the Florida Delegate Negotiations have begun!

[Renee in Florida]

Today Gov Charlie Christ called the DNC disenranchisement of 1.7 million Dems unconscionable. Tonight Rep Debbie Wasserman Schult of South Florida met at the capital tonight with other Florida leaders , yet nothing has been decided. This just in at 11 pm est!

Apparently to revote would cost the state $18 million. Gov christ wants to invoice the DNc for this, and I agree should it come to a revote. The DNC needs to foot the bill.

better solution: Hoard Dean just come off your pompous horse and let the jan 29th primary stand!!!! However he continues to say the rules cant be changed i the middleof the game.

But I do think Dean is starting to realize that leave us out and we wont be there in November for the DEMS!!!

Everyone keep pressure on the DNC for Florida and Michigan to count!!!!

[bernie gagliano]

I recommended this a month ago:

Deduct 25% of the total delegates from Florida and Michigan.
This enforces the rules, but empowers the voters.

The argument against it does not exist.

Michigan requires a closer analysis of the campaign there.
Hillary, Dodd and Kuchinch left their names on the ballot.
Obama ran a financed campaign against Hillary under Undecided.
He mobilized and advertised and used his organization. Why else was there 42% Undecided. Like Michiganers can't make up there minds, but swarm to the polls to tell everyone they don't up from down?

Examining the exit polls at CNN on Michigan you will see the precise breakdown for any election Obama's name was on the ballot in the Undecided name categories.

So, he was there--in shadow form.

And we all know he spent money on TV ads in Florida for well over a week right up to the election. The only candidate that broke the rules.

So, reasonable persons can say both elections were fair and square. And they follow the patern before and after. They were primaries in big states and Hillary wins all of them except the squeeky close Missouri primary.

The delegates from both states (reduced in total to 75% of their normal total) could be credentialed.

This would happen if Obama won and needed them.

But Hillary? Well for the tenth time tonight, Roland Martin has promised he will lead the riots(hell to pay) from his Blog and radio show if Hillary wins, any way she wins.

And so have I heard many other black commentators that there will be trouble
if Obama does not get the nomination. It is as simple as that. Trouble.

And we all know what that means, don't we whitey? Hell to pay, Trouble?

So the Blacks are being told by their spokespeople and leaders to go violent if necessary to bring Hope and Inspiration. Sort of turning MLK's dream and example into Stokely Carmichael and Black Panther demagoguery.

If the people of Florida and Michigan want to keep control of the results, they must get physical and mobilize in a huge public protest.

When the DNC sees the public rage and coordination, they will collapse. Tyrants fear mobs. A protest crowd, massive, organized will send the message. Petitions are easily dismissed. 100,000 people in the streets with a permit to march and Hillary speaking to you all would bring the world press.

[johnny51981]

I do think that the DNC should be the ones to correct it based on what the state wants....HOWEVER, the money that the DNC spends on this correction, would most likely take away from their nominee's campaign for the General Election...no?

[skc1976]

Let's just hope this doesn't become a caucus. There's only one person that would favor in Florida!

[CGP]

Let's just hope this doesn't become a caucus. There's only one person that would favor in Florida!

NO CAUCUSES! THEY SUCK! THEY ARE A CHEATER'S PARADISE!

[skc1976]

But Hillary? Well for the tenth time tonight, Roland Martin has promised he will lead the riots(hell to pay) from his Blog and radio show if Hillary wins, any way she wins.

And so have I heard many other black commentators that there will be trouble
if Obama does not get the nomination. It is as simple as that. Trouble.

And we all know what that means, don't we whitey? Hell to pay, Trouble?

So the Blacks are being told by their spokespeople and leaders to go violent if necessary to bring Hope and Inspiration. Sort of turning MLK's dream and example into Stokely Carmichael and Black Panther demagoguery.

You know, if this is true, then this is just as racist as if white people were screaming about it. I don't see why it's acceptable for for African-Americans to pull race issues but Caucasians cannot because then they are racist. I'm so sick of this double standard.

[skc1976]

NO CAUCUSES! THEY SUCK! THEY ARE A CHEATER'S PARADISE!

And I cannot picture those older Floridians getting out there to caucus for Hillary. It would be nothing but students and younger Americans.

[RAFREE]

So, reasonable persons can say both elections were fair and square. And they follow the patern before and after. They were primaries in big states and Hillary wins all of them except the squeeky close Missouri primary.

The delegates from both states (reduced in total to 75% of their normal total) could be credentialed.

This would happen if Obama won and needed them.

But Hillary? Well for the tenth time tonight, Roland Martin has promised he will lead the riots(hell to pay) from his Blog and radio show if Hillary wins, any way she wins.

And so have I heard many other black commentators that there will be trouble
if Obama does not get the nomination. It is as simple as that. Trouble.

And we all know what that means, don't we whitey? Hell to pay, Trouble?

So the Blacks are being told by their spokespeople and leaders to go violent if necessary to bring Hope and Inspiration. Sort of turning MLK's dream and example into Stokely Carmichael and Black Panther demagoguery.


So Bernie, what do you think of Obama getting away with being a "uniter" now? I know what I think, if there are riots the blame will lay squarely at Obama's feet for not quelling this sort of talk right NOW and it's another reason he will never, ever get my vote. He wont' say anything about this sort of talk.

Go violent?? It's not Hillary Clinton's doing if they encourage such violence. People will NOT be impressed at all. Obama is being terribly irresponsible right now. Not at ALL what I want for a president. What will he do as president then when a group disagrees with what HE wants? Will he put "fear" In the air again and again. Because staying silent is the same thing as condoning this.

Where again, I ask you is the PRESS on this!!!!!!! This would be his undoing if it made the news.

[skc1976]

Where again, I ask you is the PRESS on this!!!!!!! This would be his undoing if it made the news.

Hmmm, if I recall correctly, this guy is one of the pundits on CNN. They are the press. So, in relation to your question...GO FIGURE!

If he feels this way, then CNN needs to cut some ties!

[RAFREE]

Hmmm, if I recall correctly, this guy is one of the pundits on CNN. They are the press. So, in relation to your question...GO FIGURE!

If he feels this way, then CNN needs to cut some ties!

Well, I just heard where they are five minutes AGO, Sean Hannity was saying they'd be enraged, and would be right and there would be violence! He was ENCOURAGING it!

He said Obama was up a million votes which he is not, they are three thousand apart. But he was actually saying she would be cheating and reminded people of the violence that was threatened and saying he understood it, i.e. encouraging it!!

[skc1976]

Well, I just heard where they are five minutes AGO, Sean Hannity was saying they'd be enraged, and would be right and there would be violence! He was ENCOURAGING it!

He said Obama was up a million votes which he is not, they are three thousand apart. But he was actually saying she would be cheating and reminded people of the violence that was threatened and saying he understood it, i.e. encouraging it!!

This is disgusting. Now who is using "fear tactics?" Obama may preach unity, but his supporters are dismantling it more and more by the day.

[Jayling]

I swear, the media fans the flame with their nonstop blathering. We don't have news networks anymore -- they're just a bunch of Entertainment Reporters.

These threats of violence are absolutely disgusting. If Obama and his crew don't denounce this publicly, they'll be as much to blame as the instigators & those who would take to violence. Right here and now, we hold them responsible.

Oh, and a note that's very important -- the numbers they keep trying to force into people's brains are NOT up to date. It isn't Hillary who is behind in the popular vote totals with Michigan & Florida included. FoxNews kept saying she is behind by around 3,000. That is not accurate.

I just spent the last several hours going back to the Secretary of State's websites to get the latest numbers (new ballots are still coming in from much earlier elections), and here's where we stand as of tonight:

Popular Vote with Florida & Michigan:
Clinton - 13,629,380
Obama - 13,605,622

Hillary is ahead by 23,758 voters. (Fox kept saying she was behind by around 3,000)
-----

Popular Vote by disenfranchising FL & MI:
Clinton - 12,430,085
Obama - 13,029,408

Obama is ahead by 599,323 voters (by snubbing the people)

aargh! They drive me bonkers with their fuzzy math...

Jayling

[skc1976]

It's apparent that the media is trying to twist things to reflect the way they want to see things. It makes for a better story for them if they keep Obama ahead.

[RAFREE]

I swear, the media fans the flame with their nonstop blathering. We don't have news networks anymore -- they're just a bunch of Entertainment Reporters.

These threats of violence are absolutely disgusting. If Obama and his crew don't denounce this publicly, they'll be as much to blame as the instigators & those who would take to violence. Right here and now, we hold them responsible.

Oh, and a note that's very important -- the numbers they keep trying to force into people's brains are NOT up to date. It isn't Hillary who is behind in the popular vote totals with Michigan & Florida included. FoxNews kept saying she is behind by around 3,000. That is not accurate.

I just spent the last several hours going back to the Secretary of State's websites to get the latest numbers (new ballots are still coming in from much earlier elections), and here's where we stand as of tonight:

Popular Vote with Florida & Michigan:
Clinton - 13,629,380
Obama - 13,605,622

Hillary is ahead by 23,758 voters. (Fox kept saying she was behind by around 3,000)
-----

Popular Vote by disenfranchising FL & MI:
Clinton - 12,430,085
Obama - 13,029,408

Obama is ahead by 599,323 voters (by snubbing the people)

aargh! They drive me bonkers with their fuzzy math...

Jayling

Hannity spun this that Hillary wants to cheat and that should put off voters since she hasn't got any moral character!! He has his facts ALL messed UP to back up his rhetoric.

[skc1976]

Hannity spun this that Hillary wants to cheat and that should put off voters since she hasn't got any moral character!! He has his facts ALL messed UP to back up his rhetoric.

It's amazing what some of these pundits will go to in order to make sure their facts are correct. Sometimes I wish I was one just so I could put a spin on things.

[CGP]

Hannity spun this that Hillary wants to cheat and that should put off voters since she hasn't got any moral character!! He has his facts ALL messed UP to back up his rhetoric.

Hannity's opinion counts for NOTHING!

[RAFREE]

It's amazing what some of these pundits will go to in order to make sure their facts are correct. Sometimes I wish I was one just so I could put a spin on things.

I say this could work to her advantage actually. If Obama doesn't come out and say something and stop the threats against the super delegates then he could be seen as encouraging violence. Soooo, if she goes right on ahead to get those delegates seated then IF they keep up the threats it will look TERRIBLE for Obama and his ability to "unite" ANYONE!

[skc1976]

I say this could work to her advantage actually. If Obama doesn't come out and say something and stop the threats against the super delegates then he could be seen as encouraging violence. Soooo, if she goes right on ahead to get those delegates seated then IF they keep up the threats it will look TERRIBLE for Obama and his ability to "unite" ANYONE!

But the question is will the media actually portray this accurately or with that Obama spin they seem to put on things. It's a matter of getting these threats out to the public so they can see how power hungry he is at the expense of the party and promoting racism from the other side.

[RAFREE]

Hannity's opinion counts for NOTHING!

Not with thinking people but, the low tactic of actually encouraging this type of behavior will be heard by those who might be leaning towards doing it in the Obama camp. Since he already knows that some of the delegates have been threatened....these people WANT something really, really bad to happen.

[1950democrat]

I recommended this a month ago:

Deduct 25% of the total delegates from Florida and Michigan.

Disagree! That penalizes HIllary and the voters for something that was not their fault. The count should stand as is. The DNC can slap Florida with some other sort of fig leaf, such as withholding funding for them next year.

Better, Brazile's decision against Florida was not a 'rule' but a 'ruling'. The FL GOP legislature caused this problem by setting an early primary date over the protests of the FL Dems. They appealed to the DNC for an exception (as was given to some other states) but Brazile 'ruled' that they hadn't tried hard enough to fight the legislature! She just needs to reverse her 'ruling' or her 'sentence.'

In any case, the rest of the Supers know what happened here, so they can vote to correct the outcome, along with the rest of Obama's gaming.

[lanesharon]

Nothing will be done unless we put pressure on all parties from the outside. Please, sign this petition:
http://florida-delegates/com/petition/

And, pass the link and info from the pages on to others, LOTS of others. I am having a very difficult time getting people to participate in this. They believe that if they signed a Michigan/Florida combined petition, then they have petition for each state. This is not true!

Michigan can not be allowed because counting votes there, considering the details of the ballot, would not be allowable by Michigan and Federal law. And, no judge would award them. But, Florida is legally different. All candidates were on the ballot, all the i's were dotted, and t's were crossed. It is arguable.

When you have signed petitions, you must state the purpose, up front. You cannot use those signatures, legally, for any other purpose. So, I cannot use signatures from any petitions other than my own Florida Only petition. PLEASE HELP!

Take Care, Sharon
http://florida-delegates.com/petition/
http://texas-caucus.blogspot.com/

[SantaCruzen]

Apparently, the Obama Camp is the real stall on this issue. Obama signs an agreement to not advertise in FL/MI. He breaks that agreement. His camp needs to pay something for breaking the rules!

[Jayling]

Nothing will be done unless we put pressure on all parties from the outside. Please, sign this petition:
http://florida-delegates.com/petition/

And, pass the link and info from the pages on to others, LOTS of others. I am having a very difficult time getting people to participate in this. They believe that if they signed a Michigan/Florida combined petition, then they have petition for each state. This is not true!

Michigan can not be allowed because counting votes there, considering the details of the ballot, would not be allowable by Michigan and Federal law. And, no judge would award them. But, Florida is legally different. All candidates were on the ballot, all the i's were dotted, and t's were crossed. It is arguable.

When you have signed petitions, you must state the purpose, up front. You cannot use those signatures, legally, for any other purpose. So, I cannot use signatures from any petitions other than my own Florida Only petition. PLEASE HELP!

Take Care, Sharon
http://florida-delegates.com/petition/
http://texas-caucus.blogspot.com/

Done! Thanks for spearheading this, Sharon :)

Jayling

[LetsHelpAmerica]

Today Gov Charlie Christ called the DNC disenranchisement of 1.7 million Dems unconscionable. Tonight Rep Debbie Wasserman Schult of South Florida met at the capital tonight with other Florida leaders , yet nothing has been decided. This just in at 11 pm est!

Apparently to revote would cost the state $18 million. Gov christ wants to invoice the DNc for this, and I agree should it come to a revote. The DNC needs to foot the bill.

better solution: Hoard Dean just come off your pompous horse and let the jan 29th primary stand!!!! However he continues to say the rules cant be changed i the middleof the game.

But I do think Dean is starting to realize that leave us out and we wont be there in November for the DEMS!!!

Everyone keep pressure on the DNC for Florida and Michigan to count!!!!

This whole democratic primary election reeks of biased, unfair and, in many cases, absolutely stupid motions. Who, in their right mind, would think that the state of Florida will put up with having their voices silenced yet another time? Nor should Michigan! I'm not sure just how this should play out, but one thing is certain: The Florida and Michigan votes need to be recognized. AND, NO caucaus should be allowed. This is obviously a disadvantage to Hillary's constituency.
Congress needs to propose a method by which this country can manage to vote in a fair and reasonable manner where ALL votes are equal and counted! The Caucaus needs to be eliminated and , in this day and age, can we not simplify things to the popular vote?

[Renee in Florida]

We in FLORIDA will not put up with silencing our votes, like what happened to us in 2000.

Howard Dean you either make us count and NOW, or we will defect, and ruin the Democratic party for NOVEMBER!! We will not vote for your manufactured ball of fluff called Obama, we will cross over to Mccain!!!

Not a threat, a promise!!!!

[skc1976]

We in FLORIDA will not put up with silencing our votes, like what happened to us in 2000.

Howard Dean you either make us count and NOW, or we will defect, and ruin the Democratic party for NOVEMBER!! We will not vote for your manufactured ball of fluff called Obama, we will cross over to Mccain!!!

Not a threat, a promise!!!!

Knowing how ignorant Howard Dean is, he probably doesn't think that Florida will matter in November because democrat golden boy Obama is winning in red states. What he fails to realize is that all states have primaries and caucuses, not just red ones or blue ones. But knowing him, he hasn't thought that through yet.

And it would serve the DNC right if both Michigan and Florida did vote McCain in November if Obama's running. Given how Hillary has fought for them, I'm sure Florida and Michigan would back her a lot better than they would Obama.