View Full Version : is this hopeless? (ADMIN EDIT - NO, IT'S NOT HOPELESS)
there is so much information being released that i am having trouble understanding it all.
i read a news article that says it is already beyond senator clinton's grasp to win the nomination.
"It is very difficult to see any scenario that Hillary Clinton would get the nomination in a way that doesn't rip the party apart," said Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, an Obama supporter. "I think that it would be a terrible mistake for the Democrats to not accept the will of the people who have turned out in primaries and caucuses."
it went on to say that the superdelegates have all pretty much decided that obama will receive their support because he has the popular wins.
i don't know what to believe with so many differing articles.
i am very sick of obama and his smugness and the viciousness i experience from his "fans/supporters". i fear what will happen to this country if he were to actually win the presidency.
Renee in Florida
03-06-2008, 09:49 PM
they are having kittens about the turnaround in this campaign.
Please realize this. Hillary is behind by approx 100 delegates. THATS ALL!
Florida will get her 105 delegates when this is resolved, Michigan around 80.
We are going to win PA. kentucky, Indiana, and other states.
We are going to stop the defection of the Superdelegates.
Translation: dont listen to the Obama spin machine. Their losses on march 4th have basically killed them.!!
The Dems cannot win in November without a candidate who can win the BIG states, not the small caucus states only!!!!
Linda C
03-06-2008, 09:57 PM
It is the Obama campaign using the "new math". It will not tear the party apart. We are democrats..not republicans. We live for this stuff.:D
there is so much information being released that i am having trouble understanding it all.
i read a news article that says it is already beyond senator clinton's grasp to win the nomination.
"It is very difficult to see any scenario that Hillary Clinton would get the nomination in a way that doesn't rip the party apart," said Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, an Obama supporter. "I think that it would be a terrible mistake for the Democrats to not accept the will of the people who have turned out in primaries and caucuses."
it went on to say that the superdelegates have all pretty much decided that obama will receive their support because he has the popular wins.
i don't know what to believe with so many differing articles.
i am very sick of obama and his smugness and the viciousness i experience from his "fans/supporters". i fear what will happen to this country if he were to actually win the presidency.
OBAMA PROPAGANDA FROM AN OBAMA SUPPORTER - IGNORE IT!
"It is very difficult to see any scenario that Hillary Clinton would get the nomination in a way that doesn't rip the party apart," said Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, an Obama supporter. "I think that it would be a terrible mistake for the Democrats to not accept the will of the people who have turned out in primaries and caucuses."
EXCUSE ME??
50% of voters in the primaries DID NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA!!!
SEE EXIT POLLS - MAJORITY OF REGISTERED DEMOCRATS VOTE CLINTON!!!
SO WHO'S WILL ARE WE TALKING ABOUT MR DOYLE????
We should not be giving voice to propaganda from Obama supporters!
joeysky18
03-06-2008, 10:02 PM
My advice, Ignore it.
They are not doing a simple math. They are trying to do a "calculus" to make the number favor Obama. All these attempts are to sooth their fear.
She's going to win the nomination. We know it. And they know it.
His surrogates and colluders are trying to con people with this propaganda. Do not fall for it.
LetsHelpAmerica
03-06-2008, 10:08 PM
there is so much information being released that i am having trouble understanding it all.
i read a news article that says it is already beyond senator clinton's grasp to win the nomination.
it went on to say that the superdelegates have all pretty much decided that obama will receive their support because he has the popular wins.
i don't know what to believe with so many differing articles.
i am very sick of obama and his smugness and the viciousness i experience from his "fans/supporters". i fear what will happen to this country if he were to actually win the presidency.
Trust me, it is far from over!! Mr Obama's camp would love for you to think that...in fact, that's his spin because he's desparate!! Hillary has momentum and people are growing a wee bit sick of rhetoric. In other words, the kool-aid is wearing off!
SantaCruzen
03-06-2008, 10:10 PM
The Obama people are all about reframing reality. They are being led by a terrific actor. If BO had his way, we all believe that he won Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island. He barely concedes his losses.
Did he lose?
Yes He Did.
Yes He Can.
Here is a ditty from the HRC HQ:
New Network Estimates: Hillary Now Leads Sen. Obama in Popular Vote
3/6/2008 5:11:03 PM
ABC & NBC reporting that Hillary’s received thousands more votes than Sen. Obama in this year’s contests
Hillary Clinton has received more votes than anyone else running for President this year, Democrat or Republican, according to new estimates from ABC and NBC News. The new numbers -- bolstered by decisive wins in Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island. Following are the latest estimates from the networks:
ABC: Hillary Clinton has received 13,568,891 votes so far in primaries and caucuses while Sen. Obama has received 13,565,339.
NBC/MSNBC: Hillary Clinton has received 13,521,832 votes so far in primaries and caucuses while Sen. Obama has received 13,497,175.
In addition to the overall lead in votes, Hillary holds a significant lead in votes among Democrats. Hillary has received nearly 10.3 million votes among Democrats so far while Sen. Obama has received 9.2 million.
http://www.delegatehub.com/archive/?id=6399
Patsy
03-06-2008, 10:11 PM
Spin. Spin. Spin.
17% of the Democrats have not voted yet.
Hillary is conceding nothing.
Ads up in WY and Bill there too.
Already scandal in MS started by BO camp.
Currently, neither candidate can reach the magic number w/o FL and MI which we know goes to Hillary.
Oblahma* (I "borrowed" that from someone on this Forum, they said it was OK:)) has not won a single state except IL that will matter to the Dems in Nov.
This election is no longer about "the new math" it is all about WHO CAN WIN IN NOV.
And, Hillary was spot on with her statement about Ohio. As Ohio goes, so goes the Nation. No President has been elected without winning Ohio.
So, we move forward to the remaining 17%, with conviction, power and organization.
Oblahma* is the one who is tearing this Party ( and country) apart on racial and gender lines, not Hillary.
Kool-Aid eventually wears off.
So, keep the faith and work your fingers to the bone for what we believe in!
Kitty
bernie gagliano
03-06-2008, 10:27 PM
Hillary is going to demonstrate conclusively that she is the best to head the ticket.
Obama will demonstrate he is weak, ineffective, needs caucuses and has no resume.
All Hillary needs is more money, big wins in Pennsylvania, and working against him in every election, conceding no delegate anywhere.
As we move forward she is projecting to her strengths. Trust Hillary and Bill the nomination is coming to her if she keeps the pressure on and does Town Halls, and runs hard on her strengths.
The Super delegates will see that Obama will be chopped meat by the time the convention arrives. The three months ahead are a greased pole for Obama.
He has peaked. Hillary will have demonstrated she can win against McCain who also will have many months of freefall with the American middle class.
We already saw in Texas 8-9% Republican crossover to Hillary. I heard it on the phone calls to Texas. Not much Republican support for Obama. Plenty for Hillary versus both of them. She can pick up most of the lost black vote who will stay home if Obama is not at the head of the ticket.
And unless Obama as VP is the only way she can get the nomination then she will put him on the ticket.
There is plenty of shifting that is going to go on with pledged delegates too.
Some of them can bolt. Superdelegates have to be realistic. Who can they not afford to lose forever? The middle class or the Black Caucus?
The polls and the big state trophies will demonstrate that Hillary will win the General Election big. She has brought out huge vote totals where Dems have to win.
And most pundits are now writing that Obama is not tough, not fast on his feet, can't adjust under attack and has yet to talk details in any convincing manner. The Media dopes are still holding him up, or he would wilt under the bright lights. Hillary will finish him off in the next three months.
She needs $40-50 million more and no screwups by her top team (those idiots who Maggie Williams has not taped over their mouths yet).
I think Bill's people will be shaping some things through Maggie and the Clinton's don't lose. We have all the terrain right for us and the weapons to get this done.
Believe. YES WE WILL
Jayling
03-06-2008, 10:59 PM
To follow up on SantaCruz's post -- those 'new' numbers from ABC & NBC still aren't quite up to date. I spent hours last night & today getting the latest numbers, using the Secretary of State's websites. (more ballots are still being counted from previous elections so the numbers can change daily).
Total Popular Votes (with FL & MI):
Clinton - 13,629,380
Obama - 13,605,622
Clinton has 23,758 more popular votes.
-----
Total Popular Votes (disenfranchising FL & MI):
Clinton - 12,430,085
Obama - 13,029,408
Obama has 599,323 more popular votes by snubbing his nose at FL & MI
-----
Please be wary of the fuzzy & selective math the mainstream media spouts. A better independent source of Delegate counts is http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/tally.phtml. Tony's popular vote totals aren't all up to date, but his Delegate count is much closer to reality. Best thing is -- he shows the math!
:)
Jayling
thank your for al the responses.
what does worry me is that in past elections, the popular vote was discounted. gw bush lost by the popular vote, yet he won. i read so many spins on the numbers,,,, i get lost in it all.
also, it was not my intention "to spread obama propaganda" here. i was simply quoting a governor who has a say in it all.
They are being led by a terrific actor.
Actually, his acting is POOR because he is very TRANSPARENT!
I can see straight through that facade...
Oblahma* is the one who is tearing this Party ( and country) apart on racial and gender lines, not Hillary.
100% TRUE STATEMENT
Ah, the IRONY!
OBAMA = KING OF DIVISION & DISUNITY!
Ah, the IRONY!
thank your for al the responses.
what does worry me is that in past elections, the popular vote was discounted. gw bush lost by the popular vote, yet he won. i read so many spins on the numbers,,,, i get lost in it all.
also, it was not my intention "to spread obama propaganda" here. i was simply quoting a governor who has a say in it all.
Oh, you misunderstood - not saying YOU were spinning progaganda. We are saying OBAMA and his surrogates (eg Wisconsin governor) are spreading propaganda! You merely reported! And thank you for telling us about their BAD behavior! :cool:
Please be wary of the fuzzy & selective math the mainstream media spouts. A better independent source of Delegate counts is http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/tally.phtml. Tony's popular vote totals aren't all up to date, but his Delegate count is much closer to reality. Best thing is -- he shows the math!
:)
Jayling
I would follow this advice people. MSM can't be trusted these days, especially CNN who have basically got Obama on the payroll.
BloodDAnna
03-06-2008, 11:20 PM
If Hillary Clinton is the type of person I think she is then she will fight to get to the GE FOR us. If it were hopeless she wouldn't still be asking for donations and support from working people, that would be cruel and she has never struck me as a cruel person.
Two weeks ago people started calling for her to drop out and saying she would get crushed in the 4 state primaries and did she? No, its propoganda to make you jump ship and thats fine, everybody likes to feel like they are on a winning team. I for one know that it's not over till it's over.
bernie gagliano
03-06-2008, 11:59 PM
Rule #1: The Clintons never quit.
Rule #2: The Clinton's never lose the General Election.
Rule #3: YES WE WILL!
Brooke
03-07-2008, 12:01 AM
Clintons never say die!!!!!!
ProHiLL
03-07-2008, 12:47 AM
BO claims Hillary used scare tactics with the 3a.m. add but the real scare tactic being used is BO and his surrogates making all these claims that Hillary cannot win the delegates needed. It is merely a ploy to get voters to think he has it in the bag so they either don't vote when its their turn or they jump on board for him. It is the oldest trick in the dirty play book. Please do not buy into that perception. Its the same thing with polls. The bias MSM lists all these polls with BO in the lead so you as the voter will be disuaded from actually going out to vote for your candidate who is behind. POlls are bologna! How many times have you heard well since my candidate was so far behind or so far ahead I didn't think my vote would even matter so I didn't vote? Please Please vote your candidate. Don't let the media pick your candidate for you.
(but you can let us pick Her for you: vote Hillary) jk;)
no_more_bush
03-07-2008, 01:13 AM
ABC: Hillary Clinton has received 13,568,891 votes so far in primaries and caucuses while Sen. Obama has received 13,565,339.
NBC/MSNBC: Hillary Clinton has received 13,521,832 votes so far in primaries and caucuses while Sen. Obama has received 13,497,175.
In addition to the overall lead in votes, Hillary holds a significant lead in votes among Democrats. Hillary has received nearly 10.3 million votes among Democrats so far while Sen. Obama has received 9.2 million.
http://www.delegatehub.com/archive/?id=6399
This is very interesting, does it include Florida and Michigan?
Jayling
03-07-2008, 01:19 AM
This is very interesting, does it include Florida and Michigan?
Here ya go, something that's more accurate than anything the mainstream media feeds folks:
To follow up on SantaCruz's post -- those 'new' numbers from ABC & NBC still aren't quite up to date. I spent hours last night & today getting the latest numbers, using the Secretary of State's websites. (more ballots are still being counted from previous elections so the numbers can change daily).
Total Popular Votes (with FL & MI):
Clinton - 13,629,380
Obama - 13,605,622
Clinton has 23,758 more popular votes.
-----
Total Popular Votes (disenfranchising FL & MI):
Clinton - 12,430,085
Obama - 13,029,408
Obama has 599,323 more popular votes by snubbing his nose at FL & MI
-----
Please be wary of the fuzzy & selective math the mainstream media spouts. A better independent source of Delegate counts is http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/tally.phtml. Tony's popular vote totals aren't all up to date, but his Delegate count is much closer to reality. Best thing is -- he shows the math!
:)
Jayling
BO claims Hillary used scare tactics with the 3a.m. add but the real scare tactic being used is BO and his surrogates making all these claims that Hillary cannot win the delegates needed. It is merely a ploy to get voters to think he has it in the bag so they either don't vote when its their turn or they jump on board for him. It is the oldest trick in the dirty play book. Please do not buy into that perception. Its the same thing with polls. The bias MSM lists all these polls with BO in the lead so you as the voter will be disuaded from actually going out to vote for your candidate who is behind. POlls are bologna! How many times have you heard well since my candidate was so far behind or so far ahead I didn't think my vote would even matter so I didn't vote? Please Please vote your candidate. Don't let the media pick your candidate for you.
(but you can let us pick Her for you: vote Hillary) jk;)
CORRECT.
There is one truly divisive candidate in this nomination race and it's Obama.
no_more_bush
03-07-2008, 01:21 AM
If Clinton is in fact winning the popular vote, just not the pledged delegates, how on earth can people say the voters are being dismissed? The super delegates would in fact be voting the will of the people. :eek:
The fact that the Obama camp/media are trying to make a Clinton win either undemocratic or impossible is just not right. I heard there was a full page ad taken out in the LA Times(or some other paper) that stressed this point.:mad:
If Clinton is in fact winning the popular vote, just not the pledged delegates, how on earth can people say the voters are being dismissed? The super delegates would in fact be voting the will of the people. :eek:
The fact that the Obama camp/media are trying to make a Clinton win either undemocratic or impossible is just not right. I heard there was a full page ad taken out in the LA Times(or some other paper) that stressed this point.:mad:
It's called propaganda and lies. The Obama campaign is masterful at both.
no_more_bush
03-07-2008, 01:30 AM
Here ya go, something that's more accurate than anything the mainstream media feeds folks:
To follow up on SantaCruz's post -- those 'new' numbers from ABC & NBC still aren't quite up to date. I spent hours last night & today getting the latest numbers, using the Secretary of State's websites. (more ballots are still being counted from previous elections so the numbers can change daily).
Total Popular Votes (with FL & MI):
Clinton - 13,629,380
Obama - 13,605,622
Clinton has 23,758 more popular votes.
-----
Total Popular Votes (disenfranchising FL & MI):
Clinton - 12,430,085
Obama - 13,029,408
Obama has 599,323 more popular votes by snubbing his nose at FL & MI
-----
Please be wary of the fuzzy & selective math the mainstream media spouts. A better independent source of Delegate counts is http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/tally.phtml. Tony's popular vote totals aren't all up to date, but his Delegate count is much closer to reality. Best thing is -- he shows the math!
:)
Jayling
Oh thanks, I just saw this.
I really hope she catches up with the popular vote, and I think its definitely possible if Florida and Michigan are redone.
Oh thanks, I just saw this.
I really hope she catches up with the popular vote, and I think its definitely possible if Florida and Michigan are redone.
She's ahead in the popular vote when FL and MI are counted. They should not have to be redone. She won them fair and square!
no_more_bush
03-07-2008, 01:37 AM
It's called propaganda and lies. The Obama campaign is masterful at both.
I know what you mean. I was fairly neutral at the beginning of this race, but as it grew closer I chose my side. What really started to bother me was the fact that the media pores over ever statement or notion by Hillary; however, Obama not only gets away with his spin tactics - the media helps him reiterate it.
I wish we had a smilie that rolled its eyes...
Viktoriya
03-07-2008, 01:39 AM
Hillary has a great case: she is winning States and votes that will help Democrats to win general election. General elections are not caucus.
I also agree that she is fighter. Obama is not (not sure if he is not fighter by nature or he used to take no-risk roads).
I believe in my heart that Hillary will be our next president.
BloodDAnna
03-07-2008, 01:40 AM
Just remember during AL Gore's run it came down to individual votes in Florida...same thing happened in the last governors race in washingotn state so yeah, stay strong and vote for the candidate you think is best.
no_more_bush
03-07-2008, 01:44 AM
She's ahead in the popular vote when FL and MI are counted. They should not have to be redone. She won them fair and square!
I agree in principle with you on Florida, but honestly, I don't see anyway the DNC will agree to seat Michigan's delegates.
I think realistically they will have to redo them both in order to satisfy the DNC as well as the candidates. What I don't want to happen is for them to split both the states delegates evenly(50/50), I've heard this idea thrown around. This will only make Obama's numbers appear closer to the 2025.
What I don't want to happen is for them to split both the states delegates evenly(50/50), I've heard this idea thrown around. This will only make Obama's numbers appear closer to the 2025.
Agreed, that would be a pointless and extremely unfair act! In Florida there was a level playing field. Each candidate was on the ballot and no-one could campaign. Hillary won FL fair and square. And Obama spent $1 Million advertizing there...
TeejDee
03-07-2008, 01:58 AM
I heard on the news that Obama was having a day off today. I dont think Hillary has had many days off during this campaign or for that matter Bill and Chelsea either.
I was so impressed with Hillary on the 3rd March. She was at the Jeep plant here in Toledo at 5am then on to UT for a rally at 9.30, then on to Texas for the Town Hall Meeting, then on the Jon Stuart show at 11.30pm. She looked as fresh as ever and ready for more. Her work ethic is incredible.
I heard also today that President Bush has logged more vacation time than any other President....
I want a President who has work ethics like Hillary......
Agreed, that would be a pointless and extremely unfair act! In Florida there was a level playing field. Each candidate was on the ballot and no-one could campaign. Hillary won FL fair and square. And Obama spent $1 Million advertizing there...
yes! and people outside florida claim we are making that up. the ads were on. i saw them. others saw them. and the ob people are screaming that "people didn't vote because it wouldn't count". we did vote because anyone with any sense could see that down the line, something would happen.
i want our delegates seated. they have already been chosen. i can't speak about michigan, but didn't ob have his name removed from the ballot? if he himself removed it, that was his choice, and his tough luck, as far as i am concerned.
thanks murray for explaining!
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