position. That's what political discourse is supposed to be about.

But I apologize for losing my temper.
I just find it strange that the left, with its many secularists who deride people of faith for believing in a God they can't see, here believe in something they've never seen and deride those on the right who are demanding to see proof with their own eyes. It's quite the reversal.

[Suzan]

Apparently not to many in the audience. There is a time and place for everything...this was neither for this speech.

BTW, how much are you being paid to keep up your "rants" in order to keep the post count up on this board to increase its financial viability?

Anyone else would have been banned for your behavior...as I am sure I will be for this post.
Yeah, this is inappropriate. Please, no more conspiracy theories about members of the forum getting paid for post count. Where did that come from???

LOL, now that I think about it, you'd make a good thriller writer.

[Suzan]

I just find it strange that the left, with its many secularists who deride people of faith for believing in a God they can't see, here believe in something they've never seen and deride those on the right who are demanding to see proof with their own eyes. It's quite the reversal.
Now, you're comparing seeing God to seeing a birth certificate? We have seen the birth certificate and all the various birther theories have been thoroughly debunked. However, it you don't think so and would like to discuss it further, we have a battleground thread for just that. Knock yourself out.

[Suzan]

I guarantee you that if I hold any political belief at all, I'll be willing to discuss the reasons I hold that position. That's what political discourse is supposed to be about.

But I apologize for losing my temper.

Thank you!

[Foggy]

I just find it strange that the left ... here believe in something they've never seen ...I've seen it.



http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/barack/birthcertificate/kenyabc.jpg?t=1274805288




Oh, wait ... no, that's the fake one I sent to Orly on a flash drive, that she filed in federal court last July.

I meant this one:



http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/barack/birthcertificate/hands.jpg



Large scale copy of the original can be found here (http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_3.jpg).

[samurai007]

Now, you're comparing seeing God to seeing a birth certificate? We have seen the birth certificate and all the various birther theories have been thoroughly debunked. However, it you don't think so and would like to discuss it further, we have a battleground thread for just that. Knock yourself out.

I don't know where such a thread is, and I don't feel like necroing it. But it's interesting that you believe you've seen his actual birth certificate. But then, many religious people see concrete evidence of God and miracles that non-believers don't see too...

[samurai007]

I've seen it.



Oh, wait ... no, that's the fake one I sent to Orly on a flash drive, that she filed in federal court last July.

I meant this one:



http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/barack/birthcertificate/hands.jpg



Large scale copy of the original can be found here (http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_3.jpg).

That's a COLB, not his birth certificate, which is supposedly on file in Hawaii, and under lock and key.

[Foggy]

The state of Hawai'i gives out ONLY the COLB. It's legal proof, in any court of law in America, that he was born in Hawai'i. He doesn't need to prove what hospital he was born in. The Constitution requires only that you be a natural born citizen, not that you were born in a particular hospital (especially since none of the early presidents were born in hospitals).

Welcome to the 21st century. The state of Washington gives you only a card that fits in your wallet. The state of North Carolina only gives a short-form birth certificate.

The Governor of Hawai'i, a Republican, recently confirmed that HE WAS BORN IN HAWAI'I. And he has legal, certified proof of it.

The director of Hawai'i's Department of Health put out an official press release saying "Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen".

Why would anyone need to see the original, if we know it says he was born in Hawai'i?? What's wrong with accepting the legal, certified form of birth certificate, the only birth certificate he can obtain today? Or do you want him to be above the law, and get something other Hawai'ian citizens CAN NOT GET?

Or are you implying that the government of Hawai'i is conspiring to violate the Constitution?

[Jim744]

I just find it strange that the left, with its many secularists who deride people of faith for believing in a God they can't see, here believe in something they've never seen and deride those on the right who are demanding to see proof with their own eyes. It's quite the reversal.

I know, people who have an opposite opinion are derided. I would think that people would want to know the abusolute truth and once proven (he is or isn't eligible) the other side can simply say "we told you so" and move on. We don't have monolithic views in our society and everyone has the right to seek what they think might be the truth.

[samurai007]

The state of Hawai'i gives out ONLY the COLB. It's legal proof, in any court of law in America, that he was born in Hawai'i. He doesn't need to prove what hospital he was born in. The Constitution requires only that you be a natural born citizen, not that you were born in a particular hospital (especially since none of the early presidents were born in hospitals).

Welcome to the 21st century. The state of Washington gives you only a card that fits in your wallet. The state of North Carolina only gives a short-form birth certificate.

The Governor of Hawai'i, a Republican, recently confirmed that HE WAS BORN IN HAWAI'I. And he has legal, certified proof of it.

The director of Hawai'i's Department of Health put out an official press release saying "Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen".

Why would anyone need to see the original, if we know it says he was born in Hawai'i?? What's wrong with accepting the legal, certified form of birth certificate, the only birth certificate he can obtain today? Or do you want him to be above the law, and get something other Hawai'ian citizens CAN NOT GET?

Or are you implying that the government of Hawai'i is conspiring to violate the Constitution?

We know for a fact that Hawaii issues COLBs for people born outside the state but who register there. Obama's sister was, by all accounts, born in Indoneesia, but she has a Hawaii COLB.

And yes, I know people have certified it. The Pope and the archbishops have certified God's existence too, but that doesn't mean I believe them, or that they are necessarily part of a sinister conspiracy.

[Jim744]

Why would anyone need to see the original, if we know it says he was born in Hawai'i?? What's wrong with accepting the legal, certified form of birth certificate, the only birth certificate he can obtain today? Or do you want him to be above the law, and get something other Hawai'ian citizens CAN NOT GET?

Better yet, why would Obama need to hide the original. Since it's become such a huge piece of baggage for him and it creates so many people who are therefore against him being president, why doesn't he produce it even though he doesn't have to in order to clear the air and prove the birthers wrong to try to unite everyone?????? Why does he want this divide about it? I can only conclude he MAY have something to hide. Anyone asked to show the same thing who is running for office, especially president should be happy to oblige out of openness and fairness not necessarily because of the letter of the law.

[Suzan]

If you want to rehash the Birther conspiracy theories, here's the Battleground Thread. Take it there, please!

http://www.commongroundpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=41581

[LadyLazarus]

If you want to rehash the Birther conspiracy theories, here's the Battleground Thread. Take it there, please!

http://www.commongroundpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=41581

I was just about to post the same thing. Thanks Suzan.

[cinnamongirl]

I was just about to post the same thing. Thanks Suzan.

Ditto. The conspiracy theories are getting out of control here lately.

[Suzan]

Originally Posted by Lady Lazarus
I was just about to post the same thing. Thanks Suzan.

Ditto. The conspiracy theories are getting out of control here lately.

You're welcome!

[Foggy]

I think that's just silly and childish.

Dozens of threads about Sarah Palin.

Dozens of threads about health insurance reform.

Getting to be dozens of threads about the oil spill now.

Dozens of threads about any other topic we'd like to discuss.


But if people start arguing birtherism on a thread, suddenly we have to be herded by the mods onto the one thread where it's acceptable to debate the issue.

Even if someone tells an outrageous lie like "Obama's [half-]sister has a Hawai'i COLB." She doesn't. If she did, how come no one has ever seen it? That's like saying that John McCain released HIS birth certificate. He didn't. Or saying the president could get a COLB that says his place of birth is Honolulu, when the Hawai'i Dept. of Health has explicitly said, if he was born somewhere else, it would say so on his COLB.

I'm donating cash to this board every month now. I'm here to stay, and I'm making a contribution, and I'm following the rules.


But I think forcing all debate of a national issue to be in one thread is childish and silly. Bill Clinton mentioned it in his commencement speech at Yale. Anderson Cooper interviewed Lt. Col. Lakin and his lawyer for almost 10 minutes on nationable Tee Vee. Polls are consistently showing that half the Republican Party thinks President Obama might have been born in another country.

Because, of course, the Republicans spent the whole Bush presidency telling us that it was treasonous to criticize the president in time of war. We're still at war. So they and the PUMAs came up with a cute little series of lies to justify criticizing the president in time of war, which is that he's not really a legitimate president.

On the bright side, every claim made by the Birthers has been fully debunked, and most rational people are aware that the only basis of the "movement" is lies and hatred. But it's a cancer that is still metastasizing.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT NATIONAL ISSUE.

I really, really think you should revisit the restrictive policy of forcing us to discuss it only in one thread. That really sucks, if you ask me.

[Suzan]

Foggy, we did it, as we do with all big, controversial issues because the threads proliferate to the point that they overtake the board. The result is overlapping posts and repetitive information and lots of confusion.

Also, the Birther issue was so contentious, inflammatory and out of control that CGP considered banning discussion here altogether. Instead, he created a battleground enter-at-your own-risk thread to forewarn members and spare moderators the grief of having to referee all the fights.

Feel free to let CGP know what your concerns are. A PM would be the best way.

[Spang]

Instead, he created a battleground enter-at-your own-risk thread to forewarn members and spare moderators the grief of having to referee all the fights.

You mean, if "battleground" is in front of a thread title, moderators won't have to waste their time in that thread posting meaningless mod warnings?

[Foggy]

Foggy, we did it, as we do with all big, controversial issues because the threads proliferate to the point that they overtake the board.OK, then please direct me to the one thread where all posts regarding the big, controversial issue of health insurance reform MUST be posted.

I must have missed it.

[Spang]

OK, then please direct me to the one thread where all posts regarding the big, controversial issue of health insurance reform MUST be posted.

I must have missed it.

There's actually been two of those threads. After the first one got too big they made a second one. Perhaps we need a new birther thread.

[foxyladi]

There's actually been two of those threads. After the first one got too big they made a second one. Perhaps we need a new birther thread.

oh.goody I''ll make a pie:rotfl::rotfl:

[Foggy]

Perhaps we need a new birther thread.I don't think so.

The real problem is, it's OK for the Birthers like samurai to post outright false information, like "Maya Soetoro has a COLB" or "You can get a COLB that says you were born in Honolulu, even if you were born elsewhere." It's only if anyone tries to post the debunking information that the mods step in.

They're allowed to post their side of the story in any thread, even though it's dead wrong, but if anyone points out that what they wrote is wrong, suddenly we all need to go to the Battleground Thread.

But the Birthers won't use the Battleground Thread. They don't dare have a rational, honest discussion of the issue. So they just post their little Birther comments in any thread they like, and nobody can respond without the mods stepping in.

Which I admit: If nobody argues, it's not a battle.



Look at what happened in this thread:

First, it was hijacked to discuss Obama's commencement speeches instead of Bill Clinton's speech.

Then, samurai made his first Birther crack -- we (the left) haven't seen a birth certificate.

Then Suzan told him all the Birther claims had been debunked. At that point, they're having a 'battleground' discussion, right? They're discussing Birtherism on my thread.

So I jump in, 'specially 'cuz I'm still proud of my small role in mailing the first Fake Kenyan Birth Certificate to Orly, which she filed in federal court. We tried to spoof her, and it worked far beyond our wildest dreams.



But samurai posts more inaccurate Birther myths, like Maya's COLB and that you can be born elsewhere and get a COLB (which no Birther has yet been able to do, after more than a year and a half of making the claim. Has samurai been able to get a COLB, if anyone can?)


Oh, wait ... stop. Come to a grinding halt. If Foggy is going to debunk the false statements, suddenly everybody has to go to the Battleground Thread. You see how it works? It isn't time for the mods to step in until AFTER the Birthers have told their side of the issue.



This conspiracy theory is different than the others like the 9/11 Truthers, the Moon Landing denialists, the "second shooter in Dallas" folks. This one is big and getting bigger. It IS a big national issue.

Yesterday in Vegas there was a group meeting of the Conservative Leadership Conference, which admittedly is a self-selected group of the most conservative folks.

When the audience was asked for a show of hands on how many attendees (there were 100 or so) still had questions about where Obama was born, I would say about half of the hands went up.
Source (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/may/25/birthers-are-still-out-there-really):eek: And when Lt. Col. Lakin is sentenced to prison, the issue is going to get even bigger.





Also, the Birther issue was so contentious, inflammatory and out of control that CGP considered banning discussion here altogether. That was then, this is now.

Samurai and I were having a perfectly calm and rational discussion. I can keep that going indefinitely, and I trust that he/she can too.

I think preventing civil discourse on a major national issue except in one thread is just silly, especially since the Birthers here do post their stuff in other threads.

[Suzan]

Originally Posted by Foggy
OK, then please direct me to the one thread where all posts regarding the big, controversial issue of health insurance reform MUST be posted.

I must have missed it.

Here it is. Post #47 in this thread.

If you want to rehash the Birther conspiracy theories, here's the Battleground Thread. Take it there, please!

http://www.commongroundpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=41581

[Suzan]

I don't think so.

Samurai and I were having a perfectly calm and rational discussion. I can keep that going indefinitely, and I trust that he/she can too.

I think preventing civil discourse on a major national issue except in one thread is just silly, especially since the Birthers here do post their stuff in other threads.

Please, feel free to keep the discussion going indefinitely, but use the Birther thread unless you and CGP make other arrangements. And please, direct all further comments about this to him. He made the decision and only he can change it. Thanks.

[foxyladi]

he also said the best thing that happened to him there was meeting Hillary......AWWWWWWWW!!!!:thumbsup::D

[Foggy]

Here it is. Post #47 in this thread.I asked you for a link to the HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM BATTLEGROUND THREAD.

You gave me another link to the Birther battleground thread, which I can find easily, no help needed.

If there's no HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM BATTLEGROUND THREAD, please don't repeat that you start a battleground thread for all the "big, controversial issues" that are discussed here.

[Laura Cereta]

I asked you for a link to the HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM BATTLEGROUND THREAD.

You gave me another link to the Birther battleground thread, which I can find easily, no help needed.

If there's no HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM BATTLEGROUND THREAD, please don't repeat that you start a battleground thread for all the "big, controversial issues" that are discussed here.

There's no need to yell. This (http://www.commongroundpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=55065&highlight=health+care+official+discussion+thread) is the link to the first health care thread, and this (http://www.commongroundpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=55548&highlight=health+care+official+discussion+thread) is the link to the second. I know you may not feel this way, but many people consider health care more important then a conspiracy theory.

[Foggy]

There's no need to yell.OK. It seemed like she didn't understand my post when I used a normal voice.

This (http://www.commongroundpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=55065&highlight=health+care+official+discussion+thread) is the link to the first health care thread, and this (http://www.commongroundpolitics.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=55548&highlight=health+care+official+discussion+thread) is the link to the second. I know you may not feel this way, but many people consider health care more important then a conspiracy theory.But the truth is, that issue has also been argued in dozens of other threads, and neither you nor Suzan have stepped in to steer us to those threads.

Read Spang's "have you lost any freedoms" thread. Do you see arguments regarding the health insurance reform law?

OK, I give up. I'll follow the rule. Every time a birther like samurai makes some outrageously false birther comment in a thread, I'll quote it and put it in the battleground thread.



... and then we'll see if the birthers have the stones to debate me on it. :D

[Laura Cereta]

I'll follow the rule.

Thank you. :)

[greenleaf]

Bill didn't actually use the slang term birthers, but he did briefly refer to those who question Obama's place of birth. That whole topic is a little old, IMO.

I found this Clinton quote much more interesting: "I force myself to listen to people who disagree with me."

That's what I do on this forum. :)

[samurai007]

That was then, this is now.

Samurai and I were having a perfectly calm and rational discussion. I can keep that going indefinitely, and I trust that he/she can too.

I think preventing civil discourse on a major national issue except in one thread is just silly, especially since the Birthers here do post their stuff in other threads.

Believe it or not, I agree with Foggy on this. Discussion threads here, like on all forums (especially political ones) tend to mutate as they grow, becoming about whole other subjects sometimes as a natural part of conversation. Think about when you are talking with someone face to face, how the conversation flows from 1 topic to another, connected by "Oh, that reminds me of..." or "If you think that's bad..." and so on.

[Jim744]

Believe it or not, I agree with Foggy on this. Discussion threads here, like on all forums (especially political ones) tend to mutate as they grow, becoming about whole other subjects sometimes as a natural part of conversation. Think about when you are talking with someone face to face, how the conversation flows from 1 topic to another, connected by "Oh, that reminds me of..." or "If you think that's bad..." and so on.

I agree also.

[Suzan]

But the truth is, that issue has also been argued in dozens of other threads, and neither you nor Suzan have stepped in to steer us to those threads.

Read Spang's "have you lost any freedoms" thread. Do you see arguments regarding the health insurance reform law?

Just to clarify, we do allow leeway on the other big thread issues. The birther thread is the exception because of the legitimacy of the topic and the contentiousness. There's a reason it's called a battleground thread.

[foxyladi]

to post or not to post that is the question????NO!!!
it,s where to post that is the question(and HOW):D