My Partner, an Obama supporter, is starting to express reservations...

[CGP]

My partner is a committed Obama supporter. He voted for him in NY. He has previously defended any & all criticism of him. We have had numerous arguments about the entire campaign. We basically cannot talk about the election. My partner is African-American and is very attached to the idea/dream that Obama's candidacy can undo some of the damage of past racism. He is very sensitive about this and takes attacks on Obama very personally. I don't think he is alone in this regard. He is not an "obamabot". He rarely uses the Internet other than for work and wouldn't even know what I was talking about if I mentioned the word "troll" or "obamabot" or "digg.com" or "dailykos" or anything like that! He is very innocent when it comes to such matters.

But tonight, for the first time, he said "Is Obama imploding?" And I said, "what do you mean?" and he said "well seems like nowadays everytime I turn the TV on there is some new story about the bad company he's been keeping." He went on to say that he would never sit in a church fronted by Rev. Wright nor would he ever allow his children (if he had any) to sit in such a church. He continued on saying that one's reputation is indeed affected by the company one keeps and that Obama was not looking good in this regard. I didn't jump on his comments. I just let him talk and left it at that. Best to allow people to come to their own conclusions about Obama - so I have learned...

A small breakthrough, perhaps. Not that I am trying to enlighten him at all. I don't bother with that. But this was the first time ever my partner has ever expressed any serious criticism or doubt about Obama and I thought it was significant.

There is hope after all!

[HillWill]

there is hope. My best friend is AA, but she has become a fan of progressive talk radio and they feed her many excuses for BO, so I can't even have a normal conversation about politics anymore with her. At least you can have a little!

[leahchamblee]

Could you show this guy the Odinga web site all about change and the no quarter news article that talks about how many children he has mutilated and killed since this began. Also near the end of the Noquarter post, it talks about how Odinga is allied to extremist islamists. In another post on your blog Murray, there is a link that talks about the contract Odinga signed with the Muo. Essentially he will be suppressing christians, Kenya used to be the most democratic nation in Africa. Now with Obama's support it has been taken over by Islamic extremists. I hope that Bush still has his spy machine going and can check to see how much of the Obama campaign funds have gone into Odinga's overthrow of the legitimate government.
It gives me chills.

[Santiago]

Very significant that he is reaching his own conclusions.

[Charlie Brown]

My partner is a committed Obama supporter. He voted for him in NY. He has previously defended any & all criticism of him. We have had numerous arguments about the entire campaign. We basically cannot talk about the election. My partner is African-American and is very attached to the idea/dream that Obama's candidacy can undo some of the damage of past racism. He is very sensitive about this and takes attacks on Obama very personally. I don't think he is alone in this regard. He is not an "obamabot". He rarely uses the Internet other than for work and wouldn't even know what I was talking about if I mentioned the word "troll" or "obamabot" or "digg.com" or "dailykos" or anything like that! He is very innocent when it comes to such matters.

But tonight, for the first time, he said "Is Obama imploding?" And I said, "what do you mean?" and he said "well seems like nowadays everytime I turn the TV on there is some new story about the bad company he's been keeping." He went on to say that he would never sit in a church fronted by Rev. Wright nor would he ever allow his children (if he had any) to sit in such a church. He continued on saying that one's reputation is indeed affected by the company one keeps and that Obama was not looking good in this regard. I didn't jump on his comments. I just let him talk and left it at that. Best to allow people to come to their own conclusions about Obama - so I have learned...

A small breakthrough, perhaps. Not that I am trying to enlighten him at all. I don't bother with that. But this was the first time ever my partner has ever expressed any serious criticism or doubt about Obama and I thought it was significant.

There is hope after all!

MURRAY...WOW OMG THAT HAS TO BE SO HARD...I WOULD HAVE A TERRIBLE TIME KEEPING MY TRAP SHUT...lol! I MEAN YOU MUST BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD TO...IM SORRY HE IS TROUBLED THOUGH...IT WOULD BE HARD TO BE LET DOWN.... DID HE WATCH THEM ON CNN TONIGHT?

[user312]

It gives me chills.

I fear there is more senseless blooding letting ahead.



Murrary: I think you are wise in the tack your taking. It's best your partner come to his own conclusions - give your opinion if asked though.

[CGP]

MURRAY...WOW OMG THAT HAS TO BE SO HARD...I WOULD HAVE A TERRIBLE TIME KEEPING MY TRAP SHUT...lol! I MEAN YOU MUST BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD TO...IM SORRY HE IS TROUBLED THOUGH...IT WOULD BE HARD TO BE LET DOWN.... DID HE WATCH THEM ON CNN TONIGHT?

Well, we have mutually agreed to not make comments about each other's candidate as things were getting out of hand when we would discuss/argue politics! The only peaceful solulution was to not discuss it at all.

No, he didn't watch the "compassion" forum. I think he probably saw some news tonight and that's what led to his comments.

But although he is pro-obama, he supports my efforts with this forum & allows me to take over his bedroom and nice big computer when I type the night away posting comments to Hillary supporters!

[CGP]

Murrary: I think you are wise in the tack your taking. It's best your partner come to his own conclusions - give your opinion if asked though.

Yes, I think this is the best approach. Listen to what the other person has to say and respond only if asked to. Those who are very committed to something don't like to be told they are wrong. Best to let them find the truth themselves and listen when they are ready to discuss it!

[HillWill]

But although he is pro-obama, he supports my efforts with this forum & allows me to take over his bedroom and nice big computer when I type the night away posting comments to Hillary supporters!

Ha! It's amazing you still have a relationship! :p

[leahchamblee]

Ha! It's amazing you still have a relationship! :p

I make up excuses now not to go out with my pro obama friends, it's too much to have to listen to, it's like having to listen to Jesus freaks.

[CGP]

Ha! It's amazing you still have a relationship! :p

I think we are some kind of example that people from opposing political camps can still get along!!!

[ZY123]

I couldn't imagine if my husband was an Obama supporter!! =0

I kid. ;-) It's great you two worked it out.

As is my husband is a hard core Republican and McCain supporter. That said, he has said his first choice of the two Democrats (and thus his second choice) is Hillary and my second choice is McCain so luckily we worked it out.

[HillWill]

I think we are some kind of example that people from opposing political camps can still get along!!!

Absolutely. I know the feeling - it's tough - but the relationship is definitely worth the work and respect for each other's beliefs!:)

[leahchamblee]

in the vein of with 8 you get eggroll

with Obama you get cyanide

Absolutely. I know the feeling - it's tough - but the relationship is definitely worth the work and respect for each other's beliefs!:)

[OkieforHRC2008]

The idea of Obama is very alluring to those that haven't gotten a chance to see someone like themselves in the Whitehouse... I mean, all the men that have won the presidency have been old white guys (for the most part on the old comment). So, it's going to take steps for people to see past the dream of having a black president.

Nevertheless, the Wright issue should change a few people's minds. I know I would never stay in a church with a preacher like that (I think it's wrong to even curse in church but that is just me). Then Obama made the elitist comments about how "bitter" people are in PA, and how they cling to guns and religion. I lived almost 20 years out in RURAL America, and don't feel bitter. I feel hopeful that with Hillary as president, we can move past the issues that separate us.. and onto the issues that matter.

~~OkieforHRC2008

Don't push someone against voting for Obama, draw them into voting for Hillary... Her positives far outweigh his negatives.

[Patricia GA]

My son is for Obama. My daughters and I are for Hillary and so is my husband. I found my son and I were going to end up being angry with one another if we discussed politics...it was becoming the great divide. My son has been talking online with friends for quite awhile and I can tell he has drunk some kool-aid. He started to try and persaude me to change my support a couple of times. I finally told him no more politics. I just decided that if he continues to support Obama then so be it. Not worth dividing families. I did answer the phone call from his wife once recently and said, "This is the Hillary Clinton Campaign Headquarters." His wife laughed and then I proceeded to tell her my sister is working for the campaign at the Hillary Clinton Office in her town. And he made some remark in the background. But I know he thinks my sister and her husband are smart when it comes to many things...so with all that has been in the news...I wonder if he has softened any at all. I dare not bring it up. I just keep hoping more truth will surface. i do not think my son is ready for a women president either. Now he can see his daughter being president...but he is not ready right now. Or it could be he just got bad information on Hillary and has been blinded. I am glad my husband is for Hillary because it would be tough being in the same house. Murray, I think you and your partner are handling it well. And I hope your partner continues to exam things as he is doing now.

[HillWill]

The idea of Obama is very alluring to those that haven't gotten a chance to see someone like themselves in the Whitehouse... I mean, all the men that have won the presidency have been old white guys (for the most part on the old comment). So, it's going to take steps for people to see past the dream of having a black president.

Nevertheless, the Wright issue should change a few people's minds. I know I would never stay in a church with a preacher like that (I think it's wrong to even curse in church but that is just me). Then Obama made the elitist comments about how "bitter" people are in PA, and how they cling to guns and religion. I lived almost 20 years out in RURAL America, and don't feel bitter. I feel hopeful that with Hillary as president, we can move past the issues that separate us.. and onto the issues that matter.

~~OkieforHRC2008

Don't push someone against voting for Obama, draw them into voting for Hillary... Her positives far outweigh his negatives.

Very well said. That is one of the reasons I don't fight with my best friend. I understand her need and desire to see BO in the white house. And, she has also expressed to me that she sees herself as black first, then woman, because as she says, when she is at work or in public, that's what she is looked as first. So, for the sake of not pretending to know how she feels, I felt that we have totally different views on how and why we are supporting two different candidates - and just let it be. thanks for your comments!

[MS BLUEGRASS]

Well, we have mutually agreed to not make comments about each other's candidate as things were getting out of hand when we would discuss/argue politics! The only peaceful solulution was to not discuss it at all.

But although he is pro-obama, he supports my efforts with this forum & allows me to take over his bedroom and nice big computer when I type the night away posting comments to Hillary supporters!

Murray, you are tooo funny! This reminds me of my (26 years) daughter when she was home for X-mas. She is grad student, a film and video major with emphasis on gender studies at U T in Austin. (I have to mention this because she and I are so much alike in our feminist ideas) When she announced she was going to vote for Obama I was totally floored. I actually physically took her by the shoulders and shook her (in a playful way)and ask her if she knew what my life-long work had been about! She was offended and no matter what I said , she was not listening....at least I did not think she was...anyway, the night of the Texas primary, she called me to tell me she voted for Clinton!!!!!:eek::eek: WHAT??? GO FIGURE?

[JMS825]

Murray dont feel bad about your partner we all make mistakes sometimes lol

[CGP]

Murray dont feel bad about your partner we all make mistakes sometimes lol

Ah, no, I made a good choice!

I will give him a "free pass" (sound familiar?) on this one error of judgment!! :)

[JMS825]

Ah, no, I made a good choice!

I will give him a "free pass" (sound familiar?) on this one error of judgment!! :)

Forgive him for he knows not what he has done and guide him through the errors of his way

Sorry felt a little sermon coming on and figured if Obama can give one then why not me lol

[Horizon]

He was the love of my life and claimed to be a Republican.To the point of watching hours of Fox News.He even claimed to love Bill O. So during the Bush/Kerry debacle, we were also having a lot of state and local elections on our ballot. About 3 weeks before our election,remember we are a mail in state, we got our voter handbook which explains which people are what party, what their platform is etc. So, sneaky witch that I am, I convinced him to let me read all the info to him without telling him what party the candidate was or how a liberal or conservative would vote. So he's filling out his ballot as I'm reading this to him. I almost fell off our bed when he handed me his ballot to see how he voted. Not only did he vote against the ban on Gay Marriage, he also voted as a liberal on all our measures and chose all the Democrats running for office. Then checks the box for the W the devil!!! I asked him what the hell is wrong with you? You vote as a Democrat and then choose him?! He had no good answer and just gave me a woeful answer and said he had to vote that way as his whole family is conservative. Whatever. As our relationship headed downhill and he was no longer working,I went so far as to refuse to allow him to watch Fox News.I was a real bitch about it too. I justified it by the fact I was paying the cable bill.We broke up 2 years ago and he moved back to Michigan and I've always wondered if he regrets that. So i understand how hard it is to live with some vote.I understand how hard it is to be on opposite sides of the fence.Believe me,it is better to keep your mouth shut! Hope he comes to his senses.

[MS BLUEGRASS]

He was the love of my life and claimed to be a Republican.To the point of watching hours of Fox News.He even claimed to love Bill O. So during the Bush/Kerry debacle, we were also having a lot of state and local elections on our ballot. About 3 weeks before our election,remember we are a mail in state, we got our voter handbook which explains which people are what party, what their platform is etc. So, sneaky witch that I am, I convinced him to let me read all the info to him without telling him what party the candidate was or how a liberal or conservative would vote. So he's filling out his ballot as I'm reading this to him. I almost fell off our bed when he handed me his ballot to see how he voted. Not only did he vote against the ban on Gay Marriage, he also voted as a liberal on all our measures and chose all the Democrats running for office. Then checks the box for the W the devil!!! I asked him what the hell is wrong with you? You vote as a Democrat and then choose him?! He had no good answer and just gave me a woeful answer and said he had to vote that way as his whole family is conservative. Whatever. As our relationship headed downhill and he was no longer working,I went so far as to refuse to allow him to watch Fox News.I was a real bitch about it too. I justified it by the fact I was paying the cable bill.We broke up 2 years ago and he moved back to Michigan and I've always wondered if he regrets that. So i understand how hard it is to live with some vote.I understand how hard it is to be on opposite sides of the fence.Believe me,it is better to keep your mouth shut! Hope he comes to his senses.

THIS IS THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE READ ON THIS FORUM TONIGHT...HE IS PROBABLY MY NEIGHBOR!

[ZY123]

He was the love of my life and claimed to be a Republican.To the point of watching hours of Fox News.He even claimed to love Bill O. So during the Bush/Kerry debacle, we were also having a lot of state and local elections on our ballot. About 3 weeks before our election,remember we are a mail in state, we got our voter handbook which explains which people are what party, what their platform is etc. So, sneaky witch that I am, I convinced him to let me read all the info to him without telling him what party the candidate was or how a liberal or conservative would vote. So he's filling out his ballot as I'm reading this to him. I almost fell off our bed when he handed me his ballot to see how he voted. Not only did he vote against the ban on Gay Marriage, he also voted as a liberal on all our measures and chose all the Democrats running for office. Then checks the box for the W the devil!!! I asked him what the hell is wrong with you? You vote as a Democrat and then choose him?! He had no good answer and just gave me a woeful answer and said he had to vote that way as his whole family is conservative. Whatever. As our relationship headed downhill and he was no longer working,I went so far as to refuse to allow him to watch Fox News.I was a real bitch about it too. I justified it by the fact I was paying the cable bill.We broke up 2 years ago and he moved back to Michigan and I've always wondered if he regrets that. So i understand how hard it is to live with some vote.I understand how hard it is to be on opposite sides of the fence.Believe me,it is better to keep your mouth shut! Hope he comes to his senses.

LOL - my husband is a Republican (a moderate one - but hard core in that conviction) but it doesn't bother me at all - I knew what I was getting into. He also has a situation in his past that led him where he is politically so I get why. What's cool is this year we can agree on ONE thing - our extreme dislike of Obama's politics...hahahaha...Obama brought us together politically. At least Big O did something good. =P

[JMS825]

He was the love of my life and claimed to be a Republican.To the point of watching hours of Fox News.He even claimed to love Bill O. So during the Bush/Kerry debacle, we were also having a lot of state and local elections on our ballot. About 3 weeks before our election,remember we are a mail in state, we got our voter handbook which explains which people are what party, what their platform is etc. So, sneaky witch that I am, I convinced him to let me read all the info to him without telling him what party the candidate was or how a liberal or conservative would vote. So he's filling out his ballot as I'm reading this to him. I almost fell off our bed when he handed me his ballot to see how he voted. Not only did he vote against the ban on Gay Marriage, he also voted as a liberal on all our measures and chose all the Democrats running for office. Then checks the box for the W the devil!!! I asked him what the hell is wrong with you? You vote as a Democrat and then choose him?! He had no good answer and just gave me a woeful answer and said he had to vote that way as his whole family is conservative. Whatever. As our relationship headed downhill and he was no longer working,I went so far as to refuse to allow him to watch Fox News.I was a real bitch about it too. I justified it by the fact I was paying the cable bill.We broke up 2 years ago and he moved back to Michigan and I've always wondered if he regrets that. So i understand how hard it is to live with some vote.I understand how hard it is to be on opposite sides of the fence.Believe me,it is better to keep your mouth shut! Hope he comes to his senses.

Moral of the story "Vote Democrat or I will be a bitch and you will end up back in Michigan where your votes dont count" lol

[HillWill]

Moral of the story "Vote Democrat or I will be a bitch and you will end up back in Michigan where your votes dont count" lol

OMG! That is too funny! I almost fell off my chair, sitting here in Michigan!

[samkm]

Murray,
You are a very brave soul. My heart warmed to hear that one.. I really cannot imagine..

So, what this tells me is even when the choice has been highly emotional on the grounds of perceived common ground and imputed implications of 'recovery' from past 'transgressions' the fault of wrongful associations is viewed as just that.. and more of these are being noticed.... enough to call it possibly 'implosion.' Quite interesting.

He does know about this website, right?

[WV4Hillary]

I wish I had an Obama supporter in my family. Sounds crazy, I know...but I wanna tell SOMEONE "I told you so!" if he wins the nomination and then, as I predict, wins about 10 states in the general election.

[samkm]

Luckily for us, he is not going to win the nomination. If DNC did not see it before, the current 'small-town' and 'bitter' comments will have made them open their eyes and look at the county-map of USA and the victory pattern; it ayent so pretty after all... and he has lost the non-core base permanently.. and increasingly so as he continues to whine at Hillary for pointing out that she respects PA Americans and sees them as good hardworking people who do their best to keep a positive attitude. She continues to energize people positively and he continues to polarize negatively and give them this promise of nirvana. DNC will see the contrast this time.

[Jayling]

Murray, I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you, and possibly your boyfriend too. You both show such great character and respect for one another while at odds on one of the hottest events taking place right now. Both of you have my respect.

Now a huge wOOt! for him coming forward to you tonight to express his concerns and doubts about Obama. And you, you handled it brilliantly. Let the man talk, don't criticize or push, and let him come to conclusions on his own. Perfect.

I'm really happy to hear this! Thanks for sharing, Mur :)

[MS BLUEGRASS]

I wish I had an Obama supporter in my family. Sounds crazy, I know...but I wanna tell SOMEONE "I told you so!" if he wins the nomination and then, as I predict, wins about 10 states in the general election.

NO, NO.....I REALLY DO NOT THINK YOU DO. I THINK IT WOULD BE A BIT LIKE MURRAY. MY SISTER, WHO JUST JOINED THIS BOARD LAST NIGHT, HAS A HUSBAND WHO IS SUCH A GOP FAN, IT IS UNREAL...I CANNOT STAND TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM WITH HIM WHEN HE STARTS TALKING ABOUT GW. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE, HAVING TO LISTEN TO THAT CR*P ALL THE TIME? I THINK AN OBAMA-MATE WOULD BE ABOUT THE SAME!

MY SIS AND I USED TO POST ON A BOARD WHERE THE MODERATOR WAS THE BIGGEST MYSOGINIST EVER. HE HATED HILLARY CLINTON. WELL, SHE AND I GOT KICKED OFF THAT BOARD ALONG WITH FOUR OTHER "UPPITY WOMEN" BECAUSE HE COULD NOT STAND OUR POLITICS. AS SOON AS HILLARY WINS THIS ELECTION, I AM GOING TO LOG IN TO HIS BOARD FROM THE LIBRARY, AND GIVE HIM THE BIGGEST "TOLD YA SO" EVER! :eek::eek:

[Brooke]

Murray, that's great. And I'm glad you didn't say anything and let him talk. He probably really appreciates that. You guys sound like a great pair!

[Sandy in PA]

Murray--sounds like you got a keeper there! Its just too bad that a person like Obama could cause tension in your relationship.

[greenleaf]

Best to allow people to come to their own conclusions about Obama - so I have learned...

I know that is a wise advice but I have such a problem following it with friends and family! They are being inflenced by a biased media and I keep trying to tell them what the media isn't telling them. In doing so I tend to get too passionate. I'm going to try more patience.

[Linda C]

My biggest concern is with Obama himself. He had not learned the old adage. The more I know..the more I realize I don't know.

We have a sitting President who believes he actually understands the world with little information or cultural education. Obama is another one who has similar attitudes.I don't care if you are a conservative or a liberal in your views. Arrogance and ignorance will always lead to trouble.

The election in Kenya was probably rigged no doubt. However, we cannot have a sitting US Senator going into these countries on his "own self serving quest" and be totally naive about the repercussions of his actions on the political process in that country.


A sitting US Senator actively taking sides in a campaign had damaging effects on the subsequent behaviors of those people. Then the Obama folks referred Dick Morris to help Odinga run and American style campaign focusing on the "haves and have nots" and manipulating the tribal divisions in that country. It was in essence creating and igniting a powder keg by the ignorant and arrogant behaviors of Senator Obama and the work of Dick Morris.

[Charlie Brown]

Well, we have mutually agreed to not make comments about each other's candidate as things were getting out of hand when we would discuss/argue politics! The only peaceful solulution was to not discuss it at all.

No, he didn't watch the "compassion" forum. I think he probably saw some news tonight and that's what led to his comments.

But although he is pro-obama, he supports my efforts with this forum & allows me to take over his bedroom and nice big computer when I type the night away posting comments to Hillary supporters!

THAT IS NICE OF HIM...I DONT KNOW IF I COULD BE THAT GOOD :( THANK YOU MURRAY...I KNOW I TELL YOU THIS EVERYDAY BUT WHAT WOULD WE ALL DO IF WE DIDNT HAVE THIS FORUM AND YOU SO FAITHFUL ON ORGANIZING IT AND THEN THE PROTEST IN NEW YORK ITS ALL SO AMAZING AND HAS GIVEN US HOPE WHERE WE WOULDNT OF HAD IT WITH OUT HILLARYCLINTONFORUM.NET...:o

[ZforHill]

My dad is an Obama supporter, but really, he's just a product of the msm brainwashing.

[EH]

Give it time, Murray, give it time...;)

Fortunately no Kool Aid drinkers in my family. I however have friends who are Repugs or Jonestown residents, and it's not difficult to argue with them. They jump from one argument to the other when they can't give a straight annswer and then finally give up by saying, well, I don't really care who wins!

[Carolyn]

Yes, I think this is the best approach. Listen to what the other person has to say and respond only if asked to. Those who are very committed to something don't like to be told they are wrong. Best to let them find the truth themselves and listen when they are ready to discuss it!

Same dilemma in my household (my husband supports BO) . After a few heated arguments, we agreed not to talk politics. He has been in a mighty bad mood this weekend, though. ;)

[endodoc79]

I guess there is hope for us all. It was great meeting the both of you the other day. I can understand his situtation, feeling a sense of pride that a AA could have the chance to be president. I also have the same feeling about Hillary's candidacy, but that is not the reason I support her. When I critically question my choice for president, I ask is this candidate going to make our life better, do I think this person will act with America's best interests in mind? That is why I support Hillary. I think ultimately people influence by example - and Murray you are a shining beacon of rationality. Combine that with some MSM coverage this weekend that finally was showing some of Obama's warts and you may have someone who is coming around. We are hopeful.

[Area504]

There is hope after all!

Let's all HOPE he will CHANGE his mind!! :D

(couldn't resist, Murray....but that's great news!)

[ginamc]

My partner is a committed Obama supporter. He voted for him in NY. He has previously defended any & all criticism of him. We have had numerous arguments about the entire campaign. We basically cannot talk about the election. My partner is African-American and is very attached to the idea/dream that Obama's candidacy can undo some of the damage of past racism. He is very sensitive about this and takes attacks on Obama very personally. I don't think he is alone in this regard. He is not an "obamabot". He rarely uses the Internet other than for work and wouldn't even know what I was talking about if I mentioned the word "troll" or "obamabot" or "digg.com" or "dailykos" or anything like that! He is very innocent when it comes to such matters.

But tonight, for the first time, he said "Is Obama imploding?" And I said, "what do you mean?" and he said "well seems like nowadays everytime I turn the TV on there is some new story about the bad company he's been keeping." He went on to say that he would never sit in a church fronted by Rev. Wright nor would he ever allow his children (if he had any) to sit in such a church. He continued on saying that one's reputation is indeed affected by the company one keeps and that Obama was not looking good in this regard. I didn't jump on his comments. I just let him talk and left it at that. Best to allow people to come to their own conclusions about Obama - so I have learned...

A small breakthrough, perhaps. Not that I am trying to enlighten him at all. I don't bother with that. But this was the first time ever my partner has ever expressed any serious criticism or doubt about Obama and I thought it was significant.

There is hope after all!

Murray I can totally relate. My fiance is A/A also. I live in S.A., and he lives in Houston, but moving soon. Anyway... we were both BO supporters since 2004. But, as 2007 progressed, and it was time to get serious about my candidate for President, I turned to Hillary, because BO was making less and less sense as time went on. Besides, I am a HUGE Bill fan.

Anyway, my DF and I would argue too about it. He was getting a lot of pressure, and hearing a TON of anti-Hillary crapola from his sister and brother -- nouveau-rich professionals. One is in the Medical Industry like Michelle, and his brother is a Pharmacist. So, they were really pushing the BO party line. But, things really reached a climax when the TX Primary came along -- Latinos are supposed to be racist against Blacks if they vote for Hillary, etc. etc. and, being that I am Latina... well, you can imagine the tension between us. However, we just agreed to disagree, because that really was straining the relationship.

But, as time progressed, I tried to keep things quiet, but just couldn't any longer after the TX Primary-- this BO racist shite was really getting hard for me, because it felt like I didn't really know my DF. So, we did talk about race issues, and now are more comfortable with it, because DF is also seeing behind the cloak of the Greaty, Almighty, Powerful Wizard of Oz. The Rev. Wright is what got to him. My DF's dad is a Pastor, and they did NOT appreciate Wright's comments. They consider them to be anti-Christian, and they pit Blacks in a negative connotation. So, right now he just doesn't even want to look or talk about BO at all. His family is torn about it -- the older folks, parents, aunts, etc. are not on the BO bandwagon. His brother and sister and other peers are. I do believe DF is comng around slowly, because he instinctively knows that BO is a fake and it's pretty much over for him. No matter what happens, BO will NOT be President. It's just sad for him, because I think that he is processing that BO is NOT the great hope that he was made out to be for the AA community. And, when DF is sad, he gets angry. I guess he's going through the stages of grief/loss right now.

Murray-- I know that it's best to be quiet, but you may want to just stay on the topic of race-relations between you two. I know that I had to for my own sake, and the survival of our relationship. I did not want what was playing out in the media to adversely affect my relationship with my DF. He has a lot of relatives that really push the Black with Black ONLY concept, so I really had to have things clear between us. This is a HUGE issue for Interracial couples. It's just that the BO crapola is intensifying it. But, if you can work through it, you can come out stronger as a couple.

[kpmom]

Murray, you and your partner sound like mature, thoughtful men (can you clone yourselves?!). But, I wanted to compliment you that your partner felt safe enough with you to express his reservations about BO w/o fear of "told ya so" type comments from you. You're handling things exactly right. He'll likely come to his own conclusions about BO soon enough. And you're right, the fact that he is starting to have his doubts is significant, and hopefully indicitive of thoughtful, educated AA and whites throughout the country.

[Tea toaD]

I think by not spending time trying to convince each other who's candidate is best is the right thing to do. Sometimes...silence is golden on certain topics. When living in the same household, harmony between partners or spouses is very important:)

[SadStateOfAffairs]

Murray,

I know it has been difficult for Obama supporters to watch these painful slips from their candidate. Most Americans don't have time to follow politics. And then this young, good looking, chrismatic, highly educated, smooth talking fellow who no one knows comes out of nowhere to "change" the world and Walaaa.....you have a contagious candidate that is difficult to stop. And he is black to boot! It's a dream and people really do start to think that perhaps we can change the ills of our coutry. There is "hope".

But, as Bill Kristol pointed out today, working class americans are just now seeing Obama for who he really is. No one. Who has done nothing. Things we here at the forum already know. And you are correct to tread lightly with your partner. I found that with my own dealings with Obama supporters. It's very personal and here we are telling them that this is no "Change or Hope" with Obama. It's crushing news. I always ask these supporters what Obama has accomplished and pretty much leave it at that unless they want to discuss in more detail.

Other than reach out to his own community in Chicago (and for political gain only IMHO) what has Barack done for the AA community? Where was he when Katrina hit? They only guy I saw in New Orleans trying to round up some help for the Katrina victims was Anderson Cooper. How much money did TUCC donate to Katrina victims. I know the Clintons donated 3 million via their foundation.

Barack is using the AA community and it's disgusting. He even portrays himself as an African American when he really isn't. He's actually an arab/cacasian american. Heck, he doesn't even like americans or the country for that matter as far as I can tell.

[BooskerD]

[QUOTE=kpmom;50941, I wanted to compliment you that your partner felt safe enough with you to express his reservations about BO w/o fear of "told ya so" type comments from you. You're handling things exactly right. He'll likely come to his own conclusions about BO soon enough. And you're right, the fact that he is starting to have his doubts is significant, and hopefully indicitive of thoughtful, educated AA and whites throughout the country.[/QUOTE]

I agree. It would be very difficult to peacefully co-exist in this situation. I don't know how you do it, but agree with kpmom...your behavior must be such that your partner knew he wouldn't be barraged with anti-Obama statements and "I told you sos". Perhaps a few of Obama's supporters will come around yet...this brings me a bit of hope.

[HRH Jorge]

My best friend is African American (As a latino from NYC, who went to a predominiately African American High School - it's almost a given!) and she has been a Hillary Supporter since the begining of the race.

She usually takes her political cues from me (I'm the political junkie between us)- but I didn't really want to stear her thinking on this one because the sense of ethnic pride in presidential politics is very important to people.

Secretly I am SOOOO GLAD she has seen the truth (THATS WHY SHE's MY BEST FRIEND). If she would have supported Obama (as we live together- a gay and his fag hag) it would have been impossible to talk about the race at home.

HRH

[Les33]

I've admired your relationship from afar, Murray. A true test of love.

I arrived at work this morning to find an envelope on my chair with my name on front and my friend's name on back, and a magnet with Hillary's picture inside. This friend voted for Obama in the primary. I'm not sure what this means, but I really like the magnet.

[movingtous]

My husband, French liberal, was really pro-Obama about a year ago. After Super Tuesday, he started supporting Hillary, for me, but he still thought Obama would win. When the Wright incident occurred, he said that Obama was through. Now, he's saying that there is no way Obama would get elected, and he's finally seeing what I've been saying all along! Better late than never.:p

[freethinker]

Murray, I give you a lot of credit!

My in-laws, latte libs are so Probama and anti hillary/clintons I have to hide my support. They are very well informed, news junkies. There is major misogyny, elitist contempt, white guilt going on. Their characterizations of Hillary are offensive. We barely speak lately because they are so actively hostile to her and apologists for him.

OTOH, I have a very different feeling about some of the other BO supporters. I see alot of peeps who simply don't follow the news too closely and believe the little they hear from the biased press.

I also think voting "identity" can be a legitimate factor, especially for minorities who have been historically unrepresented (women, blacks)! Its not inherently reverse racism or sexism to vote for a person you believe understands your issues better!!

In fact, if Hillary wasn't in the contest and BO wasn't such an incredibly morally bankrupt miscreant, all other factors being equal, I'd be campaigning for him. So I get it. So how I feel about BO supporters depends on the situation.

I'm lucky. My DH is for McCain first and Hillary second. He supports everything I do for Hillary and is very much on board with a lot of the issues. His main thing is having a strong defense, worried about US security. I'm working on that by showing him how Hill's the one to do the job!! We are single-minded in our loathing of BO. Makes it easier.

I give you so much credit, Murray!

[LJSNAustin]

I make up excuses now not to go out with my pro obama friends, it's too much to have to listen to, it's like having to listen to Jesus freaks.

I agree, Leah. I am completely avoiding one of my very best friends who I'm 99% sure is pro-Oblahma. I just want to pretend that she's smarter than that, and if I even hear one word from her about Oblahma I will blow a gasket. I do not want to risk losing that friendship, and I'm just taking this too personally right now to even go there.

I have lost one friend already--a bot who continued to spam me with hateful anti-Hillary stuff even after I asked him to stop. He then started acting like his messiah and bullying me. End of friendship. Who needs it?

[hillary4change]

A small breakthrough, perhaps. Not that I am trying to enlighten him at all. I don't bother with that. But this was the first time ever my partner has ever expressed any serious criticism or doubt about Obama and I thought it was significant.

There is hope after all!

Murray,
That is so good that you two are able to reach across such a wide devide. Having different political ideas is really hard.
As I read your post I could here the compassion for your partner. The understanding for his inner struggle. It made me see the struggle A.A's are having with this decision a little differently. I had heard of the struggle with the race issue and deciding, but you just made it more human I guess.
I maybe need to be more sensitive of that, I have never said anything to anyone about it. I just hadn't gotten it.
Kudos to you for showing compassion, which is something I have noticed in you before, in regards to the struggles of women. You can relate to our struggles because of your own personal struggles.
Kudos to you for making something a little clearer to me, that I hadn't understood as well as I should have.
I don't know what you are going to school for, but I hope it involves relating to people in some way, you are so good at that.

[LJSNAustin]

Jonestown residents

ROTFL!!!!

[Annie]

Could you show this guy the Odinga web site all about change and the no quarter news article that talks about how many children he has mutilated and killed since this began. Also near the end of the Noquarter post, it talks about how Odinga is allied to extremist islamists. In another post on your blog Murray, there is a link that talks about the contract Odinga signed with the Muo. Essentially he will be suppressing christians, Kenya used to be the most democratic nation in Africa. Now with Obama's support it has been taken over by Islamic extremists. I hope that Bush still has his spy machine going and can check to see how much of the Obama campaign funds have gone into Odinga's overthrow of the legitimate government.
It gives me chills.

Thanks God for someone pointing the obvious out....It has to be brought out in the media and newspapers and from the Hillary campaign now. There is so much it is ridiculous not to have been shown to the voters by now. Not just ridiculous - downright dangerous as the McCain thing just might not work - they have already begun targeting McCain on his age.....his memory; agesm, sexism,media bias - it is all there ready for Bo's taking if it isn't stopped NOW. The dimocrats will defend teflon man to the end.

[Artists4Hillary]

The James Carville-Mary Matlin and Arnold Schwarznegger-Maria Shriver marriages work, and their careers are politics. So if they can do it, anyone can. Murray, I think your approach is exactly what keeps a relationship together.

[Annie]

Very well said. That is one of the reasons I don't fight with my best friend. I understand her need and desire to see BO in the white house. And, she has also expressed to me that she sees herself as black first, then woman, because as she says, when she is at work or in public, that's what she is looked as first. So, for the sake of not pretending to know how she feels, I felt that we have totally different views on how and why we are supporting two different candidates - and just let it be. thanks for your comments!


All very well to want to see someone in the White House but do all these Obama supporters really know his history and what he is really ab out? It totally confuses me and I think it must be because the media have been so darn constant in their bias for Obama and not bringing up the really bad and damning issues concerning him. It is up to us to do that. America will be in a very bad place if Obama gets the nomination. Now more than ever we need a good and real democrat in the white house - if not Hillary then it has to be McCain as we at least know he is a Patriot and loves America. Sorry but I can't see how the obvious is so obscured.

My husband is angry and so am I with the obfuscation of Obama clouding the real issues. It is not a joke any more.

[mkreyns]

I fear there is more senseless blooding letting ahead.



Murrary: I think you are wise in the tack your taking. It's best your partner come to his own conclusions - give your opinion if asked though.

I sure hope there will be a whole lot of blood letting for Obama. He absolutely has no tact! He goes to his billionaire supporters and snickers about hard working people behind closed doors, playing two sides against the middle.

The comment about delivering the message of hope to the hard workers in the middle class from a 46 year old black man that knows nothing about any issues except foreign affairs. What an idiot!

[Suzan]

I'm coming late to this thread, but I agree completely that you couldn't be handling this better, Murray.

Also, your partner sounds like a quiet Obama supporter. I don't see many of those out there, and thank God you've got one! Otherwise, it might be very difficult.

I just love that he's starting to see the light. And you're so smart to have let him do it on his own. You two sound as if you're made for each other. Best wishes to you both!

[CGP]

THAT IS NICE OF HIM...I DONT KNOW IF I COULD BE THAT GOOD :( THANK YOU MURRAY...I KNOW I TELL YOU THIS EVERYDAY BUT WHAT WOULD WE ALL DO IF WE DIDNT HAVE THIS FORUM AND YOU SO FAITHFUL ON ORGANIZING IT AND THEN THE PROTEST IN NEW YORK ITS ALL SO AMAZING AND HAS GIVEN US HOPE WHERE WE WOULDNT OF HAD IT WITH OUT HILLARYCLINTONFORUM.NET...:o

Thanks for the kind words!

[CGP]

As I read your post I could here the compassion for your partner. The understanding for his inner struggle. It made me see the struggle A.A's are having with this decision a little differently. I had heard of the struggle with the race issue and deciding, but you just made it more human I guess.
I maybe need to be more sensitive of that, I have never said anything to anyone about it. I just hadn't gotten it.

This is one of the key reasons I have been so offended by the way in which Obama has systematically USED African-American people for his own political gain. He has tried to link his candidacy to the struggles of generations of black people and has tried to con black (and white) voters into thinking voting for him would somehow be a vote for undying the injustices of the past and present. Wrong. Perhaps if he were a more sincere, honest and ethical candidate this may have been the case. Unfortunately, throughout this campaign Obama has consistently displayed insincerity, dishonesty and bad ethics - as such, he can never be the figure of hope, change and unity he has tried to con people into believing he is. This is what angers me - the way in which he has taken advantage of the personal struggles of generations of black people in this country and tried to capatilize on these for his own selfish gain. Shameful. And what has he given back to black voters? Nothing. How cheaply he has treated their votes. When the reality of this massive con sinks in, many black voters will be angry and sad and rightfully so.

[SoCal4Hillary]

A small breakthrough, perhaps. Not that I am trying to enlighten him at all. I don't bother with that. But this was the first time ever my partner has ever expressed any serious criticism or doubt about Obama and I thought it was significant.

There is hope after all!Could you pass some of that hope over to my daughter and son-in-law?! They're not far from you...maybe you could pay them a visit? ;)

Seriously, though, it's very gratifying to hear that your partner is starting to question Obama, and while it may be a small breakthrough, it *IS* a breakthrough. Who knows where his thoughts/questions will take him next?

[SantaCruzen]

We all need heroes. Fortunate for African Americans, there are many. There will be many more. Mayor Nutter is one. He is crushable too. Maybe pull up some of the video peices on him and act like you are researching what he said about Obama. Or, at least bring up the fact that there are other role models in the AA community. Face it, Martin Luther King,Jr. was warning his own people that the Rev. "Goddamn America"s were not what his community needed to condone. He was warning them in 1967. Other people will model themselves after people like MLK and others. There is hope that the AA community will heal out of the funk if depression over the old models of oppression and suppression. There is Hope at the end of all this Bitterness.